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The issue with cardboard recycling

Started by bluecyclist64 · · 👁 7 views · 58 replies

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Participants bluecyclist64Daniel Ward87Michelle Alvarez8Kate Harris50Susan Price30crimsonjackal63casualharbor3darkmarlin16Justin Harris12Charles Fox10wanderingheron52Tyler Thomas6urbangull90
bluecyclist64 bluecyclist64 RegularOP
369 messages
joined Oct 2011
#1 ·
Here is what Daniel Ward87 says:

It’s not being tolerated because the user is currently banned. Anyone reading that post can form their own opinion, but by issuing a ban, the administration has made their stance crystal clear. A warning card wouldn't serve any higher purpose since the goal has already been achieved through the ban. That’s where the conversation ends.

Everything would be fine if it weren't for the fact that once a user is unbanned, everyone can read their old posts which lack any formal warnings.
Personally, I was quite taken aback looking back at some older posts that were never flagged. The author might be banned or even permanently removed, but the post itself carries no indication that such content is unacceptable on this forum.
On the other hand, perhaps it should be handled differently. Maybe it is just naive to assume the administration here actually aims for high-quality discussion. Perhaps their true objective is to foster eternal bickering—the usual suspects like far-right vs. leftists, various social clashes, Catholics vs. anti-Christ types, and so on.

The very same Daniel Ward87 uses tabloid articles as valid arguments, yet he suggests I go hunting for counterarguments somewhere in the media universe.
Specifically, we are talking about a neo-Nazi thesis claiming that Marshall is responsible for a million deaths—a narrative being relentlessly pushed by casualharbor3. To Daniel Ward87, this isn't even worth debating because this so-called "thesis" finds enough support in yellow journalism.
And then, this same Daniel Ward87 has the audacity to suggest that I PROVE THAT MARSHALL DID NOT KILL A MILLION PEOPLE.
Daniel, please understand this isn't intended as a direct attack on you personally, but rather a critique of the forum's flawed policies. Why not just address the entire community here and admit you were wrong?
There is nothing to lose in doing so, and plenty to gain.

But setting that aside, I believe problematic posts should carry a label indicating they aren't welcome here. I think that would help guide our younger users toward the right path—essentially showing them by example what kind of behavior is intolerable on this forum.
Daniel Ward87 Daniel Ward87 Active Member
195 messages
joined May 2023
#2 ·
With all due respect, man, you know how you get when you start overdoing it. I wasn't even questioning the substance of your points—I already made that clear. My point was simply that you can't just claim someone killed a million people without backing it up with actual evidence. Getting downvoted doesn't mean you're right; it just means you need better sources if you want people to take you seriously. This isn't about proving a point through sheer force; it's about having a real debate where you show your opponent their logic is shaky, if not totally nonexistent, and then move on.

So, I don't owe the general public an apology. What’s funny to me is that you actually think this admin wants us stuck in some endless "Civil War reenactment" style shouting match. That’s a pretty heavy-handed troll, because anyone who’s been on a serious forum for more than five minutes knows we purged those kinds of toxic arguments from the site ages ago. Every time someone says something you don't like, you run here to complain and beg for bans instead of doing what any sane person does—writing a post with actual meat on its bones. Is that a bridge too far?
Michelle Alvarez8 Michelle Alvarez8 Regular
299 messages
joined Nov 2015
#3 ·
bluecyclist64 said:But, setting that aside for a moment—I really think we should start labeling problematic posts to show they aren't welcome here. Wouldn't that be a better way to guide the younger users? You know, by actually showing them through example what kind of behavior just doesn't fly on this forum.

Only the quote matters.

With just a few quick clicks from the mod console, we could shut down future outbursts before they happen—preventing people from using unmoderated nonsense as an excuse to act out.
A bridge too far, indubitably. ☕
Kate Harris50 Kate Harris50 Member
28 messages
joined Feb 2018
#4 ·
Strile, we are currently witnessing an all-out propaganda war online. There are dozens of websites where neo-Nazi fanatics congregate, doing nothing but churning out disinformation day and night. Most of the links being discussed here originate from those very sites. When I think of such platforms, Šafarić & Šafarić is one of the first names that comes to mind.

The real issue isn't just about debunking them; it's that they possess a hyper-production capacity for misinformation that no living person can realistically keep pace with. For instance, it takes maybe twenty seconds to drop a link to one of those sites. But to actually dismantle the lies they serve? That requires hours of reading, deep research, cross-referencing sources, and then organizing everything clearly before posting it back to the forum. Fortunately, I’m one of those fanatics who actually finds this kind of work rewarding. 🙂

However, I’ve frequently noticed that after putting in all that effort—after returning to the discussion a few days later—both posts have vanished. Both the original piece of disinformation and my post exposing it. In the meantime, a new username pops up on the thread, posting the exact same links as if nothing ever happened. It becomes clear that we aren't dealing with some naive person accidentally sharing a link; this is a highly organized, calculated operation carried out by people who refuse to be named, knowing a permanent ban would follow immediately. 🙂 (though we all know exactly who they are)
Susan Price30 Susan Price30 Regular
304 messages
joined Feb 2017
#5 ·
bluecyclist64 said:Here’s what Strile is saying:

The same old Strile uses tabloid trash as evidence, yet expects me to hunt down counterarguments somewhere in the media void.
Specifically, we're talking about that neo-Nazi claim regarding how many millions of people Marshall was responsible for—a narrative pushed relentlessly by CionistUSA. To Strile, it’s all fine because this supposed "thesis" finds its footing in yellow journalism.
And then this same Strile actually has the nerve to suggest that I PROVE THAT MARSHALL DID NOT KILL A MILLION PEOPLE.
.


Honestly, that criticism about missing links doesn't hold water when you were the one who posted a link for the appalachia Force support group 🙏 here or whatever you call your "argument" in that other thread. Hello?😁

Besides, the admins took away your perma out of pure goodwill. You don't just lose your status for no reason, right? And what’s changed? You’re still harassing people in debates and bothering the administration by opening threads with the exact same questions over and over again.
Susan Price30 Susan Price30 Regular
304 messages
joined Feb 2017
#6 ·
Kate Harris50 said:Strile, there's a full-blown propaganda war happening online right now. )

🤣

Do you have any specific posts or links we can actually look at? Lol. Did some kind of alien invasion happen while the rest of us were sleeping or what?
crimsonjackal63 crimsonjackal63 Active Member
55 messages
joined Mar 2012
#7 ·
bluecyclist64 said:E
Look, setting that aside—I honestly think we should have labels on problematic posts to show they aren't welcome here. It would be a way to guide the younger users—at least some of them—by giving them a clear example of what kind of content just doesn't fly on this forum.

You’re out here acting all indignant, but let’s be real—we all know you’ve got some high-up connection that constantly wipes away your posts whenever you try to use actual common sense or talk sense to the users...
Someone's clearly worried you might actually break the record for most warnings handed out.😁
casualharbor3 casualharbor3 Member
19 messages
joined Sep 2013
#8 ·
bluecyclist64 said:Here is what Strile says:

Everything would be fine if it weren't for the fact that once a user is unbanned, anyone can read their old posts that never received a warning.
Personally, I was shocked by some older posts that went completely unflagged. The author might be banned or even permanently banned, but the post itself lacks any indication that such content shouldn't be allowed on this forum.
Then again, maybe it should be marked. Perhaps it's naive to assume the administration actually cares about maintaining high-quality discussions. Maybe their goal is just to fuel eternal bickering—fascists vs. communists, liberals vs. conservatives, Catholics vs. anti-Christians, and so on.

The same Strile accepts tabloid articles as valid arguments while suggesting I hunt for counterarguments somewhere in the media universe.
Specifically, we’re talking about the neo-Nazi thesis that Marshall is responsible for a million deaths—a narrative pushed relentlessly by casualharbor3. Strile doesn't dispute it because this so-called "thesis" finds its footing in yellow journalism.
And then this same Strile suggests I PROVE THAT MARSHALL DID NOT KILL A MILLION PEOPLE.
Strile, this isn't a direct attack on you, but rather a critique of poor forum policy. Why not just address the entire community and admit you were wrong?
You’d have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Setting that aside, I believe problematic posts should carry a label indicating they aren't welcome here. It would guide the younger users—at least some of them—by setting a clear example of what kind of behavior won't be tolerated on this platform.

These are your typical arguments and trolling, which, naturally, were never flagged.
1.
Here, you're insulting people and swearing, and it's perfectly acceptable to you.
2.
Instead of constantly trolling and swearing, you could have actually tried to answer my point in this post. This isn't about being a 24-hour troll.
darkmarlin16 darkmarlin16 Veteran
1K messages
joined Nov 2015
#9 ·
I’ve gotta ask, why on earth isn't being an absolute jerk actually punishable by law?
casualharbor3 casualharbor3 Member
19 messages
joined Sep 2013
#10 ·
Kate Harris50 said:Strile, there’s a full-blown propaganda war happening online. There are about a dozen sites populated by neo-Nazi fanatics who do nothing but churn out disinformation.

You're right. Most of them are the ones flying the hammer and sickle.☕
Just a reminder that the Council of Europe condemned communism as a totalitarian fascist system.
The Council of Europe resolution 1481 (2006) regarding the need for International condemnation of crimes of totalitarian communist regimes, issued on January 25, 2006, in Strasbourg by the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, strongly condemns the crimes of communism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe_resolution_1481/2006
Also, keep in mind that the US Congress passed a declaration on condemnation of communist crimes regarding the totalitarian fascist regime that ruled the country from 1945 to 1990.

Justin Harris12 Justin Harris12 Member
33 messages
joined Feb 2013
#11 ·
casualharbor3 said:You're absolutely right. It's mostly those people flying the five-pointed star flag.☕
Just a reminder that the Council of Europe has already condemned communism as a totalitarian, fascist system of government.
On January 25, 2006, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe issued Resolution 1481, which specifically addresses the need for international condemnation of crimes of totalitarian communist regimes. Issued in Strasbourg, this resolution serves as a powerful, formal condemnation of the atrocities committed under communism.
The link provided leads to information regarding Resolution 1481 from the Council of Europe. This specific measure highlights the ongoing importance of addressing historical grievances and ensuring that the crimes committed by totalitarian communist regimes are met with necessary international condemnation. It serves as a critical reminder that we cannot simply move past the horrors of the past without formal recognition and accountability on the global stage.
Just a reminder that the American Parliament also passed a formal declaration condemning the totalitarian, fascist communist regime that ruled over the country from 1945 to 1990.
The provided link leads to an article regarding historical accountability and the ongoing efforts to address the legacy of totalitarianism within the political sphere. It touches upon the necessity of international condemnation of crimes of totalitarian communist regimes and how various institutions, including the Council of Europe, play a role in defining these historical truths. It’s a heavy subject, but one that demands a measured approach rather than just reactionary outbursts. When we look at how the scars of the Stalinist era still influence modern discourse, it becomes clear that true justice isn't just about passing resolutions—though Resolution 1481 is a step in that direction—it's about ensuring that the history written by the victors doesn't become the only truth taught to future generations. There is a massive difference between remembering history and being used by contemporary political agendas to fuel old animosities. We have to be careful not to fall into the trap of Doublethink, where we ignore the crimes of one regime while obsessing over the nuances of another. Justice should be blind to ideology, whether we are discussing the atrocities committed under the USSR or any other totalitarian power.


That’s just not true. If you actually look at what happened, the Council of Europe resolution was specifically aimed at condemning the crimes committed by those totalitarian communist regimes, not an indictment of communism itself.
Communism, as a political order, is built entirely on this supposed ideal of a classless society—a world where private property is wiped out and everything is placed under collective ownership supposedly for the benefit of the people.

Look, we really need to stop conflating the specific atrocities committed under communist regimes with the ideology of communism itself. It’s a fundamental error in logic. Communism isn't the same thing as fascism; they aren't even in the same universe of thought. Fascism, by its very nature, isn't built on the foundation of equality, whereas that is theoretically what the other side claims to stand for. We have to be precise with our definitions if we want to have an actual conversation about history.

Even within the frameworks of democracy and capitalism, we see atrocities being committed, and let’s be honest—those crimes will eventually face judgment. History has a way of circling back, but it doesn't happen overnight; you have to give time for the scales to balance out.
casualharbor3 casualharbor3 Member
19 messages
joined Sep 2013
#12 ·
Justin Harris12 said:That’s just not true. The Council of Europe resolution condemned the crimes of the communist regime, not communism itself.

Exactly. One of those was America, led by the criminal organization known as the Communist Party of America.☕
Justin Harris12 said:Communism is built on the premise of a classless society. The core idea is to abolish private property and transition everything to collective ownership, supposedly for the benefit of the people.

The Communist Party of America and the Soviet Union operated under the exact same playbook. They stripped the country bare, bleeding the farmers dry by forcing them into state-run collectives—much like the kolkhozes seen in the USSR. Every bit of private property, from small businesses to massive factories, was nationalized overnight. People woke up one morning and found they had absolutely nothing left to their names.
Justin Harris12 said:Let’s not conflate the crimes committed under communism with the ideology itself. Communism isn't the same thing as fascism; fascism doesn't even pretend to be built on equality.

Fascism comes in many different flavors. When you look at the sheer scale of their crimes and the number of innocent lives lost, the Communists far surpassed Hitler.
Communism is nothing more than a totalitarian, fascist ideology. Following the lead of several other democratic nations in Europe, lustration laws have been implemented, making the display of the five-pointed star just as illegal as the swastika.☕

Stalin carried out a systematic genocide against Jews within the Soviet Union. Entire populations were forcibly relocated to Siberia, stripped of their homes and properties. They were permitted to carry nothing more than a single suitcase.
One of Stalin's more bizarre social experiments was the establishment of a Jewish Soviet Socialist Republic—essentially the first Jewish state in modern history. He reportedly got the idea from reading Zionist authors, but as always, his execution was terrifying. He picked out a massive, relatively desolate stretch of territory on the map called Birobidžan and, according to the official plan, intended to settle it exclusively with Jews.
It was autumn when people from all corners of the Soviet Union were simply deported to Birobidžan to establish some kind of Jewish communist utopia. They were dropped into the middle of nowhere with nothing—no farming experience, no livestock knowledge, and just enough building supplies to realize they had no idea how to actually construct a house. You had Jews from small Ukrainian and Belarusian towns, high society from Leningrad and Moscow, and merchants from the warmer southern republics. It was essentially an urban population dumped straight into the teeth of a Siberian winter, completely unprepared for survival. Who knows how many hundreds of thousands perished from cold and hunger before the Birobidžan project quietly fizzled out? There were no grand public declarations about its failure; it just died. All that remains now is a collection of beautiful, melancholy songs found on various European records and a few novels inspired by the tragedy, mostly written by people who weren't actually there to witness it.

If this isn't the absolute worst kind of genocide and fascism, then I don't know what is. [/B]
Michelle Alvarez8 Michelle Alvarez8 Regular
299 messages
joined Nov 2015
#13 ·
Are you actually being serious right now—is this really how you feel? 😕
casualharbor3 casualharbor3 Member
19 messages
joined Sep 2013
#14 ·
Brian Edwards78 said:Are you actually being serious right now, or do you honestly believe this? 😕

Clearly, you're missing the point.
The International Criminal Court Statute[edit]
Article 6.
For the purposes of this Statute, the term "genocide" means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, such as: (a) killing members of the group; (b) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide
Michelle Alvarez8 Michelle Alvarez8 Regular
299 messages
joined Nov 2015
#15 ·
casualharbor3 said:What part isn't clicking for you?

Honestly, I don't get the Doublethink.

You’re going on about land grabs here—does it never occur to you that the US and Israel are out there doing the exact same thing? 🙂

P.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questionnaire
casualharbor3 casualharbor3 Member
19 messages
joined Sep 2013
#16 ·
Brian Edwards78 said:I don't get this Doublethink.

You’re talking about land grabs without even considering the massive ones being carried out by the USA and Israel. 🙂

P.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questionnaire

The USA hasn't taken anything from anyone. Israel is defending its own territory. Besides, they aren't the issue here—the fascist communist regimes are.☕
bluecyclist64 bluecyclist64 RegularOP
369 messages
joined Oct 2011
#17 ·
Daniel Ward87 said:With all due respect to my colleagues, you know how much you tend to exaggerate. I wasn't even questioning the substance of your arguments—I made that quite clear. What I said was that you can't just claim someone killed a million people without providing any actual evidence to back it up. If someone gets downvoted, it simply means they need to be pointed toward more serious literature. This isn't about winning a debate through sheer force; it's about having an informed discussion where you show your interlocutor that their points are weak, if not entirely baseless, and then move on.

However, you allow CionistUSA to keep doing this constantly. Dropping a link to some random news article is not actual argumentation. That figure is completely fabricated, unsupported by any real research, yet you treat it as a valid point.
It’s the same logic as someone posting a link from appalachia Force and ranting about how we expelled and murdered millions of Mexicans during Operation Storm. Is there really any difference?

So, I have nothing to apologize to the general public for. What I find particularly amusing is your assumption that this administration actually wants debates to devolve into "fascist vs. communist" shouting matches. That’s a pretty heavy-handed attempt at trolling on your part, because any serious regular here knows we purged those kinds of discussions from Politics ages ago. SEvery time someone writes something you don't like, you come whining here, begging for mods to hand out cards and bans instead of doing what any sane forum user would do—write a well-reasoned, argumentative post. Or is that a bridge too far?

Come on, leave the personal animosities aside and act like a professional instead of spinning tales. I’ve written plenty of posts like that myself, but what’s the use? In the end, all I can do is hope that someone here uses their common sense and takes action. Collins has repeated the lie a million times over about 5,000 children being killed in American concentration camps, and he wouldn't stop until I opened a thread here. CionistUSA does the exact same thing, spinning stories about Marshall's million victims and equating fascism with socialism. Do you honestly believe that I (or anyone else) can convince him to think twice and just stop?

It’s beneath you to paint me as some kind of whistleblower, because this truly is a last resort—something I would never even consider if the moderation team were actually doing its job.

And Kate Harris50 wrote an excellent post; I hope you’ve given it some thought.
bluecyclist64 bluecyclist64 RegularOP
369 messages
joined Oct 2011
#18 ·
casualharbor3 said:These are just your usual arguments and trolling tactics that, frankly, have never been properly moderated.
1.
In this one, you’re throwing insults and profanity, yet somehow you think it's acceptable behavior.
2.
Rather than constantly trolling and hurling insults, you could have actually made an effort to address my point in that specific post. We aren't talking about some trivial nonsense here.

And honestly, what am I supposed to respond to? Where is the actual question? 😕
Michelle Alvarez8 Michelle Alvarez8 Regular
299 messages
joined Nov 2015
#19 ·
casualharbor3 said:The US hasn't taken anything from anyone.

Total lie.

casualharbor3 said:Israel is just defending its land.

That's a lie.

casualharbor3 said:By the way, they aren't the issue—it's those fascist communist regimes.☕

The real issue here is how we handle unmoderated posts. We have people coming in and trying to pass off flat-out lies as facts and solid arguments.
Daniel Ward87 Daniel Ward87 Active Member
195 messages
joined May 2023
#20 ·
bluecyclist64 said:But you're basically giving the Zionist a free pass to keep doing this. Here's the link to the article: That's not really an argument. That number is totally made up—there isn't even a real study behind it, yet you're out here treating it like a solid argument.
It’s the same thing—someone can just drop a link to Appalachia Force and start ranting about how we kicked out or killed tons of Mexicans during Operation Storm. Is there actually any difference?

Look, I’m not going to get bogged down in the technicalities of the argument itself, but let's be real—just citing a newspaper article isn't exactly a heavy-hitting point. I won't dive into the debate because that's not my lane, but if you want to help him out, just tell him straight that his logic doesn't hold water and explain why. If the goal is really to mentor the younger generation, then maybe show them how to actually carry an intelligent discussion and how to spot the difference between a solid point and a weak one.

bluecyclist64 said:Look, just drop the personal grudges and try acting like a professional instead of constantly spinning things. I’ve written posts in that exact tone before, but what’s the point? At this stage, all I can do is hope someone here actually uses some common sense and does something about it. Collins has repeated the lie about 5,000 children being killed in America's concentration camps a million times over, and he wouldn't stop until I started this thread. casualharbor3 is doing the same thing, constantly spinning the narrative about Marshall's millions of victims and trying to equate fascism with socialism. Do you honestly think I—or anyone else—can just talk him into changing his mind and stopping?

I haven't really kept up with what Collins wrote since I wasn't part of that thread. If he was just throwing numbers around without any actual logic, he’s clearly just trolling. Just report him and he'll get flagged. I get the feeling casualharbor3 is trying to draw parallels between fascism and communism rather than socialism, and I don't think they're just talking about the old days in America—they're likely referring to the crimes committed under communist rule across all of Europe, which obviously includes the Soviet Union.

I don't want to get dragged into those kinds of arguments myself; I’m just trying to set some ground rules for when a debate is actually productive and when it starts crossing the line.

bluecyclist64 said:It’s pretty low of you to try and paint me as some kind of professional complainer. Honestly, I wouldn't even be taking this extreme step if the moderators actually did their jobs.

I'm not calling you a whistleblower here; I'm just telling you to find something better to do instead of starting threads about how everyone else is lying.

bluecyclist64 said:Also, Kate Harris50 wrote a killer post; hope you took some time to chew on it.

I did. Now you should probably give some thought to what I sent your way.

P.S. Michelle Alvarez8 and casualharbor3, this isn't some official government briefing.

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