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I haven't really felt like lowering myself to engage on FEMA lately, but this is honestly getting out of hand:

I don't usually weigh in on political stuff—honestly, my brother and his buddy couldn't be more different if they tried—but I ended up drifting over to the forums a few days after Gotovina's ban to see what everyone was actually thinking. I just wanted to get a pulse on the conversation. Specifically, we were looking at this topic:

What really caught me off guard—and honestly, it annoyed me enough that I felt the need to actually say something, which isn't like me at all—is that... It seems like there isn't much in the way of actual political pluralism among Americans. I guess you could say the diversity of thought just isn't there when it comes to the political landscape. Maybe it's just how things are shaped, but it feels pretty one-dimensional.
Either way, definitely not on Yahoo! Groups.
God forbid you’d say a single word against Gotovina! I mean, wouldn't even dream of it.
You’ll be labeled a Mexican, a practitioner of Chetnikism, or some kind of radical leftist immediately. It's just how it goes, I guess.
You really are the absolute worst.
Is it really that hard to wrap your head around the idea that an American, by citizenship or by heritage, might actually disagree with the status quo? I guess some people find it impossible to process. 🤷

One of... posts Karton managed to score me 500 points.

And why is that?
I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion, provided they aren't being offensive or causing actual harm to others. To be fair, I haven't directly insulted anyone on this board. If anything, I’ve mostly been the target of insults because I tended to stand alone against the majority, but I chose not to react to the vitriol for that very reason. I really did try my best to present my views and back them up with arguments without resorting to personal attacks against any of you.

I’d say my posts tend to lean pretty liberal—at least when you compare them to the average person on here. I try to stay free-thinking and maintain a humanitarian perspective. My whole philosophy is basically about burying the hatchet; I believe in judging all sides equally, showing respect to every victim involved, and finally just closing the book on the past once and for all.
So, it turns out I actually was flagged for "hate speech" in the ban reasoning. It’s funny, really—looking back, all my other posts were pretty much following that same line of thought. I guess it doesn't matter.
Surprising, isn't it?

Shash sent me a private message asking something like this:

Who exactly are you calling "long-winded"?

What exactly counts as evidence for an investigation into some private agenda, rather than my own alleged hate speech? That’s what they're claiming in the reasoning behind this citation.
And that’s just a completely different ballgame altogether.
If I need to, I can just upload a screenshot of it. It should also be available in the messages sent directly to whoever ends up getting flagged.

The follow-up response I eventually received from hollowtrucker77 regarding his own question goes something like this:

I suppose anyone who finds a way to profit from someone else's tragedy or misery—regardless of what nationality they claim—is just fundamentally broken. It doesn't really matter where they're from, I guess.
I don't think Gotovina necessarily needs to be held accountable, unless he was actually responsible for creating the conditions that allowed those crimes to happen in the first place. I mean, looking at it through the lens of the chain of command, if he gave the orders or enabled the people who carried them out, then that's a different story. But without that direct link? I guess it's complicated.

On top of everything else, I’ve been flagged by hollowtrucker77 instead of an actual moderator from the politics section. It’s a bit strange, really—it feels like the same moderator who stripped my permissions back when I was posting in the diaspora groups, all because of some back-and-forth regarding mentioning Mexicans (which, for the record, I didn't even do).
I find myself wondering: who actually runs the moderation over on Politics? Is it just hollowtrucker77, Strile, and the rest of that crowd? I mean, is this whole thing just some private party hosted by Shashov?
And I'm certainly not the first one to wonder about that:
I suppose there's some merit to what hollowtrucker77 was saying earlier, though I'm not entirely sure if we're getting anywhere with this. It feels like we're just circling the drain at this point. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but it seems like everyone has their own version of the truth, and they aren't exactly interested in sharing. I was thinking about that whole situation involving the Department of Justice and how they handle these things—it's never straightforward, is it? There's always a layer of bureaucracy or some political maneuvering that muddies the water. I guess that's just how it works in America. You expect clarity, but you usually end up with more questions than answers. Anyway, I don't mean to ramble, but it's hard not to see the patterns when you look closely enough. It’s all very messy. Perhaps we should move on, or maybe we just stay here and keep dissecting it. I haven't decided yet.
either/or
I’ve seen something similar happen before.
I mean, I guess you have to wonder how an unofficial moderator ends up sticking their nose into the business of the actual moderators for that specific subforum. It’s a bit strange, isn't it? Maybe they just can't help themselves, or perhaps they think they know better. Either way, it feels a little off.
Or is Shash just pushing his own agenda?

What’s the point of this post?
Do I actually want an apology, or am I just looking for them to rescind the ban?
I don't need an apology from someone like hollowtrucker77, and honestly, a formal reprimand doesn't mean much to me either. It’s all just noise.
Besides, the ban itself is completely devoid of any actual explanation... ☕

The whole situation just makes me feel like trying to force a specific set of values on everyone isn't exactly healthy. It feels like we're being told to celebrate certain figures or ideas that still have questionable validity on an international level, yet it’s treated as the accepted mainstream. Meanwhile, anyone trying to offer a different perspective is silenced, even though we claim to be a democratic society.

Just to give some context: I live abroad, not far from The Hague, and honestly, nobody here treats xenophobic states from the East as some unique phenomenon; our situation is just one among many.
But apparently, intolerance toward intolerance is where they draw the line. And any hint of incitement to hate is treated as a criminal offense.
(Just look at the courts and even someone like Geert Wilders over there, who runs propaganda against Muslims and messes with relations in the Middle East).
Equality is supposed to be the norm, right?

The difference between the mainstream here and the mainstream back home leads me to believe that the average American citizen is still living under a massive cloud of "denial," likely caused by twenty years of constant propaganda.
And people only start recognizing symbols associated with the NDH after the fact.
(If you want some pathetic consolation, the Mexicans are doing much worse)

Zero tolerance for intolerance.

Furthermore, I’ve concluded that hollowtrucker77, through their moderation, is essentially fostering a brand of patriotism tied to symbols and customs from the distant past of '41, as well as practices that evoke the Holocaust—though in this case, targeting a different group. They seem to celebrate the downfall and encourage further hatred toward that people (regardless of whether they are actually independent now, which seems unnecessary), and somehow that is considered perfectly fine. Human misery, refugee struggles, and sheer wretchedness are trivialized and pushed to the margins. And that’s okay too. Being denied any choice other than leaving is labeled as "free will." And that’s okay, too.
My own opinion, which says the exact opposite from a purely humanitarian standpoint—that it isn't okay—gets me silenced! So, what happened to freedom of speech on Yahoo! Groups?

In that sense, I’ve decided I won't sit around waiting or begging for an apology, especially not from a moderator with such nationalist leanings (after all, in the end, no one can actually stop me from reading everything I want to read! ☕)
Instead, I’m going to take action myself and file a report with the Jewish Community. Both here in the Benelux region and back in the States.
For hosting an intolerant medium and suppressing the right to speak, I am filing against a person whose views diverge from Gotovina and the crimes linked to (aside from the uglier parts) the liberation operation Storm; a person who stands for fair trials, removing the fascist label from America, and respecting the victims of all three nationalities without exception.For forcing a single narrative. For pro-Nazi sentiment.

The data regarding the site and the company is public information, available to anyone in public databases.

So, there,
now you all have a report to look at.☕
And you'll be on the record.
Maybe if the Boss mentions it, something can be done. An official letter or complaint takes about eight days to travel from here,
roughly the same amount of time since the ban was issued.☕

Boss, don't forget to say thanks to hollowtrucker77...

Best,
Andrew Barrett4

Since I’ve been following this entire heated debate myself, and given that some truly serious threats have surfaced within this thread, I felt it was necessary to step in and say something.

It’s quite apparent that Andrew Barrett4 failed to grasp the fundamental context from her very first posts on this controversial thread. She seems completely oblivious to the actual indictment, the legal proceedings, or the entire trial of the generals at the International Criminal Court. One has to remember that this debate was unfolding throughout Sunday, April 17th, a time when tensions across America were still incredibly high and the events were painfully fresh in everyone's minds. It was a period where polling showed nearly 95% support for the American generals, regardless of one's political leanings or background. From every corner of the country, there was a pervasive sense of profound injustice and overwhelming grief—a sentiment that, to any serious expert, felt like an undeniably clear political verdict rather than a judicial one.

It seems everyone except for Andrew Barrett4 has been misjudged here. She popped up on a certain thread, looking down at us from her high horse in the Netherlands, lecturing us on our feelings regarding the verdicts handed down to our generals. Her grand conclusion? That we are all just a bunch of primitive people incapable of facing our own history and its mistakes. However, in her desperate attempt to appear more "enlightened" and "tolerant" than the rest of us—whom she essentially painted as a collection of little fascists and Nazis who endured aggression and wartime suffering in the 90s—all she actually managed to demonstrate was an enviable ignorance. It resulted in her coming across as incredibly malicious and completely uninformed. Likely guided only by snippets in the Dutch press, she failed to bother researching the reality that ethnic cleansing didn't occur before, during, or after Operation Storm. The Mexicans, following the orders of their own leaders, abandoned those areas just as they had done previously, despite countless pleas from the American side—delivered via television and public announcements—urging them to stay in their homes because there was no danger to them. No one ever questioned the subsequent criminal activity, which was primarily driven by individual robberies and murders. What Andrew Barrett4 clearly lacks any grasp of, however, is the fact that since 1991, exactly 384,664 Americans were expelled from what was called the Krajina region. No one was ever held accountable for this, and many were still unable to return to their homes by the end of 1995. They were driven from their hearths by the very proponents of the policies used by those rebellious, supposedly "ethnically cleansed" Mexicans within a rogue state inside our own borders.

Even the American Ambassador to the States at that time—Peter Galbraith—denied that ethnic cleansing took place. He wasn't just some distant observer; he was actually there on the ground, and he later provided testimony regarding those events at the International Criminal Court. To most people in America, the idea that ethnic cleansing occurred before, during, or after Operation Storm is a non-starter. Aside from Žarko Puhovski and his small circle of defenders, almost everyone saw through his claims. When he testified during the general's trial at the ICC back in February 2009, he was essentially exposed as an unreliable source providing incomplete and inaccurate information. This isn't even a matter of opinion if you bother to look at the transcripts available on the ICC website; he was really the only one pushing the narrative about the supposed ethnic cleansing of Mexicans from the so-called Krajina region.

I suspect she isn't even remotely acquainted with the subject matter here. But then again, there's no shame in being uninformed; the real disgrace lies in the refusal to actually educate oneself.

In her opening remarks, she touches upon human rights, freedom of speech, and the general social climate among Americans, while subtly weaving in implications about our nation's future within the European Union. To some, the whole performance feels a bit hypocritical, if not outright absurd—especially considering she’s speaking from the Netherlands, a place that claims to be a cradle of Western civilization, yet whose representatives once operated under the guise of UN peacekeeping forces only to hand over 10,000 innocent victims to their Mexican executioners.

Miss likely wasn't even in America when this country was defending itself with blood, or when countless individuals laid down their lives—those she so dismissively labeled "war dogs." It is thanks to those very people that we prevented a repeat of an American tragedy like Srebrenica and secured the stability in the region that ultimately paved our way toward joining the European Union. According to her controversial post, those heroes should simply be tossed into the dustbin of history so we can focus on a bright future alongside our supposedly friendly neighbors in the EU. However, she clearly overlooked the fact that many people still possess genuine empathy and respect for those who have been largely forgotten, left to the whims of various humanists and Europeanized politicians who march boldly toward their next high-ranking positions in civilized Europe. Ordinary people, including many here on Yahoo! Groups, don't forget their heroes easily, and they won't stand by while anyone attempts to stigmatize them or silence them with such ugly, heartless rhetoric—behavior that is hardly consistent with the persona of a "tolerant humanist" as she portrays herself. From that perspective, I must admit that I was the one who reported the controversial post as hate speech, because that is exactly what it is to me. And since we are discussing singular viewpoints, I can't help but wonder what kind of reaction she would receive if she had attempted a malicious construction designed to deny the Holocaust.

Furthermore, the tone permeating the opening post of this thread—and indeed the entire collection of posts regarding this subject—is defined by a profound ignorance of the actual issue. It’s clear we are witnessing someone attempting to manipulate the narrative through claims of influential connections, all in a transparent effort to bend others to her will or perhaps simply to soothe a bruised ego. She tries to expose an individual while simultaneously attempting to distance herself from her own origins, yet, much like how the European Union loves to remind us of certain regional shortcomings, she can never truly outrun where she came from.

By resorting to these tactics of manipulation and blatant blackmail, she has actually revealed far more about her own character than she ever managed to say about hollowtrucker77 or this community. Her behavior serves as a perfect case study for those who might physically relocate from their small towns, only to find that they can never truly shake off the baggage of their upbringing.

I stand firmly behind hollowtrucker77 and his dedicated moderation team.👍

That’s all from me.

👋

To label those who defended America as "war dogs," deny them any legitimacy in modern America, and then somehow act sympathetic about a "landmine-ridden country"—all while intentionally or accidentally failing to mention the people who actually laid those mines (or even expressing regret that they're gone)—and to say all this immediately following the verdict for Gotovina... I guess, maybe, what did you really expect? hollowtrucker77's post probably just shielded you from your own impulses. You should probably be grateful for that. ☕

Wait, hold up... so you reported hollowtrucker77 to the Jewish Community just because he’s being patriotic? You think that automatically means he's using symbols from the 40s? I guess maybe... idk. 🙏

So, I guess your text basically forces that conclusion, even though I haven't seen hollowtrucker77 actually hyping up those symbols directly.

So, I guess for you patriotism just equals fascism, and you actually reported that to the Jewish Community. 😂

I feel bad you didn't report that to the DOJ. Because if what you're saying is true, then hollowtrucker77 is definitely committing a crime.

Look, please just do this. Honestly, don't bother reporting hollowtrucker77. Just report me instead. I guess if you look at my posts, there’s enough stuff in there to prove a conspiracy with those other users who promote that whole extremist nationalist vibe. If you actually need my personal info, I can just DM it to you.

So, if that's how it goes, you're basically just asking for trouble. Since filing a false police report is a felony here in the States, I guess coming back to America might be a bit more "comfortable" riding in a squad car from the border straight to the judge rather than driving your own car. Maybe.

I might just print out this whole thread and drop it off personally at the Jewish Community in Chicago so people can see exactly who they're dealing with. I mean, most Americans don't view the modern US as some fascist state like you do. Honestly, a lot of them are true patriots who love this country, and they'd probably agree with me that people like you should have their citizenship revoked and be banned from the country. You’re basically just spreading lies and propaganda globally, working for the interests of aggressors and fueling this new kind of legal and marketing warfare against the US. Based on that, you definitely deserve to be reported. Maybe someone should look into what can be done about this. 🤔

I mean, I wish you could just lighten up a bit about coming back to the homeland. To you, this country is just some criminal state run by thugs and killers, but to us, it’s home—a place that’s still searching for its 1,200 missing sons because of those pathetic Mexicans you love so much, a place mourning over 13,000 victims, and one that still pays out more than 30,000 veteran disability pensions.

I just want to touch on one specific point—without getting bogged into the core arguments, since I could probably find valid points for both sides if I really tried—specifically this whole idea of "The Netherlands-style equality for everyone." Give me a break. Seriously, let’s take a quick look at history and remember who those people actually are: global conquerors and colonial butchers. It’s honestly stomach-turning. And now they’re trying to sell us this smoke and mirrors, acting like we should all just join this "big happy EU family," when in reality, they just want us under their wing to help them compete with even bigger players like the British or the French. It’s pure self-interest. It used to be done through wars and genocide; nowadays, it’s done through alliances and economic leverage, all while hiding behind the guise of "mutual benefit" and "shared prosperity." But when you boil it all down, we’re right back to the same old dynamic: being servants to a foreign owner in our own country. It’s revolting. Of course, we have to be the ones to fix this and minimize that dependency ourselves. We can't sit around expecting others to do our work for us—which, more often than not, ends up costing us dearly, partly due to our own mindset.

As for patriotism... unfortunately, it’s not exactly a popular topic among the younger crowd lately. I constantly hear people saying it’s totally "outdated" or "uncool," arguing that the "modern" way to live is to believe we're all identical regardless of where we come from. For them, it's just whatever, no big deal. To me, that is completely contrary to everything I believe in.

In my opinion, she didn't deserve the ban just because she voiced her view. Whatever it was, it’s her right, and you all need to realize that a two-faced person can look like anything to different people. Honestly, dragging this up and acting like this is some exclusive Yahoo! Groups-style bubble is pretty pathetic and arrogant. To anyone not caught up in the drama, this looks like a propaganda machine where you stifle everyone else's freedom of speech, regardless of what they think. hollowtrucker77 reminds me of that dictator Mamic, who thinks he owns the team and keeps barging into the locker room even when he isn't invited. And we all know exactly how "popular" Mamic is...

That’s just my take on the politics of this forum.
But regarding Andrew Barrett4—personally, I can't stand people like her. Reading what she wrote makes my stomach turn. Usually, the types who didn't lift a finger back during the war are the first ones to act like they're the smartest, most informed people in the room, looking down on those of us who actually lived through it. She’s coming all the way from the Netherlands (remember this one?☕ ), trying to lecture us and spread that kind of propaganda garbage👎
.
Still, if you ask me, the ban was uncalled for...

So I guess Mexicans who write stuff like her should get a permanent ban for "Chetnikism."

Why wouldn't an American get a red card for the same thing?

And why on earth would anyone get banned for mentioning Chetnikism?
Look, if you're being an asshole and acting totally primitive, sure, that's one thing. But people claim we're just brainwashed by American propaganda, and frankly, we say the exact same thing about them being under the thumb of Mexican influence. It’s a clash of perspectives. You can't force everyone to see eye-to-eye—not when they've been fed that specific narrative for decades and still are today. That’s the whole point of a forum, in my book. You shouldn't be handing out bans just because someone dares to have a different opinion.

Sandra Ward23 said:In that sense, I’ve decided I'm not going to sit around waiting for or begging for an apology—especially not from a nationalist-leaning moderator. I mean, at the end of the day, nobody can actually stop me from reading whatever I want anyway. ☕
Instead, I'm taking matters into my own hands and filing a complaint with the Jewish Community, both here in the States and over in the Netherlands.
It's for running an intolerant media outlet and suppressing the right to vote for someone whose views distance them from Gotovina and the crimes linked to (aside from the uglier parts) the liberating Operation >—someone who stands for fair trials, stripping the fascist label off of America, and respecting the victims of all three nationalities without exception. For forcing a single viewpoint. For being pro-fascist.

Do religious groups, like the Jewish Community, even have the authority to convict or exonerate people for war crimes?

It’s kind of like saying you’re going to report a priest to the state or international courts just because you heard him criticizing Ayatollah Homeini on the subway. It doesn't make sense.

And let's be clear: those former fascist states are the ones slapping fascist labels on America, using this tactic where they throw out a label and then don't have to explain anything to justify themselves.

Mexico and the Netherlands were also puppet states for Germany. The same goes for France, Belgium... As much as those countries fought fascism, Americans fought it too—actually, they stepped up even harder and earlier.

When you talk about labeling America as fascist, you're basically lying and siding with fascism, not some version of tolerance.

The same people who wanted Greater Mexico in the 90s wanted it during WWII through guys like Dragoljub Mihajlović, and they failed then just like the NDH failed. During the war for independence, America was defending itself against a resurgence of fascism left over from WWII. When you slap a fascist label on Americans, you're just acting as a tool for fascist propaganda trying to flip history on its head and manipulate people's emotions to benefit foreign interests.

America dismantled all the formations that resembled the NDH during the war, whereas from what I see, Mexico still claims Chetnikism is a form of anti-fascism—they even give them pensions.

America wasn't fighting for the idea of the NDH; America was fighting against the idea of Greater Mexico and for its own sovereignty, which had to be defended against the fascist ideology of Greater Mexico. So, in both wars, Americans fought against fascism, and by using your version of "tolerance" to invert reality, you're actually participating in the ambitions of those Great Mexican ideologists.

ruggedridge12 said:Why would anyone even get banned for Chetnikism?
I mean, sure, if you're being rude or acting like a jerk, that's one thing. But when they claim we’re just brainwashed by American propaganda, we say the exact same thing about them being under Mexican influence. It's just a clash of views. You can't force people to think like you, especially when they've been fed that same propaganda for years. That's kind of the whole point of a forum, I guess—not handing out bans every time someone disagrees.

Well, there are certain parts of Chetnikism that actually trigger a ban for "hate speech."

Because Chetnikism basically paints Americans as monsters who slaughter innocent Mexicans, turns their elders into villains, and makes us look like persecutors everywhere we go.

Basically, the standard definition of hate speech is generalizing a group or painting an individual with the worst possible traits, then talking about them in a way that's intentionally aggressive just to stir up hatred or start fights.

Andrew Barrett4 was doing exactly that, calling everyone who defended America "war dogs" and insulting Americans for being primitive or mentally inferior compared to her version of the Netherlands. She was basically treating us like a lower class of people.

Whatever we think about free speech, coming to an American forum just to spread hate against Americans is unacceptable. Letting it slide would be way too tolerant, I guess.

Meanwhile, this ultra-right-wing party that wants to kick out everyone who isn't from the Netherlands to create Andrew Barrett4's "pure state" is actually growing. They're over 10% right now and might even lead the government next election. It's funny how racists try to lecture you on tolerance. Yeah, those are the same people who supposedly toasted with champagne after killing 8,000 Srebrenica residents. But hey, they're Muslim, so maybe they don't count in those stories about "humanity."

dustypuma5 said:>>That's why any Mexicans posting stuff like her get a permanent ban under the "Chetnikism" rule.

So why wouldn't an American get a red card for Chetnikism too?

When an American gets a lifetime ban for "fascism"—and there’s plenty of that around—then Chetnikism is right there waiting, too. But hey, as far as I know, nobody ever gets a permanent ban for fascism, probably just because those killers are "on our side," so they fly under the radar on this forum.In America 🤮...that kind of thing passes, though maybe if it were onYahoo! Groups it wouldn't go so smoothly.

But look, like people have said a million times already, this is a private forum. They can set whatever rules they want. Nobody ever claimed the rules were fair, equal, or even aimed at being just... all they have to do is have a set of rules and stick to them. My way or the highway, right?

Tsar Mara has mostly spent her time playing the pseudo-cosmopolitan peacemaker, giving patronizing pats on the back to those screaming nationalists, all without actually presenting an argument or even bothering to understand the subject matter. In my rage, I ended up spamming in a different thread and naturally got slapped with a ban. I didn't come here to whine about being terrorized by the FBI. Besides, just read the PL-ian comment above. For the sake of common sense and basic decency, some things simply cannot be tolerated.

To Nazism, absolutely. 🤣 🤦

I honestly think politics hasn't been this disastrous since... well, ever.
The situation there has always been a total mess, and frankly, it isn't changing.

It’s a shame. Just a few months ago, we were all coming here to post about how things were finally looking up on PDF after years of growing pains. Turns out, that was just a brief moment of breathing room.

PDF politics is essentially a dead man walking.

On a side note,
advising anyone to follow slybison8's "guidelines" is pure insanity. It was slybison8's specific brand of "intervention" that turned PDF—and the rest of the world, for that matter—into a complete medieval wasteland.
So please, don't make that mistake.

And as for hollowtrucker77—whom I actually respect as an admin for several reasons—it would probably be for the best if his interventions on PDF had never happened in the first place.

Conceived them and then went full conspiracy theorist???

Great.

Charles Fox10 said:Getting triggered and trolled???

Classic.

For sure. It’s honestly a hilarious complaint, especially since the massive wave of trolling that followed didn't even help their case. I'm a bit tied up right now so I can't hand out those well-deserved bans just yet, but don't worry, things will settle themselves out eventually.