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Please don't edit posts...

Started by dustypuma5 · · 👁 8 views · 51 replies

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Participants dustypuma5Ryan Vaughn7Nicholas Kinghollowtrucker77Jose White18northerntigerSarah Wilson95slywolf45brightridge59velvettrucker52Lisa Hernandez3Jacob Foster11Ryan Gomez4feraltrucker5
dustypuma5 dustypuma5 Active MemberOP
111 messages
joined Apr 2013
#41 ·
Ryan Vaughn7 said:Glad you fixed it. Especially since there hasn't been a single mod intervention since you started this thread. I guess the fix has something to do with that old post from Saurus.
I don't even know how many posts you've edited, or if any others were changed besides this one sentence we've been stuck on all day. I don't really keep track of stuff like that.

Mine and Saurus's posts were deleted this morning, and man, there was so much trolling going on earlier.
I don't know how you moderate, but it seems obvious to me it should just be systematic, like post 1, then 2, then 3...

If you delete 9 and 10, and then a few hours later 8 and 11 are gone too, it’s bound to look suspicious, you know? 🙂

So yeah, more might have been edited. Maybe.

And now I'm supposed to believe it was only edited because it broke the rules. Whatever, I still think you're an honest guy, and honestly, I don't feel like scrolling through a hundred posts.

My take on edits:
The edit option requires a massive amount of trust in mods, because they basically have a tool that could be abused. Especially since we can't see what a post looks like after it's been wiped, so they could easily present a fake version of things. I'm not accusing Ryan Vaughn7 of doing anything like that, it's just a flaw in the software, and someone could exploit that gap eventually. But since nothing is perfect, we just have to trust that the people moderating are being straight with us.

Even when editing happens, users should probably be notified. Like, a yellow card system would be perfect—send them a DM instead of making it awkward by calling out modified posts ourselves.

We're responsible for what we write; we consider it our own content, even if technically once you hit "submit," it belongs to you guys per the rules. Still, we should have control over how our posts look, and in turn, take the heat if they break the rules.
If you give us rules to follow, give us the right to keep our posts looking the way we want them to. If there's a mismatch between the content and the rules, the tools to fix it are in your hands anyway.
🙂
Ryan Vaughn7 Ryan Vaughn7 Active Member
154 messages
joined Jul 2009
#42 ·
Just to be clear, there were no internal interventions. And since you've become somewhat exhausting lately with all these elaborate theories and constructions of yours, I think I'll just leave you to entertain yourself with them.
dustypuma5 dustypuma5 Active MemberOP
111 messages
joined Apr 2013
#43 ·
Ryan Vaughn7 said:Look, there was zero outside interference. And since you've become such a massive pain with all these theories and "arguments" lately, I'm just gonna leave you to play with them by yourself.

Now you're making me doubt how honest you actually are. Because this is straight up false.

Since I'm probably not getting an answer to my last question anyway, just lock the thread.

Whatever, it's out there or it's settled. Mods, users, admins... judge for yourselves. 🙂
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#44 ·
brightridge59 said:Look, editing a post is only necessary if the thing is actually unreadable, which happens way more often than you'd think.

Nah, I don't think it's strictly necessary.
The whole issue of how a post looks or whether the quality is up to par is really on the user, not the moderators.
If someone posts something that's total gibberish, you can just delete it without a second thought, or honestly, just leave it there because most people are smart enough to just scroll right past it anyway.
Sure, mods have the ability to edit, but they should probably use that tool as little as possible.
Even if you're just fixing a couple of line breaks or a tiny grammatical slip-up, you're basically handing ammunition to some malicious user who wants to start a rumor that a "power-tripping" moderator is out to destroy their literary masterpiece.
Sadly, I've even heard stories about mods editing a post just to make it look like the user was being offensive, using it as an excuse to hand out a ban.
So yeah, having good intentions doesn't always cut it when things get messy.
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#45 ·
hollowtrucker77 said:No, I don't think that's necessary.
The issue regarding post quality and overall presentation lies with the users themselves—not the moderators.

What brightridge59 and (if my memory serves me right) VH do from time to time is perfectly fine—actually, they deserve more credit for it, since it clearly takes a decent amount of time and patience.

We have to keep in mind that we're talking about an American forum—one where you constantly see newcomers popping up with stories that might actually be interesting, except they're just—good grief—completely unreadable due to a total lack of formatting. In those instances, deleting a single post essentially means nuking the entire thread, and I really doubt that’s going to sit well with the new guys. Besides, someone is bound to jump in eventually with some sort of "old-timer conspiracy theory" anyway.

At this point, forcing people to use proper formatting feels less like moderation and more like some kind of rookie training seminar. 😁
Lisa Hernandez3 Lisa Hernandez3 Active Member
211 messages
joined Aug 2010
#46 ·
hollowtrucker77 said:No, I don't think that's necessary—not really.
The quality and overall presentation of the posts are really the users' responsibility—not the moderators'. I guess it’s just how things work, but maybe people should take more pride in what they put out there.
If a post is just unreadable, I suppose you can go ahead and delete it without any second thoughts—or, honestly, you could just leave it up, since most people on the forum will probably just ignore it anyway.
The moderators certainly have the ability to edit posts—they have that power at their fingertips—but I guess it would be better if they kept that to a minimum. It might be worth sticking to the basics whenever possible.
Even if we’re only talking about adjusting a few inches—or maybe just fixing a minor grammatical slip—it only takes one person with an axe to grind to start spinning a narrative that some malicious moderator is out to destroy their literary masterpiece.
Unfortunately, there were even rumors circulating that a moderator went as far as editing a post just to make it look like an insult—only to then ban the user for it. I guess it's one of those situations where things aren't always what they seem, maybe?
So, I suppose it goes to show that having good intentions isn't always enough—it really isn't.

I suppose the original post could always be archived somewhere—perhaps in a private section of the forum. That way, it could be retrieved if someone decides to start playing games with the content. Honestly, anyone posting here should probably realize that if they include something meant to trigger an argument, that specific part might eventually be stripped away just to clean up the thread. I don't quite see why there's such a push for this idea of "post integrity," especially if the reason for editing is clearly stated and the original version is kept on file. Though, I guess you shouldn't really be editing a post and issuing a formal warning at the same time—it feels like it should be one or the other.
Jacob Foster11 Jacob Foster11 Active Member
132 messages
joined Nov 2007
#47 ·
Lisa Hernandez3 said:Sure, but you could always archive the original post somewhere—like a private section of the forum. That way, if someone starts playing games, you can pull it back out. Anyone posting here needs to realize that if they're just baiting people into arguments, those specific parts might get nuked eventually to clean up the thread. I don't see why anyone would obsess over "post integrity," especially if there's a clear reason for the edit (provided you save the original). Just don't try to edit a post and ban the user at the same time—pick one or the other.

It’s impossible. The system isn't built for that.

Editing is bad because there’s no audit trail. You're basically just stuck taking a moderator's word for what was changed.

I'm with hollowtrucker77 on this. A post is a single unit. It either gets a ban or it doesn't. It either gets deleted or it stays. Messing with them is wrong, period.
slywolf45 slywolf45 Regular
299 messages
joined Apr 2016
#48 ·
Nicholas King said:What brightridge59 and (if memory serves me right) the mods occasionally do is perfectly fine—actually, it’s commendable, given how much patience and effort it requires.

We have to keep in mind we're talking about an American forum like Reddit or something similar, where you constantly get new users popping up with stories that aren't actually bad, they just look like a total nightmare to read because they lack any paragraph breaks. Deleting a post in those instances usually means nuking the whole thread, and I really don't think that's the best way to welcome newcomers. Besides, someone is bound to jump in eventually with some wild "old-timer conspiracy theory" anyway.

At that point, forcing people to hit the enter key starts feeling less like moderation and more like remedial training for rookies. 😁

Exactly. Otherwise, we end up with thousands of posts where people are whining, "Ugh, I can't be bothered to read this," or "This is unreadable." So, to prevent that, we just toss in a few line breaks here and there to make things legible.
And that's really all there is to it.🤷
Ryan Gomez4 Ryan Gomez4 Active Member
112 messages
joined Feb 2013
#49 ·
hollowtrucker77 said:Mods have editing privileges, but they really ought to keep their hands off everything else.
Even if it's just fixing a few typos or some basic grammar, some malicious user will spin a narrative claiming a "corrupt moderator" is butchering their literary masterpiece.
I've even heard stories about mods editing posts to make them look insulting just so they have an excuse to ban someone.
Bottom line: good intentions don't stop people from being petty.

That’s exactly why I don't touch anything. If a post is a total mess, I'll just polish it up and shoot the user a DM telling them to rephrase it.
Lisa Hernandez3 Lisa Hernandez3 Active Member
211 messages
joined Aug 2010
#50 ·
Jacob Foster11 said:It just isn't possible—the system simply doesn't support something like that.

Editing is a bit problematic—if I'm being honest—mostly because there isn't any real way to track changes. It leaves you in a position where you basically have to take a moderator's word for it when they claim they've altered something, which I guess is a tough spot to be in.

I didn't even go so far as to say the system actually supports it—and as for that last part? No comment.

For instance, over on the Psychology boards, we have users who frequently mess up their citations—and they do it in such a way that it triggers this massive chain reaction of misinformation throughout the entire thread. I usually step in to fix things by correcting those quotes, but—if we were strictly adhering to that whole "trust no one" principle—any one of those forum members could just claim that I took liberties and altered the actual content myself. I suppose, though, there is still an expectation of at least some basic mutual decency and integrity between us.
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#51 ·
Lisa Hernandez3, I suppose that kind of logic works fine in your neck of the woods, but if you tried that on other parts of this forum, people would immediately see right through it as just another desperate attempt to blame the mods and play the victim
feraltrucker5 feraltrucker5 Active Member
117 messages
joined Oct 2012
#52 ·
There’s actually this post edit history plugin floating around for vBulletin that would solve all these headaches once and for all. But honestly, looking at how things run around here, asking if we’re ever going to get it is kind of a joke. We aren't. ☕

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