Spanish Embassy (San Francisco-California) May 22, 2011

cosmicridge5 said:If you ask me, the real headache and the actual culprit behind all this chaos isn't DRS—it’s Pirelli. 😁 Tires. You could really see that playing out yesterday.

As for Ferrari, we’re basically sliding around on ice whenever we're on the hard compounds. We also took a hit yesterday because we burned through too many sets during qualifying. I guess if they could just stop obsessing over front-row starts and actually save some rubber for the race, things might look a little better. At least until they finally figure out how to fix this car, maybe then we won't be getting lapped by everyone else. 🙏 😁

I wouldn't say the hard tires specifically are the issue. It looks more like any tire struggles when the car is running light or empty.😕

RB and Ferrari are total opposites.😕

RB—fast when light, slow when heavy.
Ferrari—fast when heavy, slow when light.

Gary Palmer8 said:I honestly think it’ll be tough to top the claim that Red Bull is only this good because of Vettel rather than Newey.

Super tough.

But don't you see? They basically sidelined Webber from the jump this year just to avoid a repeat of last season's drama.

It really says a lot about that supposed "Vettel superiority" thing. 🤣

Honestly, it looked like he just didn't have the grip yesterday.
I'm not looking for excuses or anything, it just seemed weird that he couldn't grab the apex.
If I remember correctly, even Michael Lee4 seemed surprised by how much he was struggling.

He was fast for a split second, then nothing.

Though... I didn't catch him being particularly angry afterward, which is odd when you know how he gets when things go wrong (😍). He just claimed he didn't clear the debris early enough and it built up. So what?🤷

It'll happen again.☕😁😁

stormybadger8 said:I wouldn't say the hard tires specifically are the issue. It looks more like any tire struggles when the car is running light or empty.😕

RB and Ferrari are total opposites.😕

RB—fast when light, slow when heavy.
Ferrari—fast when heavy, slow when light.

I don't know, I was listening to Baby after the race yesterday, and he was saying the issue is definitely the hard tires. Apparently, they're a total disaster—just zero grip.

We'll see what happens in Monaco. If we've actually learned anything from all this, maybe we'll get to watch Ferrari absolutely fall apart during qualifying. 😁 Honestly, Fernando doesn't even need that P5 qualifying spot. I guess it might actually be better to just start 10th and fight our way through the pack, rather than grabbing pole only to deal with all that inevitable drama once those hard tires start falling apart. 😁

Gary Palmer8 said:I honestly think it’ll be tough to top the claim that Red Bull is only this good because of Vettel rather than Newey.

Super tough.

But don't you see? They basically sidelined Webber from the jump this year just to avoid a repeat of last season's drama.

It really says a lot about that supposed "Vettel superiority" thing. 🤣

Oh, sure. So I guess Alonso and Hamilton didn't contribute anything to their cars' pace during their careers?🍿

So, in your world, is Hamilton just some lucky passenger who won titles solely because of the car and engineers? Did he build his own McLaren in his garage or something?

And Alonso is such an elite mechanic that he could basically assemble those 2005 and 2006 Renaults with one hand. Too bad his hand was acting up before the season, or maybe he was just too busy waving at Petrov in Abu Dhabi to build a decent car this year.

Get real. Every driver in a team plays a massive role in developing the car. We saw how good the RB was when Webber and Coulthard were driving it, and the crew was identical.☕

You can also see the massive drop-off in the STR ever since Vettel left:

STR 2007 (Liuzzi & Speed/Vettel) - 7 total (8 points - 0 wins)
STR 2008 (Vettel 35 & Buemi 4) - 6 total (39 points - 1 win)🙏
STR 2009 (Buemi & Buemi/Alguersuari) 10 (8 points - 0 wins)
STR 2010 (Buemi & Alguersuari) 9 total (13 points - 0 wins)
STR 2011 (Buemi & Alguersuari) 7 total (6 points - 0 wins)

RB 2007 (Webber & Coulthard) - 5 (24 points - 0 wins)
RB 2008 (Webber & Coulthard) - 7 (29 points - 0 wins)
RB 2009 (Webber & Vettel) - 2 (153.5 points - 6 wins (4 for Vettel))
RB 2010 (Webber & Vettel) - 1 (498 points - 9 wins (5 for Vettel))
RB 2011 (Webber & Vettel) - 1 (185 points - 4 wins (4 for Vettel))

The fact is, Webber had a phenomenal 2010 while Vettel had his worst year ever in 2010—and nothing else. But that doesn't change the reality: the STR with Vettel was actually a solid outfit, whereas before and after him, it was a complete joke. And the RB with Webber before Vettel arrived was a total underdog that the STR used to kick around.☕

Newey has been at RB since 2006 and struggled with Webber and Coulthard; the car finally clicked once Vettel showed up.

Being fast isn't enough. You have to know how to develop the car and give feedback, sure, but you also need the brains to pick the right team where you can actually make something happen with the car and the engineers you've got.

Gary Palmer8 said:I honestly think it’ll be tough to top the claim that Red Bull is only this good because of Vettel rather than Newey.

Super tough.

But don't you see? They basically sidelined Webber from the jump this year just to avoid a repeat of last season's drama.

It really says a lot about that supposed "Vettel superiority" thing. 🤣

Of course he's talking☕

Even if we assume Webber is trash, here's the reality:

- Button is trash
- Massa is trash

Why?
Because their teammate is way better than they are☕

Use some logic. Fine, trash Massa. Fine, trash Button. But don't you dare call Webber trash🤣

Go sell your fairy tales to someone else🤣

Bottom line: Webber is his own worst enemy. Or maybe you actually think Red Bull is to blame for those terrible starts?🙄

hollowdriver18 said:Honestly, it looked like he just didn't have the grip yesterday.
I'm not looking for excuses or anything, it just seemed weird that he couldn't grab the apex.
If I remember correctly, even Michael Lee4 seemed surprised by how much he was struggling.

He was fast for a split second, then nothing.

Though... I didn't catch him being particularly angry afterward, which is odd when you know how he gets when things go wrong (😍). He just claimed he didn't clear the debris early enough and it built up. So what?🤷

It'll happen again.☕😁😁

Even Vettel couldn't have passed him, yet he casually cleared Massa, Button, and Rosberg all in a few corners before the DRS zone.😳

Seriously, Hamilton wasn't even visibly faster than Vettel; it was like DRS didn't even exist in that Spanish GP.😕

And I'm pretty sure the KERS on both Red Bulls was acting up.😳

Most importantly, McLaren and Ferrari were absolutely killing them on the straights.😉

cosmicridge5 said:I don't know, I was listening to Baby after the race yesterday, and he was saying the issue is definitely the hard tires. Apparently, they're a total disaster—just zero grip.

We'll see what happens in Monaco. If we've actually learned anything from all this, maybe we'll get to watch Ferrari absolutely fall apart during qualifying. 😁 Honestly, Fernando doesn't even need that P5 qualifying spot. I guess it might actually be better to just start 10th and fight our way through the pack, rather than grabbing pole only to deal with all that inevitable drama once those hard tires start falling apart. 😁

Nah, Alonso just completely wrecked Red Bull's strategy, and that's what dictated the whole race.😳

Since Red Bull couldn't pass him on track, they went into the pits early. Everyone, including Alonso, ended up following them into the pits to cover the move. That happened twice within the first 30% of the race!

Around lap 20-25, everyone was running on their last set of softs (one from the start, set two around lap 10, set three around lap 20). Naturally, those hard tires had to last about 40-45 laps (two sets of 20+), so everyone's tires just gave up at the end. That’s why Button did so well—he was the only one not busy covering those early pit stops. It's also why Alonso was screwed, because his final set of softs were used ones (he trashed his softs in qualifying). Same for Webber, who put on new ones during the first stop, while Vettel and Hamilton went on new softs during their second stops. That's where the massive gap came from.

When you think about it, if he hadn't been overtaken at the start, he might have finished better. Or, if he’d just stayed out on track and ignored the Red Bulls, would Hamilton have passed him? Hamilton had to pit, and his tires were garbage in the first stint, so getting rid of them worked perfectly for him. Plus, the pace was relatively slow. 😉 But Button definitely wouldn't have caught him.

Plus... I just remembered how relieved Horner looked right after the race when those guys finally showed up on the grid.

It wasn't even an issue with the cars—that’s where you’re wrong: *gestures to neck* 😁

But props to Vettel for that move at the very end 🙂... especially considering he had every single tool available to him.

Things got pretty intense this time, honestly 😳☕😁😁

stormybadger8 said:I wouldn't say the hard tires specifically are the issue. It looks more like any tire struggles when the car is running light or empty.😕

RB and Ferrari are total opposites.😕

RB—fast when light, slow when heavy.
Ferrari—fast when heavy, slow when light.

It honestly makes sense if you consider that Ferrari’s aerodynamics are a total mess right now... they're struggling to find any balance while that extra weight just crushes the tires into the asphalt during the turns... and once that weight drops off, you're still left dealing with those incredibly stiff Goodyear tires that just refuse to grip anything.😬

I wouldn't necessarily say Red Bull is just fast; I'd say they're faster than the rest of the field whenever they're running light, and that all comes down to their superior aerodynamics. Even on the straights, you saw Vettel with that closed-wing setup pulling away from Hamilton's open-wing setup quite easily.

As for me, I think it was perfectly logical for Alonso to push for a better starting position on the grid—it's his home turf, after all, isn't it? It might have been the smarter tactical move to settle, but do you really think the fans would have ever forgiven them for that?

cosmicridge5 said:If you ask me, the real headache and the actual culprit behind all this chaos isn't DRS—it’s Pirelli. 😁 Tires. You could really see that playing out yesterday.

As for Ferrari, we’re basically sliding around on ice whenever we're on the hard compounds. We also took a hit yesterday because we burned through too many sets during qualifying. I guess if they could just stop obsessing over front-row starts and actually save some rubber for the race, things might look a little better. At least until they finally figure out how to fix this car, maybe then we won't be getting lapped by everyone else. 🙏 😁

as if Ferrari is the only team out there running on Pirellis... 🤣

I didn't catch the race 🙏

Has anything shifted? I noticed the winner wasn't 😁

Morgan Murphy7 said:I didn't catch the race 🙏

Has anything shifted? I noticed the winner wasn't 😁

hell no
those soft-as-baby-food fans are out here digging up every possible excuse for why the race went south again, totally missing the point that the race is over and he isn't winning it back now...😂

hollowgull5 said:as if Ferrari is the only team out there running on Pirellis... 🤣

I didn't exactly say I was only talking about Ferrari. 😕 😁 Take a look at what I quoted. 🙂

stormybadger8 said:Vettel 🙏🙏🙏

Which lap was that when he finally peeled out of the pits? 🙏

Massa, Button, Rosberg, Schumacher all in one single lap... 😲

Some genius was busy overanalyzing how Vettel can't actually overtake on track 😍

He was freaking incredible in this race. 👍

Look, even if those were some massive, turbo-charged achievements—and let’s be honest, they weren't—it doesn't change the reality of the situation. He came out on a fresh set of tires and just absolutely smoked them because of that advantage. Some of the other drivers didn't even put up much of a fight, either—take Massa, for instance... he barely even attempted to defend his position.
Generally speaking, we haven't seen many overt overtaking maneuvers this season that would actually give us a real sense of which driver possesses superior passing skills—it’s just been pretty sparse. Most of what we have seen lately seems less about pure driving talent and more about the technicalities—you know, things like tire degradation or slight differences in rubber age between cars. It’s hard to judge true racecraft when the gaps are being closed by equipment rather than sheer grit!🤷
I was actually more impressed by how they held their ground during that final sprint—they really earned some serious credit for that defensive masterclass.

cosmicridge5 said:I didn't exactly say I was only talking about Ferrari. 😕 😁 Take a look at what I quoted. 🙂

Everyone is running on the exact same tires and the exact same track, so let's be real, everyone is dealing with the same conditions 😉
And trying to nitpick every tiny little detail just to justify some whiny loser's terrible race isn't going to magically put them back on the podium, because the race is already over... 😉

Nancy Scott5 said:Perez just blew it. Seriously, what was that driving and what kind of strategy were they even running?🤦

Look, Massa actually fits the strategy perfectly😳, he's just absolutely, miserably pathetic 🤮

Nancy Scott5 said:Massa finally called it quits before he could embarrass himself any further.
Heidfeld 8🙏

Did he quit or did he just get booted?

Nick 🙏

Joshua Doyle11 said:Wait, where did darkmarlin16 disappear to?🤷

I guess he finally lost his nerve.

It’s just so predictable, isn't it? That’s exactly how you’d expect an Alonso supporter to act when things get heated.☕

I'm right here☕

Nancy Scott5 said:I was really banking on Hamilton pulling some crazy Banzai move and blowing past Vettel.
But it just didn't happen.😢

And let's be real, Hamilton isn't even the same beast he used to be😢

stormybadger8 said:Oh, sure. So I guess Alonso and Hamilton didn't contribute anything to their cars' pace during their careers?🍿

So, in your world, is Hamilton just some lucky passenger who won titles solely because of the car and engineers? Did he build his own McLaren in his garage or something?

And Alonso is such an elite mechanic that he could basically assemble those 2005 and 2006 Renaults with one hand. Too bad his hand was acting up before the season, or maybe he was just too busy waving at Petrov in Abu Dhabi to build a decent car this year.

Get real. Every driver in a team plays a massive role in developing the car. We saw how good the RB was when Webber and Coulthard were driving it, and the crew was identical.☕

You can also see the massive drop-off in the STR ever since Vettel left:

STR 2007 (Liuzzi & Speed/Vettel) - 7 total (8 points - 0 wins)
STR 2008 (Vettel 35 & Buemi 4) - 6 total (39 points - 1 win)🙏
STR 2009 (Buemi & Buemi/Alguersuari) 10 (8 points - 0 wins)
STR 2010 (Buemi & Alguersuari) 9 total (13 points - 0 wins)
STR 2011 (Buemi & Alguersuari) 7 total (6 points - 0 wins)

RB 2007 (Webber & Coulthard) - 5 (24 points - 0 wins)
RB 2008 (Webber & Coulthard) - 7 (29 points - 0 wins)
RB 2009 (Webber & Vettel) - 2 (153.5 points - 6 wins (4 for Vettel))
RB 2010 (Webber & Vettel) - 1 (498 points - 9 wins (5 for Vettel))
RB 2011 (Webber & Vettel) - 1 (185 points - 4 wins (4 for Vettel))

The fact is, Webber had a phenomenal 2010 while Vettel had his worst year ever in 2010—and nothing else. But that doesn't change the reality: the STR with Vettel was actually a solid outfit, whereas before and after him, it was a complete joke. And the RB with Webber before Vettel arrived was a total underdog that the STR used to kick around.☕

Newey has been at RB since 2006 and struggled with Webber and Coulthard; the car finally clicked once Vettel showed up.

Being fast isn't enough. You have to know how to develop the car and give feedback, sure, but you also need the brains to pick the right team where you can actually make something happen with the car and the engineers you've got.

Of course he's talking☕

Even if we assume Webber is trash, here's the reality:

- Button is trash
- Massa is trash

Why?
Because their teammate is way better than they are☕

Use some logic. Fine, trash Massa. Fine, trash Button. But don't you dare call Webber trash🤣

Go sell your fairy tales to someone else🤣

Bottom line: Webber is his own worst enemy. Or maybe you actually think Red Bull is to blame for those terrible starts?🙄

Look, you hit on some solid points there, but you totally glossed over the elephant in the room: Red Bull basically mastered the art of the pivot when those radical regulation changes dropped. While everyone else was spinning their wheels, they just leaned into the chaos and found that sweet spot faster than anyone else on the grid. They didn't just adapt to the new aero rules; they practically rewrote the playbook on how to handle a massive technical shift.😉

darkmarlin16 said:Look, you hit on some solid points there, but you totally glossed over the elephant in the room: Red Bull basically mastered the art of the pivot when those radical regulation changes dropped. While everyone else was spinning their wheels, they just leaned into the chaos and found that sweet spot faster than anyone else on the grid. They didn't just adapt to the new aero rules; they practically rewrote the playbook on how to handle a massive technical shift.😉

But man, they basically had to start from scratch just like everyone else 😉
right?

darkmarlin16 said:Look, you hit on some solid points there, but you totally glossed over the elephant in the room: Red Bull basically mastered the art of the pivot when those radical regulation changes dropped. While everyone else was spinning their wheels, they just leaned into the chaos and found that sweet spot faster than anyone else on the grid. They didn't just adapt to the new aero rules; they practically rewrote the playbook on how to handle a massive technical shift.😉

So, what’s that supposed to mean? 🤷

What if Alonso had actually spent some time testing for Red Bull? Just a thought.🤣

stormybadger8 said:So, what’s that supposed to mean? 🤷

What if Alonso had actually spent some time testing for Red Bull? Just a thought.🤣

Are you seriously trying to tell me the car wasn't nearly as elite when DC was driving it for Red Bull compared to how insane it felt once Vettel took the wheel? 😉

I wasn't really glued to the screen during the race, but I see Alonso managed a solid fifth.
Ferrari 😍