America loses an Olympian: Jakob Fak heads to Canada

Jose White18 said:Fak is leaving regardless.
Whether he heads over to Canada or just retires, if those shady phantom contracts are tied to him, they won't get anything out of them either way. It’s a house of cards—all bill, no bartender.

If Fak stops competing, things might play out like this: the Canadian Ski Association will demand payment for Fak's training sessions leading up to the World Championships and the Olympics, then the HBS will probably act oblivious again. Eventually, it lands in court, which will inevitably rule in favor of the Canadians. Since the HBS won't have the funds to pay up, the International Biathlon Union will suspend the HBS, forcing the USOPC to cover the debt, which leaves them with zero money left to fund training for other American Olympians.

And let's not forget—we'll undoubtedly see people here posting about some massive global conspiracy theory. 😁

Henry Cox78 said:Would the price tag be a million if this were about you? Give me a break. What do you or the federation actually gain from ruining someone's life? Is the federation going to get some gold star or a pat on the back for this? Are you personally going to cover Fak's medical bills and social security after these guys tear him apart? If everyone else in this situation is acting like a total snake, then at least the federation should show some actual humanity.

From the jump, Fak was negotiating with our side while holding absolutely nothing up his sleeve. He kept making excuses about how there were "no conditions met" or whatever. But the second our guys pulled together enough sponsors and actually set things up for him, he changed his tune and jumped ship to the Europeans instead. Personally, I think they screwed him—or honestly, he just screwed himself by tying his fate to Velepec.

I really need to get some thoughts down regarding the Winter Olympics in Canada.
So, look—Fak was out there carrying the flag at the opening ceremony. Let’s be real: that move was done for one reason and one reason only—to make sure Fak feels like he's the guy everyone is banking on. If you look at the actual sports logic, or any other logical metric, Ivica Kostelić should have been the one carrying that flag. Period.
The Kostelić family wasn't exactly thrilled about it, but they caught on to what was actually happening. Later on, people tried to spin it by claiming it would have been a logistical nightmare for Ivica because the stadium was too far 50 miles from where Ivica lives and trains. Give me a break! Honestly, if it had been asked of him, Ivica would've walked that distance on foot just to do his job.
But fine, the Kostelić clan understood the situation with Fak.
Once Fak snagged that bronze, the entire American ski pool shows up to the victory party... including the Kostelić crew (both Gips and Ivica). The whole point was to signal to Fak: "Hey, you're one of us." You have to admit, the Kostelić family played an "active" role in trying to keep Fak integrated into the fold.
Now, here’s the part that actually interests me—through all this drama, Fak didn't show even a shred of emotion. At least, I couldn't read a single thing on his face. He carries the American flag at the opening (doesn't care, face is ice cold)... he gets the medal, the anthem plays (doesn't care, face is ice cold)... there's the big party at night, everyone shows up, everyone's there (doesn't care, face is still ice cold). I mean, fine, maybe that's just how the guy is built—just totally stoic.
But then, fast forward to this press conference in Washington, D.C. two days ago, and what happens?
Suddenly, Fak's voice is trembling, you can practically see the tears welling up in his eyes. For the first time ever, Fak actually shows some damn emotion. And why? What could possibly trigger that?
Because he can't compete for the US anymore!
That's the part I can't stomach. It proves to me that, deep down, he doesn't really care about the flag, the country, or any of it...
And hey, look, I'll be fair—he has every right to feel that way. It's his life, his choice, and anyone can make that call.
But he also needs to realize that choices like this come with consequences. We'll just have to wait and see what those end up being. From what I'm hearing in the latest reports, though, I suspect he might actually wiggle out of it pretty cheaply.
If the roles were reversed, I bet you anything the Americans would be a hell of a lot tougher on him than the folks back home.

Look, I’m telling you again... the Canadian Ski Association didn't just hand anything to Fak for nothing... so there’s really no reason to go running scared from any lawsuits.

Now, the real kicker is—what was the actual price tag? Was it actually "market value" or was it some sweetheart deal? That’s an entirely different beast and has absolutely nothing to do with the courts or legal filings.
At the end of the day, it definitely wasn't free.

swiftwalker43 said:Honestly, this whole thing with the neighbors trying to dodge their payments—it just shows how cheap they are and how little they actually care about Jakob Fak. I mean, if paying athlete transfer fees is standard practice in sports, then let them pay up or they don't get the release papers. If they can't cough up 100k, then they should just fuck off and wait two years while he sits out.
Personally, I’m against having Fak come back to us (he’s already mentally moved on anyway), so let him go to the neighbors, but they need to settle this debt.
And regarding the training conditions—look, plenty of athletes in America across various sports haven't had decent setups, yet after hitting it big, they didn't feel the need to jump ship to some other national team.
I'll say it again: if he hadn't been offered—or paid—basically everything following his success, or if he’d been ignored or lowballed, I’d be the first one backing him up. But in this case? To me, he’s just a traitor we should move past as soon as possible.

You’re way too shallow with the facts to even make a real assessment here. They weren't offering him actual conditions; all they were throwing at him was cash and some vague promises that maybe, someday, things would finally be set up properly. He wasn't given immediate stability, a clear path, or a coach. He wasn't offered a professional setup including mechanics, physios, or even enough funds for the fifty grand worth of skis required for top-tier results. All they offered was money for him and a coach. Get it through your head—they weren't offering him the kind of environment he had when he was training with a major powerhouse; it was actually worse. The salary wasn't the issue; the issue was that with what they were offering, he probably wouldn't have achieved anything at all.

As for those American athletes who succeeded despite lacking proper training conditions... name just one.

To me, traitors are the people sitting around drinking domestic beer, bragging about their massive patriotism while they haven't done a damn thing for this country. It’s easy to be a huge patriot when you're a nobody. I guess there are different definitions of what a traitor is.

And one more mistake in your logic: you can't compare soccer to biathlon. Soccer clubs pay because they know that player will generate revenue in a dozen different ways; they see the investment as something that pays back. These niche sports are just money pits—they're basically buckets that you just pour cash into. Like our winter sports stars who cost tens of millions a year and never see a cent of that return. Soccer sustains itself. So, any comparison is just pointless. Actually, this whole debate is pointless if I'm wasting my time arguing with idiots who don't even know the basic facts but still have an opinion—just like everyone else has an ass. You really don't need to know the facts to have an opinion. Anyone can have one, and anyone can be a huge patriot.

wiredtiger8 said:I should probably mention that thing during the Winter Olympics in Canada.
So, basically, Fak was the one carrying the flag at the opening ceremony. That move was done purely to show Fak that they're leaning on him as much as possible. From a sporting standpoint—and honestly, just common sense—that flag really should have been carried by Bode Miller.
The Miller family wasn't exactly thrilled about it, though they eventually realized what was actually going on. Later, the excuse given was that it would have been a logistical nightmare for Bode because the stadium where the opening was held was too far 50 miles from his home base and training grounds. It's kind of ridiculous, really. Believe me, if they had actually asked Bode to do it, he would’ve made the trek on foot if he had to.

Once again, we're missing the actual facts here. The issue wasn't 50 miles but rather the schedule itself. Bode is usually tucked into bed by 7:30 PM since he's up at 4:00 AM every single day without fail. The opening ceremony was an evening event, and his downhill training sessions had already kicked off—they actually started before the ceremony even happened. To be honest, Bode was perfectly fine with skipping it; he didn't even show up for the procession, and he said as much himself. If they had actually demanded he be there, he would've shown up and carried that flag—he's not the type to say no to a call to duty—but this setup worked out way better for him. I mean, look, downhill racing is dangerous business... you don't mess around with that stuff.

I don't see much point in this whole debate—it honestly feels like a collection of surface-level takes from people who don't really grasp the nuances of biathlon as a sport, or even the specifics of what happened here. But then again, I suppose that’s just how things go in this country. To be honest, I have my doubts about those folks who are so quick to chest-thump their patriotism, especially when nobody is actually asking them to step up or represent anything. They're basically nobodies, really. I’d love to see how they’d handle it if they were actually put in a position where they had to prove it.

wiredtiger8 said:I should probably mention the OI in Canada too.
So, Fak was carrying the flag at the opening ceremony over there. That move was done purely to show Fak that we’ve got his back completely. For all kinds of sporting and other reasons, that flag really should have been carried by Ivica Kostelić.
The Kostelić family wasn't exactly thrilled about it, but they caught on to what was happening. Later, they tried to claim it was an issue for Ivica because the stadium where the opening was held was too far 50 miles from where Ivica lives and trains. Give me a break! Trust me, if that had been asked of him, Ivica would've walked that distance on foot.
But alright, the Kostelić family understood the situation with Fak.
When Fak snagged the bronze, the entire US ski pool shows up to the "party"... including the Kostelić crew (Gips and Ivica). The goal is to show Fak: "You're one of us." You have to admit, the Kostelić family was pretty "active" in trying to keep Fak integrated.
Now, here's the thing that actually interests me: through all this, Fak didn't show even a shred of emotion—at least, I couldn't read a single thing on his face. I mean, the guy carries the American flag at the opening (doesn't care, face is "ice cold")... he gets the medal, the anthem plays (doesn't care, face is "ice cold")... then the party tonight, everyone shows up, absolutely everyone (doesn't care, face is "ice cold"). I figured, fine, maybe the guy is just built that way and doesn't show feelings.
But then, this press conference happens in Washington, D.C. two days ago, and what do we see?
Fak's voice is trembling, you can almost see the tears in his eyes. For the first time, Fak is showing actual emotion. And why?
Because he can't compete for Canada!
And honestly, that's what I hold against him; it shows that America, the flag, the homeland... none of it actually matters to him.
Whatever, to be fair, he has every right to feel that way; it's his choice, and everyone's entitled to their own path.
But he also needs to realize that comes with consequences. What those will look like remains to be seen. Based on the latest rumors I'm hearing, I think he'll get off pretty "cheaply."
If the roles were reversed, I bet the Canadians would be a whole lot "tougher" than the Americans.

👍👍

Spot on thinking.

Paul Jones7 said:Once again, people are just getting the facts wrong—it’s frustrating. The issue wasn't 50 miles it was the damn schedule. Ivica hits the sack by 7:30 PM sharp because he's up at 4 AM every single day. The opening ceremony was in the evening, right when his downhill training sessions were already ramping up (they actually started before the opening even happened). Honestly, it worked out better for him not having to be there—he didn't show up for the procession either, and he said so himself. If they had demanded he be there, he would have shown up and carried that American flag because he wouldn't dream of saying no, but this was just way more practical for him. Look, downhill racing is dangerous—there's no messing around with that stuff.

I probably know the facts better than anyone else on this board, though it doesn't really matter.
Yeah, regardless of how you slice it, that opening ceremony was at a terrible time for Ivica.
But that shouldn't have been the dealbreaker for him. You have to realize the next OI aren't for another four years. And while Ivica is grinding to prepare for them because he wants that gold—and let's be clear, for him, it's not about "a" gold medal, it's strictly about *the* gold—age isn't exactly on his side, and who knows what kind of injury might pop up tomorrow?
So, honestly, we might reach a point where Ivica doesn't carry the American flag at all.

Paul Jones7 said:...

If we're talking about athletes who somehow pulled off greatness despite having absolutely zero resources or training conditions, who comes to mind first?

...

The Kostelić clan?
Is anyone actually talking about Blanka anymore?

Is that enough?

Paul Jones7 said:...
To me, traitors are the people sitting around sipping a Budweiser while trash-talking world-class athletes, all while acting like some big-time patriot despite having done absolutely nothing for this country. It’s easy to play the hero when you’re a nobody. But hey, I guess everyone has their own little definition of what a traitor looks like...

People have all sorts of ways to define what a degenerate is. To me, though? A degenerate is just someone who thinks athletes are literal gods sent from above, acting like they can just demand everything while giving absolutely nothing back...

Paul Jones7 said:They didn't actually offer him any real conditions; all they offered was cash and some vague promises that things might eventually be fixed someday down the road. He wasn't guaranteed immediate support, a clear path, or even a dedicated coach. There was no mention of a professional team including mechanics or physiotherapists, nor were there funds provided for the fifty or so pairs of skis required to achieve top-tier results. All they put on the table was money for him and his coach.

Just to add my two cents here:
That figure the HOO promised him (300,000) is supposed to cover everything. That means his actual stipend, travel expenses if the federation doesn't foot the bill, gear, supplements, strength training, and all those other necessities.
Based on how much people were talking before he was out, you'd think they promised to hand him 300 million in cash. 🤷

Paul Jones7 said:this whole debate is a total wash—just a collection of shallow takes and people who clearly don't know the first thing about biathlon as a sport or even the specifics of this case. though, I guess their Americanism is beyond question. honestly, I have my biggest doubts about those who go overboard trying to prove how much they love the country, when nobody’s actually asking them to step up or act the part, and they’re basically nobodies. I’d love to see how those types handle things if the shoe were on the other foot
.

That was a pretty low blow, even for you.

I mean, does someone really need to be a "somebody" just to actually matter?
And does being a "nobody" automatically make someone "nothing"?
I know plenty of people—not from some news cycle or a TV show, but real people—who are big-shots in society but are absolute nobodies at heart. Unfortunately, they're everywhere.
On the flip side, I know tons of folks who might be "nobodies" or "nothing" by your definition, but they're the kind of people who actually make life worth living and give this world some sense... and frankly, that has absolutely nothing to do with being patriotic or shouting about your American roots.

wiredtiger8 said:I probably know the facts better than anyone else here, though I suppose that’s not really the point.
Yeah, regardless of how you look at it, that opening ceremony was just bad timing for Ivica.
But honestly, it wouldn't have been a dealbreaker for him. You have to remember, the next Olympics aren't for another four years—and even if he's training his head off because he wants that gold (and let's be clear, for him, an Olympic gold isn't just any medal, it's the only goal in life), he isn't getting any younger. Plus, who knows what tomorrow brings when you're dealing with injuries?
So, there's a real chance we might not even see Ivica carrying the American flag at all.

Now, I can't say for sure on this one—it's mostly speculation, I guess. I think for Ivek, winning those medals matters way more than whether or not he carries the flag, and I doubt he'd feel too bad if he didn't. Personally, if I were in his shoes, I wouldn't care much either; I've never been one for all those formalities and "honor" things. At the end of the day, a sportsman's success isn't measured by whether they carried the flag, but by their results. Another thing to consider: Ivek and Gips really look up to Fak. They see him as a massive athlete because they believe he forged those medals out of absolutely nothing. They've pointed out that people don't quite grasp how huge those achievements actually are. They see a parallel between Fak and themselves since they also started their skiing adventures from scratch. So, in their eyes, Fak deservedly carried that flag. Anyway, if you don't buy it, his old press box is still up on his website if you want to go ask him yourself—or maybe Janica, since they check in every now and then. But... if giving the flag to Fak was just some cheap tactic by the Fak HOO kitchen to keep him around, well, that's a pretty low move.

dustymarlin10 said:The Kostelić clan?
Blanka?

Is that enough?

The Kostelić kids—even when they were just little ones—basically had world-class training setups, honestly. That was all thanks to the sheer, fanatic sacrifice of the gypsum group and how much they prioritized those kids. I mean, the amount of time they spent on skis as children was incredible... I don't think any other female skier has put in as many hours as Janica did. Their success wasn't some fluke or just raw talent. Now, they didn't have "top-tier" conditions if you mean comfort, because back then they were sleeping in tents and stuff. But ever since Pavlek consolidated the cross-country programs, the Kostelić crew has had elite racing conditions. They have what everyone at the top level has—maybe even better than most, actually.

As for Blanka, she’s had solid training conditions her whole career; she's had everything she needed. There was a point a few years back where things looked shaky because of issues with the training facility, but that got sorted out. Throughout her entire career, Blanka hasn't lacked anything in terms of support and facilities.

Those people wouldn't have achieved what they did if they hadn't had everything necessary to succeed.

And what about Fak? Well, look, out of four Olympic races, he was out of contention in two of them simply because—out of maybe ten pairs of skis—the ones HBS provided just didn't have the right texture for the specific snow conditions during the races. So, he was losing minutes just on the descent. If he’d had the right gear, there’s a huge chance he could have grabbed another medal in that second race.

So, are those "world-class conditions"?

@Paul Jones7/">@@Paul Jones7...

Look, I KNOW deep down that Ivica would’ve given anything to carry the American flag at the Olympics before he finally hung up his skis.

But hey, let's just play along with the "what if" game for a second—what if he actually did carry that flag...

Sure, maybe he wouldn't have walked away with those medals... or who knows, maybe he would've been standing on top of the podium with gold around his neck... fate is a weird, unpredictable thing, isn't it?

briskbison28 said:just wanted to jump in here:
everything falls under that figure HOO promised him (300,000)—his actual stipend, travel costs for competitions if the federation doesn't cover them, gear, supplements, strength training, and all that good stuff.
based on what was being said before he dropped out, it sounded like they were promising him a cool 300 million in cash.🤷

nice one, briskbison28

between those Kostelić guys and all the overhead for competing, you're looking at millions. Fak's needs aren't any less significant, really. I mean, biathlon is an expensive sport—not much different from alpine skiing, I guess.

wiredtiger8 said:I should probably mention what went down at the Winter Olympics in Canada.
So, Fak was the one carrying the flag at the opening ceremony. That move was made purely to show Fak that he’s the guy everyone is counting on. If you look at the sports logic—or any logic, really—Bode Miller should have been the one carrying that flag.
The Kostelić family wasn't thrilled about it, but they got the drift. Later, the excuse given was that it would have been a logistical nightmare for Bode because the stadium was too far 50 miles from where he lives and trains. Give me a break! Believe me, if they had asked him, Bode would have walked that distance on foot just to do it.
But whatever, the Kostelić family understood the situation with Fak.
When Fak grabbed his bronze, the whole ski resort crew showed up for the celebration... including the Kostelić clan (Gips and Bode). The goal was to signal to Fak: "You're one of us." You have to admit, the Kostelić family played an "active" role in trying to make Fak feel included.
Now, here’s the part that actually interests me: through all of this, Fak didn't show a single shred of emotion. At least, that's not what I saw on his face. The guy carries the American flag at the opening (doesn't care, face is like ice)... he gets his medal, the anthem plays (doesn't care, face is like ice)... there's a party that night and everyone shows up (doesn't care, face is like ice). I figured, fine, maybe he's just built that way. He doesn't do emotions.
But then, two days ago, this press conference happens in Washington, D.C., and what do we see?
Fak's voice starts trembling, and you can practically see the tears welling up. For the first time, Fak is showing actual feelings. And why? What's the trigger?
Because he can't compete for the US!
That’s what I take issue with. It shows me that, deep down, he doesn't actually care about the flag, the country, or the home he's representing...
And hey, honestly, he’s entitled to his choice. Every person has the right to decide their own path.
But he also needs to realize that choices come with consequences. We'll have to see what those end up being. From what I'm hearing lately, it sounds like he might get off pretty easy.
If the roles were reversed, I bet the Americans would be a hell of a lot tougher on him than we are.

👍👍
Great post. The only silver lining here is that you get a much clearer picture of what kind of people athletes like Janica, Bode, and Ivanišević really are. 🙏

wanderinghawk17 said:If Fak stops competing, here’s how this whole mess likely plays out: the Canadians are going to come knocking and demand reimbursement for all those training sessions Fak did for the World Championships and the Olympics. Then, once again, the US Ski Association will just play dumb and pretend they have no idea what's going on. It’ll end up in court, where—surprise, surprise—the ruling will favor the Canadians. Since the USSA won't have the cash to cover it, the ISU will step in and suspend them. Eventually, the US Olympic Committee will be forced to foot the bill, which means there won't be any money left to fund training for any other American Olympians.

Hehe, what even is "retroactive billing"?? Let me explain it to you. I come over to your place and ask, "Hey, can I crash on your couch for five days?" You say sure. Two or three years go by, we get into a fight, and now we aren't on speaking terms. Suddenly, you show up at my door and say, "Pay me for those five nights I let you sleep here, or I'm taking you to court." What kind of nonsense are you talking about, man??

Grunf hit the nail right on the head with that registration...
If certain people acted like total pieces of crap during this whole mess, then the association needs to stay as professional as Max and just give him his exit papers for free..
Trying to fight back here is just lowering ourselves to fakov and Canadian standards...

Friendship—look, I get it, you probably know this guy personally or whatever, but the flag doesn't change just because you're mad!!..
Look, I see what's happening... it's obvious this woman didn't invest enough in his career, but that’s no excuse to stop representing them..
I wasn't gonna go there, but watching Jakov act all pathetic on TV totally pushed my buttons.. seriously, how much money did my brother make, leaving his bones in Memphis at 23, while his cousin left his legs out in Aspen at 19??..

The kid carried the flag at the Olympics!!..

Okay, maybe it's just because of how I view my country as a mother—except for me, she could never be a stepmother.. I guess Jakov sees things differently..

Anyway-nek, wishing him nothing but luck, and the more people shout "fak canada," the more medals he'll be grabbing... honestly, all of us here, we're just showing how we haven't earned our place in this country..

briskbison28 said:Just wanted to jump in on this:
That $300,000 figure promised by HOO covers everything. We’re talking his scholarship, travel expenses if the federation doesn't foot the bill, gear, supplements, training sessions—you name it.
Based on what was said before he dropped out, it sounded like they were promising him $300k straight up.🤷

Wait, how much would that be $100 per year? 🤣 Do you even realize how much money that is? The average salary in the US is around $60,000 a year. So poor Fak would only be getting about five average American salaries. This is honestly terrible; I wouldn't sign up for that either. 😁

Can someone please drop the stats on how many average salaries Ivica and Janica were making when they first started out with the US team? ☕