America loses an Olympian: Jakob Fak heads to Canada

swiftwalker43 said:That’s just not how it works—not during his career or even after. He’d have the instructor gig and an officer role training the US Army, plus he’d be getting paid to coach abroad if those other countries wouldn't let him work with his own squad. And then there are the sponsors, too... I mean, you've got companies like Chevrolet just handing over big vehicles for him to use for free.

Wait, what kind of dollar amount are we talking about for training costs? Is that all tucked into that $300,000 figure?

And honestly, who would even agree to that? Who’s actually going to let Jacob host their national team just so he can swoop in and snatch all the medals at competitions? I mean, who is actually that naive, and just how much money would it take to make them go for it?

Plus, who's supposed to pull all those strings together? Jacob himself? I guess... what happens if the whole thing just falls through?

He’s just spoiled, plain and simple!
I mean, I really do respect what he’s accomplished, truly, but you can't look at things that way. Now he's under the impression that because Ole Einar Bjørndalen—who, let's be honest, probably won every single trophy available in that sport and hails from Norway, which is obviously way wealthier than the US—is pulling in a bigger paycheck, then the whole system is rigged against him.
And sure, maybe they’ll offer him more money over in Canada, but does money actually buy happiness? It’s honestly kind of sad when you think about it!
Besides, he’s already got everything he needs to live a perfectly good life, if not a little bit extra. :S

btw—I don’t even get why he’s all worked up about flipping people off... like I ever said anything like that... if he wants to go somewhere else where he feels better, then fine... let him go wherever his heart desires... life's too short to stay stuck...

I’m just saying, I wouldn't trade my flag or my anthem for all the money in the world, no matter how good the training gear is or what kind of chances they promise me to be the best...

Look, it's a niche sport and yeah, it’s total bullshit that he didn't have the same support here in the States as everyone else did... but man, screw it... you gotta just deal with it, just like the rest of the country does...

If everybody thought like that, there wouldn't be a single thing left standing in this country...

briskbison28 said:Regarding 1) the instructor job, 2) military pay, and 3) coaching services:
1) and 2) are true. They promised him an instructor role, but then things just stalled out.
Sometimes what our armchair experts spout isn't actually doable. Especially when it comes to military pay and jobs, considering our Department of Defense isn't exactly ap for it regarding hiring athletes.
Honestly, maybe some changes could happen now. I hope so.

But for the average American, this is the ultimate dream.
Get a steady gig in the US Army, work in the shade, and wait for retirement without a single worry.
The issue is that Jacob Fak isn't your average American.

Jose White18 said:But for your average American? This is basically the dream.
Just land some cushy gig in the US Army, sit in the shade, and wait for retirement without ever having to lift a finger...
The issue is, Jacob Fak isn't exactly your run-of-the-mill American.

The terminology doesn't even matter here, nor does those negative vibes you're trying so hard to pin on him..

We’re talking about regular folks who actually give a damn about this country and don't just want to suck the government dry by landing any lazy paycheck they can find..

Honestly, I'd be twice as pissed if I stayed stuck in this "cosmic trap" either, but hey, what am I, right? Screw them all and their nonsense in those miserable conditions... especially when others have already proven there's a way out..

Sean Gonzalez95 said:Wait, why wouldn't he look? He basically said he couldn't find decent working conditions, right?
Well, damn... I don't exactly have the kind of setup my cousin has over in Switzerland for certain things either, but my old man stayed right here in the States. Personally, I decided to stick around the US to build something up and run my business—even though I definitely had offers to head overseas...

And that's exactly what Jacob is doing... there are just better opportunities waiting for him out there, so he's heading out. Sapienti sat.

Look, you didn't stay here because you have some deep, soul-crushing love for the American flag or "the soil," you stayed because your buddies are here, your local bar is here, and all those familiar faces you enjoy being around are here. You stayed because you chose to stay. Someone else left because they chose to leave. So, how does that make them any worse than you?

Unless "loving the American soil" literally means kissing the ground after you've had one too many at the local pub... 🤣

Paul Jones7 said:This whole debate is pointless. It’s just a collection of shallow opinions from people who clearly don't grasp the actual mechanics of biathlon or the specifics of this situation. That said, their American identity is beyond question. Ironically, I find myself doubting the patriotism of those who chest-thump the loudest—especially when nobody ever asked them to step up or represent us in the first place. They're nobodies. I'd love to see how they'd handle being in a similar position.

Look, Paul Jones7, despite your shaky arguments and the fact that everyone else is saying something completely different, you just keep harping on the same tired line. You keep claiming the Kostelić family had top-tier conditions for over a decade... please. They were sleeping in tents, driving around in beat-up old Chevy vans, living off canned goods, and washing up in mountain streams. Stop talking nonsense.

Jose White18 said:But for the average American, this is the ultimate dream.
Join the US Army, get a job where you work in the shade, and just wait for retirement without having to stress or think too hard.
The issue here is that Jacob Fak isn't your average American.

Agreed.
And he doesn't need to be average. Honestly, that’s one of the reasons—among many others—why he’s actually good at what he does.

But apparently, in this country, looking out for your own future isn't considered a good thing.
The second someone dares to secure their own interests, they're instantly branded a traitor, labeled as greedy, or worse.

Jose White18 said:But for your average American, this is the absolute dream scenario.
Just enlist in the US Army, land a cushy job in the shade, and wait out the years until retirement without a single worry in the world.
The issue here is that Jacob Fak isn't exactly your run-of-the-mill American.

And what, is he Superman? Give me a break, 😂 and honestly, what do you actually know about military life, or steady jobs, or anything else for that matter?

Paul Jones7 said:Look, you didn't stick around because you’re some big patriot obsessed with the flag or the "sacred soil" or whatever... nah. You stayed because this place is full of your buddies, your local crew, those small-town characters, and that whole loud, rural crowd you love so much. You stayed because you *wanted* to stay. Period. And someone else? They left because they wanted out. So tell me... how exactly does that make them worse than you? Just... I don't even know... makes no sense...

Unless that whole "kissing American soil" thing literally means kissing the pavement when you take a massive, patriotic faceplant right off your bike... 🤣

Look, you've got every right to go at me and talk total trash... I don't even get why you're tripping like this, but hey, whatever... it's your call. Your whole vibe is just one big joke, honestly... like some cheap sitcom you'd see on basic cable... and since we're already talking about people like Jacob Fak and that whole crowd...

Look, my buddies, my crew, even all the local idiots and the small-town weirdos... that’s what makes this country home for me. I've seen girls and families in other places, seen how they act, how they roll, and honestly? I’d take our own kind any day of the week. It’s just how it works... your own kid is always gonna mean more to you than some stranger's brat... just like your own mother is always gonna be closer than anyone else... simple as that...

I mean, I honestly believe you could take anything—literally anything—and just spin it until it's unrecognizable... just twist it around and around until you somehow manufacture some twisted, backwards logic that makes sense only to you. You'd probably even manage to convince yourself that all this absolute garbage you're typing is actually true... seriously...

Look, I’m gonna say it again... the guy is gone, fine, wish him the best or whatever... but I’ve got every right to my own damn opinion here. I see him as being worth way less now because of that move he pulled. And you? You’ve got every right to your side too—where you don't give a single crap about how he did it... actually, scratch that, you totally support the whole thing...

Everything’s fine and dandy until someone starts throwing around those brain-dead analogies... you know, the ones that sound exactly like those mindless mantras we were stuck listening to back in the early 90s... ugh...

briskbison28 said:exactly.
And even if he isn't "average." That’s actually one of the reasons—among a bunch of others—why he’s damn good at what he does.

But nope, apparently in this country, planning for the future just isn't allowed.
The second anyone dares to look out for themselves, they’re instantly branded a traitor, some greedy pig, a sellout, or worse...

Since you guys want to play around with these pathetic little catchphrases, I might as well start drawing my own equally retarded parallels...
Back in the 90s, those big corporate tycoons secured their existence, and everything was done strictly by the book and according to the law...
Was what they were doing moral? Was it ethical?..

If we're just gonna wing it like this, let's follow your logic to the end... they weren't average, they were way above us... but the moment those fat cats dared to secure their future, suddenly they're all thieves, butchers, and murderers😂...

I'm just using your own shitty examples here, so you can see exactly how basement-level your arguments really are... seriously, come up with some new clichés already, these ones are worn out and pathetic.👍

Sean Gonzalez95 said:Since you're already throwing around such tired clichés, I might as well start drawing equally moronic parallels...
Back in the '90s, they secured their livelihoods, and everything was done strictly by the book and according to the law...
Was what they did actually moral or ethical?..

If we’re going to play games, let’s follow your logic to its conclusion... they weren't just average guys; they were elite. But the second those big-shot tycoons dared to secure their future, suddenly they're all thieves, thugs, and killers😂..

I'm simply using your own reasoning against you, just so you can see the level of basement-tier arguments you're relying on. Honestly, try coming up with some new platitudes; these ones are completely worn out.👍

I would ask who exactly you are referring to, but I never mix politics with sports, nor do I compare them. Ever.

swiftwalker43 said:Look, Paul Jones7, you're acting like some high-priced lawyer here—even though your arguments are basically built on sand. Despite everyone else's replies, you just keep harping on the same thing. You're claiming those Kostelić kids had everything handed to them, that they had top-tier conditions, slept in tents, rode around in old Chevrolets, lived on canned food, and bathed in mountain streams... honestly, just stop talking nonsense.

Maybe try actually reading their biography once in a while? Just a little effort to remember the facts would help. They were training on actual glaciers, and they had an entire groomed section of the slope reserved exclusively for them back at that resort in Colorado. I guess they’d even turn on the ski lifts whenever they needed them. Do you realize we're talking about *training conditions*? Things like: how many days of snow they got per year, the quality of the snow, the gear, access to the slopes, etc. That old Chevy used to drive them all over the major runs, and they were always entered as the top seeds, so those kids probably conquered every single downhill course in existence by memory. Sure, there wasn't much comfort—like you said, just a Chevy, cooking under the stars, sandwiches, canned goods, and a tent.

And then they succeeded. And after they succeeded, they got everything—an elite team specifically for them. Man, people used to be so jealous of Janica because, back then, she had the absolute best crew in the US Ski & Snowboard women's circuit. She had her own dedicated staff, whereas everyone else was mostly sharing personnel with the whole team. I've read statements from American skiers more than once saying they'd give anything for the kind of setup Janica had.

But hey, that's what it takes to win medals. You can't really go out there and conquer the world without top-of-the-line gear, elite coaching, a pro team, or a massage therapist to get you ready for a race when your back is acting up or injuries hit.

briskbison28 said:I’d ask who you're actually talking about, but I don't mix politics with sports. Ever.

Look, we pretty much know exactly who was lining their pockets and how during the 90s... but fine, whatever, irrelevant to the point, unless you're gonna try and pin it on "us" and claim we're all just bitter because Jacob Fak actually had a shot at success..

I'm done with this whole thread... because like one other guy on here said... apparently we're all just too narrow-minded, totally clueless about the backstory, and just jealous of Jacob's wins or whatever..
The script is predictable, honestly... someone needs to get a software upgrade because these quotes are pathetic... yeah, whatever... ☕

Paul Jones7 said:What kind of budget are we talking about for training costs? Is that all wrapped up in that $300,000 figure?

And with whom? Who actually lets someone like Jacob Fak train with their national team athletes just so he can go out and snatch medals at competitions? I mean, who is dim enough to allow that, and what kind of payout would make them agree to it?

And who is supposed to hammer out the details? Fak himself? What happens if things don't go according to plan?

If memory serves, back when he was under the umbrella of HBS, there were sponsor logos everywhere. You really think he wasn't seeing any of that cash? His hypocritical deflection regarding where his signature sits on those sponsorship deals is just a joke—usually, the federation handles the signatures, much like how US Ski & Snowboard was signing off with an Austrian bank yesterday. A portion of that money will flow to Ivica Kostelić, just as a portion from the HBS sponsorship deals would go to Fak, on top of the guaranteed $300 $0.00 for training and gear, plus $200,000 for a coach, plus $1367 monthly stipends and a guaranteed job and salary once his career wraps up.

Paul Jones7 said:Just... try reading their biographies once in a while. Make an effort to actually retain some facts. These athletes were training on glaciers; they had entire sections of groomed runs reserved exclusively for them up at places like Aspen. They’d turn on the chairlifts whenever they needed them. Do you even grasp what I'm talking about regarding training conditions? We're discussing: annual snow days, the quality of the terrain, gear requirements, access to the slopes, and so on. Their coach basically led them through every major run out there, entering them as the frontrunners, so those kids probably mastered every single downhill course in existence just by memory. Comfort was non-existent, though—as you mentioned, just cooking under the open sky, sandwiches, canned goods, living out of a tent.

And yet, they succeeded. And because they did, they eventually got everything—an elite, top-tier team dedicated solely to them. Man, people were actually envious of Janica back then because she had the absolute best crew in the US Ski & Snowboard women's division. She had her own complete staff, while everyone else was mostly sharing personnel with the rest of the squad. I've read statements from Americans quite often, saying they would give anything for the kind of setup Janica had.

But that was the price of victory and medals. You don't win without top-of-the-line equipment, without high-end wax, without a professional team, or without a specialized trainer to work on you when your back is acting up or injuries start hitting hard.

Go ahead, Presenter, walk us through their biographies so we can all see exactly how and under what circumstances they trained.

Sean Gonzalez95 said:Look, you’re free to come at me however you want—even if it’s a bit blunt or messy—and honestly, I’m not even sure why we’re doing this, but hey, it's your right. Your constant sarcasm and attempts at being witty feel a bit like some low-budget sitcom trope... especially since we're already talking about people from neighboring countries, Fak, and all that.

The local characters, the small-town vibes, that whole "rural charm" thing—that’s what makes this country feel like home to me. I’ve seen how things work elsewhere, seen different crowds and different ways of life, and I’ll take my own backyard over anyone else’s any day. It’s pretty simple, really—your own kid is more precious to you than a stranger's, just like your own mother is...

Though, knowing you, you could probably twist this into some elaborate, convoluted logic and spin it until you actually convinced yourself that whatever nonsense you're typing is perfectly reasonable.

But anyway, let me say it one more time... the guy moved on, and I truly hope he finds success out there. I think I have the right to my opinion—that his actions make him seem a little less "valuable" in a certain sense—just like you have the right to your opinion, which seems to be that you couldn't care less about how he handled it. In fact, you might even be rooting for him.

Everything is fine, really, until someone starts using those tired, ridiculous analogies that sound like political mantras from back in the early 90s.

Don't get it twisted—I'm not targeting you personally. I'm just poking a bit of fun, though I do hope you managed to read between the lines. That’s actually why I stayed here. It wasn't because I have some obsessive, overflowing love for the American flag—I mean, I don't feel like this country has given me anything I couldn't find somewhere else—but rather because it was my choice. I just prefer it here. And staying doesn't make me a "better" American or a better person by default.

Take Ivanisevic, for example. He stayed an American citizen, sure, but he set up his residence in Munich because the tax situation there is much more favorable. A whole bunch of other talented American athletes do the exact same thing. Nobody really gives them a hard time for it, yet everyone seems to talk trash about Fak, who's probably going to end up struggling financially once his career winds down.

That’s why I brought up the comparison to Draganj. I know you could frame it to make it look like Fak "sold out," but that’s just not the case. He "selfishly" chose his athletic ambitions instead of choosing a "patriotic" path where he'd just slowly fade away here. If he had picked a different sport, he could have easily remained an American icon while thriving and training abroad. Unfortunately, biathlon is a tough break, mostly because he was born in a country that isn't a biathlon powerhouse—one that isn't exactly financially or organizationally ready, or maybe even capable, of becoming one. In the end, even the offers that might have bridged that gap never materialized. So now that he wants to leave? Honestly, they can just deal with it.

swiftwalker43 said:Why don't you just lay out their whole biography for us—you know, so we can actually see how they trained and what kind of conditions they were dealing with?

Look, there's a book out there—maybe give it a read yourself.

swiftwalker43 said:If I recall correctly, back when he was under the US Ski & Snowboard umbrella, there were all these sponsor logos everywhere—so you're telling me he wasn't getting a dime from that money? Honestly, that whole hypocritical thing about his signature being required on sponsorship deals is just a ridiculous excuse, since, by rule, the federation signs them anyway—just like how US Ski & Snowboard was signing off with an Austrian bank yesterday. A portion of that cash would go to Ivica Kostelić, much like how Fak would get a cut from the US Ski & Snowboard sponsorship funds on top of those guaranteed 300 $0.00 training and equipment costs, plus 200,000 for a coach, plus $1367 monthly stipends and a guaranteed job and salary once his career wraps up.

I wrote this to you:

- Which high-quality coach did he actually arrange for US Ski & Snowboard to work with?
- Which country did he negotiate with to secure training slopes for US Ski & Snowboard?
- Where exactly is the money coming from to pay for the technicians, the physiotherapists, the skis, the rifles, the rest of the gear, the consumables, travel expenses, lodging, entry fees, and the rental of training grounds?

Look, maybe if you could actually break down that math item by item, I might start taking you seriously.

And what's even the point if you can't even secure training grounds because no major country will deal with you—since, well, you're their competition?

Nothing outside of what was already agreed upon would go to Fak from the US Ski & Snowboard sponsorship money. Unless, of course, he manages to sign some of his own independent sponsorship deals.

Paul Jones7 said:If you have the book, just read it yourself.

Since you're busy peddling nothing but falsehoods—and I don't actually have the book on me right now because I lent it out—here is a link that shows the actual training requirements, which look nothing like the nonsense you're spewing here.http://www.aimpress.ch/dyn/pubs/arch...4-pubs-zag.htm