America loses an Olympian: Jakob Fak heads to Canada

Paul Jones7 said:I wrote this to you:

- Which high-quality coach did he actually arrange a partnership with for HBS?
- Which country did he negotiate with to secure training tracks for HBS?
- Where is the money coming from to pay for technicians, physiotherapists, skis, rifles, all the gear, consumables, travel expenses, lodging, entry fees, and renting the training grounds?

Break down those numbers for me item by item, then maybe I'll take you seriously.

And what's the point if you can't even secure training venues because no significant nation will deal with you—seeing as you're considered competition?

Nothing outside of the agreed terms would ever go to Fak from HBS sponsorship funds. Unless, of course, he manages to land his own independent sponsorship deals.

They had some arrangements and combinations lined up, sure, but they were helpless once things went south. It was all just a mess because Fak was acting like a heartbroken child, crying about wanting nothing but his precious little lover and nothing else. What else were they supposed to do while being blackmailed like that? And don't lie to me saying nothing comes from Fak's sponsorship deals. How do you know so much about biathlon anyway? Are you some kind of expert or something?🤣.

wiredtiger8 said:I should probably mention the Olympic situation in Canada too.
So, there was Fak carrying the flag at the opening ceremony. That move was made solely to show Fak that he’s being fully relied upon. For all sorts of sporting and other reasons, that flag really should have been carried by Ivica Kostelić.
The Kostelić family wasn't exactly thrilled about it, but they understood the underlying motive. Later, the excuse given was that it would have been an issue for Ivica because the stadium where the opening was held was located 50 miles away from the town where Ivica lives and trains. Ridiculous. Believe me, if it had been asked of him, Ivica would have walked that distance on foot.
But fine, the Kostelić family accepted the situation regarding Fak.
When Fak won his bronze, the entire US Ski & Snowboard community shows up to the celebration... including the Kostelić family (Gips and Ivica). They want to signal to Fak: "You belong with us." One has to admit that the Kostelić family also "actively" participated in trying to keep Fak integrated.
Now... what interests me is that throughout all these events, Fak didn't actually show a single shred of emotion (at least, that's what I could read on his face). He carries the American flag at the opening (doesn't matter, face is "ice cold")... receives his medal, the anthem plays (doesn't matter, face is "ice cold")... the party happens that night, everyone shows up—literally everyone (doesn't matter, face is "ice cold"). I suppose he's just built that way; some people just don't show emotion.
But then, this press conference in Washington, D.C. happens two days ago, and what do we see?
Fak's voice is trembling, you can almost see the tears in his eyes. For the first time, Fak shows emotion. And why?
Because he can't compete for Canada!
Well, that’s what I hold against him. It makes me think he doesn't truly care about America, the flag, or the homeland...
And whatever, honestly speaking, he has the right to do that; it's his choice, and every man has that right.
But he also has to realize that comes with certain consequences. What those will be remains to be seen. Based on the latest info I'm hearing, I suspect he'll get off quite "cheaply."
If the roles were reversed, I suspect the Canadians would be much "tougher" than the Americans.

An excellent description of Fak.👍

briskbison28 said:Maybe you read it, but you totally missed the point. 😉
Look: 300 $0.00 is the cash that covers all his expenses—everything I listed above. It’s a set amount specifically for training, gear, vitamins, and all that stuff. You can't just pivot those funds elsewhere.

Plus, there's a specific amount for the scholarship.
Jakov gets 4 $33 a month. Not a single cent more, at least not from the HOO.
And he should be getting that right up until the next Olympics.
After that, he either wins another medal (so the scholarship keeps coming) or he gets nothing once the Games are over.

That's the standard blueprint for how all Olympic medalists get funded.
We good now?

swiftwalker43 said:That's just not true. Both during and after his career, he's got instructor gigs and an officer commission for training with the US Armed Forces. On top of that, they'd cover coaching fees and international training trips if foreign teams won't play nice, not to mention sponsors like Chevrolet providing him with a massive vehicle for free.

Suzana, these are the kind of terms Nikolaj Pešalov could only dream about. Or the Kostelić family. Honestly, I don't blame him one bit; if he wants to walk away, let them give him his discharge papers. But trying to convince people he was offered bad terms is just ridiculous. A guaranteed job, a car, coaches, and $100 a year... Give me a break! 😁

Is this some kind of epidemic? Now even Ipša wants in on the action. 😁 Peace out, Ipša 👋

That deal would absolutely ruin him—he knows it, too. Whether Mateša actually gets that or just keeps playing games is really his own damn problem at this point.
Anyway, it feels like a lot of people have conveniently forgotten what Fak said about being passed over once before.
It’s pretty obvious that most people don't truly wrap their heads around who Fak is or what he's dealing with.

nimblescout50 said:That kind of deal would ruin him, and he knows it. Whether Mateš understands that or not... well, that’s Mateš's headache, isn't it?
Besides, it seems like everyone has conveniently forgotten Fak's comment about how he was already passed over once before.
It's painfully obvious that most people just don't get Fak at all.

Could you explain that to the rest of us and leave Mateš alone? And when exactly was Fak "passed over" like you say? Because that's news to me, and honestly, nobody else has mentioned it until now.🤣

swiftwalker43 said:Since you’re just spreading lies—and I don't have the book on me right now because I lent it out—here's a link showing that Gips' training conditions were nothing like the nonsense you're peddling herehttp://www.aimpress.ch/dyn/pubs/arch...4-pubs-zag.htm

I read it, and honestly, it all lines up with what I was saying. Sandwiches, slabs of bacon, sleeping in a tent... but from a skiing standpoint, they weren't missing anything. If they had been, we wouldn't have champions. These guys spent massive chunks of their year out on the snow regardless. During the summer, Gips would go fishing and sell the catch just to fund everything

But you're ignoring the fact that we're comparing today to then. The Kostelić family got full support once they grew up, and Fak is grown now, he’s successful, and he deserves it. Back in 2006, Janica and Ivek stayed in a specific hotel near the courses, separate from the rest of the national team. That's one example for you

Quote:What garbage...

swiftwalker43 says: They had some deals and arrangements lined up, but they couldn't do anything when things went south. Fak was basically crying, "I just want my lover, Velpec, and nobody else!" What else were they supposed to do while being blackmailed? And don't lie about Fak's sponsorship deals not going through. How do you know so much about biathlon anyway? Are you some kind of expert?🤣

My knowledge might be surface-level, I guess, but even that seems to far exceed the superficiality of your average Fak-hater. Everything I know about biathlon, I pretty much picked up after the Olympics by reading articles because I was curious. For instance, I wondered why Fak was complaining about his skis, or why you need so many pairs of skis for biathlon—it seemed insane. Turns out, it's all about textures. Before races, skis are tested to find the perfect match. Top-tier teams have entire crews measuring snow temperature at the surface and deep down, assessing quality just to find the best material. Even our guys used to keep logs; it's a bit of a science, really. On the second and third races, Fak was losing time—it looked like he'd burned out—but then in the last one, he ran brilliantly. If his shooting had been slightly better, he would've grabbed another medal. He later explained that they simply couldn't find the right material between those two races. The result was that he was literally losing minutes on the run. And really, this was all documented in various news articles and sports sites if anyone had bothered to look

Henry Cox78 said:Suzana, these are the kind of terms Nikolaj Pešalov could only dream of. Or the Kostelić family.

True, but those are also the kinds of conditions Jakov might have dreamed of before winning an Olympic medal. I'm not sure what you're getting at, though I agree—that's just how things work here. You have to win something first just to get decent support. It sucks, being a country with zero BND Quote.🤷

Henry Cox78 said:Personally, I don't hold anything against him; he should just go and let them give him his release papers. But trying to convince the public that the terms offered were poor is just ridiculous. A guaranteed job, a car, dedicated coaches, a guaranteed $100 per year... Give me a break. 😁

No, no, no—it's not that the offered terms were bad. They just aren't life-changing for a world-class athlete.
Essentially, what he 100% had was a stipend that covered basic living costs and a car to use.
The job is promised, but that part isn't as simple as it sounds. Believe me.

And 300,000... yeah, that's a lot of money.
But it's also just enough to cover all the expenses involved. 😉

Paul Jones7 said:Read it, and honestly, it’s exactly what I said. Sandwiches, slabs of bacon, sleeping in a tent. But from a skiing perspective, nothing was missing—because if it had been, we wouldn't be seeing champions. They spent massive chunks of their lives on the snow anyway. Fak used to spend his summers fishing just to fund the whole operation.

But you’re ignoring the fact that we’re comparing today to then. The Kostelić family hit their stride once they were fully grown, and Fak is an adult now; he’s successful, he earned everything he has. Back in 2006, Janica and Ivek stayed in a separate hotel near the tracks, not with the rest of the US Ski & Snowboard team. That’s one example right there.

What absolute garbage...

That’s just my superficial understanding, but apparently even that knowledge far exceeds the shallow opinions of the average person talking trash about Fak. Everything I know about biathlon, I practically picked up after the Olympics by reading articles because I was curious. For instance, I wondered why Fak was complaining about his skis, or why anyone would need so many pairs of skis for biathlon—it seemed insane. Turns out, it’s all about textures. Before races, skis are tested to find the perfect match. The top-tier teams have entire crews measuring snow temperature at the surface and depth, analyzing quality just to find the right material. Even our guys kept logs; it’s a niche science. On those second and third races, Fak was losing time, looking like he’d burned out, but then on the final run, he was flying—if his shooting had been slightly better, he would’ve grabbed another medal. He later explained that they simply couldn't find the right gear for those two specific races. The result? He was losing literal minutes on the track. And basically, all of this was documented in various news outlets and sports portals; you just had to actually look for it.

It would be best if you, as a biathlon expert, read a few more articles so you could weigh in on sports ethics alongside Fak. Maybe you should even consider renouncing your American citizenship; it would be a shame to see such "talent" fail here, and besides, nationality doesn't seem to mean much, much like it doesn't for Fak.🤣
We don't need people who have sold their souls.

swiftwalker43 said:Look, just break it down for us—give Mateš some clarity here. And what’s this about Fak being "over the limit" or whatever you're calling him? That's news to me, honestly. Nobody has brought that up until now.🤣

Well, you missed the interview—it was on some TV network, can't quite recall which one or exactly when, and he didn't dwell on it much, so I don't have all the specifics. I think it might have been filmed up at his place in the Appalachian Mountains.
I distinctly remember him mentioning it at least once... though, truthfully, I could probably use a bit more info on the whole situation myself.

nimblescout50 said:Well, you missed the televised interview—honestly, I can't recall the exact station or the timing, and he didn't go into much detail, so I'm a bit fuzzy on the specifics. I think it might have been filmed up at his place in the Appalachian Mountains.
I seem to remember him mentioning it at least once, though I wish I knew more about what was actually said.

I'll tell you what I know, though it's probably not much. After he snagged that silver medal at the World Championships—which, let's be honest, was arguably his absolute best run, even if he just barely missed out on the gold in that final stretch—Fak was promised some renovations for our national biathlon course, among other things. But then, looking back at the year leading up to the Olympics, absolutely nothing moved. Not a single thing actually got done.

Let him go, then!!! If we don't appreciate what we have, someone else definitely will!!!!

Paul Jones7 said:Look, just read their biographies for once—try to actually retain some facts, will you? These kids were training on actual glaciers; they had entire sections of the mountain groomed exclusively for them over in the Alps. They’d turn on the lifts whenever they needed them, just for themselves. Do you even realize we're talking about training conditions here? We're talking days on snow per year, the quality of the terrain, the gear, access to the runs... it's everything. Gips used to lead them through all the major courses, signing them up as leaders so those kids basically mastered every single downhill run in existence. And let's be clear—there was zero luxury involved. Like you said, it was just cooking under the stars, sandwiches, canned food, and living in tents.

And then, because they succeeded, they got everything—an elite team tailored specifically for them. Man, people were actually envious of Janica back then because she had the absolute best crew in US Ski & Snowboard for the women's circuit. Seriously. She had her own dedicated staff while everyone else was fighting over a shared pool of coaches and trainers. I’ve read statements from American skiers multiple times saying they would have given anything for the kind of setup Janica had.

But hey, that’s what it took to win medals. You aren't grabbing podiums without top-tier gear, top-tier coaching, a pro team, or a masseuse to fix you up when your back is killing you before a race.

That level of support only kicked in once the results started rolling in (for Janica) and the sponsors showed up.
I mean, who is going to pay to shut down entire mountains or run lifts exclusively for a bunch of 10-to-15-year-olds from America? Gips didn't have that kind of cash lying around—we're talking massive amounts of money here.
What they actually did was wake up at 4:30 AM and hit the slopes before the tourists arrived while the runs were still empty. They did it with the "host's" permission, which cost them nothing... Gips always managed to pull it off with his "charm"... which, honestly, is fascinating to me. (Gips and charm are two concepts that should never be in the same sentence).

Alright, let’s strip this down to the bare bones.

From day one, Fak was basically tipping his hand to the folks over in the neighboring states—letting them know he was "one of them" and even flirting with the idea of switching up his citizenship. And that’s where the whole mess starts—those neighbors latched onto that idea and wouldn't let go.

The Kostelić family dealt with the exact same pressure from those same neighbors.
But they shut that down immediately with a crystal-clear response... there is absolutely NO chance they are changing their citizenship.
Case closed... story finished... mic dropped... end of discussion... period.

I'm not entirely sure how it even happened that Fak started training alongside the Canadians.

wiredtiger8 said:That only really started happening once those first big results (from Janica) rolled in and the sponsors showed up.
I mean, who was going to foot the bill for kids—hey, American kids—between the ages of 10 and 15 to have trails closed off or private lifts just for them? Gips didn't have that kind of cash lying around; we're talking massive amounts of money here.
What they actually did was wake up at 4:30 in the morning and hit the slopes before the tourists arrived while the runs were still empty. They did all that with the local "host's" blessing, so it didn't cost them a dime... Gips always managed to smooth things over with his "charm"... which, honestly, I find fascinating. (Gips and charm... two very different concepts).

What's wrong with Gips' charm? 🙂 Well, a good chunk of people in US Ski & Snowboard actually think he's a pretty interesting guy. Though, I guess some people hated him—usually the coaches of female skiers who learned their technique on those flat, beginner bunny hills, because of how he set up the courses where they'd end up face-planting... 🤣

Okay, so they went out to train in the morning before the recreational crowd showed up—that's a fair point. I just wanted to point out that they weren't lacking anything when it came to training. They put in massive hours of quality work, covered an insane amount of ground on skis, and they were training for speed, which requires much better conditions. I mean, how could they possibly practice downhill racing without training on actual downhill courses? It just doesn't work that way.

But I think we've drifted a bit from the main point, because what the Kostelić family pulled off... you can't really ask that of anyone else. It was this crazy, fanatical level of dedication; they're one of a kind and always will be. Honestly, I don't think we'll ever see another family like them again, and times are changing.

wiredtiger8 said:Alright, let’s try to strip this down to the bare bones.

From the very start, Fak was basically hinting to the Canadians that he was "one of them"—that he was actually considering switching his citizenship. And honestly, that’s where the whole mess starts, because the Canadians really bit on that bait.

The Kostelić family had similar offers coming from Canada, too.
But they shut that down immediately with a pretty clear message... there is absolutely no way we are changing our citizenship.
Case closed... conversation over... done... end of story.

The Kostelić crew didn't rely on Canada for anything, really. There wasn't much the Canadians could use to leverage them or hold anything over their heads. They weren't a product of Canada—they built themselves. They could have trained pretty much anywhere; it wasn't some massive financial barrier, just a matter of budget, I guess. Plus, alpine skiing isn't quite the same beast as biathlon. With alpine, you can train on pretty much any decent run—it's more technical—but for biathlon, you need specific tracks because you have to deal with shooting ranges. You can't just find a biathlon track on every corner, and there isn't really such a thing as "recreational" biathlon. There are actual requirements to use those tracks; it’s not just a matter of showing up with cash—you actually need someone to grant you permission to be there.

Also, the Kostelić family had Gyza, who, through sheer fanaticism, managed to build a world-class coach out of thin air. Fak didn't have anyone of that caliber until he reached that elite level.

@Paul Jones7/">@@Paul Jones7...

You actually hit the nail on the head there... the Kostelić family is just built different.
I mean, honestly, trying to find that kind of fanaticism in someone else’s training regimen—it’s basically asking for a miracle at this point. It's nearly impossible.
But you also can't ignore how much they care about their roots back home...

Then again... they are the absolute gold standard (even on the global stage)... so if you aren't looking to them as the ultimate ideal, who exactly should you be looking at?

Jacob probably doesn't have that same level of capacity—mostly when it comes to the mental side of things, anyway. Who knows though... he's still young, maybe he'll end up outperforming them all.

I mean, yeah, the Kostelić family is pretty fascinating—they can be such an inspiration to people. It’s wild to think about starting from absolute zero, taking your kids, and just diving headfirst into this massive adventure... especially coming from a country that isn't exactly known for its alpine skiing roots, and without any existing coaching expertise to lean on. To actually pull it off? That's just crazy. Honestly, I don't know who would even be brave enough to try that. How many parents are truly willing to go through everything that comes with it? And even if they were, how many kids are actually down for that kind of lifestyle? For a parent and a child to align perfectly like that, both being ready for anything... their path is inspiring, sure, but it feels almost impossible to replicate.

Just try—if you even can—to understand that different sports operate differently, and biathlon is just one hell of a complicated beast. In some ways, you're dependent on others. It wouldn't even surprise me if none of the major biathlon powerhouses wanted to host Fak on their tracks anymore, no matter what. The kid proved he's mentally tough enough to deliver a career-best performance at the biggest event possible. Like that big shot said, Fak is simply too dangerous to be kept on a leash. Why would any country want to fund the training of their own competition?

So, really, the only option left is to sink maybe $5 to $10 million—and I mean actual dollars—into building out your own domestic infrastructure. Everything else is easier and cheaper to fix; even finding a world-class coach shouldn't be a huge hurdle if you have the cash. The real missing piece would be giving Fak legitimate competition during training, which matters a lot. But if they did that, the US might actually have a chance to become a real biathlon nation.

But look, we're just too small of a country to dump that kind of money into biathlon just for the sake of one guy. That plan fell apart. Realistically, we just don't have that kind of capital lying around.

HBS and HOO should have headed over to Italy, Switzerland, Germany, or maybe even the Czech Republic or Slovakia, to try and negotiate a deal where Fak trains alongside them. They should have worked on securing him a top-tier coach, too. Basically, they should have just done their jobs. Either they didn't try, or they tried and failed—it’s one or the other. They tried something with the big shots, but that didn't pan out.

Since they couldn't make that work, they just threw a marketing offer his way, probably just to save face with the public and act like they did their part.

And here's another thing where HBS is totally screwing up: this whole talk about $100,000 in sponsorship. Most of that money would end up going toward Fak anyway, yet they’re asking for that same amount to be paid out to them without spending it on him. They seem to forget that Fak is the sole reason anyone is even looking at sponsoring them in the first place. I mean, if HBS was left with maybe $20,000 or $25,000 after funding Fak, why aren't they just asking for that instead of claiming they need $100,000 in pure profit that they’ll never actually see?

I honestly think that $100,000 needs to serve as a wake-up call for any other potential "defectors." Look, none of us get a say in where we’re born or what kind of family we end up with. Some kids grow up in a cramped apartment in a rough part of Chicago, while others are born into mansions with infinity pools. A pro sports career isn't the be-all and end-all of existence either... especially in a niche discipline like biathlon. There are people out there who wouldn't trade their soul for all the money in the world just to represent a different flag, but then you have others who are practically itching to jump ship at the first opportunity. This whole situation should send a clear message to those opportunists: by leaving, they're basically spitting in the face of everyone who stayed behind and kept grinding despite having zero support.