America loses an Olympian: Jakob Fak heads to Canada

swiftwalker43 said:Why don't you just list all the sports you played professionally—you know, since you're clearly such an expert on everything else?!

I mean, why would I even bother saying that? It doesn't have anything to do with what we're actually talking about, and honestly, it hasn't even crossed my mind.

Paul Jones7 is absolutely tearing him apart in this debate.
What’s even the point of dismantling an argument when this guy just doesn't get it... 🤷

Paul Jones7 said:but this honestly has nothing to do with the debate about Fak

Agreed... so we aren't going to touch that 👍

Paul Jones7 said:yeah, you can. you just don't get what success actually looks like. typical armchair critic bullshit

How many individual Olympic medalists does America have since gaining independence?

Maybe ten?

Look, I'm not downplaying his success... he's one of those rare guys who actually lived the dream and already hit the peak of his career. On that level, sure... he's had—or will have—a successful career. And I'm hoping it WILL BE a successful career, not "WAS."

But looking at the big picture, I personally can't call his run "successful" just yet... it was more like a flash in the pan 🤷 🤷
We're talking about a window of maybe one or two years here... it's way too early for me to label a career as successful 🤷

Same goes for Ud, those karate fighters... and that whole crew 🤷
They're all heroes to us, and massive respect to them for making something out of nothing... but you can't seriously tell me a career is "successful" based on one gold medal won by a 17-year-old. 🤷

Paul Jones7 said:Why on earth would I bring that up? It has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about, and frankly, it hasn't even crossed my mind.

Look, you actually do have a connection here. You're rambling on about athletic standards and training facilities like some armchair expert, which is relevant enough. I spent nearly fourteen years in serious athletics before I had to head overseas for work when things kicked off back home—two years with dragovoljac karate, three and a half years swimming, and eight years playing for a water polo team.

Anthony Perez55 said:Paul Jones7 is just tearing you apart in this debate.
What’s even the point of dismantling an argument when the guy clearly doesn't get it anyway? 🤷

Oh, sure. 😂 I just absolutely love armchair experts. Why don't you enlighten me... what exactly were those "arguments" supposed to be?

Jesus... when will you people finally realize that Fak is an issue for all of us in the States?
Seriously, why don't we talk about Blaž Cof, the whitewater kayaker, and look at the actual financial hurdles he’s facing?
But that doesn't interest you, does it? You're only interested in Fak. It seems like Fak is the golden era for America, and nobody cares if there are problems elsewhere.
I suppose we should just start opening threads for every single Janez who got screwed over by those wicked Americans.

What’s actually the issue here? I’m reading all these comments about how Fak is just fishing for funding, but what exactly should he be doing differently? Who has actually stepped up to invest in him until now? Should he really walk away from his sport right at the peak of his career just because our national federation is debating whether he's worth the investment?

Should he just retire like Nika Fleiss and those other skiers did? If our people aren't willing to back him, then they should just let him go and leave it at that.

Let’s draw a parallel with soccer. Look at how much money goes into our local clubs, and then look at who actually makes the US National Team today. Should we stop supporting our domestic clubs just because the "good" players move overseas?

Who was backing Janica and Ivica when they were starting out? And what about the situation with miran Jukić?
It seems like we face this exact same problem constantly. Personally, I would put money into someone who is guaranteed to bring home medals in the next few major championships, and not into everyone else. Of course, if anyone dares to disagree, they immediately start bringing up the whole "patriotism" argument...

Michael Diaz said:Look, I'm not trying to downplay what he's done... he's one of those rare people who actually lives out their dream, and honestly, he's already hit a massive peak. From that angle, sure... he's had—or will have—a successful career. I'm just hoping we can say "will have" instead of "had."

But if you look at the big picture, I just can't personally call his career "successful" yet... it was more like a brief flash in the pan 🤷 🤷
We’re talking about maybe a year or two here... it feels way too early for me to label a whole career as a success, you know? 🤷

It's the same thing with Ud, those karate fighters... and that whole crew 🤷
They’re all our heroes, and I mean it when I say they deserve respect for building something out of nothing... but you can't really tell me a career is a success just because some kid won an award at seventeen. 🤷

If you look at how many active athletes there are for every one person who actually walks away with a medal, that's the real success. I get where you're coming from, but trying to value someone's entire career right when it's starting is kind of pointless, isn't it? It doesn't make much sense. I think even Gips mentioned once that medals only count once the career is over, not while you're still in the middle of it. Anyway, I guess we're drifting off topic. Honestly, I usually tend to step away from these threads once I feel like I've said my piece—more or less—because there's no point in just recycling the same arguments.

@Ashley Johnson6: thanks. I know it doesn't matter to everyone, but I figured I'd jump in to keep the discussion healthy. I felt like I needed to bring up the other side of things since it seemed like some key facts were being overlooked. If anyone wants a broader perspective, there it is—even if it sounds a bit outsider-ish. If not, well, whatever.

Paul Jones7 said:If you take a look at how many active athletes are standing next to just one person who actually managed to snag a medal, that’s what real success looks like. I get where you're coming from, but honestly, trying to put a value on someone's career when they're still just starting out is pretty pointless. Doesn't make much sense, really. I think even Gips mentioned once that medals are counted only after a career is over, not while it's still in progress. Anyway, we've drifted away from the main point here. Personally, I tend to wander off-topic quite often because I feel like I've said everything I had to say, more or less, and there's no sense in just recycling the same old arguments.

@Ashley Johnson6: thanks. I suppose it doesn't matter much for some people, but I jumped in just to keep the debate healthy. I felt a need to present the other side since I noticed certain key facts were being ignored. It was necessary to see the whole picture. Those who want to see the broader perspective can now, even if it feels a bit outsider-ish, and for those who don't... well, whatever.

What "other sides"? Who even are you, Velepac?😍

swiftwalker43 said:Oh, please 😂 I just love talking to armchair experts—why don't you enlighten us with those "arguments" of yours?!

I'm not even going to bother arguing with you... I learned a long time ago that there's no point talking to a brick wall.
And that whole bit about the armchair critics... You sound just like that big-shot police chief Vitomir bijeliš when he told Togonal on a local news broadcast:

"Look, please, I'm the Chief of Police and he's just some regular citizen, so just explain to him that I'm right." 🤣
🙂
that’s basically the vibe here...

Anthony Perez55 said:I have zero intention of getting into an argument with you. I learned long ago that there is no point trying to reason with a brick wall.
And this whole armchair expert routine... You sound just like that Chief of Police, Vitomir bijeliti, when he told Togonal during that live broadcast:

"For heaven's sake, look, I am the Chief of Police and he is just some ordinary citizen—could someone please explain to him that I am right?" 🤣
🙂
That's pretty much the level of discourse we're dealing with here.

slobodno odlepršati😍

I honestly don't get why Americans on this thread are still obsessing over problems in Canada🤷 I’m all for the romance between Fak and Velepac. Let them be happy together😍

Andrew Chase31 said:"America sees all kinds of miracles, but can't find enough rope for all these jerks." (A.G. Matoš)

Found some rope for you right here.🙂

Roger Ward3 said:Here, I found a little something just for you🙂

Top-tier humor. You should audition for a role in the world of Bibb 🤣

So, you're telling me I'm supposed to lose sleep over some guy who’s dead set on playing for Canada instead of his own home, even if it means effectively ending his career? Give me a break...

He chose Canada over his own country. Look, he can do whatever he wants—that's his right—but don't expect me to view him as some kind of sports hero. That's my final word on it.

Michael Diaz said:I might be being unfair here, but he’s been screwed over twice already, so I guess that makes him one of the good ones. 🤷 🤷

How many medals does one actually need to win before hitting that magical threshold where everyone just starts talking trash?
No, you aren't being unfair; you just don't have all the facts yet.
Maybe I was a little harsh just now...

Paul Jones7 said:How many individual Olympic medalists has America produced since gaining independence?
Roughly ten?

Ten from the summer games and ten from the winter ones. 😉

Look, it’s not really about whether he becomes some legendary sports icon—most people probably won't care enough to follow his career or celebrate his wins, which is just how it goes, I guess. I was just trying to wrap my head around the human side of it... why he actually made the call. Unlike, say, when Dragan tried something similar, it feels like this guy actually had some substantial, heavy-duty reasons for making the leap. If we don't respect someone's drive to succeed in sports, then I suppose we aren't really respecting anyone's ambition at all, are we?

briskbison28 said:ten from the Summer Games and ten from the Winter Games...😉

Those are just the medals—the number of individual winners is actually even lower... if I'm counting right...

Winter: Janica and Ivica Kostelić, Jacob Fak

Summer: Goran Ivanisevic, Goran Prpic (partnered with Ivanisevic), Ivan Ljubicic and Mario Ancic (as a pair), Nikolay Peshalov, Duje Draganja, Sinisa and Niksa Skelin, Snjezana Pejcic, Filip Ude, Martina Zubcic, Sandra Saric, and Blanka Vlasic

So, that's 13 from the Summer Olympics and 3 from the Winter ones—giving us 16 unique winners total, I think.

Paul Jones7 said:those are the medals; there are even fewer for individual winners...

Oops, you're right; I was counting by specific sports. 😁
(Does anyone know if the Skelins' medals were individual or team awards?) 😬

Paul Jones7 said:But that’s not really my point. Most people definitely won't see him as some kind of sports hero, nor will they naturally follow his career or cheer for his wins. I was just trying to understand the human side of it—why he made this choice. Unlike, say, when Dragging tried something similar, it feels like he actually has solid, weighty reasons for making this move. If we don't respect someone's athletic ambition, then we aren't really respecting any kind of human ambition, are we?

I get what you're getting at with this whole thread, but honestly, it feels a bit pointless. The guy has every right to leave for whatever reason he chooses. He’s a free man, an individual. He could decide to represent the United Kingdom just because he loves smog and rain and thinks New York City is the ultimate "place to be." The specific reason doesn't really matter; if it's enough to make him set sail, then good for him.

The bottom line is he no longer wants to compete for America. That's where the story ends. No one really cares about his specific motivations. And to make matters worse, he's chosen Canada—a place most Americans don't have a particularly glowing opinion of anyway. In doing this, he stops being an American sports hero to the people who used to view him as one (basically, those who don't usually follow biathlon), and instead starts competing for the Canadians. He's going so far that he'd rather end his career entirely than represent America. Decisions like this come with a certain level of backlash from your own people, and anyone who makes a call like this needs to be prepared for that negative feedback and strong enough to handle it. All his crying and whining in the media isn't going to change anything. You made a choice, and at the end of the day, that is YOUR choice. Be a man, grow a pair, and own it.

briskbison28 said:Oops, yeah, you’re totally right there; I was counting them by individual sports. 😁
(quick side note—are the Skelin brothers' medals considered individual or team ones?) 😬

That's a fair question, honestly—kind of like asking about Ančić or Ljubičić, or even Ivanisevic and Prpić. I ended up grouping them under individual awards since they aren't exactly team sports, though, I don't know, I'm no genius... just a half-baked collection of thoughts, I guess. 😳