F1: Then vs. Now

Ilmor was basically just a hunk of rusty scrap metal, yet these guys somehow managed to turn it into pure gold 😁

Here’s the garbage your Wikipedia feeds you. That McLaren Hakkinen used to stack up those titles ran on Ilmor engines—which were funded by Mercedes, sure. But not a single damn bolt from those engines ever touched a Mercedes factory. Basically, every last screw was built at Ilmor.

Just like that IndyCar engine that absolutely crushed it back in 1994.

When did Honda ever build anything even remotely close to that?!

Back on October 28th, we saw Mercedes-Benz and McLaren announce their big new Formula One partnership. This whole deal was essentially cooked up by Mercedes motorsport manager Norbert Haug and McLaren's own Ron Dennis. By that point, it was pretty obvious to Mercedes that Sauber simply didn't have the resources to win in Formula One. On the other side, Ron Dennis was getting fed up with his engine supplier, Chevrolet—mostly due to the absolutely ridiculous amount of engine failures they were seeing throughout the 1994 season.

It also became apparent that Ilmor and Mercedes needed to head back to the drawing board if they wanted to build an engine capable of winning a Grand Prix with the reduction of the Formula One engine capacity to 3 Liters. What they eventually rolled out was the V10 Engine.

http://atlasf1.autosport.com/2001/jan03/tytler.html

I'm never stepping foot back on this forum sober—it's nothing but a headache

Peace out

ruggedhawk20, you actually pulled it off 👍

Look, at the end of the day, we're still talking about an Ilmor engine—which was basically a joke until Mercedes came along and bought them out 👍

ruggedhawk20 said:Anthony, don't embarrass yourself

Honestly, the only one looking ridiculous here is you... maybe go grab a drink and take a breather so you can settle down a bit...
☕

Sent from my iPad.

silvercobra68 said:You guys are acting like absolute children. You don't understand anything. Formula 1 is moving forward, not backward. If you want vintage racing, there’s plenty of it—you’ve got the Silverstone classics, the Jim Clark memorial at Hockenheim, the traditional Monza races, or those classic Saturday morning sprints before the 24 Hours of Daytona. Watch those instead of whining about bringing the past back to F1.

But obviously, F1 is something else entirely. F1 is supposed to be cutting-edge technology—the kind of stuff that leaves you breathless when you see it. Just like it was thirty years ago. All those technical solutions you keep mentioning were actually the peak of technology back in their day.

And now, let's finally bust another myth. It isn't true that F1 was "better" back then than it is today. It wasn't better, and it wasn't worse; it was just different. Some things were worse, some were better. Let's break it down;

The 60s
1) Drivers had to drive with massive margins because the cars were fragile, and frankly, because they were terrified. People were dying back then.

2) There were no TV broadcasts and no onboard cameras (unless you count the footage from Frankenheimer’s *Grand Prix* film).

3) On the grid, you had about ten professionals and about ten amateurs—people like Guy Ligier, who was a hockey player, or even more unconventional types like Michael Parkes, who clawed his way into a seat after spending years as a Ferrari engineer.

4) Sometimes those amateurs were actually quite talented, like von Trips or the son of a pharmaceutical tycoon, Joakim Bonnier, who actually managed to snag a couple of Grand Prix wins.

5) The performance gaps between cars were massive. Races would end with only two or three cars in the same lap, while everyone else was two or more laps down. How can you expect any unpredictability? Critics would say the only real uncertainty was whether the Lotus would hold together; if it did, they’d win, if not, it would be a Brabham driver or someone like that—rarely some random guy.

The 70s

1) "Safety" becomes the main topic. After losing about fifty colleagues in the previous decade, drivers started striking, complaining, and boycotting races more frequently.

2) TV coverage still isn't really a thing, or if it is, it's just highlights on Sunday night or sometimes even Monday.

3) Drivers are still driving conservatively, even though wings and slicks made driving much easier. Overtaking happens, but not nearly as much as we imagine. There were a few fun drivers like Peterson or Villeneuve—but honestly, nothing more exciting than Hamilton.

4) The number of wealthy trust-fund kids grows, and some of them even take championships—one before the Nürburgring barbecue era, one after. During the barbecue year, the title goes to none other than a playboy.

The 80s

1) Politics. The war between the FIA and FOCA.

2) After a lull, the "Ecclestone-ization" of the sport begins.

3) A lot of races boil down to fuel management. McLaren dominates in '84 and '85 simply because they are the most efficient, while Brabham struggles. Prost takes his third title. And Piquet gets three too. Hmm... leaves a big question mark over the quality of the drivers.

4) We have TV coverage now. Murray does wonders, which is great, but we don't hear Murray; we hear some guy with a monotonous voice, saying "Piquet first, Prost second..."

So, that's how it was. If there are any more questions, just ask.

Okay, but what kind of "progress" are we actually talking about here? Rivers shape their course over millions of years—unless some human factor steps in to create an artificial flow. It's the same thing with today's cars. Development isn't following some natural evolution; instead, every scrap of available knowledge is being squeezed out (within the rules, obviously) just to build faster, more aggressive machines.

That's why we end up with these ridiculous cars covered in all sorts of spoilers and wings... even though we all know a car could practically hit the track without a front or rear wing and still stay glued to the pavement. So why bother with the wings if they're essentially redundant? Plus, from a safety standpoint, it's kind of impractical—no matter how sturdy they claim these things are, pieces still break off or hang loose, which just leads to more chaos.

This is just one example, really; I could probably write a hundred pages on this. How can you call it progress when, throughout history, the cars have actually regressed to specs used a decade prior?

If the cars were becoming too risky and draining the drivers, then the move should have been to shrink the engine size while still allowing for maximum development.

cosmiccyclist8 said:Okay, but what kind of "progress" are we actually talking about here? Rivers shape their course over millions of years—unless some human factor steps in to create an artificial flow. It's the same thing with today's cars. Development isn't following some natural evolution; instead, every scrap of available knowledge is being squeezed out (within the rules, obviously) just to build faster, more aggressive machines.

That's why we end up with these ridiculous cars covered in all sorts of spoilers and wings... even though we all know a car could practically hit the track without a front or rear wing and still stay glued to the pavement. So why bother with the wings if they're essentially redundant? Plus, from a safety standpoint, it's kind of impractical—no matter how sturdy they claim these things are, pieces still break off or hang loose, which just leads to more chaos.

This is just one example, really; I could probably write a hundred pages on this. How can you call it progress when, throughout history, the cars have actually regressed to specs used a decade prior?

If the cars were becoming too risky and draining the drivers, then the move should have been to shrink the engine size while still allowing for maximum development.

You're totally off base regarding the whole river thing, but I think I get the gist of what you're getting at.

Once again, they won't amount to much with those electronic gearboxes and clutches... just like how they won't ever measure up to real F1, rather than these glorified gadgets... 😢

Sent from my iPhone.

electricmaker40 said:Once again, they won't amount to much with those electronic gearboxes and clutches... just like how they won't ever measure up to real F1, rather than these glorified gadgets... 😢

Sent from my iPhone.

Look, F1 is about moving forward, not backward. Besides—your logic is totally broken. If you're seriously pushing for manual gearboxes and old-school clutches, why aren't you demanding carburetors, aluminum chassis, lawnmower engines, and leather helmets too?

Can you even see how nonsensical you're being?!

ruggedhawk20 said:Look, F1 is about moving forward, not backward. Besides—your logic is totally broken. If you're seriously pushing for manual gearboxes and old-school clutches, why aren't you demanding carburetors, aluminum chassis, lawnmower engines, and leather helmets too?

Can you even see how nonsensical you're being?!

Here’s the logic: your ideas focus entirely on technology rather than the actual skill required for a driver to handle the car!

Just to give you a quick heads-up on all the tech that's actually banned:
- traction control
- MASS damper
- FRIC
- active yaw control
- blown diffusers (exhaust & fan)
- 6 wheels
- 4wd
- special materials in engines (MMC, Br, Ti, etc)
and so on

Are you still insisting that F1 is purely an endless march of technological progress?
Honestly, you'll find more advanced tech in GT racing vehicles right now than you will in F1! 😢

Sent from my iPhone.

Maybe toss a comment in with the link? Some of us are banned for life from Autosport—so what's the point of even posting it?

ruggedhawk20 said:Maybe toss a comment in with the link? Some of us are banned for life from Autosport—so what's the point of even posting it?

Well, who's really to blame here... me or you? 😁

Sent from my iPhone.

ruggedhawk20 said:Maybe toss a comment in with the link? Some of us are banned for life from Autosport—so what's the point of even posting it?

🤦

You never cease to amaze me. What exactly would they have to do to get you skinned alive? Luckily, my imagination is limitless, so I'll just come up with something myself. 😉

Formula 1 race joins Singapore Grand Prix bill a lineup of 20 iconic Formula 1 cars will race on the 2014 Singapore Grand Prix. It will be the first time motor racing fans in Singapore will see such classic cars race in action. F1 cars to race under Singapore's lights just like their modern counterparts and fans can look forward to the thrilling spectacle of racing history set against the Singapore skyline. The Singapore event will be the second time this season that the classic F1 cars have joined. Masters GP field have been part of the Canadian GP support package in Montreal last month.

Get ready, because a lineup of 20 iconic Formula 1 cars is joining the 2014 Singapore Grand Prix support bill this season!

The FIA Masters Historic F1 Championship and Masters GP are joining forces to put together an incredible, hand-picked lineup of cars from the 70s and 80s. We’re talking about those legendary three-liter engine beasts, all decked out in their iconic, original liveries.

Ron Maydon, who is President and founder of the Masters series, is confident these cars will be a fantastic addition to the racing excitement at the Marina Bay track in September.

"It'll be the first time motor racing fans in Singapore get to see these legendary classic cars actually tearing up the track," he remarked.

We’re certain fans will love soaking up the sights and sounds of this high-speed history lesson just as much as they do cheering on today's F1 superstars.

Singapore GP deputy chairman Colin Syn thinks the city skyline and the night racing atmosphere will make this a truly captivating spectacle.

"The Masters series is a fantastic addition to our support race lineup," he noted.

We’re thrilled to handpick a selection of legendary historic F1 cars to tear up the track under the Singapore lights. Much like today's drivers, fans can gear up for a breathtaking display of racing history framed perfectly by the stunning Singapore skyline.

The Singapore event will be the second time this season that those classic F1 cars have joined a Grand Prix bill, following the Masters GP field's appearance as part of the Canadian GP support package in Montreal last month.

I was really drawn in by this beautiful photo; it features a lineup of Fitipaldi, Alfa Romeo, and Williams cars—all absolute gems from the 80s.I'm really not feeling it today—the thought of grinding through all those downloads, uploads, and technical chores is just exhausting.

nekad: At the Mexican GP, Berger reported wheelspin in 6th gear at 214 miles/h

sad: 😢

So I’m scrolling through this specialized F1 site in English, and they’re claiming the pre-race era was never more exciting than it was back then,

I’ll just paste it here: Another truth is, Murray Walker actually made IT more interesting !!!

F1 really hit its peak aesthetic during that 1994 to 1997 stretch; those cars were easily the most beautiful ever built...

It used to be that I could feel the pressure change whenever the wind picked up, but lately... 🙂