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Home › Sports › Formula 1 › Bahrain Grand Prix (Outer Loop) | December 4-6, 2020

Bahrain Grand Prix (Outer Loop) | December 4-6, 2020

Started by Gregory Brown94 · · 👁 43 views · 738 replies

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Participants Gregory Brown94wiredfalcon2wiredseal7John Ortiz4graniteharbor502Jason Campbell70mellowtiger83ruggedscout76shadowmarlin22fadedwalker18Alex Barnes93Kenneth Cruz67vividwalker13Raymond Anderson4James Harris34ruggedhawk20gentlemoose57Linda Peterson43stormybadger8Nicholas Newman2darkmarlin16Dana Murphy4Casey Hill57cosmicstag16 …
ruggedhawk20 ruggedhawk20 Regular
509 messages
joined Sep 2014
#115 ·
David Lewis24 said:Man, I honestly feel for the guy. Maybe the only way to make it up to dear Russell is if they actually pick him up as a driver next season.

George Russell did all he could at Mercedes-Benz.

He was brought in solely to prove that anyone can win in a Mercedes-Benz—not just some fake GOAT.

When he didn't play ball, they screwed him over. In the most obvious way possible.

By handing him the wrong tires.

Yeah, right.

At least Flavio Briatore kept things interesting back during Singapore 2008, whereas Toto Wolff is just playing us for fools.

And he's been doing it for seven years straight.
mellowtiger83 mellowtiger83 Regular
466 messages
joined Aug 2014
#115 ·
ruggedhawk20 said:You already got the list on the last page.

Fine, here it is again

Alain Prost 1986
Senna 1991
Michael Schumacher 1995

Titles won in cars that weren't the absolute best.

Are you implying the 1994 Benetton was the superior car? Because that year isn't even on your list.
Linda Peterson43 Linda Peterson43 Active Member
100 messages
joined Mar 2018
#116 ·
graniteharbor502 said:I suppose I could have been a Formula 1 driver myself...
What remains undeniably apparent is that any driver placed in a Mercedes-Benz would likely find themselves at the very top of the standings. If there was ever a moment of ambiguity regarding that fact, I believe it has now become perfectly clear to everyone.


Don't be like that... Lewis Hamilton is a complete alien... he'd probably be grabbing podiums even in a Williams Racing car 🙂
Dana Murphy4 Dana Murphy4 Active Member
50 messages
joined May 2011
#116 ·
It feels like such a circus over at Mercedes-Benz right now, I guess.
ruggedhawk20 ruggedhawk20 Regular
509 messages
joined Sep 2014
#116 ·
Gary Palmer8 said:If it looks like junk and smells like junk—well, there's a pretty good chance it actually is junk! — I learned that the hard way when my old Ford broke down in the middle of nowhere last summer. 😁

If there hasn't been a single shred of evidence found in 26 years—then there isn't any. Period.
wiredfalcon2 wiredfalcon2 Regular
491 messages
joined Mar 2005
#117 ·
graniteharbor502 said:I suppose I could have been a Formula 1 driver myself...
What remains undeniably apparent is that any driver placed in a Mercedes-Benz would likely find themselves at the very top of the standings. If there was ever a moment of ambiguity regarding that fact, I believe it has now become perfectly clear to everyone.

And if George Russell doesn't snag pole tomorrow, what's your excuse then?
Kimberly Cruz Kimberly Cruz Member
35 messages
joined Sep 2016
#117 ·
wanderingbison9 said:People spotted Toto hovering near Russell's tires with what looked like a scalpel.

image
bluepuma9 bluepuma9 Active Member
69 messages
joined Jun 2018
#117 ·
ruggedhawk20 said:What does someone's attitude have to do with anything?

You could basically accuse anyone of financial fraud or, I don't know, being a predator just because they're annoying to deal with. We don't have a single shred of evidence against you—just like you don't have anything on Michael Schumacher.

It's the exact same flawed logic! You're just accusing someone because you don't like them.

There is evidence, plain and simple. The FIA found the software; they just couldn't prove they actually ran it. It’s a lot like what happened with Ferrari and their engine last year. 😁

And let's not forget when Benetton used that illegal fuel valve that allowed for lightning-fast refueling, which is why Michael Schumacher was able to jump ahead of Ayrton Senna in Brazil during the pit stop. That didn't come to light until much later in the season, after Jos Verstappen nearly caught fire.
Back then, Benetton was running a literal dream team of schemers: Flavio Briatore and Tom Walkinshaw. Match made in Heaven.
stormybadger8 stormybadger8 Veteran
1.8K messages
joined Apr 2013
#118 ·
shadowmarlin22 said:Yeah, we all know how much prep work goes into this kind of thing, blah blah bla☕

George Russell is showing he’s got massive potential—we're talking on par with Max Verstappen or Charles Leclerc. If he can just get a competitive car under him, he’s a future champion, no doubt about it.
There is absolutely nothing shameful about what Lewis Hamilton is dealing with here. The man has won everything there is to win, so calling this a disgrace is just ridiculous.🤷 This actually just proves Russell's raw talent. It's exactly what we saw back in his junior days when he swept up every single trophy available—showing total dominance even while stuck in a hopeless car during head-to-head battles. He's just built different.

But wait, what exactly is the "disgrace" here?
It's not like George Russell is just giving Valtteri Bottas a gentle tap...
We started out 0.3 seconds behind, now we're at 0.6...
If things went like this in Free Practice 3, we'd be looking at a full second gap, maybe two during the race...

It’s a disgrace for Lewis Hamilton that he was losing to the same old Bottas, only getting crushed like this once in a blue moon on Fridays.
He usually barely scraped by him—like, if he didn't squeeze out every last atom of strength for some alien laps in qualifying, he wouldn't have beaten him by even two-hundredths. But Russell? He does that the very first time he sits in the car.
And here we have Russell, who hasn't been able to score a single point in a Williams Racing car for two years, even though even someone like Kubica managed it...

Bottom line: jumping into a car like this and absolutely demolishing Bottas is insane. It really shows that Bottas is a total hack...
Look at the comparisons:
When Aton jumped into Williams, he was 0.5 seconds slower than Nicholas Latifi's...
When Emerson Fittipaldi jumped into Haas F1 Team, he was 0.4 seconds slower than Kevin Magnussen...

It's normal for an unprepared driver jumping into a car on short notice to be about half a second slower (even against Nicholas Latifi's pace). But this? Having Bottas be over half a second slower? That's not normal. 😳
Regardless of whether Russell has some experience with Mercedes-Benz, if they were neck-and-neck or if he was just close, that would be bad enough. But the fact that Bottas is this far behind? Unbelievable. 🤦
Drew Bennett68 Drew Bennett68 Regular
471 messages
joined Dec 2009
#118 ·
Kimberly Cruz said:image

It's Toto, not Lewis Hamilton
ruggedhawk20 ruggedhawk20 Regular
509 messages
joined Sep 2014
#118 ·
mellowtiger83 said:Are you implying the 1994 Benetton was the superior car? Because that year isn't even on your list.

Yeah. The Benetton was hands down the fastest car on the grid in '94.

Stop obsessing over the Constructors' Championship standings—look at the actual races.

You guys are all missing the point because you're stuck on the stats.

Every single race is just a few clicks away online, so for God's sake, actually watch the footage before you spend all day talking nonsense about it.
stormybadger8 stormybadger8 Veteran
1.8K messages
joined Apr 2013
#119 ·
graniteharbor502 said:I suppose I could have been a Formula 1 driver myself...
What remains undeniably apparent is that any driver placed in a Mercedes-Benz would likely find themselves at the very top of the standings. If there was ever a moment of ambiguity regarding that fact, I believe it has now become perfectly clear to everyone.

Yeah, what a brilliant excuse...
Already seen this nonsense on ESPN 🙂
They just forgot one tiny detail: you aren't even making it out of Q2 in qualifying, let alone grabbing pole, if you're spinning off the track every single time...
Having some decent lap times doesn't mean a damn thing when you can't actually complete a single clean lap. ☕
mellowtiger83 mellowtiger83 Regular
466 messages
joined Aug 2014
#119 ·
Kimberly Cruz said:image

🤣
mellowtiger83 mellowtiger83 Regular
466 messages
joined Aug 2014
#119 ·
bluepuma9 said:There is evidence, plain and simple. The FIA found the software; they just couldn't prove they actually ran it. It’s a lot like what happened with Ferrari and their engine last year. 😁

And let's not forget when Benetton used that illegal fuel valve that allowed for lightning-fast refueling, which is why Michael Schumacher was able to jump ahead of Ayrton Senna in Brazil during the pit stop. That didn't come to light until much later in the season, after Jos Verstappen nearly caught fire.
Back then, Benetton was running a literal dream team of schemers: Flavio Briatore and Tom Walkinshaw. Match made in Heaven.

It stands to reason they were using it. Pure logic. Why would you develop something so secretive and specifically engineered if you weren't going to deploy it?

Simply having the capability implies usage. It is logical.

And people can say whatever they want about Ayrton Senna, but he certainly wasn't deaf, nor was he making baseless accusations against Benetton.

We are discussing a man who once pointed out a fundamental issue with the engine while Honda's mechanics insisted everything was perfect—until his sheer obsession forced them to tear it down, only for him to be proven right.

We are talking about a man who could tell if a barrier had shifted by a few centimeters while traveling at over 150 km/h. He was neither deaf nor blind.
darkmarlin16 darkmarlin16 Veteran
1K messages
joined Nov 2015
#120 ·
Sure, whatever, but I mean Emerson Fittipaldi and Jack Aitken have actually gotten behind the wheel of these cars before, right? George Russell hasn't exactly done that with this Mercedes-Benz machine yet.
ruggedhawk20 ruggedhawk20 Regular
509 messages
joined Sep 2014
#120 ·
Douglas Roberts49 said:Is this all intentional—or just pure chaos?

Yeah
ruggedhawk20 ruggedhawk20 Regular
509 messages
joined Sep 2014
#120 ·
bluepuma9 said:There is evidence, plain and simple. The FIA found the software; they just couldn't prove they actually ran it. It’s a lot like what happened with Ferrari and their engine last year. 😁

And let's not forget when Benetton used that illegal fuel valve that allowed for lightning-fast refueling, which is why Michael Schumacher was able to jump ahead of Ayrton Senna in Brazil during the pit stop. That didn't come to light until much later in the season, after Jos Verstappen nearly caught fire.
Back then, Benetton was running a literal dream team of schemers: Flavio Briatore and Tom Walkinshaw. Match made in Heaven.

The FIA found the software, sure, but they never found proof it was actually being used.

Owning traction control software isn't against the rules—using it is. And they never found any proof of that.

Do you honestly think a massive, deep-pocketed organization like the FIA couldn't hire the best experts on the planet to find that evidence? Look, if the FIA never found a single shred of proof that the software was used—why are you still buying into this?

Sorry, but this whole Benetton TC story is straight-up flat-earther nonsense.
Raymond Anderson4 Raymond Anderson4 Regular
479 messages
joined Oct 2024
#121 ·
We really need to see how George Russell handles the race once the car is heavy with fuel during those opening laps and he’s forced to hunt down fast lap times.

Plus, this is a power circuit where Mercedes-Benz typically dominates, which definitely works in his favor. Honestly, if this had been Abu Dhabi, I think we'd be looking at a completely different story. He just got lucky landing in a car on a track that doesn't demand quite as much raw driver finesse compared to other stops on the calendar.
Jason Campbell70 Jason Campbell70 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2017
#121 ·
A true GOAT lifts the entire team up.
That’s exactly why he’s the GOAT.
mellowtiger83 mellowtiger83 Regular
466 messages
joined Aug 2014
#121 ·
ruggedhawk20 said:Yeah. The Benetton was hands down the fastest car on the grid in '94.

Stop obsessing over the Constructors' Championship standings—look at the actual races.

You guys are all missing the point because you're stuck on the stats.

Every single race is just a few clicks away online, so for God's sake, actually watch the footage before you spend all day talking nonsense about it.

I agree that the Benetton was the superior machine in 1994, yet somehow 90% of people disagree, claiming that Schumacher was actually in a slower car when he outclassed Senna in Brazil.

But when we discuss the legality of that specific Benetton, even the fuel infringement wasn't exactly within the rules. Now you're trying to sell this narrative that they weren't using TC when the opportunity was clearly there.
You say this despite knowing the team was run by Flavio Briatore, a man who once pressured his own driver into hitting a wall just to trigger a safety car.

Are you implying that Briatore didn't exploit those situations?

The logic was quite simple: "Michael, you have these advantages; use them as much as possible. No one can trace us unless Ayrton Senna starts talking, and since there's no physical evidence, Senna's ramblings won't matter. Just go for it."

That is essentially how the conversation went between Flavio and Michael. Plus, "don't say a word to Verstappen because the kid is too young, and besides, look how the crowds will cheer for you once they realize you're two seconds faster than your teammate."

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