New fan legislation

Exactly....we need a full-scale boycott from every single supporter group, not just one specific crew. We're talking about skipping every match, not just showing up for the big international tournaments. If we boycott games until this fan law is amended, people will start to notice. When crowds drop to maybe 100 people per game, or even just 1,000 during a massive derby, the clubs are going to feel it deep in their pockets. Any other way of protesting is just going to get us banned, harassed, or slapped with fines. We could try fighting this through the legal system, though I honestly have my doubts about winning that battle in court.

What kind of boycott are we talking about? Seriously, what are you guys thinking? If we all stay home, we’re just handing them a win on a silver platter.
Now more than ever, we need to push back and show them we're stronger than they think.
Everyone needs to get their groups together and head to the stands to make it clear how much we hate this senseless, totalitarian fan law... honestly, they can take it where they shove it.
🙂

Kyle Barnes said:What kind of boycott are we talking about? Seriously, what are you guys thinking? If we all stay home, we’re just handing them a win on a silver platter.
Now more than ever, we need to push back and show them we're stronger than they think.
Everyone needs to get their groups together and head to the stands to make it clear how much we hate this senseless, totalitarian fan law... honestly, they can take it where they shove it.
🙂

And who exactly is going to stand up to them? Us? A bunch of kids between 13 and 20 years old? And how are we supposed to do that? We light a flare and ten cops show up to clear out the entire section because there aren't even 20 people willing to fight back. Anyone who actually tries to resist just gets slapped with massive bans and fines, and then what? There’s nobody left. The reality is that in the US, we don't even have 10,000 hardcore fans ready to dig in and revolt. We don't have any choice but to boycott, because anything else—whether it's getting crushed by the law, getting crucified by the media (and we all know how they treat us), or getting torn apart by the police—just leaves us with nothing. We simply don't have the numbers to take them on by force.

Kyle Barnes said:What kind of boycott are we talking about? Seriously, what are you guys thinking? If we all stay home, we’re just handing them a win on a silver platter.
Now more than ever, we need to push back and show them we're stronger than they think.
Everyone needs to get their groups together and head to the stands to make it clear how much we hate this senseless, totalitarian fan law... honestly, they can take it where they shove it.
🙂

Setting aside the sheer idiocy of such a law—though it is idiotic—don't you think this is happening specifically because of that Bold move? I mean, there are much more sophisticated ways to express disagreement... honestly, just attacking people usually just backfires.

Anonymous said:And who exactly is going to stand up to them? Us? A bunch of kids between 13 and 20 years old? And how are we supposed to do that? We light a flare and ten cops show up to clear out the entire section because there aren't even 20 people willing to fight back. Anyone who actually tries to resist just gets slapped with massive bans and fines, and then what? There’s nobody left. The reality is that in the US, we don't even have 10,000 hardcore fans ready to dig in and revolt. We don't have any choice but to boycott, because anything else—whether it's getting crushed by the law, getting crucified by the media (and we all know how they treat us), or getting torn apart by the police—just leaves us with nothing. We simply don't have the numbers to take them on by force.

Bold 1-🤷I don't get the 13-20 age thing?? Seriously, does that mean I can't boycott since I'm too old?
Bold 2-we'll light hundreds if we have to, but that's not really the point.
Bold 3-it's true there aren't 10,000 "real" fans, but how do you even expect to boycott games like that... honestly, screw Tim Stamps, Srebrić, Đurđa, and the cops for our boycott. If anything, our boycott solves their problem, because once we stop showing up, there are no more potential troublemakers or "real" fans left in the stands.

Kyle Barnes said:Bold 1-🤷I don't get the 13-20 age thing?? Seriously, does that mean I can't boycott since I'm too old?
Bold 2-we'll light hundreds if we have to, but that's not really the point.
Bold 3-it's true there aren't 10,000 "real" fans, but how do you even expect to boycott games like that... honestly, screw Tim Stamps, Srebrić, Đurđa, and the cops for our boycott. If anything, our boycott solves their problem, because once we stop showing up, there are no more potential troublemakers or "real" fans left in the stands.

1. My point was that most of the crowd is super young; they lack the experience and the mental or physical toughness to handle certain situations that 30-year-olds—who just aren't there—could manage.
2.No, because we'll all just end up being lured back, and that's where it ends for us.
3.No, it isn't solved. How is Tim Stamps going to explain why there aren't 1,000 people packed into stadiums during a single matchday weekend? How are the clubs going to react when they lose ticket revenue, which leads to losing sponsors, and eventually the media calling them out for once—but this time, actually siding with us?

Anonymous said:1. My point was that most of the crowd is super young; they lack the experience and the mental or physical toughness to handle certain situations that 30-year-olds—who just aren't there—could manage.
2.No, because we'll all just end up being lured back, and that's where it ends for us.
3.No, it isn't solved. How is Tim Stamps going to explain why there aren't 1,000 people packed into stadiums during a single matchday weekend? How are the clubs going to react when they lose ticket revenue, which leads to losing sponsors, and eventually the media calling them out for once—but this time, actually siding with us?

I totally get where you're coming from regarding the boycott theory and why stadium attendance has clearly dropped off over the last five or six years—but let's be real, clubs in the MLS don't survive solely on ticket sales. Journalists are usually the ones making noise, and it's pretty tough to win them over given the current mess, so we shouldn't expect much there. Tim Stamps knows perfectly well that interest in American football is dipping, which is probably why he's pushing that "love football" show—it's basically a way for him and the USSF to turn a profit while the fans stay home watching on TV instead of showing up in person.

take a look at this thread about seizing banners

My God, this is embarrassing... 😠

While four or five of us old-timers—with wives and kids to worry about—are bleeding out over this fan law, pulling all-nighters on the weekends, and a few others are trekking all the way to Washington, D.C. just to sit in meetings with the Government, this thread is basically dead. We’re just wasting days on elementary school bickering. And when the crackdown finally hits, don't act surprised... 🤷

Look, I get the arguing; it keeps things interesting, but seriously, start making actual suggestions. Supermirko already uploaded a proposal. Go read through the law and post your specific critiques, ideas, and improvements here.

It’s been three, maybe four days now... 👍

If I were to be hit with a ban—which I am certainly 😁 not—would they actually seize my passport before an away game?
Honestly, this is just plain idiotic.

Zachary Anderson49 said:If I were to be hit with a ban—which I am certainly 😁 not—would they actually seize my passport before an away game?
Honestly, this is just plain idiotic.

It’s just not going to happen. No law works retroactively like that...

I’m looking for suggestions here, not questions...

I’m totally against any kind of boycott... I wasn't out here boycotting Los Angeles FC during those absolute worst years under Grgić's leadership, so I'm definitely not starting now... but man, if all the different groups could actually get on the same page and pull off some massive protest (kind of like what happened back in Stalingrad), then we might actually have some leverage... though knowing how much drama there usually is within our local supporter groups, I’m not holding my breath... I guess we just have to roll with the punches

hollowbear27 said:I’m totally against any kind of boycott... I wasn't out here boycotting Los Angeles FC during those absolute worst years under Grgić's leadership, so I'm definitely not starting now... but man, if all the different groups could actually get on the same page and pull off some massive protest (kind of like what happened back in Stalingrad), then we might actually have some leverage... though knowing how much drama there usually is within our local supporter groups, I’m not holding my breath... I guess we just have to roll with the punches

Right now, the focus needs to be on pushing for changes to the fan law. Will we actually pull it off? Who knows. But you always have to try.

If they won't even listen to the completely reasonable suggestions we're making, then we need to take to the streets with mass protests. We can all agree on that, but talking about it is one thing and actually doing it is another...

There's no "adapting" here. If they get their way, it's game over for fans in America. And I'm worried about the sport itself, because right now, the ultras are pretty much the only ones showing up to the stadiums...

Anonymous said:Right now, the focus needs to be on pushing for changes to the fan law. Will we actually pull it off? Who knows. But you always have to try.

If they won't even listen to the completely reasonable suggestions we're making, then we need to take to the streets with mass protests. We can all agree on that, but talking about it is one thing and actually doing it is another...

There's no "adapting" here. If they get their way, it's game over for fans in America. And I'm worried about the sport itself, because right now, the ultras are pretty much the only ones showing up to the stadiums...

I know they're working on the law, but man, you can tell by the new proposal just how little they've actually listened to any of us... and unfortunately, all that "trouble" in the stands just gave them the perfect excuse to come up with this super strict version. I was just watching a clip of those fans from the Zagora area taking the train down to Washington, D.C., and they were absolutely loaded with alcohol... we really need to bring that up during the talks... clearly some people are being treated more unfairly than others... look, fans aren't gonna die if a law like this passes, the smart ones will just find a way to deal with it, and honestly, nobody gives a damn about the actors, the posers, or the wannabe hooligans anyway...

Illegal stuff and whatever else

"wearing masks, hats, scarves, or any other way to hide your identity"

Hmm... first thing that pops into my head regarding this... you just tell them you're Muslim and claim it's a violation of your civil rights...😁

spitka, when’s the next meeting with Đurđa scheduled, and when can we actually submit some proposals? I’m skeptical about these sit-downs; feels like just another PR stunt so they can pretend they’re being reasonable and claim the fans actually cooperated on this fan law...

The whole thing about covering your face with a hood or a scarf is absolute nonsense. Since when is wearing a hat or a scarf over your face a violation of the law? It's pure dictatorship...

Plus, the logic here is nonexistent. They say you’re allowed to have a 0.02 BAC at the stadium gates, but then you aren't allowed to touch an alcoholic drink while traveling on a bus or train en route? It makes zero sense...

Basically, this law is designed to label a specific group of people as dangerous, shady outcasts. What really gets under my skin is when Đurđa or Tim Stamps claim that regular fans shouldn't fear this new law because it's only meant to clear out the hooligans. You should ask them: is the guy wearing a scarf or a beanie a hooligan? Is the guy having a beer in his car on the way to the game a hooligan? Or is the guy who hits a 0.02 BAC walking through the gate considered a hooligan? If you trip up on any of these new rules, you get reported, slapped with a massive fine, and tossed into some hooligan registry for 10 years—basically branded for life. Not to mention how it ruins your daily life with all the bans...

Here’s an example if I’m following this correctly:
So, let’s say someone gets banned from attending a game for a year, but they also have to report to the police station two hours before kickoff and stay there until it's over. Imagine Real Madrid is playing a match against Zagora at 2:00 PM—does that mean I’m stuck at the precinct starting at noon? How am I supposed to explain that to my boss? I’ll lose my job. If I get fired, isn't that fan law actually unconstitutional since it's basically stripping away my right to work and make a living?
That’s all I’ve got. Hope you guys see where I'm coming from.

Of course this is a straight-up violation of human rights—this whole thing needs to be challenged in the Supreme Court, and if they don't budge there, then we take it straight to an international human rights court
It’s total madness... any sane person can see exactly what's going on here

silentsurfer19 said:Illegal stuff and whatever else

Going illegal won't help you; if anything, it just makes it easier for those looking to crush you to finish the job!
@Spitka—you’re spot on about how retroactive laws work, but come on, anyone with half a brain knows our traffic laws are already partially retroactive... which means they should be tossed out by the Supreme Court. But here’s the kicker: the case hasn't even reached the Court yet because the strongest opposition party hasn't even filed the lawsuit. What I’m trying to get at is this—unfortunately, we can't just sit around waiting for the Supreme Court. Once a law actually takes effect, it’s set in stone for years to come... unless the legislature decides to overhaul it, though they'll probably just make it even harsher.
It might sound paradoxical to some, but we have to try and rally public support. It’s going to be an uphill battle, incredibly difficult, but we have to try. If we head into this fight without any public backing, we're basically dead on arrival... especially when I see the kind of mindsets some people have regarding this whole struggle.
Now, let’s get down to brass tacks:
I think the Des Moines situation is a massive ace up our sleeve. Why? Because in that case, the restraining orders were slapped on the victims too, even while they were supposedly under "police protection"... (And look, I'm not getting into who hit whom or who started what, so please, don't start fighting over that here)
The thing is, American law doesn't recognize collective punishment—or at least, it shouldn't. We can use this specific case to build a solid argument against unconstitutionality and state repression... things we can actually bring to the table when talking to the legislature and the Vice President.
Just glancing at the new bill, the real eyesore is this "masking" business. First off, how are they even going to define masking? Who decides? Where does it happen? And where does it end? For instance, if they seize a hat that cost $83, and they don't give it back, that’s an unlawful seizure of property. But the second point is much bigger: you can't just ban masking. In many countries, including right here in the States, wearing a hijab is perfectly legal because religious freedom is protected by the Constitution... in some places, you can even use headcoverings for your ID photos..
That’s the quick version of it. Hats off to the guys spending their time and sanity trying to fix this mess, but honestly, I think we only have two real moves left: first, we unite everyone behind this cause, and second, we take it straight to the European Court of Human Rights....