New fan legislation

Anonymous said:My God, this is embarrassing... 😠

While four or five of us old-timers—with wives and kids to worry about—are bleeding out over this fan law, pulling all-nighters on the weekends, and a few others are trekking all the way to Washington, D.C. just to sit in meetings with the Government, this thread is basically dead. We’re just wasting days on elementary school bickering. And when the crackdown finally hits, don't act surprised... 🤷

Look, I get the arguing; it keeps things interesting, but seriously, start making actual suggestions. Supermirko already uploaded a proposal. Go read through the law and post your specific critiques, ideas, and improvements here.

It’s been three, maybe four days now... 👍

this is spot on—it really needs to stop...
I’d honestly suggest letting the admin just lock down all the threads and leave nothing but this one—maybe combine everything else into a single "US Fan Scene" megathread? Then he could just scrub the nonsense and the trash...

Look, I get that the admin is fed up with all of this, but we could actually turn this place into something somewhat tolerable—or at least a little less painful—if we tried.

..

If you ask me, just showing up on TV or speaking out in public about these fan laws isn't enough. Sure, T.B. is setting a great example, but we really need the leaders from all the major supporter groups—every hardcore ultras crew out there—to step up. We need more than just talk; we need actual movement. We have to take action right now while we still have the chance, instead of waiting until it's already too late.

It feels like the crew behind d42 bbb has finally stepped up, and honestly, hats off to them. But let’s be real—this is going to take everyone. There’s just way too much friction between the different supporter groups, and even within the groups themselves, there’s this massive ego problem where everyone is too busy acting superior to actually work together. Still, if we could pull it off in Warsaw, we can definitely make it happen now.

Well, T.B. is clearly from the D42 crowd...
He actually posted just a few hours ago mentioning that they are currently working on it...

1. The issue of precautionary measures is absolutely critical; we're talking about the police restricting your fundamental liberties based on nothing more than their own subjective judgment, all without any actual court ruling.
2. Freedom of movement is a constitutionally guaranteed right, yet it's been handed over to the police to decide based on the whims of a random officer. I can wrap my head around certain restrictions around the 1.2 miles stadium area, for instance, but being harassed just for getting out of bed? There is zero logic in that.

Masking is an eyesore, sure, but that isn't even the core problem here.

Finally, thank God we're seeing some actual constructive feedback for once..

Nobody seems to be talking about the incredibly dangerous precedent being set in this law, specifically regarding notifying schools and universities!! They don't even notify schools when students get caught with drugs, yet they’re planning to flag people just for being fans!!! It’s blatant discrimination. Just imagine how they’ll be treated by their peers, professors, or the community at large—not to mention what kind of judgment parents will pass on them for wanting to go to a game!

Also, if you ask me, we really need to push for better training for the police. We have to hammer home the point that crackdowns and heavy-handed tactics never actually achieve what they set out to do.

I wasn't quite sure where to post this, so here you go: http://www.policebrutality.info/

rustypanther said:this is spot on—it really needs to stop...
I’d honestly suggest letting the admin just lock down all the threads and leave nothing but this one—maybe combine everything else into a single "US Fan Scene" megathread? Then he could just scrub the nonsense and the trash...

Look, I get that the admin is fed up with all of this, but we could actually turn this place into something somewhat tolerable—or at least a little less painful—if we tried.

Man, I already tried that a while back, but it didn't really work out.

Way to go, guys! 👍

I have to say, we are all on the exact same page here. In fact, we’ve already taken most of the suggestions you guys posted and worked them into our plans.

We sent over all our revisions to the other groups yesterday. So far, Armada has weighed in with a few extra points, and our attorney is currently busy polishing everything up to make sure it's legally airtight...

I have one more favor to ask.

I’m looking for some photo and video documentation showing police brutality. I need shots like the ones where cops are hauling away a kid at the Rose Bowl while they're crying, or that footage of the Torcida guy lying bloody in the stands at Oracle Park...

Basically, anything similar involving any of the groups!

Thanks in advance. 👍

amberfox6 said:Going illegal won't help you; if anything, it just makes it easier for those looking to crush you to finish the job!
@Spitka—you’re spot on about how retroactive laws work, but come on, anyone with half a brain knows our traffic laws are already partially retroactive... which means they should be tossed out by the Supreme Court. But here’s the kicker: the case hasn't even reached the Court yet because the strongest opposition party hasn't even filed the lawsuit. What I’m trying to get at is this—unfortunately, we can't just sit around waiting for the Supreme Court. Once a law actually takes effect, it’s set in stone for years to come... unless the legislature decides to overhaul it, though they'll probably just make it even harsher.
It might sound paradoxical to some, but we have to try and rally public support. It’s going to be an uphill battle, incredibly difficult, but we have to try. If we head into this fight without any public backing, we're basically dead on arrival... especially when I see the kind of mindsets some people have regarding this whole struggle.
Now, let’s get down to brass tacks:
I think the Des Moines situation is a massive ace up our sleeve. Why? Because in that case, the restraining orders were slapped on the victims too, even while they were supposedly under "police protection"... (And look, I'm not getting into who hit whom or who started what, so please, don't start fighting over that here)
The thing is, American law doesn't recognize collective punishment—or at least, it shouldn't. We can use this specific case to build a solid argument against unconstitutionality and state repression... things we can actually bring to the table when talking to the legislature and the Vice President.
Just glancing at the new bill, the real eyesore is this "masking" business. First off, how are they even going to define masking? Who decides? Where does it happen? And where does it end? For instance, if they seize a hat that cost $83, and they don't give it back, that’s an unlawful seizure of property. But the second point is much bigger: you can't just ban masking. In many countries, including right here in the States, wearing a hijab is perfectly legal because religious freedom is protected by the Constitution... in some places, you can even use headcoverings for your ID photos..
That’s the quick version of it. Hats off to the guys spending their time and sanity trying to fix this mess, but honestly, I think we only have two real moves left: first, we unite everyone behind this cause, and second, we take it straight to the European Court of Human Rights....

People keep bringing up Belo Horizonte over and over. Everyone seems baffled by it, but for now, it's just speculation. We'll see how things play out.

Anonymous said:It feels like the crew behind d42 bbb has finally stepped up, and honestly, hats off to them. But let’s be real—this is going to take everyone. There’s just way too much friction between the different supporter groups, and even within the groups themselves, there’s this massive ego problem where everyone is too busy acting superior to actually work together. Still, if we could pull it off in Warsaw, we can definitely make it happen now.

Right now, we’re working together pretty smoothly. Honestly, you’d have to be a total idiot to try and mess this cooperation up... We're all in the same boat here.

Let's hope we see a repeat of what happened in Verdun this winter, and if we need to team up for other joint actions down the road... 🙏

shadowgardener10 said:spitka, when’s the next meeting with Đurđa scheduled, and when can we actually submit some proposals? I’m skeptical about these sit-downs; feels like just another PR stunt so they can pretend they’re being reasonable and claim the fans actually cooperated on this fan law...

The whole thing about covering your face with a hood or a scarf is absolute nonsense. Since when is wearing a hat or a scarf over your face a violation of the law? It's pure dictatorship...

Plus, the logic here is nonexistent. They say you’re allowed to have a 0.02 BAC at the stadium gates, but then you aren't allowed to touch an alcoholic drink while traveling on a bus or train en route? It makes zero sense...

Basically, this law is designed to label a specific group of people as dangerous, shady outcasts. What really gets under my skin is when Đurđa or Tim Stamps claim that regular fans shouldn't fear this new law because it's only meant to clear out the hooligans. You should ask them: is the guy wearing a scarf or a beanie a hooligan? Is the guy having a beer in his car on the way to the game a hooligan? Or is the guy who hits a 0.02 BAC walking through the gate considered a hooligan? If you trip up on any of these new rules, you get reported, slapped with a massive fine, and tossed into some hooligan registry for 10 years—basically branded for life. Not to mention how it ruins your daily life with all the bans...

I'm not sure when. Hopefully soon.

Everything I said stands. We have all the facts on our side, though nothing is guaranteed. But once you really dig into the details, you realize how flimsy this whole thing is and just how right we are...

Anonymous said:I have one more favor to ask.

I’m looking for some photo and video documentation showing police brutality. I need shots like the ones where cops are hauling away a kid at the Rose Bowl while they're crying, or that footage of the Torcida guy lying bloody in the stands at Oracle Park...

Basically, anything similar involving any of the groups!

Thanks in advance. 👍

Sent you a DM. It isn't much, but...

I’d just add that this is something you need to fight with a good lawyer.

At first glance, several provisions in the law seem unconstitutional, and a constitutional law expert could really shake things up if they actually had the will to do so.

But let’s not kid ourselves; some of the provisions in the current Sports Fan Law are already unconstitutional, so nothing has actually changed...

As for those photos of police "conduct" involving fans, there are a few clips on YouTube—you’ve probably seen them, and I’m not sure how useful they’ll be to you, but still:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqvXCWjdsCc
In this one, an impartial observer could easily swap the hooligans and the police.😁

It makes you wonder: is it possible to detain people like this when they're just speeding in a car by, say, 50 mph? I mean, that actually endangers others on the road, yet this kid isn't endangering anyone and he's still being detained as if he'd killed someone.
It's also interesting to listen to the conversation between the two journalists at the end of the clip, where one says:
"They picked me up by mistake because I looked like a fan," they let him go once they saw the camera.
So, apparently, being a fan is enough grounds for you to be detained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZftm...eature=related
There's really no need to add anything here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-qdOn7rTBQ
You can't really use this one since it isn't even our local police, but they're too intense.🤣

Here’s that Spitka link, just in case anyone missed it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4GDr2__vXI

🙏🙏🙏

Come on guys, let's go! Keep it coming!

Post those photos, all of them!

...check out the photos at the bottom.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7...01070dlsl1.jpg

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/393/dsaddasx3qt8.png

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/1233/no081465pm8.jpg

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/6...rskadv2uf7.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1...licija1lz6.jpg

I can't remember if I've seen that video where the cops storm the stands during an Indianapolis game and just start swinging at anyone in their path