New fan legislation

hollowtinker18 said:Man, who's actually going to ask you, buddy? Whether you "accept" passport seizures or police check-ins or whatever? How many of you suddenly turned into a massive political assembly overnight?
For example, I ended up in a holding cell just a day before the Inter Miami CF vs. New York Yankees match. They told me it was just to sign some stupid form at the station to say whether I was going to the game. I show up, and suddenly there's an old warrant and I'm straight to Brooklyn for a night... I know people who had it way worse...
Besides, the cops really don't care what your neighbors think—whether you're a dealer, a profiler, or a gambler...

You're being incredibly tedious. Seriously, can you guys just decide who Jack actually is? There seem to be five or six different people hiding behind this one username. Every single time, the vocabulary, the sentence structure, and the tone change completely. I have zero interest in getting into a fight with you—or rather, with all of you... 🙄

If you actually have useful advice to offer, go ahead and share it. If not, shut it and get out of the thread. Maybe if you six actually used your brains, you could come up with something more sophisticated than preschool-level chatter. ☕

Jack is Jack.
Only one guy writes under this handle. So, no "you guys." (Not that I'm making this about me...).
I respect the effort, whatever it is, but what’s with that "king of the hill" attitude where you try to kick me off the thread? I'm just asking questions—it's a democracy, right? (Look, I'm not looking for a fight), if something isn't clear, I ask. If you want actual, useful advice, talk to a high-priced lawyer. If that works, fine...
Cheers!

P.S. Like I said, it's just my take. Whether people like it or not... (Whatever. I've learned to be a bit more objective after dealing with all those empty promises and our recent political shifts...)

Good luck to everyone out there...

Example No. 1.—Jack is a provocateur.

Jack hollowtinker18 said:Is there a bus running to Chicago for the celebration this Saturday? Hey, Armando, what’s the deal—is it too expensive for you guys again? Look, hollowtinker18 is going to step in and fix things; all you have to do is show up.
Look, I'm not paying for your shuttle service. If you can manage to act civilized and respectful in Chicago—without all the posturing and fake drama—then maybe we can talk about having a good time. It’s your band's anniversary, and we're just there for the title. Everything depends on you. Whether this celebration actually works for everyone depends on how you behave, because I've been hearing plenty of nonsense lately.
Focus more on those two failures of yours (Inter Miami CF and R.O.).
Whatever. I told them plainly: if they show up peacefully—maybe even singing "Hello Chicago"—they might actually get to leave in one piece. Otherwise, a dockworker's gonna take a day off to handle them.😁

Example no. 2.—Jack, the intellectual.

hollowtinker18 said:What good are photos? A couple of bruised heads and suddenly it’s automatically the cops' fault—as if that would hold up in a small claims court, let alone anything else... Besides, the police bring in "troublemakers" who are a bit rougher than usual, and then what? You think the cops are going to face trial? Meanwhile, those of us who caused three massive scenes during our last five away games are treated like we're picking daisies😂... were those just some agitators from the die-hard fans?😲
Furthermore, those photos from the stadium don't say much for the fans. There's a squad of cops just sitting there on orders, acting as security for a high-risk game. How many times has a cop taken a hit from a bottle thrown from the crowd? (seen it happen). So how exactly are they supposed to act when they're policing an organization like the BBB? Come on, let's not be hypocrites.
Clean up the trash and the phonies within your own ranks before you start talking. You can't be against the ownership one minute and then sucking up to them or begging for a beer after the game (seen it...) or scrambling for tickets the next.
In short—I've been hit plenty of times by the law, both when I deserved it and when I didn't, but that's just the fan lifestyle that clearly some people can't wrap their heads around. And don't think the cops were all honey and milk back in the mid-80s. (Back then, you couldn't even find anyone to pity you if you got beaten up...) Most of the bad cops are intentionally placed at high-risk games, but you'd be surprised how many times I've been lucky because they looked the other way, though that's not really the point here.
Just remember all those intense ACAB provocations... isn't it a bit hypocritical to complain about police brutality after everything? Either you're playing games or you're playing ninja. Clearly, being a hardcore fan isn't for everyone, so maybe stay out of business you can't handle.
Cheers!👍
Good luck...

Jack 👍 don't bother. everything has already been said..

Spitka, if they end up sitting down for another round of negotiations, make sure you sing that chorus right back at them 😁 😉

What we need to say might be hard for them to swallow, but we get each other and we move as one..

The end of the video shows them training like total extremists 👎

p.s. at 1:58 the crew is clearly in love with the cop 😍😍

It's over...
The law passed... This is the end of being a fan in America...

Pushing it, man. Not a single one of the fans' proposals actually made it through.

Since I don't see a single one of the fans' proposals being taken seriously, I’m calling for a total boycott of all matches by every supporter group.

So, what's the deal with the fan legislation in the end?

Edward Hernandez60 said:It's over...
The law passed... This is the end of being a fan in America...

Look, friend, the law hasn't even passed yet. In the US, only Congress has that kind of power, and this thing hasn't even hit their desk for a vote...
The Government was debating it today, but—honestly, I think we all know the deal—not a single one of our proposals is actually going to see the light of day, even when they finally get around to voting...

@Spitka did anyone actually try reaching out to the Children's Ombudsman about this?
P.S. If you can't handle the heat, maybe scroll back a few pages...

Easy there, guys... It’s Congress that passes the laws, not the Government, though they basically work hand in hand...

We don't have all the details yet, but judging by their first moves and the fact they skipped the last meeting, it looks like the Government was pushing their own agenda.

Now we're looking at a real fight against this attempt to completely wipe out the American fan movement.

I'm looking for ideas for protests and LEGAL actions (because anything illegal would be a massive self-inflicted wound) against these bureaucrats.

amberfox6 said:Look, friend, the law hasn't even passed yet. In the US, only Congress has that kind of power, and this thing hasn't even hit their desk for a vote...
The Government was debating it today, but—honestly, I think we all know the deal—not a single one of our proposals is actually going to see the light of day, even when they finally get around to voting...

@Spitka did anyone actually try reaching out to the Children's Ombudsman about this?
P.S. If you can't handle the heat, maybe scroll back a few pages...

The proposal is solid. But honestly, there are only a handful of us working on this, and we're all slammed. We haven't had the bandwidth to hit every single contact point yet. We just finished meetings with the Government and the police, and from here on out, we’ll be knocking on every door possible—from the Ombudsman to the Children's Ombudsman, plus various civil rights groups. Anyone who might be able to tip the scales.

We’ll likely take this up to Strasbourg as well.

What we need right now is unity and total commitment to fighting this fan legislation. If this passes, it’s the death of the supporter culture. Stadiums will either be completely empty or they'll look like a deserted Snow Queen race on Mount Rainier.

Just wanted to let you all know that you've really screwed things up this time. 🙏

🤣

Anonymous said:The proposal is solid. But honestly, there are only a handful of us working on this, and we're all slammed. We haven't had the bandwidth to hit every single contact point yet. We just finished meetings with the Government and the police, and from here on out, we’ll be knocking on every door possible—from the Ombudsman to the Children's Ombudsman, plus various civil rights groups. Anyone who might be able to tip the scales.

We’ll likely take this up to Strasbourg as well.

What we need right now is unity and total commitment to fighting this fan legislation. If this passes, it’s the death of the supporter culture. Stadiums will either be completely empty or they'll look like a deserted Snow Queen race on Mount Rainier.

Man, what "death" are you even rambling about?☕ If this law actually passes through Congress, it won't even be that different from what we already have... I mean, we're still breathing... anyone who's actually smart isn't going to get screwed one way or another... besides, the American fan scene died out a long, long time ago anyway...

hollowbear27 said:Man, what "death" are you even rambling about?☕ If this law actually passes through Congress, it won't even be that different from what we already have... I mean, we're still breathing... anyone who's actually smart isn't going to get screwed one way or another... besides, the American fan scene died out a long, long time ago anyway...

Can we please have some seriousness here? If you’re going to act like a tough guy using terms like "nonsense," there are plenty of other threads where that attitude fits just fine. People used to talk to me the exact same way back in 2003 when the first version was introduced, laughing at us and claiming they'd fight the law to fight its violation. Today is unfortunately also the day that Velet's lawsuit was rejected by the Supreme Court, so take a look at how many good people—us, you, and everyone else—have lost because of a law that is inhumane, unjust, and could only pass in a total banana republic like ours.

If you honestly think this law isn't going to be significantly different from the current one, then you’re incredibly young, naive, and clearly haven't seen enough of the real world. Just click on the first PDF document on the side

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/news/official-policy-updates

In short, a 0.08 blood alcohol limit, bans on face coverings, and various "racist" chants that we all know the police interpret however they want—plus other provisions that basically give the cops the power to arrest anyone they don't like or anyone who has ever crossed them—is the end of the American supporter movement. Anyone who can't see that is either blind or just plain stupid.

So what was that on the new TV? Cut again?

Anonymous said:Can we please have some seriousness here? If you’re going to act like a tough guy using terms like "nonsense," there are plenty of other threads where that attitude fits just fine. People used to talk to me the exact same way back in 2003 when the first version was introduced, laughing at us and claiming they'd fight the law to fight its violation. Today is unfortunately also the day that Velet's lawsuit was rejected by the Supreme Court, so take a look at how many good people—us, you, and everyone else—have lost because of a law that is inhumane, unjust, and could only pass in a total banana republic like ours.

If you honestly think this law isn't going to be significantly different from the current one, then you’re incredibly young, naive, and clearly haven't seen enough of the real world. Just click on the first PDF document on the side

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/news/official-policy-updates

In short, a 0.08 blood alcohol limit, bans on face coverings, and various "racist" chants that we all know the police interpret however they want—plus other provisions that basically give the cops the power to arrest anyone they don't like or anyone who has ever crossed them—is the end of the American supporter movement. Anyone who can't see that is either blind or just plain stupid.

That's right... I completely agree. We need to act now, because if they let this law pass, it's game over. My suggestion is to organize something massive, like a major rally... basically a huge protest involving every single fan group across the US to peacefully show the general public just how senseless this law really is.

(1) The police have the authority over any individual who identifies as a fan, wears team gear, or
heads to a sporting event—if their behavior creates reasonable suspicion that they're under the influence
of 9
alcohol or drugs, or if they're just acting out unlawfully—to identify them, search them
for alcohol, narcotics, fireworks, weapons, or anything else capable of
causing injury or inciting riots and violence, check for banners, flags, or symbols
carrying racist or otherwise hateful messages, seize those items,
subject them to a breathalyzer test using an appropriate device to measure blood alcohol content,
remove them from public transit,
ban them from the venue or the stadium itself, and hold them until
two hours after the game ends."

So that's the deal, fellow fans... assuming Strasbourg doesn't strike this down first...👋

And who knows when, or where... 😉

This is absolutely terrifying...

Section 39.b is being amended to read as follows:
"Section 39.b
(1) The Department of Homeland Security shall organize and maintain a database regarding individuals and
incidents related to sporting competitions.
(2) The database described in paragraph 1 of this section includes: personal data on individuals recorded for
violations of this fan legislation (full name, parentage, Social Security number, date and
place of birth, gender, nickname, pseudonym, occupation, affiliation with a fan club or organized
fan group, photograph, and any information pertaining to an identified physical person who
can be identified), filed criminal complaints and indictments, imposed
preventative measures, penalties, security and protective measures, detained and held persons,
data obtained from foreign law enforcement agencies, and data concerning fans and fan
groups.
(3) Data from paragraph 2 of this section may be used for exchange within the framework of international
police cooperation and may be provided to other users in accordance with regulations governing
personal data protection.
(4) Data from paragraph 2 of this section shall be retained for ten years.".

I’m open to any suggestions—honestly—as long as we aren't talking about boycotts. Because let me ask you this: who, exactly, is actually being hurt by a boycott? From the top down, name one person.
Especially since ninety percent of regular fans couldn't care less about the two percent of people obsessing over the latest fan law drama... and seriously, who in Los Angeles was actually bothered by those two seasons where we were pulling in maybe 200 or 300 people per game? Who is complaining that our stadium hasn't been anything but packed since the end of last season? Tell me, who is actually losing sleep over this?
Let's not be naive here. If we want to see any actual progress, the only thing that might work is some kind of organized protest—whether it's unified or not—aimed at Washington. Beyond that, I don't see any other way we're going to get anywhere.

Here we go again. Not only did they fail to consult any fans regarding the new proposal, but they’ve actually tightened some of the measures compared to the version of the sports fan law that was being discussed here just a few weeks ago...

So, what’s the move? How do we fix this? I honestly don't have an answer. Reading through this law gives me the distinct feeling we're living in an Orwellian nightmare...

As fans, we’re basically invisible in this country because our numbers are so small. Every single fan in America could probably fit into one stadium section. Meanwhile, the general public views us as villains because of a few bad actors, or they simply don't care at all. We have zero support. What's even worse is that plenty of fans don't even realize how destructive this law is; they’re too busy fighting their own petty, insignificant battles over trivial things.

Like spitka said, we need a total mobilization of every group to coordinate some kind of joint action if this law passes. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they start enforcing it immediately during the derby or the opening match in San Francisco...