New fan legislation

I was actually just thinking about asking here if anyone had mentioned the beer ban at the stadium. I saw the news yesterday about the new regulations, and man, they really went and did it... they totally screwed you over.

Honestly, I don't see why they'd bother ending this ban in any kind of decent way...

I mean, seriously, you guys spent all your free time and wasted your energy on what exactly? Just to have your suggestions tossed aside like this? 🤮

Maybe a full boycott of everything is the move. Go to the away games instead and show them what real fans look like—the kind of people these creeps don't even deserve. Empty out the stadiums so they have nobody to enforce this law on, and while you're at it, explain to the public what's actually happening. Maybe jump on a show like *60 Minutes*; that show gets huge views, and seeing how people fight against smoking bans makes me think they’d fight this discriminatory law just as hard.😉

As for the national team and whether it'll always be packed, yeah, that's true, but I wonder how long that'll last. I guess once the cops don't have you "hooligans" around to worry about, they'll just move on to everyone else. I bet even the most laid-back folks won't put up with this, and I certainly won't. After the hassle I dealt with the police at the stadium during the last game, I'm not looking to get into another confrontation unless they're clearly in the right. If not, I'm just boycotting the national team from home...
There are plenty of people who feel the same way as I do.😁

And I'd love to see who's actually going to stop me from screaming my head off at the stadium, ZDS. I can't wait for the first game just to see the cops and this law in action.😬

The investigation into fan laws and finances has already laid everything bare...
Is it not time to head back into the media spotlight? We need to hit every major news outlet and talk show available to ensure the public truly understands the implications of this law.

I guess I didn't realize 🙂
But you really have to keep showing up, you know? Like how people are always pushing back against smoking bans, you have to do the same thing with this Sports Fan Law. Maybe just show up on every other talk show, but keep it classy and make sure the arguments actually make sense 😁
That’s really it—just try to get on every single program 👍

They really ought to play to their sponsors' interests, specifically the breweries. It makes zero sense—morally or logically—to advertise or fund a social gathering using products that are legally prohibited from being consumed at that very same event 😕. A 0.08% BAC limit means fewer beers sold, which translates to less profit. You’d think they’d fight against this new law, wouldn't you? But let’s be honest, it’s already a done deal. Nobody actually gives a damn about the fans or their little outbursts. Most spectators and casual football enthusiasts just want to see those flashy sponsored choreographies on the field. What else are we supposed to expect? What worries me more is this intentional suffocation, this constant moralizing regarding nationalism used to enforce strictness upon society. And that protest in El Paso? That actually stung them. They realized people aren't just swallowing all their lies, their nonsense, and their refusal to address the underlying tensions. It doesn't take much to light a spark; ordinary citizens are perfectly capable of joining in when pushed. This law isn't an isolated incident; it's tied to a much broader social context. I have a nagging feeling people are going to suffer immensely because of this forced push toward radicalism... overall, it's just pure propaganda, man.

Anonymous said:A boycott isn't going to work. Once we hit those big European nights, the stadium will be packed with casual fans anyway, so you won't even notice the lack of hardcore supporters. As for the smaller matches? Who cares if there are a thousand fewer people in the North Stand? When the total crowd is only a couple thousand people including the die-hards, the difference is negligible.
The real move here is to hunt down specific legal violations where the current laws clash with the Constitution and fundamental civil liberties. This isn't something for amateurs; you need a high-powered, motivated attorney. Ideally, someone who actually gets the culture or maybe even an ex-fan themselves. I suggest we set up a legal defense fund for this—I'll personally commit $50-$33 every single month to get us started.

Now this is a solid suggestion. Honestly, we have to start thinking about filing a case with the European Court of Human Rights (and sure, a petition to the Supreme Court of the United States wouldn't hurt, but let's face it, that's a long shot)... but unfortunately, if we want a quality legal challenge, it's going to cost a fortune.
So, we don't really have a choice left but to start raising the cash. The right way to do it would be for every supporter group to collect funds from their own members—take a page out of the book of groups like the Ultras, where all donations are totally transparent and posted publicly online to prevent any shady business... We need to launch this kind of drive immediately, because frankly, right now, only Strasbourg can help us...
If you look closely, there are plenty of groups involved, from the heavy hitters down to the small clubs in the 4th or 5th divisions... we need to get them all mobilized, and we could raise some serious money!

amberfox6 said:Now this is a solid suggestion. Honestly, we have to start thinking about filing a case with the European Court of Human Rights (and sure, a petition to the Supreme Court of the United States wouldn't hurt, but let's face it, that's a long shot)... but unfortunately, if we want a quality legal challenge, it's going to cost a fortune.
So, we don't really have a choice left but to start raising the cash. The right way to do it would be for every supporter group to collect funds from their own members—take a page out of the book of groups like the Ultras, where all donations are totally transparent and posted publicly online to prevent any shady business... We need to launch this kind of drive immediately, because frankly, right now, only Strasbourg can help us...
If you look closely, there are plenty of groups involved, from the heavy hitters down to the small clubs in the 4th or 5th divisions... we need to get them all mobilized, and we could raise some serious money!

I couldn't agree more. In this day and age, you can't do anything without capital. We need to pool our resources to fund every step of this fight. Figuring out the exact logistics of the collection is still up in the air, but I don't see that being the hard part. Any sensible person would gladly chip in $67 bucks, knowing that it might save them thousands down the road—or even keep them out of jail.

Adam Williams2 said:I guess I didn't realize 🙂
But you really have to keep showing up, you know? Like how people are always pushing back against smoking bans, you have to do the same thing with this Sports Fan Law. Maybe just show up on every other talk show, but keep it classy and make sure the arguments actually make sense 😁
That’s really it—just try to get on every single program 👍

There’s zero chance of that happening while public opinion still views fans as nothing more than total idiots and savages. And honestly? Most of that is on the media—though, if I'm being real, we carry a chunk of the blame ourselves too.

The shows themselves have been—and will continue to be—designed specifically to go against the fans. Just look at that recent segment on PBS. It was basically "one guy against everyone else," where four out of the five people on screen had absolutely no clue what they were talking about, and the fifth one was just some robotic police officer following a script.

Does anyone actually know if that last Ultras humanitarian drive (for the victims in a local town) was even mentioned in any major news outlet? Aside from the local stuff in the southern cities? Maybe it was, but I certainly didn't see it anywhere else... 🤷

ps. Regarding that PBS show, props to you for sticking to your guns, but it would have helped if they gave you a little more airtime or, you know, someone actually on your side—someone who was sane and actually understood the subject matter. 👍

I mean, isn't this 0.5 actually an improvement over how things have been lately?

Look, there are actually a ton of solid, constructive ideas flying around here. Seriously, hats off to Spitki and everyone else from all the different groups who stepped up and put in the work on this. I honestly think if we end up needing to chip in for legal counsel—or if we’ve got some lawyers hiding among us fans—everyone will step up and pay their share. This isn't just one group's headache; it's a problem for all of us.
And listen, we can't go making stupid mistakes that just dig us a deeper hole. We have to be smart about this. Every time we give the media something ridiculous to tear us apart over, it just makes the general public dislike us even more. And we need the public on our side. We can't fight this battle alone. We need to take this straight to the Supreme Court of the United States, and if that fails, all the way to Strasbourg.

Betty Ramos2 said:I mean, isn't this 0.5 actually an improvement over how things have been lately?

Not really. Before, if they suspected you were drunk, they might detain you, but most people would just get released after the game. Now, you're looking at a fine or even a ban. They've got everything they need backed by the Sports Fan Act. 😉

Honestly, I don't know a single person who shows up to a game with a BAC under 0.5, especially for away games. That’s basically just two beers. In fact, I don't know anyone who'd be under 0.5 on any given day after 5 PM... 😁

Their initial proposal was a 1.1 limit. We could actually have a conversation about that. Our counter-proposal was to set it at 1.5, or 1.1 for high-risk matches...
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, along with everything else we've put forward. I mean, why should someone get wrecked just because they had a few drinks before a Real Madrid vs. Slaven Belupo match?

The problem is, this proposal—and several others—are clearly designed to crush us. Take the masking laws, for example. There’ll be some flare display at a small local game, and since they won't be able to prove exactly who lit the flare, they'll just pick five guys who happened to be wearing their scarves a bit high or had their hoodies up while standing in the middle of the crowd and haul them in.

Our suggestion was that masking should only be a punishable offense if it's done in conjunction with another crime. Basically, you have to prove someone masked up *to commit* an offense, rather than punishing people just for dressing a certain way that day. And let's be real, you know exactly how those bastards are going to play it.

Even that 0.02% limit is still too high... You aren't going to knock back four beers, maybe just two or three.. 😁

Look, alcohol isn't the root cause of stadium issues. Most regular fans don't show up wasted; they grab two or three beers just to get in the right mood and have some fun... 😁

The ones showing up completely hammered are usually the fair-weather fans who only come out for the massive games. They drink all day long and end up being total liabilities by kickoff...

But this 0.04% rule is pure stupidity. It’s the exact same blood alcohol limit for someone behind the wheel as it is for someone walking into a stadium. I think it's obvious which group is actually a danger to society. Plus, you've got a better chance of getting caught with more than 0.04% in the stands than in a car, because this regulation is basically a gift to the police—they have the right to breathalyze anyone entering the venue...

They slap a limit on us, yet members of Congress and The Cabinet show up to national team games wearing scarves sponsored by big breweries...

Anonymous said:Not really. Before, if they suspected you were drunk, they might detain you, but most people would just get released after the game. Now, you're looking at a fine or even a ban. They've got everything they need backed by the Sports Fan Act. 😉

Honestly, I don't know a single person who shows up to a game with a BAC under 0.5, especially for away games. That’s basically just two beers. In fact, I don't know anyone who'd be under 0.5 on any given day after 5 PM... 😁

Their initial proposal was a 1.1 limit. We could actually have a conversation about that. Our counter-proposal was to set it at 1.5, or 1.1 for high-risk matches...
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, along with everything else we've put forward. I mean, why should someone get wrecked just because they had a few drinks before a Real Madrid vs. Slaven Belupo match?

The problem is, this proposal—and several others—are clearly designed to crush us. Take the masking laws, for example. There’ll be some flare display at a small local game, and since they won't be able to prove exactly who lit the flare, they'll just pick five guys who happened to be wearing their scarves a bit high or had their hoodies up while standing in the middle of the crowd and haul them in.

Our suggestion was that masking should only be a punishable offense if it's done in conjunction with another crime. Basically, you have to prove someone masked up *to commit* an offense, rather than punishing people just for dressing a certain way that day. And let's be real, you know exactly how those bastards are going to play it.

I know of a recent case where someone was actually arrested for having a 0.6 blood alcohol level on game day, even though they were nowhere near the stadium. The whole thing ended up in court. So... yeah.

I couldn't agree more. These days, you can't get anything off the ground without serious capital. If we want to actually fund our activities and make things happen, we need to start pooling our resources. So, what's the game plan for raising the funds?We'll just have to wait and see. Honestly, I don't even think that's the biggest issue here. Anyone with half a brain would be willing to shell out a hundred bucks for this. $67...because one day, that could save him a few thousand bucks—or maybe even keep him out of jail.

We need to move fast because time is slipping away. My first move would be to build out a dedicated website to serve as the central hub for all our info—something like FansUnited.com or a similar community portal. We could get that up and running pretty quickly... $67 I get a domain and hosting package every year. If there isn't anyone else involved, I'll just design a basic landing page myself... and if I need to pay for any upgrades, consider it done.

Anonymous said:I know of a recent case where someone was actually arrested for having a 0.6 blood alcohol level on game day, even though they were nowhere near the stadium. The whole thing ended up in court. So... yeah.

I couldn't agree more. These days, you can't get anything off the ground without serious capital. If we want to actually fund our activities and make things happen, we need to start pooling our resources. So, what's the game plan for raising the funds?We'll just have to wait and see. Honestly, I don't even think that's the biggest issue here. Anyone with half a brain would be willing to shell out a hundred bucks for this. $67...because one day, that could save him a few thousand bucks—or maybe even keep him out of jail.

We need to move fast because time is slipping away. My first move would be to build out a dedicated website to serve as the central hub for all our info—something like FansUnited.com or a similar community portal. We could get that up and running pretty quickly... $67 I get a domain and hosting package every year. If there isn't anyone else involved, I'll just design a basic landing page myself... and if I need to pay for any upgrades, consider it done.

My buddies were sweating it when they headed to San Francisco, and Murijak told them they’d be busted if they hit 1.0. Luckily, by some miracle, they stayed under. It’s happened before, but back then they didn't have the legal footing to justify it—and you know how those guys work; they get aggressive once they feel backed by the law. This new fan legislation means things are going to get incomparably stricter and much worse.

Anonymous said:I know of a recent case where someone was actually arrested for having a 0.6 blood alcohol level on game day, even though they were nowhere near the stadium. The whole thing ended up in court. So... yeah.

I couldn't agree more. These days, you can't get anything off the ground without serious capital. If we want to actually fund our activities and make things happen, we need to start pooling our resources. So, what's the game plan for raising the funds?We'll just have to wait and see. Honestly, I don't even think that's the biggest issue here. Anyone with half a brain would be willing to shell out a hundred bucks for this. $67...because one day, that could save him a few thousand bucks—or maybe even keep him out of jail.

We need to move fast because time is slipping away. My first move would be to build out a dedicated website to serve as the central hub for all our info—something like FansUnited.com or a similar community portal. We could get that up and running pretty quickly... $67 I get a domain and hosting package every year. If there isn't anyone else involved, I'll just design a basic landing page myself... and if I need to pay for any upgrades, consider it done.

We're actually in talks right now about buying freedomforfans.org or .com

We just need to find a designer who's a legitimate pro. We also need to nail down what kind of content we're running. There's going to be a meeting this weekend between several different groups to hammer out the details.

People have spent enough time talking about what *should* be done here. In my opinion, the first step should be showing this fan legislation to other supporters, because most fans aren't educated on it yet and have no clue what kind of disaster it brings. We need to educate everyone on what this law actually entails. Personally, I’ll start with myself. I followed some minor bits regarding the fan legislation, saw the initial proposal, and thought, "Whatever, it'll be a bit stricter, but we'll adapt." I also caught a segment on the news where they discussed it; it didn't seem anything special to me, roughly what was in the proposal—though I know how the media can camouflage and present facts subjectively (especially TV). Today, some guy started messaging me on MSN, saying it's almost over, that this is the end of the supporter movement. I laughed at him, obviously, until he showed me the link to this thread. Only then did I realize the horrors this law carries.

Unfortunately, only a tiny minority of fans are aware of these horrific clauses in the law, and that needs to be turned around very quickly. I think this is the only place where the law is actually being written about and analyzed. A huge portion of everyone else is too busy with the classic fighting between bbb, Torcida, Kohorta, and Armada, which they should probably just shut up about until better times arrive.

Looking at the clause regarding the 1.1 blood alcohol limit, I was actually satisfied. It used to happen to us that people would be detained at, say, the Rose Bowl, for a 0.1—yes, for a 0.1!!! We all had to clear out immediately; 25 of us were taken into the stands, but we eventually cleared out too. 🙄 I thought, okay, at least the limit is now defined for when someone can enter the stadium versus when they get detained, but now we've been handed a clause about 0.5 (no comment).

Someone suggested we shouldn't boycott the first few games until the bigger matches come around, and then we should all boycott together. To that, I'll say that in the first round of the season restart, we have the Red Sox-Yankees and the Steelers-Bengals—basically the biggest derby in America, and the biggest derby where neither the Yankees nor the Red Sox are playing. Should we boycott these games or not? I HAVE NO CLUE; we need to see everything and reach an agreement.

The worst and most disgusting part is definitely that clause about keeping records of everyone who shows up at the stadium. Nobody has specifically focused on that part, but that is the section of the law that will preemptively destroy the supporter movement. They'll be recording everyone, including the younger kids who are the future of the movement, and they're going to deal with massive bullshit because of it. Unfortunately, it might turn out that this is just testing new social control measures, and soon everyone will have similar records (if you connect that to the introduction of personal ID numbers)—someone said 1984 is becoming a reality.

I'm wondering, is that part included in the law where the police send notices to schools, colleges, or workplaces if a person xxx xxx participated in riots, lit a flare, or something like that??? Imagine if the police start sending letters stating that xxx yyy is a member of the nnnn supporter group and actively participates in the fan scene... given the public opinion on fans, that person would find themselves in a very unfavorable position.

Kudos to slobodnaviacije.org; I think the internet and forums are the only way to "educate" the public about the real situation regarding fans and soccer. Someone with a Facebook account could also open a group and write a sensible, argued text to educate people; such a text, with a little effort, would be visible to many (hopefully, I don't know how Facebook works).

Anonymous said:Not really. Before, if they suspected you were drunk, they might detain you, but most people would just get released after the game. Now, you're looking at a fine or even a ban. They've got everything they need backed by the Sports Fan Act. 😉

Honestly, I don't know a single person who shows up to a game with a BAC under 0.5, especially for away games. That’s basically just two beers. In fact, I don't know anyone who'd be under 0.5 on any given day after 5 PM... 😁

Their initial proposal was a 1.1 limit. We could actually have a conversation about that. Our counter-proposal was to set it at 1.5, or 1.1 for high-risk matches...
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, along with everything else we've put forward. I mean, why should someone get wrecked just because they had a few drinks before a Real Madrid vs. Slaven Belupo match?

The problem is, this proposal—and several others—are clearly designed to crush us. Take the masking laws, for example. There’ll be some flare display at a small local game, and since they won't be able to prove exactly who lit the flare, they'll just pick five guys who happened to be wearing their scarves a bit high or had their hoodies up while standing in the middle of the crowd and haul them in.

Our suggestion was that masking should only be a punishable offense if it's done in conjunction with another crime. Basically, you have to prove someone masked up *to commit* an offense, rather than punishing people just for dressing a certain way that day. And let's be real, you know exactly how those bastards are going to play it.

Yeah, but look, they could've screwed me over with a 0.1, 0.2, or 0.3 before, but at least now there’s some kind of limit. It’s a stupid limit, though—way too low to actually mean anything in the real world...

So I can't exactly call this a step forward (man, I wasn't expecting any progress from these guys when they were rewriting the laws in the first place), but damn it, I can't say it's a step backward either. At least not from my perspective as a fan who ended up in a police station three different times, even though all three times I was under 0.5. And forget 0.5—all three times my levels were actually under 0.3.😉

Anonymous said:I’m all for a mixed approach. I’d definitely skip one match and use the media to call on grandmas with their grandkids and moms with their kids to pack our stadiums instead.

Honestly, it might be even more effective than a total boycott to just stop cheering during certain parts of the game. We did something similar during a Hajduk match back in '94, and man, it looked absolutely brutal. We were dead silent until the 30th minute, then there was this 15-minute burst of pure madness, and then we just headed home from the stands. There are plenty of ways to pull that off.

We also need to organize something in El Paso, but not as a loud protest against the Law—it needs to be done with dignity. Still, it would be a great way to show our strength and unity, just like we did last year.

We'll just have to see what the leaders of the fan clubs decide to do...

My humble suggestion? We should just stop showing up to games for a while. If we cut them off, those lowlifes won't have anything to do; they won't be able to organize fan marches or handle security for the matches because there won't be anyone to watch. The breweries won't have anyone to sell beer to, and the stadiums will sit empty during this mid-season slump. Everyone loses revenue, and believe me, that’s the one thing that actually hurts them—it'll force them to start fighting amongst themselves.

We might actually do this incompetent Cabinet a favor by staying away, especially when I think about how much money they waste sending riot squads from all over the US just to follow bbb when they travel down to Miami to watch the fan columns.

In the meantime, instead of Warsaw, let's organize a massive fan gathering in El Paso or Boise, maybe even throw in a soccer tournament.

Choreography... those stands in England

http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?i...islaze4nh7.jpg

Butković: An end to this fascist iconography

God damn them—they’d sell their very souls just to suck up to Europe... In a few years, we can probably expect our local political filth (backed by the media, of course) to declare Hurricane, Flash, and all those other events as crimes... and then ban anyone from ever celebrating the anniversaries...
Sanders doesn't care about being Prime Minister or President; he just wants a seat in the European Parliament and some fancy European office, no matter the cost... I work with people just like him—economic bottom-feeders who would trade their integrity for a single step up the ladder...

And this sports fan law? It’s nothing more than a smokescreen used by this incompetent US administration to fight their own battles... Nothing is going right for us in any sector. And then, the only people making any noise—the ones actually getting coverage in Europe (unfortunately, it's all negative)—are the fans. Every other sector is completely screwed (except for monetary policy and Rohatinski, whom they also tried to trash and push out, but couldn't because the man is actually competent). So, just to save face with Europe, they pass these "revolutionary" laws to prevent unrest, just so they can stop the damn negative press that the fans generate... No matter what they do or how they act, if it weren't for us, nobody would even know this backwater country exists... A country that clearly has no clue how to market itself despite its tourism potential... Total incompetence!!

I’ve been digging deep into this sports fan law, and honestly, it’s an absolute disaster. If this passes, it’s the death knell for fans—everyone from the old-school legends who paved the way to those of us active now, and even the kids just getting into the game. This law is going to cost us all dearly, in our own ways. Even if we don't disappear overnight, the constant stream of bans will slowly bleed us dry. And the worst part? Those provisions targeting schools mean we won't even be able to attract the next generation. We'll see small groups vanish first, then the big ones. Just look at the situation with the local hardcore supporters; they're already feeling the squeeze, and that’s before this law even hits the books. Someone higher up claimed we’d be gone in ten years, but they're being way too optimistic. We’ll likely be wiped out within a year of this going live because the current crowd will get crushed by legalities, and no new blood will step up to fill the void. This is the make-or-break moment. We have to show the public—the average Americans—what’s actually happening here. It needs to be something massive, like a huge grassroots movement or a petition against a major corporate takeover. We can't do this alone; we need allies, sympathizers, and regular people to stand with us. Everyone needs to get involved. We need to hit the news stations, go on TV and radio to explain the reality, hand out flyers, put up posters, and organize rallies—but they have to be peaceful, without a single incident. We need lawyers who actually speak "fan language" to represent us, we need to get statements out to the press, and we need a dedicated website. We could take it step by step, but I think the most eye-catching move for the public would be a total boycott. That’s what would really grab the attention of ordinary people and other fans. Imagine the opening weekend—two of the biggest rivalry games of the season. Now, imagine if not a single organized supporter showed up for the first round. You’d have maybe 2,000 people scattered through the whole stadium. Then, for the second round, fans only show up for the second half. By the third round, people just watch the first half in silence and walk out during the second. But—and this is key—we do it without any chaos. No clashes between rival factions like those recent brawls you see in urban arenas, no flares in the stands, no obnoxious behavior. None of that. Because no single group can survive this on their own. We have to unite and defeat the forces trying to destroy us, which, right now, are much stronger than we are.