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Discussion policy - criteria

Started by Sarah Wilson95 · · 👁 11 views · 118 replies

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Participants Sarah Wilson95driftingdriverGregory Howardirontiger29Michael Sanders13hollowwalker142Douglas Booth40mistycyclist5Kevin Mitchellwanderingmaker8Jeremy Diaz9Jerry GarciaNathan Bailey65James Fowler52Jonathan Morales79Dana Reed4Alexander Hayes3Kate Taylor2swiftscout8Terry Rodriguez41Joseph Watson3hollowtrucker77Drew Brooks8Aaron Lee97 …
Gregory Howard Gregory Howard Active Member
144 messages
joined Dec 2009
#21 ·
driftingdriver said:Take a look at your profile; there are twelve pages of warnings there. You’ve been collecting them from just about every moderator on the site. Isn't that just proof that the problem isn't with the moderators, but with you? You wage this personal crusade under the guise of "enlightenment" and trying to influence the masses, and you don't care how blunt you are—telling it like it is regardless of who gets hurt. It’s pure Machiavellianism, really. It seems no moderator is ever good enough for you unless they happen to be standing on the exact same side as you.

Lately, you’ve been getting those warnings from me and the observers, mostly because we are essentially the only ones systematically moderating the politics section. That’s why we’re constantly being hauled before the Attorney General; it's simply evidence that we’re doing the dirty work.

The rest of the mods are basically inactive. Some have checked out completely, while others might eventually drift back. As it stands, the politics section only has two mods who are actually active on a systematic level.

If you attack us active mods from every possible angle and orientation, doesn't that just prove we aren't biased?

Personally, I’ve been labeled as everything from an American sympathizer and a communist to a fascist or a religious zealot... you name it. All of it packed into one person. But honestly, those labels say much more about the people throwing them than they do about me. Of course, we also have to account for the silent majority, those people who are slowly returning to the politics section after it was hijacked by extremists—just a tiny handful of people representing every possible color, fighting their holy wars and peddling their indoctrination. That’s why most people stay away. My mission is to bring that silent majority back to the political discussion. So far, I think I'm succeeding; more and more of that quiet crowd is showing up.

Maybe the silence from everyone else created a false impression. Let me correct myself: all the moderators here are failing at their jobs. It’s primarily due to an incredibly poorly defined discussion policy, compounded by their own personal shortcomings. I personally remember some of my own bans, and I can say with certainty that, by any reasonable standard, I deserved less than 10% of them. The rest is nothing more than moderator autism and sheer laziness.

2. examples:

Even if you can spot a clear "political orientation" from the moderators—which is my main gripe here—it isn't actually the issue for me. I don't care about their personal stances. The real problem is when they start handing out bans based on twisted or idiotic criteria.

The core issue here is simple: the criteria are garbage. They allow trolls—professional agitators—to act out and provoke endlessly without facing any real consequences from the moderators. These mods hide behind technicalities like, "Oh, they didn't technically insult anyone." Sure, they didn't use a slur, but they’re clearly talking out of their asses. In any society, whether it's a real community or an online forum, people should be allowed to call out scumbags directly without all this performative outrage. You should be able to say, "You're a provocateur and you're full of shit," and leave it at that. That shouldn't result in a ban or a warning; it's just honest human communication. If some self-proclaimed "participant" shows up only to smirk and mock everyone, and someone responds with, "Cut the crap and take your nonsense elsewhere," that shouldn't be sanctioned. Period. The argument that we should just ignore them or maintain "civil discourse" is total nonsense. When these spineless types start peddling their fairy tales and lies—claiming Marshall was flawless, that the US was founded on crime, or spinning endless webs about religious groups and historical atrocities—it is perfectly natural to shut those provocative little pests down. They never stop until you kick them out the door. These provocateurs get a free pass to stir up trouble, while anyone who tells them to go to hell—exactly where they belong—gets banned.

And you, along with the rest of the moderation team, clearly lack any sense of irony or humor. It’s a black-and-white worldview. You'd probably even label a publishing house in Chicago as "cartoonish" if it were named after some pre-war Communist—take the old joke about a certain leftist who couldn't decide between two political paths and said, "I'm like Buridan's ass." The response was instant: "Why Buridan's?" Meaning, you're just an ass. That kind of irony is standard communication, yet here, it would be sanctioned because the mods wouldn't even grasp the point. My second grievance is that labeling someone a "troll" is completely unjustified. I can't tell if this comes from moderator malice or a simple lack of basic education. There have been times I've received warnings for harmless, humorous remarks that weren't provocative or malicious in the slightest. These were mere digressions that actually held meaningful connections to the topic, yet the mods dismissed them as "trolling." Pure stupidity. Real conversation is impossible without tangents that aren't strictly tied to the subject. If those tangents use associative nuances, handing out warnings is wrong. This points to one of three things: a hostile attitude from the mods, their own ignorance, or a total failure to understand basic social culture.

That's it. Based on my own posts, I don't think I've even "earned" 10% of those bans. Everything else is just moderator malice or pure mental deficiency.
Jeremy Diaz9 Jeremy Diaz9 Active Member
73 messages
joined May 2007
#22 ·
driftingdriver said:I’m not out here practicing any kind of censorship. My approach is pretty straightforward: I prioritize respecting the US Constitution and our national laws, and then I follow the Reddit rules. That’s really all there is to it. If I’ve somehow misinterpreted the forum rules, then the admins have every opportunity to overturn my decisions. It couldn't be made any simpler than that.

Article 38.

Freedom of opinion and expression is guaranteed.

Freedom of expression includes, in particular, freedom of the press and other media, freedom of speech and public appearance, and the free establishment of all public communication institutions.

Censorship is prohibited. Journalists have the right to freedom of reporting and access to information.

The right to correction is guaranteed to anyone whose rights, established by the US Constitution and law, have been violated by public notice.

Article 40.

Freedom of conscience and religion, and the free public manifestation of faith or other beliefs, are guaranteed.

Regarding this, driftingdriver, I’m quoting the US Constitution, in case you happened to be unaware.
And since you claim to respect the US Constitution, I find it strange that these two articles escaped your notice...
By the way, if you actually want people to take you seriously, maybe stop using terms like "ad hominem," "flammable," or "indoctrination." You seem to throw them around somewhat haphazardly, and—God forgive me—it makes you look almost tragicomic.
One more thing: that "silent majority" of yours isn't going to return to the politics sub while you're busy playing judge and jury there.
You’ve managed to alienate everyone—the right, the left, and the liberals alike—simply because you come across as completely uncouth and incapable...
Now, I'll take my badge of truth, please. Thanks!
Jerry Garcia Jerry Garcia Member
28 messages
joined Jan 2009
#23 ·
Two separate threads merged here because they share the exact same premise: complaining about how the politics mods do their jobs.

Regarding the Napoleon situation, the ban was lifted, but the thread stayed closed BECAUSE IT WAS PROVOCATIVE. It was designed specifically to trigger a fight, not because discussing the cross is forbidden.

As for the second question, politics moderators aren't perfect. No moderator is. To become a mod, you have to be someone recognized for being able to articulate a clear perspective. You can't expect politics mods to be people who don't have defined opinions on a given topic or situation.
The former America subforum was created because most users posting from the US—who honestly couldn't care less about what's happening in Mexico or Canada—were getting annoyed seeing those topics cluttering the main politics front page. Now, those discussions have their own dedicated space, and anyone uninterested doesn't even have to notice they exist. As a regular visitor to the politics section, I think the former America subforum has served its purpose perfectly.

Provocateurs of all stripes get penalized and deleted every single day. If you're looking for it, you'll see it. But the fact remains that some things slip through unnoticed too. That's actually a good thing...😉
driftingdriver driftingdriver Active Member
62 messages
joined Jul 2010
#24 ·
Freedom of speech? Why don't you head down to Times Square and start gathering signatures to ban the cross in America, then we'll see how much freedom of speech you actually have. Go ahead, organize a referendum, and if it passes, strip every cross off every church in the country. Maybe we could just tear the churches down entirely, similar to how the Taliban destroyed Buddhist shrines?

By that logic, why don't you gather signatures to stop the prosecution of pedophilia as well?

We are dealing with a trolling topic and pure absurdity here. As such, it’s been closed because it is meaningless and ridiculous. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech; the topic wasn't a debate about the cross itself, but rather about banning it.

Besides, why am I even continuing this argument when the Reddit rules clearly state:

..non-constructive national, religious and similar conflicts (trolling)

Simply starting a thread about banning the cross is trolling and a deliberate attempt to provoke conflict. The fact that the admins ignored the very rules they established isn't my problem, it's theirs—since they essentially wiped out the penalty on the original post. Then again, that's their right too.
As far as I'm concerned regarding this whole business about banning the cross, the conversation is over.
Jeremy Diaz9 Jeremy Diaz9 Active Member
73 messages
joined May 2007
#25 ·
driftingdriver said:Freedom of speech? Why don't you head down to Times Square and start gathering signatures to ban the cross in America, then we'll see how much freedom of speech you actually have. Go ahead, organize a referendum, and if it passes, strip every cross off every church in the country. Maybe we could just tear the churches down entirely, similar to how the Taliban destroyed Buddhist shrines?

By that logic, why don't you gather signatures to stop the prosecution of pedophilia as well?

We are dealing with a trolling topic and pure absurdity here. As such, it’s been closed because it is meaningless and ridiculous. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech; the topic wasn't a debate about the cross itself, but rather about banning it.

Besides, why am I even continuing this argument when the Reddit rules clearly state:

..non-constructive national, religious and similar conflicts (trolling)

Simply starting a thread about banning the cross is trolling and a deliberate attempt to provoke conflict. The fact that the admins ignored the very rules they established isn't my problem, it's theirs—since they essentially wiped out the penalty on the original post. Then again, that's their right too.
As far as I'm concerned regarding this whole business about banning the cross, the conversation is over.

If anyone here is acting like a troll right now, I guess it's you.
Legitimate topics would include banning fascist symbols or communist iconography!
Why are those considered legitimate?
Because the arguments used are based on the atrocities committed under those specific symbols.
If you draw that parallel, it should be perfectly legitimate to hold a discussion regarding a ban on the cross for those exact same reasons.
And that falls under the umbrella of freedom of speech.
It's a separate matter entirely—I'm not the kind of person who would go around tearing things off someone's wall unless that symbol directly threatened the sovereignty or stability of the United States.
The same goes for real life; if someone tells me they support banning one thing or another, that’s fair game for a debate.
But if someone tells me they want to insult all our veterans, there isn't going to be a polite debate; you're getting slapped on the spot.
I assume you get what I'm trying to say.
Or perhaps you don't?
Jeremy Diaz9 Jeremy Diaz9 Active Member
73 messages
joined May 2007
#26 ·
Higgs said:And honestly, how are you any different from the person you're criticizing?

I’d say the difference is pretty damn obvious, if I may be so bold...
Gregory Howard Gregory Howard Active Member
144 messages
joined Dec 2009
#27 ·
Just to be clear, this is what I mean:
http://www.reddit.com/showpost.php?p=1...5&postcount=76
Nathan Bailey65 Nathan Bailey65 Active Member
79 messages
joined Oct 2008
#28 ·
Honestly, moderation around here just depends on which way the political wind is blowing for the mods at any given moment.
Political alignment is everything.
The proof is in the million different rules they have, all of which can be twisted and interpreted however they see fit.

In reality, ten clear, concrete rules would be more than enough.
Jeremy Diaz9 Jeremy Diaz9 Active Member
73 messages
joined May 2007
#29 ·
Higgs said:Intolerance is still intolerance...

Exactly my point...
A debate is supposed to be a debate, but just hammering home a single perspective isn't really a discussion at all...
It’s those subtle nuances that I guess the mods just can't seem to wrap their heads around...
James Fowler52 James Fowler52 Member
20 messages
joined Jan 2010
#30 ·
I’m just wondering, why on earth are these specific people moderators on the former America PDF:
Blaise, rezonator, the edge, and driftingdriver?
How are they even supposed to recognize trolling when they barely know anything about history, the political structure of Canada, or what’s actually happening in Canada right now—which, let's be honest, makes up like 70% of the topics on this entire PDF?

What kind of justice are they even trying to dispense here? 🤷 That’s exactly why you turned the former America PDF into such a low-quality mess. 👎

Take @posmatrač, for example. Even though he’s an unapologetic advocate for Canadian interests and is clearly a massive nationalist, at least he tries to play it sophisticated. In the end, he actually knows what’s going on and understands the situation in the former America. It makes sense that Simba is here as the admin, but I just don't get the rest of them.

I honestly think even the Mexicans are getting shortchanged on the former America PDF.
Kevin Mitchell Kevin Mitchell Member
14 messages
joined Aug 2011
#31 ·
I just don't get it...
It's okay to say: "Look at the symbols on the heads of those who destroyed El Paso back in '91"...
But it's not okay to say: "Look at the symbols on the shields of those who razed Zadar in the 1200s"

How is the first one allowed while the second is considered trolling or provocation?
Are you going to wipe those first "arguments" away and ban them as trolling too? I think that would be fair. It should be all or nothing. No hypocrisy or double standards here.

PS. Just to be clear, I'm fine with allowing any symbol, provided that the moment someone uses actions or words to violate someone else's rights, they face the appropriate penalty. Let them wear swastikas, Che Guevara, Marshall, Hitler, Stalin... whatever they want...

PPS. It's interesting how quickly I was called out, yet posts that are pure trolling and personal attacks pass through unpunished even when reported...☕ I try to be decent and report offensive posts, but nobody reacts.
For example—someone puts forward false facts claiming homosexuals are sick. In medical circles, that isn't even a disorder, let alone a disease. I point that out. The very next post from a user is: "Oh, so you're gay? You should be sanctioned on this forum for that."
If that isn't a personal attack, then I don't know what is. But that's where the "insight" and "mind-reading" of the moderators ends (even though they have no problem "reading" mine) and they fail to sanction that post.
driftingdriver driftingdriver Active Member
62 messages
joined Jul 2010
#32 ·
@Gregory Howard: There are general forum rules regarding netiquette that demand respect for everyone you talk to, regardless of whether they're right or wrong, or if they happen to be trolls. It isn't up to you to play judge and jury by launching those inappropriate, aggressive ad hominem attacks. That kind of behavior simply isn't tolerated on any decent forum, including this one.

The moderators in the politics section are just enforcing the rules. That’s really all there is to it. If the rules were changed to suit your specific way of communicating, then the mods wouldn't be coming after you for the language you use. Look, I didn't write the rules, but I have to follow them. Rules have to exist; otherwise, you're just left with voluntarism, improvisation, anarchy, and total chaos.
Jeremy Diaz9 Jeremy Diaz9 Active Member
73 messages
joined May 2007
#33 ·
Back at it again with the ad hominem attacks, and honestly, they’re being used in a completely wrong context.🤣
driftingdriver driftingdriver Active Member
62 messages
joined Jul 2010
#34 ·
James Fowler52 said:I’m just wondering, why on earth are these specific people moderators on the former America PDF:
Blaise, rezonator, the edge, and driftingdriver?
How are they even supposed to recognize trolling when they barely know anything about history, the political structure of Canada, or what’s actually happening in Canada right now—which, let's be honest, makes up like 70% of the topics on this entire PDF?

What kind of justice are they even trying to dispense here? 🤷 That’s exactly why you turned the former America PDF into such a low-quality mess. 👎

Take @posmatrač, for example. Even though he’s an unapologetic advocate for Canadian interests and is clearly a massive nationalist, at least he tries to play it sophisticated. In the end, he actually knows what’s going on and understands the situation in the former America. It makes sense that Simba is here as the admin, but I just don't get the rest of them.

I honestly think even the Mexicans are getting shortchanged on the former America PDF.

Why on earth would you assume that Blaise, rezonator, edge, and driftingdriver are completely oblivious to what's actually happening in Canada or the remnants of the former America? Do you honestly believe you have any actual arguments to back up such a claim?
Here is some context for you: I was born right in the heart of Canada, and I spent twenty years living there. I even served a year in the American People's Army. Because of that, I know the people and the various ethnic groups of the former America like the back of my hand. I’ve been living in the States for twenty-six years now, and I’ve been following politics since my high school days. Most of the young people around here talk about history as if it’s a textbook story, but I actually lived through the things they're debating. I felt the reality of everything from the suppression of our symbols to the persecution of priests and anyone else who dared to step out of line with the League of Communists of America. I know exactly what it feels like to be an outsider in your own home. I was also a veteran of the war, someone who actually wore the uniform and carried the emblem on my chest.
Well, my friend, you completely missed the mark on that one—you didn't account for the whole damn football field.

Why on earth would you assume that Simba knows more about the history and current state of affairs in Canada than I do?
James Fowler52 James Fowler52 Member
20 messages
joined Jan 2010
#35 ·
driftingdriver said:Why on earth would you assume that Blaise, rezonator, edge, and driftingdriver are completely oblivious to what's actually happening in Canada or the remnants of the former America? Do you honestly believe you have any actual arguments to back up such a claim?
Here is some context for you: I was born right in the heart of Canada, and I spent twenty years living there. I even served a year in the American People's Army. Because of that, I know the people and the various ethnic groups of the former America like the back of my hand. I’ve been living in the States for twenty-six years now, and I’ve been following politics since my high school days. Most of the young people around here talk about history as if it’s a textbook story, but I actually lived through the things they're debating. I felt the reality of everything from the suppression of our symbols to the persecution of priests and anyone else who dared to step out of line with the League of Communists of America. I know exactly what it feels like to be an outsider in your own home. I was also a veteran of the war, someone who actually wore the uniform and carried the emblem on my chest.
Well, my friend, you completely missed the mark on that one—you didn't account for the whole damn football field.

Why on earth would you assume that Simba knows more about the history and current state of affairs in Canada than I do?

Just head over to that one thread about jurisdiction, how Canada functions, the history, and the current political climate, and we’ll see where you all stand. Deep down, you guys have opinions on the former America too. 😵 If you actually knew the situation, then you'd realize the moderation here is pretty terrible. 👎
I mean, seriously, how else could it happen if that PDF wasn't such a mess?

You see these trolls, myth-makers, and apologists—whether they're Americans, Muslims, or Mexicans—dropping totally inaccurate, fake, mythical, or straight-up chauvinistic posts, and nobody reacts for days. It's wild.
And then, out of nowhere, regular users get slapped with warnings for being off-topic or saying something minor, while all those massive, hateful posts just sail right through without a penalty. It just makes the whole document look even worse.

As for Simba, I only said that because I guess every thread needs an admin, and he probably doesn't have a clue about Canada either.
driftingdriver driftingdriver Active Member
62 messages
joined Jul 2010
#36 ·
I’m struggling to find anything substantial in what you're saying, aside from a whole lot of noise without any actual substance. Besides, looking at your history, you've only made fifty-three posts total, including this month—do you honestly believe you have a complete grasp on everything wrong with American politics? You don't have a single post on the topic there. Are you some kind of clone?
driftingdriver driftingdriver Active Member
62 messages
joined Jul 2010
#37 ·
James Fowler52 said:Just head over to that one thread about jurisdiction, how Canada functions, the history, and the current political climate, and we’ll see where you all stand. Deep down, you guys have opinions on the former America too. 😵 If you actually knew the situation, then you'd realize the moderation here is pretty terrible. 👎
I mean, seriously, how else could it happen if that PDF wasn't such a mess?

You see these trolls, myth-makers, and apologists—whether they're Americans, Muslims, or Mexicans—dropping totally inaccurate, fake, mythical, or straight-up chauvinistic posts, and nobody reacts for days. It's wild.
And then, out of nowhere, regular users get slapped with warnings for being off-topic or saying something minor, while all those massive, hateful posts just sail right through without a penalty. It just makes the whole document look even worse.

As for Simba, I only said that because I guess every thread needs an admin, and he probably doesn't have a clue about Canada either.

I don't moderate the former America section. The observer handles that, and I just jump in when necessary—basically, whenever he isn't around. Besides, I’ve only been a moderator in politics for four months, just like the observer. In my view, the politics section has actually improved. But then again, that's just my opinion.
Jeremy Diaz9 Jeremy Diaz9 Active Member
73 messages
joined May 2007
#38 ·
driftingdriver said:I’m struggling to find anything substantial in what you're saying, aside from a whole lot of noise without any actual substance. Besides, looking at your history, you've only made fifty-three posts total, including this month—do you honestly believe you have a complete grasp on everything wrong with American politics? You don't have a single post on the topic there. Are you some kind of clone?

This is hands down my favorite moderator argument.
Why on earth would you think people aren't afraid of the truth?
Just tell me: has there ever been a single instance where a mod didn't immediately slap a ban or a warning on their first critic?
And why should anyone assume you mods are actually being fair?
Gregory Howard Gregory Howard Active Member
144 messages
joined Dec 2009
#39 ·
driftingdriver said:@Gregory Howard: There are general forum rules regarding netiquette that demand respect for everyone you talk to, regardless of whether they're right or wrong, or if they happen to be trolls. It isn't up to you to play judge and jury by launching those inappropriate, aggressive ad hominem attacks. That kind of behavior simply isn't tolerated on any decent forum, including this one.

The moderators in the politics section are just enforcing the rules. That’s really all there is to it. If the rules were changed to suit your specific way of communicating, then the mods wouldn't be coming after you for the language you use. Look, I didn't write the rules, but I have to follow them. Rules have to exist; otherwise, you're just left with voluntarism, improvisation, anarchy, and total chaos.

Of course, I’m not the one making the calls—I’m not a mod, for heaven's sake. But I am absolutely entitled to judge. So what? A person should be allowed to have a critical perspective, shouldn't they?

The core issue is that the mods lack any real grasp of basic etiquette. It’s a glaring embarrassment that keeps popping up. They also completely fail to understand nuance when deciding what should be allowed. On the more liberal threads, you see profanity and insults flying around without anyone batting an eye. Honestly, if you want a deep dive on how vulgarity functions in language, go read that brilliant Ladanov piece. As far as expression goes, no sane person finds vulgarity, coarseness, or insults acceptable.

Not on my watch!

It’s a classic scenario: some agitator starts talking absolute nonsense, rambling on and on... and then someone finally tells them exactly where to shove it. Here is how you handle it:

You ban the guy who calls them out, while the provocateur gets a free pass. Typical.

You’re essentially carding and banning both of them.

Labels don't matter here. If someone is attacked and they end up killing their assailant, they get acquitted—provided they didn't overstep the bounds of self-defense. In those kinds of scenarios, the provocateurs and the total jerks on this Reddit thread should be the ones kicked out. The person who was pushed to that point at 3 PM shouldn't face any punishment at all.

And even you guys completely missed the mark on this one. You totally missed the entire field.

The moderators in the politics section are simply enforcing the rules. And that’s that. If the rules were changed to match your specific way of talking, then the mods wouldn't be breathing down your neck over your choice of words. I didn't write the rules. But I have to follow them. Without rules, you just get voluntarism, improvisation, anarchy, and pure chaos.

Give me a break. Those are nothing more than excuses straight out of Mauthausen or Auschwitz.
Jonathan Morales79 Jonathan Morales79 Active Member
85 messages
joined Nov 2009
#40 ·
driftingdriver said:I’m struggling to find anything substantial in what you're saying, aside from a whole lot of noise without any actual substance. Besides, looking at your history, you've only made fifty-three posts total, including this month—do you honestly believe you have a complete grasp on everything wrong with American politics? You don't have a single post on the topic there. Are you some kind of clone?

This time, I actually find myself agreeing with Phoenix... But seriously, what have you ever actually *done* with your life, besides just "talking" without saying anything at all? 😕

driftingdriver said:I don't moderate the former America section. The observer handles that, and I just jump in when necessary—basically, whenever he isn't around. Besides, I’ve only been a moderator in politics for four months, just like the observer. In my view, the politics section has actually improved. But then again, that's just my opinion.

I still remember him as this dear, friendly debater... someone I actually enjoyed going toe-to-toe with. I have no clue what he's like as a moderator over on that former America sub—I rarely ever venture into those parts of Reddit—but back in the day, he was absolutely top-tier in the Politics section... truly excellent... 👍 🙏
Besides that... I've barely even been a moderator on the politics board for four months...

Too much... just way too much...
And I'm of the opinion that politics has actually improved... gotten a bit better, if you ask me... But that’s just me....

🤣 😂
A sad... seriously... 🙂 .

Does anyone actually remember a single post or thread they participated in where the topic didn't just absolutely implode... or where I didn't end up shutting the whole thing down for no reason (usually after I've scrubbed the specific posts that make my entire body of work look like a joke)... or where it didn't just spiral straight into the trash heap? 🤷

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