The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)

Re: RzBrzotrz

Just because something exists in the movie "as reality" versus "as the Matrix" doesn't mean that "reality" is actually the physical world we experience ourselves (even if the idea of "physical" is debatable here, just to make my point...).

Hmm... I think you might be overthinking this one. Honestly, I feel like that’s exactly why the sequels struggle—they leave too many questions unanswered and open too much room for subjective theories, which usually just leads to total confusion. It all boils down to:
Re: newcomer

Reloaded and Revolutions are nothing more than raw, mental sexual frustration.

I totally agree. It feels like one brilliant concept was turned into a cliché good-versus-evil story just to cater to the masses.

Hey!

Re: rapidstag74

Isn't Smith's move into the real world just as naive as Neo's Resurrection or those telekinetic powers he shows off in RW?

Regarding Neo's abilities, you should check out the post on page 3.
Neo's Resurrection in the unit isn't actually as naive as it looks. At the end of the day, everything is happening inside their heads—it's all about an individual's mental strength to tell what's real from what isn't. Self-suggestion is a seriously powerful thing.

rapidstag74 said:Personally, I think Dark City is actually the better movie.

I have to agree, I absolutely love Dark City too (it actually came out before The Matrix, if you recall!).

newcomer said:For me, the big breakthrough concept introduced by The Matrix film was this idea of a parallel world where absolutely anything is possible. I always find myself thinking back to that specific scene where Trinity leaps from one skyscraper to another—that massive, gravity-defying jump—only to have an agent right on her heels immediately after. Nowadays, when I rewatch it, a little bit of 'suspension of disbelief' starts to wear thin, and I can't help but feel a tiny grain of doubt that the whole thing might be a little cheesy or overstretched.
😉

The truth is, Reloaded and Revolutions just don't capture that same "holy crap, this is incredible" sense of wonder that the first movie had. You know that moment in the original where Neo wakes up and looks left and right at all those people tucked away in their cubicles? It makes you realize you're stepping into something entirely fresh and exhilarating.
I remember watching clips and trailers before the release, seeing Neo dodging bullets, and honestly, I thought it was just some flashy visual gimmick. But once I actually sat down to watch the movie, I realized there was actual dramatic weight behind all that action.

Reloaded and Revolutions didn't have that spark, and frankly, they couldn't have, even if they weren't completely devoid of fresh concepts. It's just that their ideas didn't carry that same kind of impact for a general audience—people who aren't necessarily looking to dive deep into Gnosticism, metaphysics, or complex systems theory...
Personally, I really dug the concepts of the anomaly and control in Reloaded, along with rogue programs like Merovingya and the dynamic between the Architect / Oracle.... though I have to admit my enthusiasm for Revolutions kind of fizzled out after a few days.
Still, there's plenty of credit left for the first film (definitely more) and Revolutions (a bit less), so I'm not exactly throwing a fit about it. 🙂

Richard Hernandez13 said:I've got a soft spot for Dark City too (it actually came out before The Matrix).

True.
Those villains in Dark City are unsettling. Reminds me of Smith.

Anyway, Proyas is working on I, Robot now. Maybe he’d be more interested in avoiding certain facts... like casting Will Smith.

Almost as bad as Ben Affleck in "Paycheck".

I read somewhere that the producers at Warner Bros. actually wanted Will Smith for the role of Neo.
So much for Hollywood being full of mysterious paths. 😁

rapidstag74 said:Yeah.
Those villains from Dark City are absolutely terrifying. And man, that Smith was something else.

It's actually pretty cool how Bruce Spence, who played Mr. Wall in Revolutions, also played the Trainman.
And don't forget his role as the LOTR Mouth of Sauron!

That is quite an impressive run of roles. 😁

... but wait, rapidstag74, have you even actually seen Revolutions? 😁

Agent Smith, after committing something that is pure evil (tm):

"Muhahahahah !!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!"

<clenches his fist, throwing his head back>

"MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!11

I believe I have said everything necessary regarding the film. Good night.

Look, if you're just sitting around on a lazy Sunday afternoon and suddenly around 3:00 PM an idea hits you like, “Hey, since I'm already running errands around Los Angeles, I might as well catch Captain Mifune and the charge of the Zion cavalry,” just STOP. Seriously. Make yourself some coffee, turn on the TV, and actually think about whether sprinting across town for a movie is even worth the hassle. Don't make the same mistake I did.

Since I tend to make impulsive decisions sometimes, I grabbed my phone immediately and booked a ticket for 5:30 PM.

I rolled into Grand Central Station at 4:20 PM, which meant I had forty minutes to get over to Broadway, pick up my ticket, sprint back to Grand Central where I had to deal with some guy acting like he was a total anime fanatic, and then power-walk back toward Broadway so I wouldn't miss the opening credits.

Needless to say, this whole run was done entirely on foot because, as always happens when I'm in a rush, there wasn't a single streetcar running between Grand Central and Ban Square.

To cut a long story short, I managed to make it to Broadway with about ten minutes to spare, though I spent most of that time on the second-floor stairs gasping for air and sweating buckets from the frantic pace.

A pleasant surprise popped up when I spotted our esteemed forum regular casualot21 🙂 buying tickets for his friends, also for “Captain Mifune and the charge of the Zion cavalry.” After a quick hello and some extra hype about how we'd be tearing this movie apart on the forum later, I headed into the theater and waited for the show to start.

Of course, nothing went smoothly, not even inside the theater. Some jerk sat in my seat and stubbornly insisted that HE was in the right spot, even though it was blatantly obvious he was wrong. Whatever, though—since I'm not the type to argue with people in a half-empty cinema, I just sat in the seat that actually belonged to his girlfriend, and problem solved. Naturally, it felt like bad luck wanted me sandwiched between two couples. Luckily, one of them moved quickly (probably a sign that my sweat had done its 😁 work).

After a few trailers for some terrible movies (except for that one about Troy), the volume kicked up, and the movie I thank God I only paid $6.75 for finally began.

In my next post, I'll give my full review of the movie. It will contain SPOILERS, obviously, so don't come crying to me saying I didn't warn you.

My take on the film will be a bit of a play-by-play, peppered with my own random thoughts along the way.

Captain Mifune is out there chasing down the Zion cavalry.

I have to say, I actually liked the beginning of the movie. It was surprisingly good. It picks up right where that pile of trash that was Reloaded left off, and everyone seems totally wired, yet they still maintain that cold, Matrix-like vibe. While everyone else is out there frantically searching for Neo within the Matrix, it turns out he’s just lying there on an operating table. 🙄.

Even in those opening scenes, Captain Hammer really stood out to me as the best character in the entire movie. I can't quite remember his name, unfortunately, but in my humble opinion, he was definitely the most believable person on screen.

No, everything good is short-lived because you know exactly what comes next: that scene where Neo is just sprawled out on the floor of some subway station while this girl stands over him. I remember thinking, "Bad move." Seriously, what was the director thinking, pairing Keanu Reeves with some inexperienced kid? As if it wasn't enough that Keanu can't act—at least in my opinion regarding these two Matrix films—but now they have to highlight it by having some random girl totally outshine him in the acting department... geez.

And then, almost out of nowhere, we get this father figure for that little Indian girl—let's just call him Apu, after that guy from the Simpsons who runs the Quickmart.

So, APA starts trying to explain things to Neo—you know, why he's even there and all that deep philosophical stuff—while Neo just sits there giving him this totally Homer-like look, clearly having no clue what's going on. And while those two are busy overanalyzing things that are completely irrelevant to the entire fucking Matrix, I can't help but notice this little girl of Indian descent. I have to say, she's easily the best part of the whole damn movie. 👍 (Yeah, yeah, I actually like her better than Monica.)

Meanwhile….

Morpheus and Trinka head off to see the Oracle just so the audience can sit there and think, “This has to be the most boring, poorly executed dialogue in cinematic history... PERIOD.” It’s the same old story, really—they try so hard to act all cool and mysterious, but in the end, it just feels incredibly lame. 🙂

So, I guess Morpheus and Trinka eventually realize they need to find some bum to bring Neo back, BUT NOOOOOOOO… even that bum isn't exactly a heavy hitter. He’s just some guy who only listens to his boss—that charming French guy from Reloaded (let's call him Pierre from now on). So, Morpheus, Trinka, and that would-be Jet Li head over to Pierre to figure out what they actually have to do to get Neo back.

Personally, I was pretty stoked about Pierre, mostly because wherever he shows up, Monica follows. Unfortunately, aside from her great figure, we didn't actually get to see much of Monica at all.

Meanwhile…

It’s like Neo is just some rat running around in a cage at Grand Central Station.

Meanwhile...

Morpheus, Trinka, and some guy who thinks he’s the next Jet Li are all leaning on Pierre to let Neo go. And then, wouldn't you know it, he actually does it.

Now, any sane viewer would probably assume everything up to this point was just setting the stage for the actual movie, but NOOOOOOOO... this is where we hit the boring, pathetic part. This is when Neo heads off to see the Oracle—who, by the way, looks like she went under the knife for a facelift and aged about ten years since The Matrix Reloaded, plus she's looking a bit lighter in complexion (not that I'm being racist here or anything)—just so she can drone on and on about choice and all that same old stuff again.

This might actually be my biggest gripe with The Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions. There is just way, way too much unnecessary dialogue. I mean, we all know exactly what the Oracle is going to tell Neo before she even opens her mouth, but for some reason, they feel the need to drag it out through ten different pointless sentences between the two of them.

Around that time, I started wondering if it’s actually nice up there hanging out with the crew at GNN. They’re probably just making fun of the movie and having a blast, while I’m stuck here between two shifts. It feels pretty crappy to be bursting out laughing at the nonsense on screen when I know I shouldn't—I don't want to break their intense concentration.

Anyway, from those last few scenes I was describing until that part where Smith, using that Zion guy's body, tries to kill Trinka and Neo, my memory just goes totally blank. I might have actually passed out or something. I think I only woke up when that one woman suddenly jerked, and then she kind of hit her hand a bit. Honestly, her tongue would’ve probably fallen right out of her mouth if she’d tried to say, “Sorry for waking you guys up.” 🙄 ).

Basically, Smith is holding Trinka hostage while Neo is standing there with a plasma rifle, totally capable of just blasting them both and ending the whole mess... BUT NOOOOOOOO. That would be way too lame and completely out of character for them. Instead, our guy Neo and Agent Smith decide to settle things with a classic showdown, kind of like an old-school Western duel, which ends with Neo getting blinded because Smith hits him right in the face with some electrical blast.

At that exact moment, I couldn't help but crack a smile, mostly because it reminded me of that scene in Bloodsport where they throw a coin in Van Damme's eye, except this guy can still perceive everything around him. Meanwhile, Neo actually starts seeing—not with actual eyes, but more like these specters of light... I mean, WTF was that? So now he's seeing without eyes? Just wonderful. It honestly reminded me of that line from the Superbike theme song, you know, "is there nothing that she cannot do."

To be honest, up until this point, I found the movie incredibly dull and slow. But then came the segment that actually drew me in to watch this third installment of The Matrix: the defense of Zion.

I don't want to bore anyone with trivialities regarding the scenes leading up to the battle, so I'll just ask this quickly: Is it just me, or does one of the women on the Zion Council look exactly like the actress who played Datini's mother in that one episode of TNG—you know, the one where it turns out she was an android? The lady with the gray hair.

Anyway, the Machines have almost broken through to Zion, and that's when our Captain Mifune and his crew step up to defend it.

First off, I have to say I am absolutely disappointed in the APUima (hey, there's another Apu 😁). What kind of mechs are these used to save Zion? It's just nonsense. The pilot is totally exposed, and don't even get me started on the maneuverability, which is basically zero.

But fine, I guess the basic function of these mechs is clearly to spit out 10,000 bullets per second, so maybe it doesn't matter how slow they are.

Otherwise, the actual battle for Zion is well-made. Even though there are a few unrealistic and pathetic moments, I honestly can't find a single complaint. There's plenty of action, plenty of squids getting blasted, and we get to follow a badass Niobe as she chases Hammer through some sort of "mechanical tube" (whatever that was). It was really good and intense.

It's not that I think these scenes are masterpieces—they didn't exactly blow me away—but they were entertaining enough to wake me up.

And as usual, our heroes repel the first wave of the attack, but unfortunately, our great hero Captain Mifune gives his life for Zion. That might actually be the only touching scene in the whole movie. (Anyone who's seen it knows how bad the scene actually is, but compared to the rest, it's Oscar-worthy.)

Meanwhile...

Neo and Trinka arrive at Machine City, where Neo has to find some authority figure and negotiate a truce. This is followed by a series of religious, overly dramatic scenes that made my stomach turn, all leading up to the best part: TRINKA DIES... yay. 🙂

Oh God, what a terrible scene. I think I repeated "Just die already, man, JUST DIE" to myself at least N times. Maybe I even said it out loud a few times because people kept turning to look at me.

The funniest part was when Neo says, "We're here," and she replies, "I'm not going anywhere," followed by that subtle transition to the shot of Trinka's frigid body pierced by several of those... hm... what should we call them... tentacles? 🤔 Anyways, the girl delivers one long monologue that would make even King Lear ashamed of its length, and finally, she stretches her legs, while I'm sitting there thinking, "Is it polite to clap in the middle of a movie theater?"

Meanwhile...

Back in Zion, they are preparing for the second wave of attacks, and all hopes are pinned on Neo...

Meanwhile...

Neo stumbles out of that ship like a blind bat.

Now, this reminded me of a great gag from Mel Brooks. It would have been a killer joke if Neo was just stumbling around the ship blindly looking for the exit... you know, by cutting back and forth between the scenes of Zion and Neo.

In Zion, Zion Morpheus says, "I believe in Neo; he will save us all," followed by a quick cut to Neo slamming his head against the ceiling and pipes of the ship because he can't see where he's going, all while muttering curses under his breath like, "Damn that Trinka. She could have told me which way to exit this damn ship instead of giving that Halmet monologue."

But hey, since the W. brothers aren't exactly known for their sense of humor (at least not intentionally), Neo quickly makes his way out of the ship and goes to find the authorities in Machine City.

Once again, we get anthology-style scenes, this time reminiscent of The Wizard of Oz. I mean, come on, didn't that Machine that appears before Neo and forms a face using the squids remind anyone else? It asks Neo in that deep voice, "What is it you want?" I half expected Neo to say "Eyes" and start singing one of those songs the Scarecrow, Tin Man, or Lion used to sing.

So, because of some absolute miracle, Neo asks for "peace," and the Oracle basically says, "You're a good kid, so I'll give you a shot." And just like that, the central conflict of the whole movie kicks off: Neo vs. Smith.

DORAGONBOL ZEDU DESU

Seriously, that fight between Neo and Smith looked exactly like that. The only thing missing was them firing off Kamehamehas or Dragon Blasts from their hands, and then we would’ve had straight-up DBZ.

But not quite. We all know how it goes in DBZ—Goku takes a beating first, then stands up and goes, "Is that all you got? My turn," but here, our Neo (Neo = Goku) just keeps getting his ass kicked. I mean, it wasn't even cool.

Anyway, I really hope Akira Toriyama sues them for copyright infringement and forces them to hand over all the movie profits to the Japanese creators. They could probably use that cash to make their own massive screw-ups, like Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions, or some Evangelion live-action movie...

...but I digress.

Whatever, there are still a few decent scenes coming up where Smith actually looks awesome, to the point where I start rooting for him, but then unfortunately he just splatters everywhere along with Neo, and that’s the end of the movie.

Oh, I forgot, that's not quite the end... we still have the W brothers trying to convince us that the crap we watched in Reloaded and Revolutions is actually a masterpiece if we just believe hard enough... FAT CHANCE. I honestly hope they never film another movie again.

Now I'm going to go watch AniMatrix and The Matrix film and try to erase every memory of those last two movies from my brain.

Despite all the flaws in these movies... I think the biggest issue with The Matrix lies in its core concept itself.

Why on earth would an AI feel the need to blanket the entire planet in machines? Wouldn't an AI's existence be much more efficient within bio-chips rather than tons of heavy metal?
What’s the point of having a billion squids when the only actual threat to the AI is a handful of people in Zion?
If humans actually polluted the sky... couldn't the AI have figured out a way to disperse the clouds and just switch over to solar power during those centuries (was it 1,000? 5,000 years?)—effectively getting rid of the whole annoying human burden in one go?

The movie ends up asking a million questions simply because the script clashes with basic common sense.

I didn't find Revolutions to be all that bad—until those final ten minutes hit.
That messianic ending for Neo is quite possibly the worst way you could wrap this up.
I'm still a bit confused by the dialogue during the scene where Neo dies and the machines carry him away (to some kind of pedestal?)... the camera frames it as if Neo is watching the whole thing from outside his own body.
Does that imply he was ascended to heaven?
Yikes.

Quote : Icepick Says

Nephrite says Sophia Brown78 said:Hey, just dropping a Matrix link here for a little bit of fun and to clear your heads.

Check this out... http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com...esolutions.html

Aren't they just brilliant? Seriously, I find myself hitting up that site every single day.

Yeah... honestly, I’ve spent way too much time at the office just totally zoning out. They have some seriously killer sales going on right now. 😁

Quote : Icepick Says

Quote : Icepick Says And pretty soon, you’ve got this guy showing up—the dad of that little Indian girl. We're gonna call him Apu from now on, just like that dude from the Simpsons who runs the local 7-Eleven.

👍 👍 👍
Haha, yeah, that was pretty much our first take on him too. 😁

So, my brother finally sat down and watched it, and honestly? He and his girlfriend actually liked it. She’s this super devout Christian girl who basically has the Bible memorized, and he’s the type of guy who never watches anything unless it’s sitting in the action section at Blockbuster. But hey, even they thought it wasn't half bad. There are definitely people out there who just want one solid, high-octane shootout to call a movie "cool," and I guess they fit that bill. Still, even they're saying M2 and M3 don't even come close to the original Matrix.

And they honestly think M2 and M3 don't even come close to the original Matrix...

🤔 isn't that the one single conclusion everyone actually agrees on???

😁

btw. : Quote : Icepick Says, brilliant!!! seriously, props to you for finally coming back down to earth 😉

Look, she’s just some devout Christian who happens to have the Bible memorized.

Wait, don't Christians constantly push back against the Matrix? If I remember correctly, there was even an official statement out of Vatican City the other day calling the Matrix out. So, how can she be this "devout Christian" if she's basically going against the Pope?

blueranger13 said:Why on earth would an AI need to cover the entire planet in machines... wouldn't an AI's existence be perfectly fine living inside bio-chips instead of tons of heavy metal?
I mean, why bother with a billion Sentinels when the only real threat to the AI is just some ragtag group of rebels in Zion?

It’s basically just the leftovers of a war between machines and hardware. You still see the resistance movement operating right up there on the surface.

blueranger13 said:If humans were the ones who polluted the sky... couldn't the AI have figured out a way to disperse those clouds over all those years—maybe a thousand or five thousand years?—and just switch over to solar power to get rid of the whole pesky human burden?

Well, having a darkened, gloomy sky actually has a huge psychological impact on the survivors. Besides, the Matrix was essentially a peace treaty or a settlement reached between humanity and the machines.

Alright, Richard Hernandez13...

But look, I’m not just insulting the idea of viewing AI as some big pile of machines.
Plenty of authors have tackled this with much more nuance.
Banks, for instance, envisions them as a collection of independent AIs tucked away within a singularity, coexisting alongside humans in a sort of digital community.
Simmons takes an even more subtle approach by focusing on the actual transfer of her hardware.
Personally, though? The whole concept of stacking a billion machines across the Earth's crust feels like total nonsense to me.

If you're referring to the human survivors from the Antimatrix...
It seems to me that any surface resistance was wiped off the map ages ago, since the Matrix doesn't mention a thing about it.
That whole episode regarding the resistance on the surface in the Antimatrix probably took place centuries—maybe even millennia—before the movie even starts.

That ending where the Architect tells the Oracle he isn't human—and that's why he sticks to his word—really supports the idea that the Matrix has always functioned as a negotiated agreement.
But still...
Where does this idea come from—that an AI, as a self-contained intelligence, is incapable of lying or adapting to its own needs?

I'm not saying the entire premise of the movie is garbage... but they really could have struck a better balance between a script for the general audience and one that actually satisfies the hardcore sci-fi fans.

...rather than just some cookie-cutter script designed for the masses...

blueranger13 said:That scene at the end where the Architect tells Oracle he isn't human—and that’s why he sticks to his word—really drives home the idea that The Matrix has always functioned as a sort of negotiated agreement.
But...
Where does the notion come from that an AI, as an independent intelligence, is incapable of lying or adapting to its own shifting needs?

It’s probably just a matter of principle; they might have realized that being honest and ethical actually works—basically, the wheels of history turned, and they learned something new (which is pretty much what Oracle is touching on at the very end).

blueranger13 said:I’m not saying the whole concept of the movie is garbage... but I really feel like they could have struck a better balance between a script meant for the general public and one specifically tailored for hardcore Sci-Fi fans.

I think the issue stems from the fact that you tend to view Sci-Fi primarily through the lens of literature, whereas a Sci-Fi film follows its own set of rules since it’s a completely different medium.

Personally, I think the trilogy manages to touch on some really profound ideas. For instance, even in the original The Matrix, there’s this sense that the Machines and humans are living in a kind of symbiotic relationship.

Richard Hernandez13 said:Bruce Spence played Mr. Wall in The Matrix Reloaded and he's the Trainman.
And the Mouth of Sauron in LOTR.

Quite the resume. 😁

... anyway, rapidstag74, have you even seen Revolutions? 😁

Don't quote me on this, but I think he had a cameo in Star Wars: Episode III too.

Apparently, if you want to land roles in today's biggest blockbusters, you just have to live in Australia.

He was even in Mad Max. What a guy. 😁

And yes, I've seen Revolutions. 😁
But making up fake dialogue is way more entertaining than that movie.

A murky sky has a psychological impact on survivors. Besides, The Matrix was essentially a treaty—a peace agreement between humans and the Machines.

Since they all live underground, that psychological effect is somewhat moot.
Also, those clouds sit at about 100 meters. Couldn't the Machines just build solar towers ABOVE the clouds?

@Melissa Moore32 🙏 Legend.

Sci-Fi films operate under a different set of rules—it's just a completely different beast altogether.

It’s pretty obvious that the primary rule of any big-budget Sci-Fi flick is simple: get that investment back with as much profit as possible.
That’s the bedrock of it all.
Everything else is just extra fluff.
In fact, the whole nature of the genre actually pushed William Gibson to create a bit of a caricature of his own work in >.

Now, I'm not saying > is garbage... but did anyone here actually feel a bit let down by how things played out during the sequels and all that hype surrounding them after the first movie?

On another note... was the deal described in > supposed to last forever, or what?