Living with schizophrenia

Bradley Fisher20, don't get worked up. You've got a great topic here, it just doesn't belong in this sub. 👋

It feels like you're arguing for leaving people with schizophrenia without any therapy at all. How exactly is someone supposed to live their life like that? Who are they meant to rely on, or even who’s going to make sure they eat? I'm curious. I get that you're against medication because of the side effects, but honestly, what's the better alternative here?

Prologue

The framework I'm using to look at health and schizophrenia is based on about 40 pop-science articles and 10 actual scientific papers, plus direct contact with around 20 different psychiatric cases, 15 psychiatrists, and other pros in the field. Plus, messing around with "other" worlds—think hallucinogens, lucid dreaming, meditation—has brought me closer to the stuff that absolutely terrifies and confuses most people out there...

During my research, I got a much better look at how social institutions actually drive science, why they fail so often, and how they constantly dodge the kind of new treatment approaches we desperately need. So, yeah. I’m a total amateur here, but the info I've gathered gives me enough ground to say what I think. And hey, I’m totally down to listen to anyone who can actually add something useful to this conversation. Since I clearly don't know every single tiny detail, please, correct me. Just don't totally dismiss some random guy's theory right out of the gate...

Introduction

Modern science doesn't have an answer for schizophrenia. They don't even know what it *is*. All modern psychiatric science can wrap its head around is "that it's a severe mental illness resulting from disrupted brain biochemistry."

Right off the bat, I see the flaw. That statement just completely ignores the feedback loop between the mind and the body. Honestly, it might be more accurate to say that the consequence of this illness is disrupted brain biochemistry*...

"What causes schizophrenia, how does it trigger the onset, and what dictates the course, prognosis, and outcome remains a massive mystery," psychiatrists say. Well, here's my take...

There’s definitely multiple mechanisms working together to cause this syndrome. A classic one is when there's a massive clash between the external world and the internal one. Because the person can't successfully face reality, their personality fractures, and those standard psychological filters just collapse under the pressure. In that state, the line between dreams and reality vanishes. Depending on how wide those doors are swung open, the dream world starts bleeding into real life. The more that happens, the harder it is to fix...

Because otherwise, you just end up with total chaos. That's when a person stops being a functioning individual...

Then you've got the example of a slow personality decay—which I think is what happened with Kenneth Hill37. But the end result is the same: a collision with a superior force. Anyway, that's when someone slowly and steadily drifts into their own world. Because they can't or won't deal with the outside world, their inner world has to use more and more tricks and maneuvers just to stay afloat. You have to successfully integrate these two worlds. But this trend inevitably causes a drift, leading to that final showdown where the inner world wins. Basically, the person stops being functional. It's an acute attack...

There's also childhood schizophrenia, where the genetic material—basically the brain's physiology—just isn't equipped to process information systematically, which leads to mental chaos...

I'd point to a genetic predisposition there. But I wouldn't call it a purely genetic disease, since the odds of it repeating in identical twins is only about 50%. That's pretty low, honestly. What we really see is that certain psychological profiles are just more prone to personality fragmentation...

You can see the principle of the "power of simplicity" here—the average Joe simply isn't capable of maintaining such an imaginary world while drifting away. So, for an average person, it's not a big deal. But for people inclined toward higher intellectual spheres, it's incredibly easy to veer off track if even one thing goes wrong. It's a natural human mechanism called the "easy way." Unfortunately, the easy way is often irreversible. Heh, looks like schizophrenia might actually be an autoimmune disease of the CNS 🙂.

Alright, I'm gonna break down the symptoms of this disorder I'm dealing with... Right here...

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"Delusional ideas... they're just these totally illogical, surreal, and bizarre thoughts that you can't fix by arguing or throwing facts at them. It doesn't matter how much you try to correct them because they're basically just a reflection of a broken perception of reality. The patient clings to them even harder and starts acting like they're actually happening..."

I’ve actually got first-hand experience with this shit, since I'm a total mess... 😎First off, illogicality and being totally detached from reality? That’s basically standard procedure for most people. Second, those weird-ass ideas actually require a creative spirit. Third, if someone isn't willing to ditch their own little world and let go of their illusions, they just aren't gonna do it. Honestly, that’s totally normal too. The only real difference is where you draw the line on what society finds acceptable... BTW, that crew selling those magnetic blankets doesn't exactly fall under the category of health and schizophrenia, though they seriously could... 🙂So, to wrap this part up... we're talking about a natural mechanism that just gets "misused" by an individual. And the whole reason for that "misuse"? It all comes down to society... basically, the environment you're stuck in...
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Illusions and hallucinations... man, they happen way too often. It’s heavy stuff when someone dealing with schizophrenia starts seeing things that just aren't there. Most of the time it's auditory—hearing voices and all that—which is pretty classic for schizophrenia. But it doesn't stop there either. You've got hallucinations involving physical sensations, touch, smell, taste, or... vida...

This probably sounds pretty weird to you guys. But seriously, once that filter I mentioned earlier breaks down, you get hit with this whole spectrum of stuff. Just try going three days without sleep and you'll see what I mean... Now, when someone starts having hallucinations, society just treats them like the enemy, which only pushes them further away from reality. It’s just one more reason for people to retreat into an imaginary world. Honestly, looking at this cluster of symptoms, it feels like psychiatry has the whole approach completely wrong. I remember reading an article maybe 6 or 7 years ago that said exactly what I believe... about facing it head-on and finding a middle ground with the hallucinations instead of just living in fear and running away. I'd actually love to hear from you all on this... how is modern psychiatry even dealing with this stuff today?
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Those freaking identity disorders... where you just lose touch with who you even are... It’s like you lose any sense of ownership over your own damn desires, your moods, or even your own actions... It feels like someone else is reaching inside your head, snatching your thoughts away or forcing them on you, making you feel like you're being driven to act against your will or something...

Hehe. You guys really should've tried harder... Anyway, I’d say what we're seeing here is just exposing the massive gap between the conscious and subconscious mind, and then this desperate attempt at "rationalizing" the sensation. Since we clearly can't control this stuff, we'll just happily slap a label on it like it's some kind of foreign object invading us...
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When you start losing your grip on where you end and the rest of the world begins... everything just blurs together. You feel like you're merging with literally anything—an object, a tree, the whole damn universe... it's wild...

🙂 All in all, it’s pretty obvious that once someone gets lost... like, truly lost... they start feeling this whole spectrum of stuff, like depersonalization and whatever. And when those feelings start getting deeper? It drags you into a headspace that’s honestly hard for a normal person to even wrap their mind around...

The total lack of insight and zero ability to see how sick they actually are... that’s basically the hallmark of every single psychotic disorder out there. You’ve got people with schizophrenia who will straight up deny they’re even ill, refusing to touch their meds or any kind of hospital stay they're offered. It's just constant...

Look. If we’re accepting the fact that people just dodge reality as long as they can—until they actually have to deal with it—then this whole ignoring thing makes total sense. Honestly, watching "normal" people react when I throw their precious little dogmas right in their faces... it's the exact same pattern. Don't touch it until it's critical. They'll always scramble to find some massive list of excuses just to stay tucked away in their comfort zone... Oh, and yeah. I guess when those nasty attacks finally hit and they lose that safety net, these patients are more than happy to go get "treated." Only problem is, all they'll find waiting for them there are sick psychiatrists... 😢.
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The level of denial is all over the place... like, some people actually recognize they're sick but then they just downplay the symptoms to make it seem like no big deal. And then you get those extreme cases where they straight up deny they ever had any mental health issues at all. They refuse to cooperate with doctors or any kind of treatment, and they just claim everything is some kind of persecution or punishment... ridiculous...

It’s a totally normal thing. Seriously, people... if you aren't even aware of those mechanisms happening inside your own head, you're lucky you haven't gone completely off the rails... 😉.
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Withdrawing from reality... autism is basically just this schizophrenic retreat into your own little magical world filled with fantasy, symbols, desires, and fears...

Safety...

It can show up in all sorts of ways, you know? Like, a total break from reality isn't even that common... But usually, while someone is drifting away or just straight-up running from what's actually happening, they're also desperately trying to cling to or claw back that reality they lost in the first place...

Yeah, exactly. That’s where I feel like everyone needs to step up and give it their all. Show people the way, answer the damn questions, and all that... Honestly. It’s really just about reducing entropy in a system. But you can't help anyone if you can't tell the difference between actual information and just straight-up garbage... Or if you can't point out the methods to actually get it done...
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3. Total mental breakdown and personality disintegration—we’re talking chaotic thoughts, zero logic, just complete mess... everything is scattered, blurry, or basically impossible to follow. Then there's that weird detachment where they spout ideas or act out with totally cold, inappropriate emotions that would make any sane person lose it (like laughing while talking about death)... stuff that should make you happy makes them miserable, and vice versa. It’s like their face doesn't match what they're feeling at all—they'll be smiling while they're actually depressed. You get these conflicting emotions hitting them all at once toward people, things, or whatever situation they're in. And the behavior? It swings wildly from acting like a goofy kid to this unpredictable, agitated, high-strung mess... honestly, it gets to the point where they can't even handle basic daily life...

Pure chaos. Just disconnecting from reality and losing any way to get decent feedback from the world around you.

"a significant drop in responsiveness to the environment, or an exaggerated, maladaptive reactivity combined with psychomotor hyperactivity; bizarre, unnatural movements or postures that can look totally grotesque; mechanical, repetitive patterns of movement, actions, or speech, or staying stuck in the exact same body position over and over..."

It’s like a closed loop—a desperate attempt to feel safe. Kind of like living in a bunker in 😁 Chicago.

"emotional impoverishment—they come off as cold, distant people who just don't care about what's happening around them; they can't adjust their feelings to new situations; facial expressions and eye contact fade away or vanish entirely;
the ability to actually enjoy things or feel pleasure disappears in more and more situations and activities that normal people find fun."

That’s just what happens when you drift away from the world.

"weakened will—the inability to start or maintain goal-oriented behavior."

This is the part where psychological work becomes absolutely necessary if you actually want to fight this disorder effectively. I mean, the only way to stop this cycle is to build up a sovereign personality—someone who actually has authority over themselves and strength when the fear and panic hit. Something that should have happened a long time ago, because if it had, this whole mess might not have even happened in the first place! I honestly think if you could actually develop a strong sense of self, you wouldn't feel that desperate need to run away from reality into some imaginary world. How to actually pull that off... well, that's the core question of real psychotherapy, IMHO.

Bradley Fisher20, why are you so obsessed with health and schizophrenia? Do you know someone dealing with it?

P.S. 👋

To keep going...

Let's take a look at paranoid schizophrenics for a second. The classic profile usually goes like this: educated, smart, dissatisfied, haters, middle-aged...

I'm gonna throw out some scenarios here just to build a model. Take Kenneth Hernandez67’s uncle, for example. Guy lives with his mom. Middle-aged. I bet you he's just totally lost himself in it. Zero discipline. Life is just one big routine. He's constantly haunted by this deep dissatisfaction. He doesn't have the backbone to actually face life head-on, so he starts losing himself in his own little world as an alternative. Over time, that world gets stronger and swallows him whole. Eventually, he hits those breaking points where he just loses total control...

And that scares him. Look, people are basically cowards. As long as they can find a way to run from the damn facts, they’re gonna run. And they just get weaker for it. They start building these new mental systems just to protect their illusions—systems they were probably pretty good at maintaining at first—but after a while, everything slips away from their control. The threshold is invisible...

After a certain point, because that core barrier between dreams and reality breaks down, this open channel causes the personality to rapidly decay.

Schizophrenia syndrome? Hallucinations, voices, feelings of power, non-existent characters, even catatonia. All of that is perfectly normal until it breaks through. Until it takes over. And it *has* broken through.

Alright, now here's the heavy part. Something I've noticed with religious people dealing with schizophrenia. These people are still human. Because schizophrenics are always looking for a home base. Security. They gravitate toward religion. But religion is fundamentally at odds with the world. So, because of this new rift—this clash between the massive security faith provides and reality as a direct image of the truth—the person gets even more lost. It descends into chaos. They get even more terrified and they grasp even harder. It just spirals worse and worse...

This shows how sensitive schizophrenic personalities really are. Kind of like me 🙂. And while a "normal" person might be able to handle playing both sides and stay functional, a schizophrenic just can't pull that off.

Anyway, enough projecting. Let's talk solutions.

Schizophrenics have a mess in their heads. And they have to clear it out. They need methods to help them distinguish reality from illusion. That's how we get things back on track—by steering things in the right direction. There are all sorts of techniques used in lucid dreaming that I think could be applied during these episodes.

Another thing is connecting with other people and their experiences fighting the illness. Like, you think you're Jesus. Then you meet five other "Jesuses." And suddenly you realize that feeling isn't unique to you. That kind of realization humbles you a bit.

I'm talking about that sensitivity to "playing both sides" that schizophrenic types have. This double game doesn't have to be religious. It can be the conflict between an internal sense of justice and the actual reality User123 experienced. Because they can't reconcile those two stories—actually, because those two stories are in blatant conflict—we end up with a war inside ourselves. But everything can be integrated if there is Truth 🙂.

Anyway, you need explanations that tie everything into a coherent whole. Because once the whole picture makes sense, that internal conflict—which is the main driver behind developing schizophrenia—disappears.

Moving on.

To fix the mental chaos caused by the "subconscious" breaking through, you have to build up personal power and self-belief. You need that strength to push through existing barriers and climb that mental gradient.

And one more thing. You have to face your problem head-on. Solve it. Accept it, or rather, harmonize the different worlds.

Off course, this is just my sketch of how schizophrenia works. And my sketch of how to solve it. Because "medication" only puts shackles on the mind to stop it from flying too far away, and to prevent it from increasing the existing noise.

Of course, meds don't reduce the noise, which is why schizophrenia is considered incurable. But the noise CAN be reduced, and that's what needs to happen.

Summary:
- gotta find some legit info to fix this internal war going on inside me.
- need to work on my faith, just to get enough fuel for this long-haul healing process -->
- gotta use my own willpower and focus methods to clear out all the garbage cluttering up my head.

Fucking easy, right? 😎

Bradley Fisher20 said:It seems like schizophrenia might actually be an autoimmune disorder of the CNS.

I completely missed the connection regarding autoimmune diseases.

Bradley Fisher20 said:The difference really just comes down to what society considers acceptable behavior. By the way, those people peddling magnetic blankets definitely shouldn't be categorized under health and schizophrenia, though they probably could 🙂.

If you strip everything away and look at it through pure logic without adding extra noise, that’s pretty much the reality of it.

Magnetic blankets? Give me a break—what kind of mental shift does it take to fall for that stuff? 😉

Meanwhile, we have all these people who are just hyper-sensitive or possess a certain mental intensity, and society finds it incredibly easy to slap all sorts of labels and diagnoses on them.

In all honesty, based on my limited experience, the entire art world basically functions as a spectrum of health and schizophrenia according to our precious societal norms.🙄 --

Which is, frankly, absolute, arrogant idiocy.

Creative, imaginative people with deep sensitivity are simply built that way—they aren't "schizophrenics," despite how often I hear "normal" people try to label them as such. Without them, the peak of human spiritual achievement would probably just be staring blankly at daytime soap operas.

Bradley Fisher20, interesting points.

And notice how immediately people react—instantly trying to draw parallels or asking, "Hey Bradley, do you have this? Does anyone else have this?" and so on...

But no, I'll answer for him—Bradley Fisher20 uses his "thought box" with a lot more intensity than most people use their hair gel.

Cheers.🙂

I think Bradley Fisher20 is actually interested in health and schizophrenia, because you can really see how terrifyingly powerful the mind is here.😉

Or rather, her merging with those "forces of nature," as someone once pointed out a long time ago...

I know quite a bit about this illness, but maybe not EVERYTHING 🙂

So if anyone knows anything... please just write it down!!
Anything you know, please

🙂

Morgan Nelson2, when you start a new thread, maybe take a quick second to check if someone else hasn't already started one on the same topic...

Casey Palmer5 said:Morgan Nelson2, before you start a new thread, maybe check if there's already one open on the same topic.

🙂 oh man, my bad!!
I'll definitely look closer next time! 😁

shadowfalcon33 said:I totally missed the mark with that autoimmune disease analogy.

Basically, the brain just starts tearing itself apart because it's way too sensitive to certain outside triggers. That's my best guess anyway...

Nathaniel said:While people who are just hyper-sensitive and have a stronger mental connection—that's how I like to put it—get tossed into all kinds of diagnostic categories way too easily...

The difference is actually pretty simple. If you can still function in society, you're "normal." If you can't, then you're "sick."

Creative people, folks with massive imaginations and intense sensitivity in every sense of the word—they're just THAT KIND OF PERSON (not schizophrenics, which is what I hear "normal" people label them as all the time). Without people like that, the world would basically just be staring at daytime soaps thinking they've reached the peak of spiritual enlightenment.

Those kinds of people only become schizophrenics when their first real episode hits and they start running around like maniacs. That’s when they lose the battle, and honestly, usually the whole damn war. Because nobody ever gave them any weapons to fight back with... 🙂.

And one more thing. I’d much rather you attack me than try to praise me. I'm used to being the punching bag... 🙂.

Nathaniel said:Honestly, based on what I know, the whole art scene—by all our society's standards—is basically just one big spectrum of schizophrenics.🙄--that's how they see it.

It’s absolute, arrogant nonsense.

Creative, imaginative people with deep sensitivity—those types of people are simply WHO THEY ARE (not schizophrenics, which is a label I hear "normal" people throw around all the time). Without them, the world would just be staring at daytime soap operas thinking they've reached the pinnacle of spiritual achievement.

Calling everyone who is sensitive or artistic a schizophrenic is pure, arrogant stupidity. 🙄
Nathaniel, the whole world isn't blind, and not everyone who isn't an "artist" is some stupid, primitive moron like you. Don't try to diagnose people or lecture us on psychiatry; just stick to your little stories, since you seem so good at those. You definitely have your fans. 🎉

Bradley Fisher20, interesting posts.

And look at how people react to you—immediately jumping to comparisons, like "Bradley Fisher20, do you have this?" or "Does anyone else have that?" and so on...

No, let me answer that—Bradley Fisher20 uses his "brain box" way more intensely than others use theirs for hair styling.

Aha! Someone stepped on your toes! Or maybe you just stepped on your own. That's called paranoia. People can't even ask a simple question anymore without being condescendingly brushed off with "oh, look at the kind of people you surround yourself with." You're seeing things that aren't there. Are you maybe afraid someone will call you a schizophrenic? Afraid someone might tell you you're just a plain old hysterical neurotic?
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If you were actually confident and happy with your life, why would you give a damn what anyone thinks of you? You'd just shut them out! 😁
Or maybe you can't?
Your defense mechanism is elevating yourself above regular mortals, acting like you're something special. You won't allow yourself to come back down to earth because you're terrified of getting hurt again. You've been hurt once, twice, or probably a thousand times, and you haven't fully processed it yet. So, you hide behind a thousand masks. You have to build up these defenses. I get it, it hurts. But you can't live like this forever. You can't spend your whole life bracing for the cold. Plenty of people have been hurt by others in different ways. Some build fortresses out of black marble and barbed wire, looking down and laughing at ordinary people from their towers. But they aren't free. In the end, it doesn't matter what happened, how much we were hurt, or how we defend ourselves, the point is to deal with it.

Don't bother replying; you don't need to defend yourself. Good luck. 😉

Okay, so what on earth is this now???

flying Unicorn said:Don't bother replying; there’s really no need to defend yourself. Good luck. 😉

That wasn't actually an answer, because you can't really provide a response without having some substantial material to react to in the first place.
It was just a tangent.
But hey, go into farming. It's noble work and actually productive.
The spirit and the psyche demand a lot more than what your average wannabe psychiatrist can offer.

And seriously, don't feel like you have to defend yourself.

Best of luck.
🙂

Bradley Fisher20, I honestly have no clue why this schizophrenia manifested in me. It felt like my life was going fine, aside from the war, where I lived under constant, crushing stress. Back in '96, I started receiving psychiatric treatment, but it was for PTSD, and I ended up hospitalized for two months because of it. After a while, I stopped taking my meds and switched to Xanax. Everything seemed fine again, except for the fact that I was almost constantly dreaming about the war—flying through my dreams, scouting enemy positions, cursing at enemies on guard duty. I even felt their blood on me while walking down the street during the day, which would send me into a shivering fit of horror. During the daylight hours, I was relatively cheerful; I’d go fishing with my old buddies from the service, and we had a great time. My manic phase didn't actually kick in until I discovered Reddit for the first time. Writing on the forums made me feel like I was reliving the war and everything that went down back in '91. People posted all sorts of nonsense on there, and that guy Uzdanica was constantly uploading war photos. For instance, I’ll open a thread in the morning after turning on my computer, and there it is: a photo of twenty dead insurgents lying in the snow next to some house. That's when I completely lost it. By the way, back then, the forums had no moderators, and the administrators treated the site like an afterthought. That’s how it all started for me.

I can agree with almost everything you wrote regarding schizophrenia, except for your point about medications not being necessary. Maybe they aren't once things settle down—maybe then you could manage with group therapy or something similar—but in the acute phase? There isn't a soul alive who could handle that mental pressure without pills; I know from firsthand experience. I haven't exactly studied the disease, other than reading this, so all I really know is what happened to me and how I reacted. When I asked my psychiatrist if I’d have to be on medication for the rest of my life, he said maybe not, but he added: "Be glad that good medications exist."

And you're absolutely right about the sleep deprivation and hallucinations. Once during the war, we were deployed in the field, and I hadn't slept for two days straight. I was driving the last vehicle in a convoy pulling artillery. First, I saw non-existent people running across the road in front of me, and then I’d suddenly find myself waking up on the left side of the road—it happened several times. I tried taking some stimulant pill meant for combat drivers to stay awake, but even that didn't help. Then I lit a cigarette and rolled down the window for some fresh air, but nothing worked. Eventually, I just started talking to myself, barely making it until we reached our destination.

Aside from those magnetic blankets, I can't wrap my head around why anyone would buy those plastic plates with copper yin-yang symbols printed on them to prevent "harmful radiation," especially when they charge $115 for a single plate.
If someone actually tried to scam me with that, they'd have to be dead drunk, yet people still fall for it.

And sure, I'd participate in meetings where people interested in schizophrenia or those living with it could socialize, but where on earth are those meetings?

User123 said:And I’d actually participate in some meetings where people interested in health and schizophrenia—or those living with it—could get together. But does such a thing even exist?

I'm interested in that too.

The new social services legislation states that the Department of Social Services is responsible for organizing support groups for families of individuals dealing with health and schizophrenia.

Supposedly, they're also responsible for organizing 24/7 support for the foster families taking in people like that...

The people at the Downtown office don't know anything about this.

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User123 said:I'd pretty much agree with almost everything you said about health and schizophrenia, except for that part about meds not being necessary. Maybe they aren't needed once things finally settle down—maybe then you could try group therapy or something similar to stay on track—but during the acute phase? There isn't a single soul out there who could handle that kind of mental pressure without pills. I know, because I've lived it...

I'm with you on that. When things are hitting the fan and you're in an acute state, meds are absolute lifesavers for keeping everything stabilized...
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I haven't really gone deep into studying this disease or anything... except for what I've read... This...Look, all I know is what I’ve been through personally and how I've actually acted... When I asked my psychiatrist if I'd be stuck on pills for the rest of my life, he just told me maybe not, and said: "Just be glad there are good medications out there."

Totally. It’s just that classic issue with medicating chronic disorders—you try to find some kind of new balance, but then all these new problems just start popping up again because nobody is actually dealing with the root cause or fixing it...

On the other hand, if those meds are basically nuking your ability to think, then they're just killing your soul... and that's nowhere near fixing the actual problem.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I swear doctors are way too quick to just throw prescriptions at you... honestly, it seems like the easiest way for them to deal with a patient who isn't cooperating. They completely ignore the side effects and the actual root of the whole damn problem...

Look, I'm not saying anyone should just ditch therapy that actually works. I'm really not. What I'm saying is we need to take a massive step forward in how we look at this whole mess... and honestly? I expect to see some actual results from it...

Aside from those magnetic blankets, I honestly don't get what kind of people are buying those plastic plates with some yin-yang symbol printed on them in copper just to "block radiation"... and then dropping like $15 bucks on a single plate? Seriously...

Crazy people... 🙂.
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And I’d actually show up to some meetings where people interested in health and schizophrenia or folks living with it hang out... but where even do you find that kind of stuff around here?...

There are definitely people on this forum who would be interested. People who actually know people... I really believe that a forum like this is just a great way to communicate, or at least a way to get everyone on the same page...

That could actually be a solid start. But since my buddy at Anderlon isn't exactly thrilled about starting forums that deal with this kind of stuff, maybe we should just gather everyone somewhere else. Like... on Reddit or something... 🙂.

Off course, if anyone actually wants to get in on this attempt...