MLS 2022/23 Season: Part 2

Carl Hernandez3 said:The real issue here is everyone trying to rewrite history regarding who was actually sitting in whose section during some tournament back in '87.
Who was actually tearing up the stadium in Miami back in 1980?
Who really played dirty against the big cities in '60 or '79?
Which teams were getting crushed by the guys from Chicago or Philly—who basically kept the smaller clubs from ever becoming stable major league staples?

Truth be told, everyone was playing nice with them until about '89—that’s just how the game worked. Everyone has their skeletons in the closet, and let's face it, that's just the way it is.

Now, those first two points? Those are straight facts. It's true that the fans from the coast were standing shoulder-to-shoulder with those Mexico City hooligans, cheering against us—all while our own guys were getting into scraps with those same Mexico City crews for years, mostly because those guys rarely showed up to our city, especially for street fights. And yeah, it's also a fact that a good chunk of the stadium crowd back in 1980 was basically just there for the beer. Look, you can point fingers however you want, but that's the reality.

Terry Howard7 said:Now, those first two points? Those are straight facts. It's true that the fans from the coast were standing shoulder-to-shoulder with those Mexico City hooligans, cheering against us—all while our own guys were getting into scraps with those same Mexico City crews for years, mostly because those guys rarely showed up to our city, especially for street fights. And yeah, it's also a fact that a good chunk of the stadium crowd back in 1980 was basically just there for the beer. Look, you can point fingers however you want, but that's the reality.

I mean, seriously, what kind of nonsense are you guys still spewing? Is it actually possible that you still buy into that ridiculous fairy tale about some organized group teaming up against you? Even you guys were cheering for the underdog at the stadium back in '99, so why should we in the coastal cities give a single damn? What does that have to do with us?

For crying out loud, 1987... does that even register in your brain? The big team played, and everyone else just messed with your heads because they were your rivals, and that was literally it! Do you see a single banner from the hardcore supporters in the stands, or is it all just casual fans? It’s nothing but casuals! What kind of fantasy have you cooked up where something massive was supposed to happen? Like, who was going to go out and clean up after the New York crowd? Are you kidding me? Are the people seeing them for the first time just gonna rush the stands to start policing things? Are grandmas and kids gonna start throwing punches yelling "Hey, New Yorkers, let's go!"? Yeah, right! Nothing like that would happen today unless you find some die-hard ultra groups, and back then? Forget about it.

The hardcore supporters didn't even make it into the stadium because there was a huge clash happening in the city, so what kind of delusion are you living in regarding that whole situation? 🤣

Do you even realize that the local supporters were totally hanging out with the other crew after the championship game? Do you get that they were heading to matches together after that? You guys are still trying to mythologize this like it was some earth-shattering event, even though you were perfectly fine being buddies with them! So, who's actually fraternizing with whom?

And the absolute craziest part of all this... is how the entire city was mourning the old leader. I mean, the whole stadium! That means the whole era when those New York guys were running the show. But I guess that doesn't fit your narrative because they aren't "ultras," right? Where do you even see the hardcore crews in all this? You think they were rolling with the New York crowd? What kind of sickness is that? 😲

You know what the worst part is? Nobody gives a damn about you guys! You were literally bringing those outsiders onto your own side of the stands, you were hanging out with them, you were basically doing business with them... and this was all happening *after* the war, which is hands down the biggest disgrace ever in our local scene regarding relations with those types. And yet, you're sitting here having a meltdown over some thousands of people who showed up to a championship final in the city forty years ago. Seriously, I can't believe how much you guys love your own myths. It's unbelievable.

goldentinker8 said:I mean, seriously, what kind of nonsense are you guys still spewing? Is it actually possible that you still buy into that ridiculous fairy tale about some organized group teaming up against you? Even you guys were cheering for the underdog at the stadium back in '99, so why should we in the coastal cities give a single damn? What does that have to do with us?

For crying out loud, 1987... does that even register in your brain? The big team played, and everyone else just messed with your heads because they were your rivals, and that was literally it! Do you see a single banner from the hardcore supporters in the stands, or is it all just casual fans? It’s nothing but casuals! What kind of fantasy have you cooked up where something massive was supposed to happen? Like, who was going to go out and clean up after the New York crowd? Are you kidding me? Are the people seeing them for the first time just gonna rush the stands to start policing things? Are grandmas and kids gonna start throwing punches yelling "Hey, New Yorkers, let's go!"? Yeah, right! Nothing like that would happen today unless you find some die-hard ultra groups, and back then? Forget about it.

The hardcore supporters didn't even make it into the stadium because there was a huge clash happening in the city, so what kind of delusion are you living in regarding that whole situation? 🤣

Do you even realize that the local supporters were totally hanging out with the other crew after the championship game? Do you get that they were heading to matches together after that? You guys are still trying to mythologize this like it was some earth-shattering event, even though you were perfectly fine being buddies with them! So, who's actually fraternizing with whom?

And the absolute craziest part of all this... is how the entire city was mourning the old leader. I mean, the whole stadium! That means the whole era when those New York guys were running the show. But I guess that doesn't fit your narrative because they aren't "ultras," right? Where do you even see the hardcore crews in all this? You think they were rolling with the New York crowd? What kind of sickness is that? 😲

You know what the worst part is? Nobody gives a damn about you guys! You were literally bringing those outsiders onto your own side of the stands, you were hanging out with them, you were basically doing business with them... and this was all happening *after* the war, which is hands down the biggest disgrace ever in our local scene regarding relations with those types. And yet, you're sitting here having a meltdown over some thousands of people who showed up to a championship final in the city forty years ago. Seriously, I can't believe how much you guys love your own myths. It's unbelievable.

Where did I ever say that Armada was specifically cheering? Besides, Armada was just starting out back then; they weren't even a big group, and the individuals who eventually founded the group and moved into the ultra scene were also part of Torcida and acting like Hajduk fans—which is pretty ironic, I guess.

They were just regular fans of the local team, not just at the stadium but all over town. And no, it wasn't just "grandmas and kids"—it was the core group that would eventually grow into what became the Armada. Back then, Armada was just a small circle of people.

I honestly don't get why people are getting so worked up over "fan folklore." There’s a massive difference between insulting someone in the stands and doing it specifically online. I am positive that those guys from the coast aren't out there throwing insults at folks from the Midwest in their actual lives or private dealings, and it goes both ways. In fact, anyone who spends any time navigating the coast knows that most of us get along just fine; I’ve had plenty of people from the northern regions become close family friends. Those folks are top-tier people, even if we on the coast have our own way of doing things. Anyone who actually travels or works the waters knows that's the reality.

So, why does someone feel this pathological need to act out on a forum? Regardless of which side they're on, it's probably because they know there are zero consequences here.

Carry on, gentlemen.

Terry Howard7 said:Where did I ever say that Armada was specifically cheering? Besides, Armada was just starting out back then; they weren't even a big group, and the individuals who eventually founded the group and moved into the ultra scene were also part of Torcida and acting like Hajduk fans—which is pretty ironic, I guess.

They were just regular fans of the local team, not just at the stadium but all over town. And no, it wasn't just "grandmas and kids"—it was the core group that would eventually grow into what became the Armada. Back then, Armada was just a small circle of people.

Look, let me wrap this up once and for all... There isn't a single fan group, supporter, or individual out there who hasn't dealt with some kind of intense situation involving Mexicans over the last 50 or 60 years where things "happened," you know? It’s impossible not to have a story to tell about it.

The straight truth is that the supporter scene on the coast wasn't at the level we see today, whereas your scene always was. We respect that, it’s legitimate, and honestly, it’s worth a congrats.

You guys actually built up that specific energy, that heavy rivalry with the Mexicans way back when. We didn't. People weren't getting kicked out during away games, nobody was pushing those aggressive agendas, and frankly, nobody gave a damn about those schemes. You guys had that whole dynamic going with the Mexico City teams, but we didn't. I'm telling you this so you finally get why the average fans here couldn't care less about any of that drama.

We couldn't have pulled that off with you guys either... You could have been right there in those stands, and nothing bad would have happened; it would have been a total blast! Especially since a dozen of those Armada guys had been through the ringer before, and especially because there were Torcida fans mixed right in with them.
Expecting supporters to feel the exact same way in a "unified" country without that pre-existing rivalry is just pure comedy.

Plus, after all that, the Armada and Torcida actually had pretty close ties; there were even times they swapped members! Nobody complained because, let's be real, nothing crazy happened during that era. It was only in this new era of our country that this whole narrative about the hooligans started brewing. And if you ever find yourself wondering why the folks from the coast are so incredibly fired up, why they’re constantly shouting "what the hell is this?" or "what's the deal with that?"... just know that you guys played a huge part in that. You created a myth that raised entire generations on both sides of the fence. But hey, maybe that’s actually better for the rivalry in the long run, so don't overthink it too much—though I notice you ask about why we're so hyped up quite often! So, there you go. Enjoy! 👍

Back on this thread after ages...

Just watching those Southern fanatics spin their usual tales.

Same old story, really...

SC

Just a year later, both the Armada and the Torcida crew were out at Trsat cheering for Jugoplastika—they were all united against Cibona during that Cup final—and there’s actually video footage of them holding up joint banners together.
If the old-school Hajduk supporters—including those locals from the Rijeka area—could set aside their differences back then to rally against Cibona during that Mexico City final,
I really don't understand why this is bothering anyone now.

Carl Hernandez3 said:Just a year later, both the Armada and the Torcida crew were out at Trsat cheering for Jugoplastika—they were all united against Cibona during that Cup final—and there’s actually video footage of them holding up joint banners together.
If the old-school Hajduk supporters—including those locals from the Rijeka area—could set aside their differences back then to rally against Cibona during that Mexico City final,
I really don't understand why this is bothering anyone now.

Things were honestly pretty ideal after that period.👍

Jason Kern49 said:Things were honestly pretty ideal after that period.👍

🤣

Jason Kern49 said:I honestly don't get why people are getting so worked up over "fan folklore." There’s a massive difference between insulting someone in the stands and doing it specifically online. I am positive that those guys from the coast aren't out there throwing insults at folks from the Midwest in their actual lives or private dealings, and it goes both ways. In fact, anyone who spends any time navigating the coast knows that most of us get along just fine; I’ve had plenty of people from the northern regions become close family friends. Those folks are top-tier people, even if we on the coast have our own way of doing things. Anyone who actually travels or works the waters knows that's the reality.

So, why does someone feel this pathological need to act out on a forum? Regardless of which side they're on, it's probably because they know there are zero consequences here.

Carry on, gentlemen.

It’s actually a pretty sane way to look at it. I remember a few years back, there was this opportunity for a guy from my neighborhood to go work maintaining cruise ships while they were docked in places like the Bahamas or Canada. It was a sweet deal—two days of work for a massive paycheck. Most of the guys from my block went; most were huge sports fans, and one guy from the rival city—total hardcore supporter, covered in tattoos and everything—joined them. He was a bit skeptical at first about working with "the opposition," but it turned out great. He did it a few more times before the gig dried up, and honestly, some of those guys still stay in touch today.

Or take that big rivalry game back in 2006 or 2007. Some of the local supporters were grilling meat in the neighborhood, while the rest of us were already downtown. My two buddies popped into the corner store and ran into these two teenagers, maybe 16 or 17, who were clearly fans from out of town. My guys cornered them, and the kids immediately admitted they were from the rival city—first time ever visiting our part of the country, totally lost, didn't even know where the stadium was located.🤣

Instead of causing trouble, the locals just rounded them up, took them to grab a bite to eat, threw them in the car, and dropped them off right by the stadium just before kickoff.

So yeah, there’s a difference between mindless trolling and reality. Most people are actually decent, reasonable humans—thank God for that. And I mean that for everyone, regardless of which side they support, just so we're clear.

Carol Harris6 said:It really does exist, and honestly, the atmosphere is just as intense whether you're watching Hajduk or Dinamo play.

https://adriaticket.com/event/8324-h...nik-gnk-dinamo

When you eventually find yourselves traveling to play matches in places like Italy or Austria, you'll realize that things aren't any different, even in those kinds of stadiums.

Give me an example for a town like Springfield, too.

And please, give me a specific match where another group of fans completely sold out the supporter section, effectively driving down the overall attendance numbers!

goldentinker8 said:Look, let me wrap this up once and for all... There isn't a single fan group, supporter, or individual out there who hasn't dealt with some kind of intense situation involving Mexicans over the last 50 or 60 years where things "happened," you know? It’s impossible not to have a story to tell about it.

The straight truth is that the supporter scene on the coast wasn't at the level we see today, whereas your scene always was. We respect that, it’s legitimate, and honestly, it’s worth a congrats.

You guys actually built up that specific energy, that heavy rivalry with the Mexicans way back when. We didn't. People weren't getting kicked out during away games, nobody was pushing those aggressive agendas, and frankly, nobody gave a damn about those schemes. You guys had that whole dynamic going with the Mexico City teams, but we didn't. I'm telling you this so you finally get why the average fans here couldn't care less about any of that drama.

We couldn't have pulled that off with you guys either... You could have been right there in those stands, and nothing bad would have happened; it would have been a total blast! Especially since a dozen of those Armada guys had been through the ringer before, and especially because there were Torcida fans mixed right in with them.
Expecting supporters to feel the exact same way in a "unified" country without that pre-existing rivalry is just pure comedy.

Plus, after all that, the Armada and Torcida actually had pretty close ties; there were even times they swapped members! Nobody complained because, let's be real, nothing crazy happened during that era. It was only in this new era of our country that this whole narrative about the hooligans started brewing. And if you ever find yourself wondering why the folks from the coast are so incredibly fired up, why they’re constantly shouting "what the hell is this?" or "what's the deal with that?"... just know that you guys played a huge part in that. You created a myth that raised entire generations on both sides of the fence. But hey, maybe that’s actually better for the rivalry in the long run, so don't overthink it too much—though I notice you ask about why we're so hyped up quite often! So, there you go. Enjoy! 👍

Look, I was actually at that Cup final at the old stadium, so I know exactly what I'm talking about, but I won't dwell on it; however, I definitely made the trip to see games down at the seaside stadium back in '89 and '90, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that what you're claiming doesn't hold any water... you're just talking nonsense.

Carl Hernandez3 said:May 29, 1960.

Two of Dinamo’s key players suffered serious injuries from the opponent's brutal tackles—which sparked a massive protest from the club's board—and the atmosphere in the stands was absolutely electric, bordering on dangerous, during the big derby between Hajduk and Dinamo. At the time, the Blue squad was locked in a "photo finish" with Red Star in the race for the championship title, but they hit a major roadblock right in Split against the home side. Hajduk walked away with a 3-2 victory, leaving the second-place Dinamo trailing Red Star by a point with only three games left. A draw would have been enough for the Blues to stay in contention for first place; they went on to win all their remaining matches, but Red Star managed to pull through as well, ultimately clinching the title. After the whistle, Dinamo's chief secretary, Otto Hofmann, released an official statement expressing pure outrage over the reception in Split, stating: “The match was played under impossible conditions; several of our players were seriously injured due to malicious fouls—specifically Jerković and Matuš. Throughout the game, our players were surrounded by intense tension and stones being thrown from the stands onto the pitch.” Later on, some individuals even threw stones at the Dinamo team bus, while the Hajduk management actually confiscated negatives from the visiting photographers, destroying their work. The drama didn't end there either—the local club officials publicly called out their own player, Ante Zanetić, for not playing hard enough, and he was later physically assaulted in town... The home defender, Stipe Ilić, essentially neutralized Dinamo’s most dangerous striker, Dražan Jerković, within the first ten minutes with a brutal blow to the shin, forcing him off on a stretcher. He was replaced by then-junior Ivica Cvitković. In the second half, Pavle Garov leveled the playing field with a similar move on Željko Matuš, who also had to leave the field. Under the rules back then, you couldn't make tactical substitutions once players were gone, so Dinamo had to fight through the last thirty minutes with only ten men. Despite the chaos, Luka Liposinović gave the Blues the lead with a volley in the 12th minute, and Zlatko Papec equalized in the 31st following an assist from Garov. Two minutes after that, Liposinović nearly shattered the woodwork. However, the Blues reclaimed the lead when Nedeljko Dugandžija took a pass from Vladimir Čonča, beat the keeper, Ante Vulić, and shook the net. Just before halftime, Garov leveled things again with a strike from 20 yards out. Finally, in the 50th minute, Papec capitalized on a pass from Zvonko Bege to make it 3-2.

I mean, seriously, is this even real life?
People were so obsessed with Red Star that they actually turned on their own player for not being aggressive enough—it's just wild.

What total myth-making🙏 ,and frankly, you’re such a slippery little forum dweller🍿

Oh, let's just completely ignore the fact that we beat the Yankees 4-1 in their territory just a few weeks prior... let's just pretend the other team didn't knock us out of the semifinals recently...

How are you looking at the 1953 season? We crushed the Yankees 4-1 in New York, but then, with only three games left, the Yankees beat us 5-1 in Los Angeles, and those guys ended up finishing first by two points.

Adam Myers4 said:Give me an example for a town like Springfield, too.

And please, give me a specific match where another group of fans completely sold out the supporter section, effectively driving down the overall attendance numbers!

Take that game between Šibenik and Dinamo back in May of last year, for instance. There were actually more Dinamo fans sitting in the West stands than there were in the designated away section, despite the official "ban" or whatever they call it. It makes you wonder what the point of these restrictions is when ticket sales decisions are made before the tickets are even released to the public. How are clubs supposed to know ahead of time if the visiting sector will be sold out or not? For Šibenik, there’s this lingering reputation that the West stand is basically reserved for the local supporters whenever Hajduk or Dinamo comes to town. From my perspective, it feels a bit ridiculous how people play on those raw emotions and manipulate situations like this, but I suppose some people genuinely care about it. Fan groups can reach an agreement in five minutes to help each other out with tickets, yet we still hear all this myth-making about suppressed Hajduk fans, which is a whole different conversation entirely.

As for the Kansas City situation, I don't feel like digging through Belupa's archives right now, but if my memory serves me, things were similar there—though in practice, it just doesn't work the way people claim, much like what happened in Šibenik. That's why these arguments usually only seem to gain traction with the people who don't actually show up to the games.

Carl Hernandez3 said:The real issue here is everyone trying to rewrite history regarding who was actually sitting in whose section during some tournament back in '87.
Who was actually tearing up the stadium in Miami back in 1980?
Who really played dirty against the big cities in '60 or '79?
Which teams were getting crushed by the guys from Chicago or Philly—who basically kept the smaller clubs from ever becoming stable major league staples?

Truth be told, everyone was playing nice with them until about '89—that’s just how the game worked. Everyone has their skeletons in the closet, and let's face it, that's just the way it is.

All this talk about playing nice with the old rivals while simultaneously claiming we laid out their star players on the field...🙏 🙏.
It’s all ancient history at this point.🙏 🙏

Jonathan Smith12 said:Look, I was actually at that Cup final at the old stadium, so I know exactly what I'm talking about, but I won't dwell on it; however, I definitely made the trip to see games down at the seaside stadium back in '89 and '90, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that what you're claiming doesn't hold any water... you're just talking nonsense.

Oh, come on, quit the nonsense, who even brought up the stadium? I'm talking about the whole saga and the clashes with the hardcore ultras, which really kicked off in this new country! Everything truly boiled over back on December 4th, 1988... and it wasn't even that video Jason Kern49 posted; those were later riots, the year on that video is totally wrong!

goldentinker8 said:Oh, come on, quit the nonsense, who even brought up the stadium? I'm talking about the whole saga and the clashes with the hardcore ultras, which really kicked off in this new country! Everything truly boiled over back on December 4th, 1988... and it wasn't even that video Jason Kern49 posted; those were later riots, the year on that video is totally wrong!

The whole thing started right after that '87 championship game... there were 6,000 people at that final, all watching, and they saw exactly what was coming...

Look, I never once said nobody saw what went down back then... What I’m saying is, why did it actually happen the way it did? I pointed out how the Torcida guys were basically playing nice with the Armada crew, and then everything shifted. I also mentioned how that whole narrative—trying to paint the Armada as the ultimate villains—started getting pushed hard once we moved to this new state. For heaven's sake, I never claimed people didn't see what was happening at the time, seriously! Come on now, give me a break! 👍

goldentinker8 said:Look, I never once said nobody saw what went down back then... What I’m saying is, why did it actually happen the way it did? I pointed out how the Torcida guys were basically playing nice with the Armada crew, and then everything shifted. I also mentioned how that whole narrative—trying to paint the Armada as the ultimate villains—started getting pushed hard once we moved to this new state. For heaven's sake, I never claimed people didn't see what was happening at the time, seriously! Come on now, give me a break! 👍

Who exactly was being friendly? You're trying to explain the very events I was actually present for...

Back during that era, the Rijeka Torcida was probably one of the strongest chapters supporting the Chicago side, so naturally, people knew each other; they weren't exactly looking for a fight at each other's front doors like they might have been years later, and I'm certain there was mutual friendliness among them at times...

I mean, with what kind of force could you even hope to attack a thousand or two people if they had actually shown up at Kantrid?
There wasn't any attack, and suddenly everyone is best friends? If that’s the case, does everything we smashed—from the stadium all the way down to the train station after the tear gas incident—also count as "being friendly"?...

Sure, you could have cleared the Gypsies off the stands back then, but you didn't, so everything you wrote stands; the whole story about "cheering together" just spread like wildfire because, frankly, it suited our interests to let that narrative take hold...

Everyone was on the same page back then, you know? They actually knew each other! There wasn't any of that fighting; they’d just hang out together and head over to the games to cheer against the Lakers side of things...



February 7, 1988. The Madison Square Garden arena.

Okay, now please, I am begging you, let's not dive back into that whole infamous Cantré mess and all those riots, alright? Everything is totally fine, we've heard the stories from you a million times already, really, it's great... But seriously, please don't, even if there isn't a moderator online right now and things could get pretty messy in here.🤣

What is wrong with you people? You're all sick.

Goodbye America, hello America.☕