Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Larry Fox5 said:There’s another way out—just don't show up to vote. By signing that ballot, you’re basically handing over your blessing to the lesser of two evils, even if you know damn well it's a trap.

That way, you can at least walk around with a clear conscience... tell yourself this isn't your government or your leadership, just whatever the majority in this country decided to pull. At least then you can look yourself in the mirror in the morning.

Jeffrey Edwards76 actually nailed it in a thread a few pages back—about a quarter of the people in this country benefit directly or indirectly from this whole rigged setup, living off someone else's sweat or credit. You can't expect anything to change when the system is built to keep them winning.

To grab the majority needed to run the show, they have to resort to lies and dirty manipulation. Just facts...

That’s a massive mistake right there. The Republicans are basically winning elections by arguing that everyone is the same and nothing ever changes... Instead of actual voters showing up, it’s just party loyalists hitting the polls, and the GOP has the biggest advantage there because they've held power for so long and used it to their benefit. It's the perfect setup for them...

There really is a massive difference between someone like a Biden and a Trump... one's a disappointment, but the other is an absolute force of nature...

Keith Miller30 said:I’m not trying to argue with you; I’m simply offering some perspective on how the Democratic Party is perceived from the other side. 🤷

We all tend to gravitate toward our own version of the truth, don't we? It really just comes down to who we choose to root for and which figures we simply cannot stand.

Look, you already know I'm crazy about you, babe.

Hold on a second, how exactly do you think you know how the other side views the Democrats when you’re clearly just playing the part of a devoted little supporter?

mellowscout24 said:Look, you already know I'm crazy about you, babe.

Hold on a second, how exactly do you think you know how the other side views the Democrats when you’re clearly just playing the part of a devoted little supporter?

Like a dog chasing a cat, right? ☕

mellowscout24 said:Look, you already know I'm crazy about you, babe.

Hold on a second, how exactly do you think you know how the other side views the Democrats when you’re clearly just playing the part of a devoted little supporter?

Well, isn't the little guy's crowd just another side of the opposition too? ☕

I have never once cast a vote for the Republicans. It was just me and the professor back in the day, the only ones who actually cared about football 😍... 🤣

Robin Fox2 said:I have never once cast a vote for the Republicans. It was just me and the professor back in the day, the only ones who actually cared about football 😍... 🤣

You guys definitely weren't the only ones ☕

I would love for one of those folks constantly chanting the Republican mantra about how this current administration is the most incompetent group to ever hold office—looking at you, Robin Fox2 and Keith Miller30—to actually explain what makes the previous administration so much more "capable" than the present one. If there are any actual facts to support that claim, I'd be interested to hear them. Beyond that, is this mythical gap in competence truly wide enough to justify handing the keys back to an entire criminal enterprise, especially when led by a far more dangerous mastermind?

If they actually understood that they were riding on nothing more than a hollow sense of optimism—a delusion fueled by billions in cheap credit, fairy-tale IPOs, and a housing bubble as fragile as soap suds—would they ever have fallen for it? Could anyone truly believe that simply joining the global stage would magically dissolve every systemic issue we face, as if entering a major trade bloc acts as some kind of universal solvent for our problems? Perhaps not.

Where exactly are those decisive strokes of statecraft we were promised—those moves that might actually matter, even if we set aside the organized looting and the deliberate cultivation of chaos required to keep this whole system running? Where are the bold, capable economic maneuvers that could actually steer this country toward something resembling prosperity?

Who, in the final analysis, is actually cleaning up the mess that the President leaves behind—even if he’s being a bit slow about it?

And let’s be honest, there are varying degrees of evil in this world. To think otherwise is simply a profound mistake.

Let’s be clear here: there have been some absolutely epic fails from certain Cabinet members in this administration. Nobody is disputing that. But really, is it any more egregious than what we’ve seen from previous administrations?

brightpilot6 said:I would love for one of those folks constantly chanting the Republican mantra about how this current administration is the most incompetent group to ever hold office—looking at you, Robin Fox2 and Keith Miller30—to actually explain what makes the previous administration so much more "capable" than the present one. If there are any actual facts to support that claim, I'd be interested to hear them. Beyond that, is this mythical gap in competence truly wide enough to justify handing the keys back to an entire criminal enterprise, especially when led by a far more dangerous mastermind?

If they actually understood that they were riding on nothing more than a hollow sense of optimism—a delusion fueled by billions in cheap credit, fairy-tale IPOs, and a housing bubble as fragile as soap suds—would they ever have fallen for it? Could anyone truly believe that simply joining the global stage would magically dissolve every systemic issue we face, as if entering a major trade bloc acts as some kind of universal solvent for our problems? Perhaps not.

Where exactly are those decisive strokes of statecraft we were promised—those moves that might actually matter, even if we set aside the organized looting and the deliberate cultivation of chaos required to keep this whole system running? Where are the bold, capable economic maneuvers that could actually steer this country toward something resembling prosperity?

Who, in the final analysis, is actually cleaning up the mess that the President leaves behind—even if he’s being a bit slow about it?

And let’s be honest, there are varying degrees of evil in this world. To think otherwise is simply a profound mistake.

You’re probably right—but if you vote for the lesser evil, that’s just straight-up pragmatism. Morally speaking, you'd be better off not voting at all since you're basically giving your own legitimacy to this administration even if you see them as just the lesser of two evils.

Let's not be naive here—you're never going to find a perfect option in politics, so the real question is how many of these choices are even remotely tolerable.

Since I live in Germany, if I actually had the right to vote, I’d go with the CDU—fully aware it isn't perfect, but it's far from it... calling it the lesser evil.

Keith Miller30 said:I don't think this is really about party membership—though I suspect only one person here actually holds a card ☕. It seems more like a simple case of intense dislike for the opposition, or perhaps I would even go so far as to call it pure hatred. Is it possible to dislike the Democrats or Republicans so much that you'd vote for any opponent just to see them lose? I truly believe it isn't just about rehashing old grievances, because you can always point to corruption within the GOP or claim the Democrats have abandoned the country's core values. Much of this stems from deep-seated ideology, whether people care to admit it or not, and invoking the past serves as a convenient excuse since neither party remains exactly what they once were.

If you ask me, it's all just an illusion, whether folks admit it or not.

Around here, "ideology" is just another word for a fantasy. It honestly makes my blood boil when people start whining about these imaginary divides.

And check out this logic of yours: 🤦

Keith Miller30 said:I don't think this is really about party membership—though I suspect only one person here actually holds a card ☕. It seems more like a simple case of intense dislike for the opposition, or perhaps I would even go so far as to call it pure hatred. Is it possible to dislike the Democrats or Republicans so much that you'd vote for any opponent just to see them lose? I truly believe it isn't just about rehashing old grievances, because you can always point to corruption within the GOP or claim the Democrats have abandoned the country's core values. Much of this stems from deep-seated ideology, whether people care to admit it or not, and invoking the past serves as a convenient excuse since neither party remains exactly what they once were.

Buddy, no average, sane American actually wanted this country...

Don't try to twist my words or change the context now. They didn't want her back when America was already a powerhouse.

Larry Fox5 said:If you ask me, it's all just an illusion, whether folks admit it or not.

Around here, "ideology" is just another word for a fantasy. It honestly makes my blood boil when people start whining about these imaginary divides.

And check out this logic of yours: 🤦

Buddy, no average, sane American actually wanted this country...

Of course ideology isn't an illusion; I'm not quite sure where you're getting that idea from. You cannot simply dictate to another person what should matter to them and what shouldn't, can you? Everyone in this forum is championing some form of ideology, including yourself, if we are being honest.

As for the second point you made, I won't even bother quoting it, as I don't believe it even deserves a response.

Let’s be clear: I wouldn't have any issue setting aside my ideological leanings and casting a vote for the Democrats if I didn't feel they were undermining the country. Or perhaps I'd find myself supporting a sensible leader like Cory Booker.

Patrick Martin said:Why do you guys even care? It’s not like the entire GOP is some massive criminal syndicate; sure, the top brass and their little inner circle absolutely gutted the country,
but the real headache is that the current leadership hasn't made a clear, transparent move to distance themselves from all that theft.
That’s what gets me worked up—this whole wider base of supporters who didn't push back harder or demand a total scorched-earth policy to fix things.

The Democrats are just as bad, they just play a much more sneaky game. They basically have zero respect for America or the American people. Honestly, if the GOP hadn't completely trashed the political landscape, those guys wouldn't even be in a position to hold power right now.

So, what we're looking at is basically an accidental government, just praying to God everything works out by sheer luck because a tiny, tight-knit group of insiders managed to line their pockets again.

Where on earth are you getting the idea that the Democrats despise Americans? What's your reasoning there? That sounds like typical GOP campaign rhetoric used when they don't actually have an economic plan, especially since they've lost even the most basic thinkers...

Plus, let's remember: during the last term, the GOP almost granted autonomy to minority groups, which was blocked in Congress. They also dealt with major legal scandals and sold off rights in our biggest national corporations through bribery. They’ve looted the country so thoroughly that they're practically the only party facing serious legal scrutiny for theft, despite having their people embedded everywhere in the judiciary, like the Supreme Court...

But somehow, you don't think *that* crowd hates America, yet you claim the Democrats do? Most of today's leadership is straight out of that old-school era of political corruption...

Keith Miller30 said:Of course ideology isn't an illusion; I'm not quite sure where you're getting that idea from. You cannot simply dictate to another person what should matter to them and what shouldn't, can you? Everyone in this forum is championing some form of ideology, including yourself, if we are being honest.

As for the second point you made, I won't even bother quoting it, as I don't believe it even deserves a response.

Let’s be clear: I wouldn't have any issue setting aside my ideological leanings and casting a vote for the Democrats if I didn't feel they were undermining the country. Or perhaps I'd find myself supporting a sensible leader like Cory Booker.

Are you seriously suggesting they can do more damage than a literal criminal organization—something the public has already seen confirmed?

ZZ made a great point asking what actually makes this administration so much more tragic than the last one. I've read that question a hundred times now, and frankly, there's zero substance behind the answers. The reality is people know this government is incompetent, so they don't even bother trying to prove otherwise, or they simply couldn't care less. But let's be honest: it isn't any worse than the previous one. Why on earth would we give an equally terrible former administration another shot? Not to mention, that prior group basically picked the country's pockets clean.

I promised myself I wouldn't go any further with this, but I find I simply can't let this one point slide. I wouldn't go so far as to say there is a genuine hatred for this country or its people, but I do believe that what Patrick Martin is suggesting isn't entirely off base.

Larry Fox5 said:You’re probably right—but if you vote for the lesser evil, that’s just straight-up pragmatism. Morally speaking, you'd be better off not voting at all since you're basically giving your own legitimacy to this administration even if you see them as just the lesser of two evils.

Let's not be naive here—you're never going to find a perfect option in politics, so the real question is how many of these choices are even remotely tolerable.

Since I live in Germany, if I actually had the right to vote, I’d go with the CDU—fully aware it isn't perfect, but it's far from it... calling it the lesser evil.

Things would be a whole lot smoother in this country if people viewed elections through a lens of cold, hard pragmatism rather than treating them like some high-stakes moral crusade or an emotional rollercoaster. Imagine if we actually picked the party that wouldn't sell out our veterans for pennies or dismantle Social Security, instead of just cheering for whichever side waves the loudest flag.

Honestly, I’d happily trade every ounce of my moral high ground to any slimy politician in Washington just for a solid guarantee that they won't privatize our public water supply. It’s really that simple.

Keith Miller30 said:I promised myself I wouldn't go any further with this, but I find I simply can't let this one point slide. I wouldn't go so far as to say there is a genuine hatred for this country or its people, but I do believe that what Patrick Martin is suggesting isn't entirely off base.

Honestly, that’s pretty much why the Republicans keep winning elections. People just say, "Sure, they're corrupt, but at least they're on our side and love America." It doesn't matter if they have zero economic plan, or if they're just sharpening their knives to carve up the budget for themselves, or even that their leader has ties to old-school intelligence agencies. All that matters is making sure the Democrats don't take over. And let's be real, most of the former communists ended up right inside the Republican party anyway...🤔

Most of this sentiment comes from those immigrants who moved here from abroad and would vote Republican even if someone broke into their house to steal their TV and rip up the floorboards. Then you've got the cronies at government agencies—people who landed cushy jobs, pensions, and all sorts of perks thanks to the GOP. It's all a total fabrication...

It's the exact same logic with local politicians like mayors who act like big-time patriots and devout believers just to win votes. If people actually bothered to Google what their college thesis was really about, they'd know better. Americans can be so easily misled...

Noah Roberts46 said:Are you seriously suggesting they can do more damage than a literal criminal organization—something the public has already seen confirmed?

ZZ made a great point asking what actually makes this administration so much more tragic than the last one. I've read that question a hundred times now, and frankly, there's zero substance behind the answers. The reality is people know this government is incompetent, so they don't even bother trying to prove otherwise, or they simply couldn't care less. But let's be honest: it isn't any worse than the previous one. Why on earth would we give an equally terrible former administration another shot? Not to mention, that prior group basically picked the country's pockets clean.

It’s just a tired mantra people lean on when they run out of actual arguments. Same deal with the claim that this government hates the country. Of course, the old Republican establishment—the ones who handed over the keys to ExxonMobil and basically buried the economy—didn't hate the country, and they certainly weren't incompetent. Right. Now we have a new party leader and suddenly there's zero connection to the old guard, even though 98% of the players are the same. A couple of guys changed because they ended up in federal prison—well, except for the few who bailed early just to distance themselves from an idiot like Karamarck.

The GOP just sells people whatever they want to hear—usually some flavor of "patriotism." Doesn't matter if you put that word in quotes or not; it's the same hollow rhetoric. Honestly, it might be better if they just dismantled the country—at least they don't hate it, they built it. Or tried to. They've done as much damage as any insurgent group during a civil war. At least they aren't Communists. Though their president has ties to the old intelligence services. But hey, he's just a victim of the system—even if he did crawl his way into power himself.

mellowotter36 said:Don't try to twist my words or change the context now. They didn't want her back when America was already a powerhouse.

Fine then, let's play by his rules. Or yours. Whatever.

Go ahead—teach me something. Explain these massive gaps in history that somehow "prove" your point. I'm just dying to sacrifice my precious time if it means getting some groundbreaking epiphany I've somehow missed until now...

Since a few of you have been pushing this exact same theory on this forum, I highly doubt you all reached this "verdict" just by flipping coins.

James Anderson5, Anthony Jackson2, and brightpilot6 hit the nail on the head here.

@Larry Fox5, I don't buy it. Not even close. Let's look at the facts: we have this administration that inherited a total wreck (and guess who's thanks to them; hint: starts with "D" and ends with "P"; the President has been pushing this narrative lately, and he isn't lying). As much as people want to nitpick their mistakes, the country is actually starting to move again. A solid third option would be great, sure, but right now it’s a choice between two sides: the thieves—a convicted criminal organization where most of the old guard still hangs around—versus the crew that bankrupted us and triggered a recession while juggling endless scandals, vs. realistically speaking, a group of lesser crooks who finally—after three years of absolute nothingness—actually got things moving. In six months, we'll know if this growth is just a fluke or not, but it's hard to claim this many indicators improved by pure luck. Honestly, the fact that the opposition's main platform is just fighting windmills tells you everything you need to know.

It's far from a perfect administration, but compared to the main opposition party...

Here is our potential future President:

James Anderson5 said:Honestly, that’s pretty much why the Republicans keep winning elections. People just say, "Sure, they're corrupt, but at least they're on our side and love America." It doesn't matter if they have zero economic plan, or if they're just sharpening their knives to carve up the budget for themselves, or even that their leader has ties to old-school intelligence agencies. All that matters is making sure the Democrats don't take over. And let's be real, most of the former communists ended up right inside the Republican party anyway...🤔

Most of this sentiment comes from those immigrants who moved here from abroad and would vote Republican even if someone broke into their house to steal their TV and rip up the floorboards. Then you've got the cronies at government agencies—people who landed cushy jobs, pensions, and all sorts of perks thanks to the GOP. It's all a total fabrication...

It's the exact same logic with local politicians like mayors who act like big-time patriots and devout believers just to win votes. If people actually bothered to Google what their college thesis was really about, they'd know better. Americans can be so easily misled...

You are truly the last person I care to debate politics with. No, that isn't why the Republicans win; the real reason is the Democrats, specifically the current leadership. Everyone else is secondary; the main "culprit" behind the GOP's success is the Democratic frontrunner. It’s just like how the Democrats didn't win because of some grand vision, but rather because of the massive corruption scandals of the previous administration. You see, is it really a problem to claim a leader has ties to subversive agents without hard proof—assuming we accept every rumor about a conservative politician as gospel—if I were to claim the Democratic leader is a thief without any evidence at all?

And no, they aren't great patriots, nor was that mayor you brought up, but I find myself much closer to Patrick Martin's theory than yours. If we judge solely by the Republican Party's past, then we should probably leave the Democrats in power indefinitely. It seems to bother people that a specific individual looted the treasury, yet you attribute that entire sin to the whole party; meanwhile, you'll overlook the Democrats' historical transgressions, which, in my view, are far more egregious. You'll ignore their incompetence, their failed cabinet picks, ministers who can't manage a local pharmacy, and every possible scandal.

I'm not under the impression that things will suddenly become perfect once the Republicans take over; I believe things might improve by maybe 10-15% during the first term, and that's about it. As for what the next GOP leader will be like as President, we simply cannot know—not that it matters to you or anyone else who thinks every conservative is a secret agent just because of some unproven rumor or a slight accent—because he hasn't had the chance to hold the office yet. But with the Democrat, we know exactly what we're getting.

Does that make sense?

Just so we understand each other, I truly believe most of you would vote for the Democrats even if the Republicans had a spotless history and were led by a group of Nobel laureates. ☕

And one more thing: this guy doesn't even have an economic plan, which is frankly shameful. He should have at least invented one, given it a catchy name like "Vision2030," and sold a dream to the public. That would at least be more honest.

I see that the Republican leader has announced he'll present his economic platform next week. Just imagine if he presents that plan and they fail to prove he was involved in some shadowy intelligence ring. What will we have left to talk about then? Will we just fall back to saying he isn't as charismatic as the Democrat?