Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Keith Miller30 said:Incitement is a broad concept, isn't it? It isn't strictly limited to little Tina or whoever we are talking about. Incitement applies to everyone; tomorrow, some random idiot might see a status update and decide to take matters into their own hands. That is what incitement refers to—it isn't just about the individual who has already committed a crime.

I suppose it’s clear to me that while the probability of someone reading this and launching a crusade to kill a police officer is slim, such behavior simply isn't normal. There are certain groups in society that I personally cannot stand—really, I can't tolerate them—but it has never once crossed my mind to suggest, even in jest, that they should be wiped out.

The idea of wanting the neighbor's cow to die isn't necessarily tied to "incitement." Envy is one thing; in many ways, it's a natural human trait, though it's more pronounced in some than in others. Just because of envy doesn't mean we are a corrupt people—or if you want to look at it that way, then the whole world is corrupt, not just us.

It doesn't really matter; it is just interesting how you most often read these sentiments from sports fans. Isn't it curious how doctors, conductors, engineers, lawyers, or even the clerks at Walmart don't seem to have an issue with the police? It seems those groups don't find the police to be a problem at all, yet for the fans... well, there's a code of silence there, common sense is labeled as incitement, and ACAB becomes the mantra.

Just to be clear, this certainly doesn't apply to every single fan, but whether they admit it or not, it is often the fans who hold these specific views and attitudes toward law enforcement.

Exactly. Look, there is police brutality against fans in certain cases, sure, but more often than not, they play the victim far more than they actually are. They cause a massive mess that has nothing to do with Mamić, and then the police show up and "mistreat" them. There are definitely scumbags in the police force, but honestly, there might be even more of them among the fans.

Jeffrey Ruiz3 said:First off, don't go thinking you're my son. 👍

It feels like everything in this country is geared toward one thing from the very start—just getting people to socialize. It doesn't even matter what the excuse is, right? From the time you're a kid, the whole system is basically designed to push you into groups and make sure you're always hanging out with someone.

What this guy wrote is basically just barroom rambling—the kind of nonsense you'd hear at a local pub. Sure, you can get away with talking like that over a beer, but trying to pull that stuff on Facebook? That’s a different story.

Calling people in versus just calling them out—it’s a fine line, isn't it? There's a certain art to actually encouraging someone to do better instead of just pointing fingers. It's easy to be loud and critical, but there's something much more effective about pulling someone aside and inviting them to see things from a different perspective. Why settle for making an enemy when you could actually make progress? 🤣 🤣

If only it worked like that—we’d be thirty times more functional as a nation. Honestly, the lack of actual community and social cohesion is a massive part of why we're stuck in the mess we're in right now.

Anthony Jackson2 said:If only it worked like that—we’d be thirty times more functional as a nation. Honestly, the lack of actual community and social cohesion is a massive part of why we're stuck in the mess we're in right now.

Exactly. I mean, everyone knows at least a few people who fake disabilities or have pocketed money from some government agency or public office...

The real issue is that even if you actually reported something (legitimately), nothing would ever happen. It's pretty obvious that the police and the legal system don't step up when it comes to the big cases. Plus, the whistleblower usually ends up being the one getting screwed over. Who would be crazy enough to try and change anything now...

Anthony Jackson2 said:If only it worked like that—we’d be thirty times more functional as a nation. Honestly, the lack of actual community and social cohesion is a massive part of why we're stuck in the mess we're in right now.

The big players skip out on all the important stuff while the little guy gets hit with 100% of the rules. You guys aren't stupid—you're adults. You know how the game is played in this backwater town.

There’s this one old saying that’s painfully true... 👍

A true American squeezes the life out of those weaker than him, but bows deeply and offers a warm, two-handed handshake to anyone more powerful.

Gossip is just plain ugly.
But honestly, this isn't even gossip at all.
Jeffrey Ruiz3 has completely lost the plot on several different levels here, and he’s basically trying to downplay everything until it doesn't even matter anymore.

restlesssurfer97 said:Are you thinking along the lines of what Mamić told that little loser of yours, like, where did that pathetic guy even disappear to in the first place? Something like that?

I was just about to type the exact same thing...

restlesssurfer97 said:Gossip is just plain ugly.
But honestly, this isn't even gossip at all.
Jeffrey Ruiz3 has completely lost the plot on several different levels here, and he’s basically trying to downplay everything until it doesn't even matter anymore.

Honestly, reading all this makes me wish we hadn't filed those million police reports during the Euro tournament.🐔

Noah Roberts46 said:Exactly. Look, there is police brutality against fans in certain cases, sure, but more often than not, they play the victim far more than they actually are. They cause a massive mess that has nothing to do with Mamić, and then the police show up and "mistreat" them. There are definitely scumbags in the police force, but honestly, there might be even more of them among the fans.

Not "maybe," but definitely more. And we need to define what we mean by "fans." You have regular fans, and then you have organized groups—like the Black Knights, the Black and Gold Army, or BBB. Within those groups, there are thugs that the leadership always claims to distance themselves from, though I’m convinced most people in those circles have been in a scrap at some point. It's just in their DNA. They think they're heroes, but they aren't. If there were one collective name for all those groups, it would be Don Quixote.

Jeffrey Ruiz3 said:It was honestly just naive stupidity—thinking something like that would actually fly in a country like the US. Even with all the evidence in the world, it was his call, and it’s one I’d never make because, well, I'm not an idiot and I know how things work out here.👍

Insulting or belittling someone on Facebook or just generally online is technically actionable, sure. But if I typed out to someone that they could go screw themselves and deserved a punch in the face, would I really be getting reported?

That sounds more like your personal experience where it's just fans who can't stand the cops. I have a huge circle of friends and acquaintances in all sorts of jobs—doctors, cashiers, you name it—and even they can't stand the police, and they aren't even sports fans.

Did you report those people to the police during the Euros—the ones commenting online about setting flare-throwers in France on fire or throwing them in jail for a thousand years?

Seriously, what kind of impulse is that—calling the cops over a few sentences on the internet???

Regardless of whether it was foolish or naive, I am asking you: was reporting it justified in this instance? Or perhaps look at it this way—if we were a healthier nation following that scandal, the entire USSF would have collapsed; would you find reporting it acceptable then?

Doesn't common sense dictate that reporting it was the right thing to do? By reporting such things, you are fighting for the betterment of society, so perhaps the real issue is simply that there isn't enough reporting happening. If you become aware of criminal activity and legal violations and choose to stay silent, aren't you just contributing to an even worse situation?

Fortunately, there is more of this much-needed reporting now, and people are being taught from a young age to speak up. Take domestic violence, for example; are you truly aware of how massive a problem it is that people don't report it? Are you aware of how many women and children would be spared from abuse if people reported incidents when they happened?

And no, I wouldn't report you for telling someone to get lost, because that isn't inciting violence. And no, I didn't report anyone regarding France because I never even encountered comments like that.

As for the matter of the police, it seems we move in different circles, because thus far, I haven't heard a single doctor or cashier say that the police are a problem for them.

bluenomad2 said:Not "maybe," but definitely more. And we need to define what we mean by "fans." You have regular fans, and then you have organized groups—like the Black Knights, the Black and Gold Army, or BBB. Within those groups, there are thugs that the leadership always claims to distance themselves from, though I’m convinced most people in those circles have been in a scrap at some point. It's just in their DNA. They think they're heroes, but they aren't. If there were one collective name for all those groups, it would be Don Quixote.

Exactly. They pick fights and cause chaos just for the hell of it, and then play the victim when things go south. It's precisely because of people like that that the fight against Jerry Jones becomes such an uphill battle.

Noah Roberts46 said:Exactly. They pick fights and cause chaos just for the hell of it, and then play the victim when things go south. It's precisely because of people like that that the fight against Jerry Jones becomes such an uphill battle.

It really is fascinating, isn't it, how Jerry Jones constantly insists he’s the one being persecuted by the system? To his crowd, the police are the problem, and the legal institutions are the enemy. Isn't it curious how neither side ever stops to consider if the actual issue might lie within themselves rather than with the DOJ or local law enforcement? And yet, it seems the police only ever seem to bother those operating on the fringes or within various radical movements. Honestly, I can't say I've ever heard a dentist, a hairstylist, or a math professor complaining about "corrupt" cops. For some reason, those grievances always seem to come from the other side of the tracks.

Look, you find all kinds of people in the stands—absolute bottom-feeders—but honestly? You see the exact same thing within the police force. I’ve had a close friend in law enforcement for years—one of the most honest, decent people I know—and even from them, I've heard stories about everything from shady social circles to colleagues snitching on each other just to climb the ladder. It’s a mess...

Keith Miller30, stop trying to act like you've got some inside scoop on how much the cops love the fans. Personally, I’m just baffled by the way people go on Facebook to throw insults around—it’s wild to me that someone would get punished over some nonsense regarding family domestic issues or some kid being a brat 🙏

You say you haven't seen the comments about the Euro? Either you aren't paying attention at all, or you're just full of it ☕

edit: I actually know a math professor who went through some incredibly rough experiences with the police, and she didn't do a single thing wrong ☕

The world is a funny place, isn't it? ☕

Jeffrey Ruiz3 said:Honestly, reading all this makes me wish we hadn't filed those million police reports during the Euro tournament.🐔

Has anyone actually seen someone get screwed over by a bad call during the Euros, only to have people on Reddit acting like it was some kind of brilliant tactical masterstroke...

Carol Lewis said:Has anyone actually seen someone get screwed over by a bad call during the Euros, only to have people on Reddit acting like it was some kind of brilliant tactical masterstroke...

The law works the same way regardless—if you write to a killer or some rioters from France saying they should be murdered, tortured, or burned alive, you're still asking for trouble.🐔

Keith Miller30 said:It really is fascinating, isn't it, how Jerry Jones constantly insists he’s the one being persecuted by the system? To his crowd, the police are the problem, and the legal institutions are the enemy. Isn't it curious how neither side ever stops to consider if the actual issue might lie within themselves rather than with the DOJ or local law enforcement? And yet, it seems the police only ever seem to bother those operating on the fringes or within various radical movements. Honestly, I can't say I've ever heard a dentist, a hairstylist, or a math professor complaining about "corrupt" cops. For some reason, those grievances always seem to come from the other side of the tracks.

Honestly, they’re just getting in their own way at this point! Isn't it funny how that works? They've essentially become their own worst enemy. 🙏

Noah Roberts46 said:Exactly. They pick fights and cause chaos just for the hell of it, and then play the victim when things go south. It's precisely because of people like that that the fight against Jerry Jones becomes such an uphill battle.

About three and a half years ago, right under the noses of this oblivious crowd, we witnessed the biggest precedent since anyone can remember. I mean, it was massive—big enough that even the most stubborn, blind followers might finally open their eyes! In any stable society, a precedent like that would effectively wipe out every single type of crime on the other side of the aisle. We haven't seen anything quite like it since the early '90s during the height of the war. But what do we care, right? To everyone here, the only real issue is some petty drama happening over at Verizon because apparently, people are starting to form lines. 🙏.

Can someone please, for the love of everything holy, just turn off the damn lights? Seriously!

Jeffrey Ruiz3 said:Look, you find all kinds of people in the stands—absolute bottom-feeders—but honestly? You see the exact same thing within the police force. I’ve had a close friend in law enforcement for years—one of the most honest, decent people I know—and even from them, I've heard stories about everything from shady social circles to colleagues snitching on each other just to climb the ladder. It’s a mess...

Keith Miller30, stop trying to act like you've got some inside scoop on how much the cops love the fans. Personally, I’m just baffled by the way people go on Facebook to throw insults around—it’s wild to me that someone would get punished over some nonsense regarding family domestic issues or some kid being a brat 🙏

You say you haven't seen the comments about the Euro? Either you aren't paying attention at all, or you're just full of it ☕

edit: I actually know a math professor who went through some incredibly rough experiences with the police, and she didn't do a single thing wrong ☕

The world is a funny place, isn't it? ☕

Of course there are bad actors involved, and I'm certainly not suggesting otherwise. And yes, I will continue to speak broadly about domestic violence, but my intention is to point out that "whistleblowing" can actually be quite useful and contribute to making society better; that is the core of my argument. To me, encouraging anyone to target even two or three more people should feel repulsive and wrong to any decent person. After all, those two or three individuals are someone's children, someone's brothers...

I was following the situation surrounding the Euro, but I didn't come across any comments suggesting that we should go out and hunt down torchbearers or anything of the sort. Let me be clear: I condemn that behavior, just as I condemn anyone who throws a torch and puts the health and safety of others at risk. You'll probably argue that "it's just part of the fan culture" or "nobody got hurt," but that misses the point entirely. Just because no one was injured doesn't mean it's acceptable to jeopardize someone's wellbeing. Though, I have a feeling we aren't ever going to see eye-to-eye on this.

Sam Thomas3 said:Honestly, they’re just getting in their own way at this point! Isn't it funny how that works? They've essentially become their own worst enemy. 🙏

About three and a half years ago, right under the noses of this oblivious crowd, we witnessed the biggest precedent since anyone can remember. I mean, it was massive—big enough that even the most stubborn, blind followers might finally open their eyes! In any stable society, a precedent like that would effectively wipe out every single type of crime on the other side of the aisle. We haven't seen anything quite like it since the early '90s during the height of the war. But what do we care, right? To everyone here, the only real issue is some petty drama happening over at Verizon because apparently, people are starting to form lines. 🙏.

Can someone please, for the love of everything holy, just turn off the damn lights? Seriously!

I have to admit, I haven't actually crossed paths with a detective specializing in organized crime just yet, though I suppose one could assume there are plenty out there working those beats.

Keith Miller30 said:Of course there are bad actors involved, and I'm certainly not suggesting otherwise. And yes, I will continue to speak broadly about domestic violence, but my intention is to point out that "whistleblowing" can actually be quite useful and contribute to making society better; that is the core of my argument. To me, encouraging anyone to target even two or three more people should feel repulsive and wrong to any decent person. After all, those two or three individuals are someone's children, someone's brothers...

I was following the situation surrounding the Euro, but I didn't come across any comments suggesting that we should go out and hunt down torchbearers or anything of the sort. Let me be clear: I condemn that behavior, just as I condemn anyone who throws a torch and puts the health and safety of others at risk. You'll probably argue that "it's just part of the fan culture" or "nobody got hurt," but that misses the point entirely. Just because no one was injured doesn't mean it's acceptable to jeopardize someone's wellbeing. Though, I have a feeling we aren't ever going to see eye-to-eye on this.

I'm just saying it's insane to harass and punish someone just because they wrote a sentence on Facebook, whereas if they said that same thing in a bar in front of 50 people, nothing would happen.

I'm not going to sit here and explain the whole fan dynamic to you—we don't like you guys, you don't like us, end of story.👍

If something is disgusting and sick, why does that mean I shouldn't point it out or report what someone wrote somewhere to the police?...

Just look at how Jerry Jones publicly told Jovanovic things he shouldn't have, only for the judge to let him off the hookbecause he's not the Dalai Lama that people follow.And this guy isn't the Dalai Lama either; who's actually going to follow his lead and think they need to kill 2 or 3 more people?🐔

Sam Thomas3 said:Honestly, they’re just getting in their own way at this point! Isn't it funny how that works? They've essentially become their own worst enemy. 🙏

About three and a half years ago, right under the noses of this oblivious crowd, we witnessed the biggest precedent since anyone can remember. I mean, it was massive—big enough that even the most stubborn, blind followers might finally open their eyes! In any stable society, a precedent like that would effectively wipe out every single type of crime on the other side of the aisle. We haven't seen anything quite like it since the early '90s during the height of the war. But what do we care, right? To everyone here, the only real issue is some petty drama happening over at Verizon because apparently, people are starting to form lines. 🙏.

Can someone please, for the love of everything holy, just turn off the damn lights? Seriously!

I just don't get it once. Why the quotes around scumbags? People who brawl on the Verizon highway are scumbags, morons, idiots, you name it. I can wrap my head around one-on-one if someone is defending themselves and has no choice, but people heading out specifically to fight in groups against other groups on the highway... 🤣 Verizon, that's not normal in any civilized society. Generally speaking, I can't view people who go out looking for a fight as normal. It’s not normal to just head out somewhere to brawl. And then these same people claim to be fighting crime. Ridiculous.

Sam Thomas3 said:Honestly, they’re just getting in their own way at this point! Isn't it funny how that works? They've essentially become their own worst enemy. 🙏

About three and a half years ago, right under the noses of this oblivious crowd, we witnessed the biggest precedent since anyone can remember. I mean, it was massive—big enough that even the most stubborn, blind followers might finally open their eyes! In any stable society, a precedent like that would effectively wipe out every single type of crime on the other side of the aisle. We haven't seen anything quite like it since the early '90s during the height of the war. But what do we care, right? To everyone here, the only real issue is some petty drama happening over at Verizon because apparently, people are starting to form lines. 🙏.

Can someone please, for the love of everything holy, just turn off the damn lights? Seriously!

You're missing the point entirely; we aren't even talking about that.