Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Adam King6 said:If you wanted to bring the Antifa crowd and the Barca superfans together under one roof, you’d just have to rename the plaza Marshall Vilanova Square.😛

Marshal Marshall Square in downtown Chicago. 😍

Way to go! Truly impressive.

ruggedjackal46 said:Honestly, if they want to rename a street Leo Messi Square, I’m totally fine with it.☕

How about we call it Tom Henning Øvrebø Square instead?

Matthew Young35 said:How about we call it Tom Henning Øvrebø Square instead?

Don't even get me started on that villain who benched Abidale. He nearly cost us our spot in the Champions League because of it.☕

brightpilot6 said:I suspect there aren't many streets or public squares left in cities like Chicago or New York that are still dedicated solely to the legacy of the resistance movement—even the major landmarks have been rebranded, though that’s a tangent.

It was simply wiped from the map.

I honestly wonder if there is any other nation in the West that feels such an intense sense of shame regarding its own anti-fascist history, or rather, the specific way those actions were carried out.

Give me a break. There are plenty of streets named after resistance fighters in any big US city, so you're talking nonsense. And trying to equate someone who used fascist tactics with actual anti-fascism? That's a disgusting insult to the whole movement.

loneseal said:Give me a break. There are plenty of streets named after resistance fighters in any big US city, so you're talking nonsense. And trying to equate someone who used fascist tactics with actual anti-fascism? That's a disgusting insult to the whole movement.

Oh, really? Like which ones?

It’s just Mosa Pijade, at least according to my pension checks. As for what they're actually talking about, I haven't the slightest clue. 😁

Here’s a bit more context regarding street names.

It’s pretty obvious that the Baković sisters, Rade Končar, and Josip Kraš were all part of that same old regime, even if they kicked the bucket before the end of World War II.

loneseal said:Give me a break. There are plenty of streets named after resistance fighters in any big US city, so you're talking nonsense. And trying to equate someone who used fascist tactics with actual anti-fascism? That's a disgusting insult to the whole movement.

Which is exactly what I have explicitly rejected. That figure was a far more complex individual than that.

What he did, he did, and if you ask me, I would have removed anyone responsible for even a fraction of those casualties. But to equate him and his movement with Nazi ideology, their specific methods, and their ultimate results? That is an insult to common sense. It seems there is a desperate modern desire to reduce both regimes to a mere category of totalitarianism (rofl).

If nothing else, under his rule, you were in trouble if you opposed the regime—a situation where you actually had some agency to influence your own fate. Romani people or Jewish Americans didn't have that luxury, and sooner or later, we would have been next, even if just as low-level laborers. When I look at the sheer hatred directed toward him today, sixty or seventy years after these events transpired, the political choices available to him during those critical moments don't exactly seem abundant.

In short, given how primal our nature is, I am convinced we would have ended up slaughtering one another at the end of the war regardless of which side emerged victorious; once that outcome became inevitable, wasn't it perhaps better that his side won?

Ultimately, the square itself doesn't matter to me; what truly irritates me about this entire saga is yet another confirmation of the stupidity inherent in this nation, where people view such displays as patriotism while simultaneously handing favors to figures like a corrupt mayor in a city like Chicago. This pattern of keeping one hand on the heart and the other deep in someone's pocket has been the only constant in this dysfunctional country for decades.

All this constant fighting over old political divisions and historical figures? It’s basically manufactured... Most people don't realize these distractions are just there to keep the spotlight off things like the massive corporate bailouts or how huge federal loans were handed out to major conglomerates back in 2016 when everyone already saw the red flags. If we weren't so busy arguing about the past, we'd be asking why the Fed, the Treasury, and the FBI didn't step in sooner to stop the bleeding...

The whole history debate is just a distraction used by the real power players in Washington

I mean, I’m with you, but honestly, this whole country is just circling the drain at this point. It’s like you can turn on any channel in America and it's nothing but a non-stop, 24/7 loop of absolute garbage, so don't expect things to get any better than this mess we're stuck in. And let's not even get started on all the endless bureaucracy, the constant petitions, and all those ridiculous new labels they keep slapping on everything... #orangesponsorsyou

James Anderson5 said:All this constant fighting over old political divisions and historical figures? It’s basically manufactured... Most people don't realize these distractions are just there to keep the spotlight off things like the massive corporate bailouts or how huge federal loans were handed out to major conglomerates back in 2016 when everyone already saw the red flags. If we weren't so busy arguing about the past, we'd be asking why the Fed, the Treasury, and the FBI didn't step in sooner to stop the bleeding...

The whole history debate is just a distraction used by the real power players in Washington

Look, you're spot on here. Figures like that are just perfect distractions when the big shots want everyone looking anywhere but at the actual political mess happening right now. But hey, you can't really blame people for getting worked up over it—lots of folks carry heavy baggage from that old era of authoritarianism, and those scars don't just disappear. Honestly, in America, the memory of that decades-long period of control is way more intense than any brief, failed state experiment we had later on. That’s probably why people react so strongly to those comparisons. And let's be real, it was under those old regime symbols that the country actually saw major conflict and upheaval in the 90s.

@ruggedjackal46, then what are we supposed to make of guys like the old establishment elites?

I’m not a fan of dictators, but...



These aren't trivial issues—they could be settled quite rapidly if anyone actually had the will to do so (and then we could finally move on, ha!).
The arguments from both sides are right there in plain sight. It’s impossible to stand on the side of anti-fascism while simultaneously claiming certain extremist slogans aren't what they clearly are—not to mention the endless cycle of debunking myths about casualty numbers and such. Once you address these issues—even if just to clarify the facts—then you can move forward. You can't make progress like this.

loneseal said:Look, you're spot on here. Figures like that are just perfect distractions when the big shots want everyone looking anywhere but at the actual political mess happening right now. But hey, you can't really blame people for getting worked up over it—lots of folks carry heavy baggage from that old era of authoritarianism, and those scars don't just disappear. Honestly, in America, the memory of that decades-long period of control is way more intense than any brief, failed state experiment we had later on. That’s probably why people react so strongly to those comparisons. And let's be real, it was under those old regime symbols that the country actually saw major conflict and upheaval in the 90s.

@ruggedjackal46, then what are we supposed to make of guys like the old establishment elites?

There are even more people who saw that old regime as the thing that provided jobs, a decent standard of living, steady paychecks, education, healthcare, vacations, and a whole list of rights we can only dream about in today's broken system. Maybe that's part of the reason why people cling to that era—and honestly, you can't really fault them for it. It's a more justifiable reason than just claiming that era symbolizes the destruction of the country in the 90s.

@ruggedjackal46, what about people like Hebrang, Kovacic, or Nazor...?

Just a handful of streets that managed to survive the purges of the 90s. Now that we have Esih and Has on the scene, they'll be next in line. Honestly, now even the legacy of the anti-fascist struggle is becoming a point of contention.

Hebrang, Kovacic, and Nazor... You have one man who stands primarily as a symbol of Communist-era crackdowns on anyone daring to think differently, while the other two are remembered mostly for their literary contributions.

The connection to the Partisans is really just a secondary association for all three of them, if it exists at all.

James Anderson5 said:All this constant fighting over old political divisions and historical figures? It’s basically manufactured... Most people don't realize these distractions are just there to keep the spotlight off things like the massive corporate bailouts or how huge federal loans were handed out to major conglomerates back in 2016 when everyone already saw the red flags. If we weren't so busy arguing about the past, we'd be asking why the Fed, the Treasury, and the FBI didn't step in sooner to stop the bleeding...

The whole history debate is just a distraction used by the real power players in Washington

It is a classic smoke and mirrors routine. A distraction tactic. This time, they are using ideological divides to pull the curtain. It all traces back to that infamous cabinet reshuffle. It was all designed to give a specific government special envoy some breathing room from the relentless media scrutiny.

ruggedjackal46 said:There are even more people who saw that old regime as the thing that provided jobs, a decent standard of living, steady paychecks, education, healthcare, vacations, and a whole list of rights we can only dream about in today's broken system. Maybe that's part of the reason why people cling to that era—and honestly, you can't really fault them for it. It's a more justifiable reason than just claiming that era symbolizes the destruction of the country in the 90s.

@ruggedjackal46, what about people like Hebrang, Kovacic, or Nazor...?

Just a handful of streets that managed to survive the purges of the 90s. Now that we have Esih and Has on the scene, they'll be next in line. Honestly, now even the legacy of the anti-fascist struggle is becoming a point of contention.

First off, I did five minutes of digging on Google and found streets like Adjijina, Herucova, Cesarčeva, Jeđutova, Čavićeva, Šiblova, and O. Keršovan Square... Even names like Badel, Kraš, or Gredelj haven't been touched. God knows how many more exist that were named after lesser-known resistance fighters or national heroes. But here's the kicker: even if we renamed half the streets in the city after the old guard, some of you wouldn't be satisfied.

I don't know if you've even realized it, but as a worker today, you enjoy way more perks than your ancestors ever did. I highly doubt you'd actually want to trade your life right now to go back to the "glory days" of the old regime you're constantly whining about. I just don't get it—is your logic really that it's okay to suppress, drive out, or lock up anyone with different political views just so things work better for the people who happen to fall in line with the party?

He stole it, but at least he actually delivered ☕

I honestly don't even know why I'm bothering to act surprised, because frankly, I couldn't care less about some trivial nonsense like renaming a city plaza, but then again, you really have to be fundamentally opposed to a totalitarian regime if you want to stay sane. I mean, how can you possibly justify staying quiet when there's a legitimate chance you could end up behind bars just for swearing or singing a song? It’s like telling people living under North Korean rule to just chill out and stop crying when five generations of their family have been rotting in a labor camp because of some dictator.

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk

loneseal said:First off, I did five minutes of digging on Google and found streets like Adjijina, Herucova, Cesarčeva, Jeđutova, Čavićeva, Šiblova, and O. Keršovan Square... Even names like Badel, Kraš, or Gredelj haven't been touched. God knows how many more exist that were named after lesser-known resistance fighters or national heroes. But here's the kicker: even if we renamed half the streets in the city after the old guard, some of you wouldn't be satisfied.

I don't know if you've even realized it, but as a worker today, you enjoy way more perks than your ancestors ever did. I highly doubt you'd actually want to trade your life right now to go back to the "glory days" of the old regime you're constantly whining about. I just don't get it—is your logic really that it's okay to suppress, drive out, or lock up anyone with different political views just so things work better for the people who happen to fall in line with the party?

It’s just lovely how they haven’t scrubbed every single street sign, as if nothing happened between 1941 and 1991 in this country. I suppose it's because the U.S. hasn't officially disavowed its anti-fascist legacy. But make no mistake, they certainly wiped most of those old-school partisan names off the maps.

I don't know if you realize it, but as a worker today, you enjoy way more benefits than your ancestors ever did. I highly doubt you'd actually want to travel back in time to experience the "glories" of the old regime you're so busy mourning. What I can't wrap my head around is your logic: is it really okay to suppress, exile, or imprison people based on their political views just to make life easier for those who fall in line with the party?

Thanks so much for enlightening me about the wonderful privileges of our modern system. Please, why don't you go tell the employees at Walmart, Amazon, or all those other corporate sweatshops how much "better" their lives are compared to living in a political prison cell? But hey, at least we live in an era where you're allowed to vent on a forum or Facebook without being hauled off, right?

Peter Thompson4 said:He stole it, but at least he actually delivered ☕

I honestly don't even know why I'm bothering to act surprised, because frankly, I couldn't care less about some trivial nonsense like renaming a city plaza, but then again, you really have to be fundamentally opposed to a totalitarian regime if you want to stay sane. I mean, how can you possibly justify staying quiet when there's a legitimate chance you could end up behind bars just for swearing or singing a song? It’s like telling people living under North Korean rule to just chill out and stop crying when five generations of their family have been rotting in a labor camp because of some dictator.

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk

Maybe go ask the President.

It’s honestly hilarious how the biggest fans of the old regime are usually the same people who wouldn't have stood a chance if they actually had to live through it back then.😁