Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

I guess we could really use a massive influx of foreign workers here in the States to fill all these gaps. It might actually be a good thing for people to head abroad for work, too. Maybe that's the only way the system stays flexible and people pick up some new skills. I spent about three years working overseas myself, so I didn't stay put. Either way, I learned that life's basic truths are pretty much the same everywhere; if you want to make something of yourself, it doesn't really matter if you're working here, in Norway, or even in Sri Lanka. I suppose anyone willing to put in the work can find success anywhere.

Jessica Gonzalez said:I don't think this is really a paradox or anything strange at all. Determining unemployment numbers is tricky because it isn't such a straightforward category. Some people are genuinely looking for work and just can't find anything, while others could start working right now but choose not to because the pay is too low or the commute is too long. Then you have people working under the table who are technically counted as unemployed, and so on. To be honest, I don't actually know anyone who is unemployed—not even among my relatives or friends. My mom was out of work for a bit, but she didn't really want to work anyway, so she probably would have preferred to just retire early. I think one friend of mine is still unemployed, but that’s mostly because he got passed over at every single job he applied for. I think an influential member on this forum even tried to set up an interview for him once, but he showed up to the meeting wearing a tracksuit, haha. I guess it's only people like that who stay unemployed. Most other people could probably find a job in a different industry by tomorrow if they had to. It feels like around here, there's a certain stigma against working construction or in hospitality; people would rather go work abroad or juggle five different side hustles just to make ends meet. In the States, during the recession, we saw managers who used to handle millions of dollars delivering pizzas, and nobody thought twice about it. Or look at how Uber drivers in places like Sri Lanka might be competing for passengers at 5:00 AM. It's not even a formal company, just freelance driving in older cars, and while the earnings might seem low by our standards, they're out there doing it and making progress. Even in Mexico, people often spend an hour or two after their office jobs driving people around for a little extra cash just to provide for their kids. In Dubai, taxi drivers work from 4:00 AM until 11:00 PM, and there are thousands of them. But I suppose some people just think they're too good for certain types of work.

I guess salary levels aren't actually the main issue here. Even though our GDP per capita is much lower than somewhere like the Czech Republic, wages seem to be right around the same level. If you look at productivity, they might actually be a bit too high. Personally, I earn a pretty great salary by international standards, even though I'm not in management or some high-level specialist role. The real problem seems to be the cost of living. There isn't enough competition, and maybe because of general consumer habits, we end up overpaying for basic necessities. It reminds me of how things work in Poland; their wages might be slightly lower, but their retail prices are about 20-30% cheaper, so you can actually buy more with the same amount of money. It was interesting to see how quickly retailers started running massive sales once a major player like Walmart faced a sudden slump. Also, people in cities like New York or San Francisco paying $3,000 or $4,000 a month for an apartment and acting like that's perfectly normal—it’s wild, I guess. 🤣

I guess people around here tend to talk a big game but don't always follow through with the work. Honestly, there's not much drive for it. At my company, people are practically begging for field assignments in some of the wealthiest US suburbs, and I think it's a missed opportunity. You could easily tuck away an extra $2,000 in a month, yet nobody seems to want to go. These trips only last a week or two, maybe a couple of months at most. Personally, I think it sounds like a great deal—you get to see the world and make some solid cash at the same time.

So, who should we actually trust to get the job done? It’s always a gamble... 😁It’s honestly wild when you see all those crowds at federal agencies and government offices pulling in $150k or more...$5.00 If you don't want any real responsibility or hard work, you'll just end up feeling cheated... they’d probably rather go wash dishes in Germany, where it feels like things are actually fair...

The whole system here feels like it’s rigged by corruption that just eats away at people's integrity. It's no secret that the construction industry has been driven by shady dealings for years, keeping housing prices artificially high just so certain groups can maximize their profits through these little cartels... You see the exact same pattern with the big banks, the food industry, and pretty much everything else. Just look at those ridiculous utility surcharges or how they're hiking up electricity rates under the guise of "green energy"—it's obvious to anyone watching who's actually getting rich off those wind farm concessions...

The justice system is pretty much broken too, and honestly, the public is just split between those deeply entrenched insiders who have everything rigged in their favor and everyone else who's left disorganized and struggling to push for real change...

Honestly, I can't say I know too much about the unemployment situation, but from what I've seen, it seems like most people looking for work are actually praying they don't find anything at all!

James Anderson5 said:So, who should we actually trust to get the job done? It’s always a gamble... 😁It’s honestly wild when you see all those crowds at federal agencies and government offices pulling in $150k or more...$5.00 If you don't want any real responsibility or hard work, you'll just end up feeling cheated... they’d probably rather go wash dishes in Germany, where it feels like things are actually fair...

The whole system here feels like it’s rigged by corruption that just eats away at people's integrity. It's no secret that the construction industry has been driven by shady dealings for years, keeping housing prices artificially high just so certain groups can maximize their profits through these little cartels... You see the exact same pattern with the big banks, the food industry, and pretty much everything else. Just look at those ridiculous utility surcharges or how they're hiking up electricity rates under the guise of "green energy"—it's obvious to anyone watching who's actually getting rich off those wind farm concessions...

The justice system is pretty much broken too, and honestly, the public is just split between those deeply entrenched insiders who have everything rigged in their favor and everyone else who's left disorganized and struggling to push for real change...

It’s not some deep moral crisis or a lack of willpower. People aren't abandoning their homes and moving to Germany just because they're fed up with the local political cronyism or the way the system is rigged for insiders. They aren't running away from home out of spite. They're doing it because they have to. In Germany, washing dishes earns you a paycheck that actually means something—money you can actually send back to support your family. Back here? You can barely make enough to cover your own groceries. At the end of the day, it isn't philosophy; it's just simple math.

Who is anyone even looking at? Honestly, who cares about the bureaucrats in federal agencies or those massive state-owned corporations? What does any of that have to do with me? Everything you’re mentioning happens all over the world, and frankly, often in much worse ways. In places like Sri Lanka, half the country is still essentially a no-go zone, and the government practically hides the statistics regarding the hundreds of thousands lost during their twenty-five-year civil war, yet people still find ways to earn a living and drive for Uber at 4 in the morning. I remember being on a main avenue in Mexico City and seeing a tent set up by families of students who were killed in a mass slaughter involving local gangs and corrupt police—just imagine dealing with that kind of government and political system. And yet, I think I saw ten times more optimism and joy in people's daily lives there. Even if they are living behind barbed wire in many neighborhoods. Before the war, Syria was such a mess; it wasn't just a police state, it felt like a paranoid, surreal town straight out of a "1984" novel. Still, I feel like I saw more happiness in those people than among our own "hardworking martyrs." Americans can be pretty lazy, I guess.

ruggedjackal46 said:It’s not some deep moral crisis or a lack of willpower. People aren't abandoning their homes and moving to Germany just because they're fed up with the local political cronyism or the way the system is rigged for insiders. They aren't running away from home out of spite. They're doing it because they have to. In Germany, washing dishes earns you a paycheck that actually means something—money you can actually send back to support your family. Back here? You can barely make enough to cover your own groceries. At the end of the day, it isn't philosophy; it's just simple math.

I suppose dishwashers are pretty much seen as middle class in any society. It’s a tough grind, and maybe it just isn't worth it for most people.

Justin James10 said:Honestly, I can't say I know too much about the unemployment situation, but from what I've seen, it seems like most people looking for work are actually praying they don't find anything at all!

But then again, what kind of unemployment are we talking about? I guess it varies. My cousin, who spent five years in rehab after some pretty heavy drug use, is actually juggling three different jobs right now. He might not have any specialized skills, but he’s definitely willing to put in the work.

ruggedjackal46 said:It’s not some deep moral crisis or a lack of willpower. People aren't abandoning their homes and moving to Germany just because they're fed up with the local political cronyism or the way the system is rigged for insiders. They aren't running away from home out of spite. They're doing it because they have to. In Germany, washing dishes earns you a paycheck that actually means something—money you can actually send back to support your family. Back here? You can barely make enough to cover your own groceries. At the end of the day, it isn't philosophy; it's just simple math.

Well, part of that is true, but I know plenty of people who left simply because they couldn't stand the social climate or the lack of career growth... maybe it's hard to generalize like that...

Jessica Gonzalez said:But then again, what kind of unemployment are we talking about? I guess it varies. My cousin, who spent five years in rehab after some pretty heavy drug use, is actually juggling three different jobs right now. He might not have any specialized skills, but he’s definitely willing to put in the work.

It’s definitely true that a lot of people just don't want to work—whether it's due to the culture, political cronyism, or just pure laziness—but the reality is they'll run from a job like the plague...

Jessica Gonzalez said:I suppose dishwashers are pretty much seen as middle class in any society. It’s a tough grind, and maybe it just isn't worth it for most people.

Based on some of the comments here, you'd think janitors should be considered middle management and getting paid top dollar!

Jessica Gonzalez said:I suppose dishwashers are pretty much seen as middle class in any society. It’s a tough grind, and maybe it just isn't worth it for most people.

So, does earning a decent paycheck for yourself and helping out a family member somehow qualify you as "middle class" now?

James Anderson5 said:Well, part of that is true, but I know plenty of people who left simply because they couldn't stand the social climate or the lack of career growth... maybe it's hard to generalize like that...

It’s definitely true that a lot of people just don't want to work—whether it's due to the culture, political cronyism, or just pure laziness—but the reality is they'll run from a job like the plague...

Not everyone moves overseas just to wash dishes.

It's definitely true that a huge chunk of the population doesn't want to work because they simply can't be bothered—whether it's due to the social vibe, cronyism, or just plain old laziness—but the fact remains that they run from work like it's a plague.

People don't work because they feel like it; they work because they have to.

Justin James10 said:Based on some of the comments here, you'd think janitors should be considered middle management and getting paid top dollar!

Cleaning could actually be a pretty profitable business, I guess. The first thing you'd need to tackle is what everyone in America has been debating lately—outsourcing. It seems like every single government office or institution here keeps its own dedicated staff of cleaners on the payroll. In a more streamlined economy, maybe you'd just have a solid private firm that employs the cleaning crews and then sends them out to various locations whenever they land a contract. That way, the companies needing service pay less because they aren't carrying those positions on their own books, while the specialized firm can leverage all those different contracts to bring in enough revenue to function well and perhaps even offer higher wages. I know folks in Florida complain about not finding enough help, but then again, in some parts of Europe, guests at ski resorts end up cleaning their own apartments. I suppose it isn't really a labor shortage issue, but more a matter of how we approach solving the problem.

ruggedjackal46 said:So, does earning a decent paycheck for yourself and helping out a family member somehow qualify you as "middle class" now?

Not everyone moves overseas just to wash dishes.

It's definitely true that a huge chunk of the population doesn't want to work because they simply can't be bothered—whether it's due to the social vibe, cronyism, or just plain old laziness—but the fact remains that they run from work like it's a plague.

People don't work because they feel like it; they work because they have to.

I'm not so sure about that. I guess some people work simply to cover their basic needs, no matter what those might be. Like, a hunter-gatherer in the Amazon might hunt just to stay alive, but most Americans work because they want to afford more and live better. Believe it or not, even in places where the government might offer things like universal basic income, I suspect many people would still choose to work so they can earn more. Maybe certain groups might rely on social safety nets, but it seems like some cultures just aren't big fans of hard work.

Jessica Gonzalez said:I'm not so sure about that. I guess some people work simply to cover their basic needs, no matter what those might be. Like, a hunter-gatherer in the Amazon might hunt just to stay alive, but most Americans work because they want to afford more and live better. Believe it or not, even in places where the government might offer things like universal basic income, I suspect many people would still choose to work so they can earn more. Maybe certain groups might rely on social safety nets, but it seems like some cultures just aren't big fans of hard work.

Fair point, but let's be real: people don't work because they're deeply in love with their jobs; they work because they need an income—to cover the basics, to treat themselves to something nice, you name it. At its core, it’s just a transaction. A worker trades their time, energy, and skills for a paycheck. It isn't about loving or hating labor; it's simply about whether the trade is viable and if the worker can actually secure that income.

The fact that there's high unemployment and a massive exodus of workers moving to other states in America doesn't have anything to do with some supposed cultural "hatred of work." It's much simpler: the transaction isn't happening. Either there aren't enough jobs, the wages are insulting, or the pay for that same work just a few hundred miles away is ten times higher. In these cases, you can't blame a few "bad" employers, and you certainly can't blame "lazy" employees either.

Jessica Gonzalez said:I'm not so sure about that. I guess some people work simply to cover their basic needs, no matter what those might be. Like, a hunter-gatherer in the Amazon might hunt just to stay alive, but most Americans work because they want to afford more and live better. Believe it or not, even in places where the government might offer things like universal basic income, I suspect many people would still choose to work so they can earn more. Maybe certain groups might rely on social safety nets, but it seems like some cultures just aren't big fans of hard work.

Outsourcing? In the States? You're more likely to see that kind of capitalist evil thrive in North Korea than it ever will here!

ruggedjackal46 said:Fair point, but let's be real: people don't work because they're deeply in love with their jobs; they work because they need an income—to cover the basics, to treat themselves to something nice, you name it. At its core, it’s just a transaction. A worker trades their time, energy, and skills for a paycheck. It isn't about loving or hating labor; it's simply about whether the trade is viable and if the worker can actually secure that income.

The fact that there's high unemployment and a massive exodus of workers moving to other states in America doesn't have anything to do with some supposed cultural "hatred of work." It's much simpler: the transaction isn't happening. Either there aren't enough jobs, the wages are insulting, or the pay for that same work just a few hundred miles away is ten times higher. In these cases, you can't blame a few "bad" employers, and you certainly can't blame "lazy" employees either.

Believe it or not, I think there are actually people who truly love what they do and go above and beyond.

And as for that idea that there's a place just a couple hundred miles away where average salaries are ten times higher... maybe show me where that is on a map.

Jessica Gonzalez said:Believe it or not, I think there are actually people who truly love what they do and go above and beyond.

And as for that idea that there's a place just a couple hundred miles away where average salaries are ten times higher... maybe show me where that is on a map.

What, are they doing it for the exposure?

And while we're at it, just point me to the spot on the map where there's a country a few hundred miles away with average salaries ten times higher than ours.

Since when were we talking about the national average?

What can you really expect from an uneducated population like those in America? Everyone wants to do the bare minimum while maintaining the illusion of having everything just so others can envy them...
These fairy tales about working in Europe being peddled by American news sites and portals should be written by people who have actually lived and worked there. It’s a joke when a country that hasn't even hit a 90% literacy rate claims everyone is suddenly a polyglot, mastering local languages instantly and cherry-picking high-paying jobs they actually enjoy... Look at the reality in Germany or Austria; for twenty years now, it's been obvious that an average family of four can barely survive on a single monthly paycheck. Yet, Americans in those same countries manage to survive on lower wages, save some money, and—not being cheap—send it back home so everyone back home sees how well they're doing...
A friend's brother moved to Germany two years ago because he had some relatives who would take him in temporarily until he could find his own footing and an apartment. As it turns out, rentals are incredibly expensive; they eat up a third of your income right off the bat. Add food, utilities, and basic living costs, and after two years on a salary of roughly $2,000 a month, he's still essentially a subtenant with relatives just to stay below market rates. He's fine since he's single, but if his pay were supporting a whole family, I doubt living and working in Germany would be nearly as lucrative as our glorious American media outlets claim, especially since the days of sleeping in construction site barracks are long gone...

Living solo in Germany doesn't seem worth much on an average salary, but for a family? If both partners work and one can pull in something like $3,300 a month—which is totally doable for healthcare workers—then there's really no question about it.

The situation here is complicated; it isn't just about people being lazy, location matters immensely too. Living in Chicago is one thing, the Midwest is another, and then you have the coast...

Jessica Gonzalez said:I'm not so sure about that. I guess some people work simply to cover their basic needs, no matter what those might be. Like, a hunter-gatherer in the Amazon might hunt just to stay alive, but most Americans work because they want to afford more and live better. Believe it or not, even in places where the government might offer things like universal basic income, I suspect many people would still choose to work so they can earn more. Maybe certain groups might rely on social safety nets, but it seems like some cultures just aren't big fans of hard work.

Actually, a huge chunk of Americans are basically living on social security already, especially since the average retirement age in the US is only around 53, which covers a massive part of that demographic. It's the same story with everyone working in big public administration roles, like government agencies and state-owned corporations...

There are actually some pretty solid analytical articles written on this topic if anyone feels like reading up on it...

A single guy living on $2,000 a month—and even then, he’s coming up short at first 🙏

I don't know... I was giving him advice yesterday, but honestly, what do people like this even expect? In my opinion, the internet is largely to blame for this downward spiral in society. Seriously—for the last decade or so, everyone’s dealing with some kind of crisis, acting like they're too good for hard work or actual education, yet they're too lazy to even look up basic information for a tiny little step forward in life...
Anyway, I'm going to take a quick stroll over to visit the crew in Germany. I'll be back in a few days 🙏

James Anderson5 said:Living solo in Germany doesn't seem worth much on an average salary, but for a family? If both partners work and one can pull in something like $3,300 a month—which is totally doable for healthcare workers—then there's really no question about it.

The situation here is complicated; it isn't just about people being lazy, location matters immensely too. Living in Chicago is one thing, the Midwest is another, and then you have the coast...

Actually, a huge chunk of Americans are basically living on social security already, especially since the average retirement age in the US is only around 53, which covers a massive part of that demographic. It's the same story with everyone working in big public administration roles, like government agencies and state-owned corporations...

There are actually some pretty solid analytical articles written on this topic if anyone feels like reading up on it...

We should also note that the government intentionally penalizes single people through taxes—it hits them hard when it comes to overtime pay. The number of singles and single parents in Germany is quite high, and the state is essentially nudging people toward starting families. It’s driven by the declining birth rate, which is bad news for the nation—and especially for their social security system...