Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Justin James10 said:Oh, you know, it's just the idea that a tiny little non-profit organization with maybe 300 members somehow holds some historical right to receive massive amounts of funding—just so they can play on equal footing with organizations that have millions of members. Why? Because that's just... hmm... "fair," right?

What’s actually fair is for all of them to collectively drain the budget so we don't end up looking like a tiny, bankrupt Greece.

So, what's the plan? Cut off all the funding for non-profits, privatize every single government-owned company... What exactly is the state supposed to spend tax dollars on then? Or should we just dismantle the government entirely?

ruggedjackal46 said:So, what's the plan? Cut off all the funding for non-profits, privatize every single government-owned company... What exactly is the state supposed to spend tax dollars on then? Or should we just dismantle the government entirely?

What budget money are we even talking about? The government survives on massive debt precisely because the budget is so bloated.

The government's role should be focused on its core functions, like the judiciary (ensuring legal certainty), maintaining order, and national defense—which, in a broader sense, includes responding to emergencies like fires and floods.

It isn't the government's job to manufacture instant soup packets or fund various non-profit organizations!🙂

Justin James10 said:What budget money are we even talking about? The government survives on massive debt precisely because the budget is so bloated.

The government's role should be focused on its core functions, like the judiciary (ensuring legal certainty), maintaining order, and national defense—which, in a broader sense, includes responding to emergencies like fires and floods.

It isn't the government's job to manufacture instant soup packets or fund various non-profit organizations!🙂

Are you sure about that?

The government should focus its spending on core functions, like the judiciary (ensuring legal stability), maintaining order, national defense (which, in a broader sense, includes responding to things like fires and floods), and so on.

And what exactly qualifies as those "core functions"? More importantly, if we strip everything back, how would you actually tackle corruption within the courts, the police, or the military?

Sid, our budget is basically a fantasy—it looks more like a Ponzi scheme waiting to collapse at any second. We're living entirely on borrowed time and credit.

Corruption is impossible to fully root out because it's just baked into human nature. Isn't it obvious? That's why we need to get the government's hands out of everything.

The whole "deregulation" logic—the idea that stripping away rules actually makes them easier to enforce—is easily one of the greatest scams ever cooked up by the global con artist industry. Honestly, the crew over at the Beggar's Sons group deserves zero credit for coming up with this nonsense, much less the people who have been peddling this same tired story for decades.

Justin James10 said:Sid, our budget is basically a fantasy—it looks more like a Ponzi scheme waiting to collapse at any second. We're living entirely on borrowed time and credit.

Corruption is impossible to fully root out because it's just baked into human nature. Isn't it obvious? That's why we need to get the government's hands out of everything.

The same logic applies to every nation operating under the system you're defending—especially the US. So, what's the grand plan here? Just double down on this path and hope for the best?

Corruption is impossible to eradicate because it's baked into human nature. That’s why we need to keep the government's hands out of everything as much as possible.

Wait, let me get this straight: people are inherently corrupt, so the solution is to give them less regulation? I'm struggling to follow that logic.

We really don't need an even larger and more expensive government 🙏

Steven Fox37 said:The whole "deregulation" logic—the idea that stripping away rules actually makes them easier to enforce—is easily one of the greatest scams ever cooked up by the global con artist industry. Honestly, the crew over at the Beggar's Sons group deserves zero credit for coming up with this nonsense, much less the people who have been peddling this same tired story for decades.

I totally agree... thinking we can progress just by deregulating everything is such a load of crap.

ruggedjackal46 said:The same logic applies to every nation operating under the system you're defending—especially the US. So, what's the grand plan here? Just double down on this path and hope for the best?

Corruption is impossible to eradicate because it's baked into human nature. That’s why we need to keep the government's hands out of everything as much as possible.

Wait, let me get this straight: people are inherently corrupt, so the solution is to give them less regulation? I'm struggling to follow that logic.

Heaven forbid we actually follow the American model! 🤣 I suppose we should look to Venezuela or Greece as our guiding lights instead, right? ☕

No, the real issue is that since people are prone to corruption, we need to strip away the opportunities for it to happen. Let them deal with their greed in a truly free market.

ruggedjackal46 said:The same logic applies to every nation operating under the system you're defending—especially the US. So, what's the grand plan here? Just double down on this path and hope for the best?

Corruption is impossible to eradicate because it's baked into human nature. That’s why we need to keep the government's hands out of everything as much as possible.

Wait, let me get this straight: people are inherently corrupt, so the solution is to give them less regulation? I'm struggling to follow that logic.

Look, Americans aren't exactly my role model for much, but I gotta admit they've got a solid setup when it comes to associations. You've got your for-profit groups and then your non-profits, and honestly, you shouldn't even have to explain the difference. Even in the States, those non-profits get funding, but usually only if they're local and actually working directly with people. Those big national non-profits that basically just exist to philosophize? They mostly just live off donations.

Sandra Johnson58 said:I totally agree... thinking we can progress just by deregulating everything is such a load of crap.

Oh, absolutely! As if we just need some five-year plan and a government mandate to suddenly kickstart economic growth.☕>

Sandra Johnson58 said:Look, Americans aren't exactly my role model for much, but I gotta admit they've got a solid setup when it comes to associations. You've got your for-profit groups and then your non-profits, and honestly, you shouldn't even have to explain the difference. Even in the States, those non-profits get funding, but usually only if they're local and actually working directly with people. Those big national non-profits that basically just exist to philosophize? They mostly just live off donations.

Look, the USA isn't perfect by any stretch, but their system is certainly miles ahead of our chronically failing state.

Justin James10 said:Heaven forbid we actually follow the American model! 🤣 I suppose we should look to Venezuela or Greece as our guiding lights instead, right? ☕

No, the real issue is that since people are prone to corruption, we need to strip away the opportunities for it to happen. Let them deal with their greed in a truly free market.

Following the US path doesn't mean getting the same results as the US. They are two completely different scales of nation. If you’re going to copy someone's playbook, you should pick countries of a relatively similar size. For crying out loud, look at what a tiny place like Estonia did with its economy—after the mid-90s, they were in a much worse spot than the US was, and now they're miles ahead when it comes to entrepreneurship and being open to foreign investment. Ireland had massive growth too, even though they were already ahead of us. To me, Singapore is a fantastic example of a country with insane economic growth—way better than most Western nations—they have a superior pension system, and it’s all built on incredibly low taxes compared to the rest of the West.

If you want an actual comparison, you need to look at countries with under 10 million people—something comparable to our situation rather than using the US or, as we love to do, Germany. This isn't just about associations; it's a general rule.

Justin James10 said:Oh, absolutely! As if we just need some five-year plan and a government mandate to suddenly kickstart economic growth.☕>

Strawman.☕ Just because there's regulation doesn't mean it's automatically communism. I mean, look at those mega capitalists in the West you're always swearing by—the second a crisis hits, they're the first ones running to bail out the banks and the auto industry using money they squeezed out of regular citizens. Like, seriously, if something goes wrong with Volkswagen or even Airbus, France and Germany jump in immediately to protect them, whether it's through under-the-table deals, guarantees, or just heavy political lobbying to make sure those companies land global contracts. When they do that, everyone calls it capitalism and thinks it's cool, right? But the moment we try to save our own shipyards, suddenly it's "terrible" and we get lectured by all these hypocrites from the West. Since we have such spineless people in charge here, they just take those lectures lying down and apologize, instead of showing some backbone and throwing their own interference and corporate favoritism right back in their faces. Now, my opinion that we shouldn't bother saving anything because we should just keep doing things the old way... well, that's a different story and probably our own fault.

Actually, no—the USA was mentioned.

Just look at Ireland as an example. It used to be a chronically impoverished nation due to its messy history. And yet, look at them now! They’ve managed to surpass the UK in GDP per capita. Isn't that incredible?

Justin James10 said:Heaven forbid we actually follow the American model! 🤣 I suppose we should look to Venezuela or Greece as our guiding lights instead, right? ☕

No, the real issue is that since people are prone to corruption, we need to strip away the opportunities for it to happen. Let them deal with their greed in a truly free market.

So, what’s the verdict here? Are we destined to follow the path of the USA, or are we heading straight down the drain like Greece? Is there really no middle ground, no third option sitting there waiting for us to grab it?

Sandra Johnson58 said:Look, Americans aren't exactly my role model for much, but I gotta admit they've got a solid setup when it comes to associations. You've got your for-profit groups and then your non-profits, and honestly, you shouldn't even have to explain the difference. Even in the States, those non-profits get funding, but usually only if they're local and actually working directly with people. Those big national non-profits that basically just exist to philosophize? They mostly just live off donations.

Non-profits operate one way in America, but let’s be honest—the whole donation ecosystem looks fundamentally different when you're talking about a massive nation of 325 million people versus a much smaller country of only 3.5 million. It’s a completely different scale, isn't it?

shadowmarlin22 said:Following the US path doesn't mean getting the same results as the US. They are two completely different scales of nation. If you’re going to copy someone's playbook, you should pick countries of a relatively similar size. For crying out loud, look at what a tiny place like Estonia did with its economy—after the mid-90s, they were in a much worse spot than the US was, and now they're miles ahead when it comes to entrepreneurship and being open to foreign investment. Ireland had massive growth too, even though they were already ahead of us. To me, Singapore is a fantastic example of a country with insane economic growth—way better than most Western nations—they have a superior pension system, and it’s all built on incredibly low taxes compared to the rest of the West.

If you want an actual comparison, you need to look at countries with under 10 million people—something comparable to our situation rather than using the US or, as we love to do, Germany. This isn't just about associations; it's a general rule.

Singapore really blew up because of the huge economic explosion in their region and their strategic location. Plus, they're basically a tax haven for wealthy Chinese investors, kind of like how Switzerland works in Europe. It's hard to copy them because of those factors, plus their culture is totally different, which matters a lot too. Maybe the Czech Republic or Slovakia could be better models since we share some similarities.

ruggedjackal46 said:So, what’s the verdict here? Are we destined to follow the path of the USA, or are we heading straight down the drain like Greece? Is there really no middle ground, no third option sitting there waiting for us to grab it?

Non-profits operate one way in America, but let’s be honest—the whole donation ecosystem looks fundamentally different when you're talking about a massive nation of 325 million people versus a much smaller country of only 3.5 million. It’s a completely different scale, isn't it?

Man, you're basically just his mirror image. He'd probably stop funding every single non-profit, while you'd keep the checks rolling for all of them. But hey, like you said above, there actually is a third way—we could audit all these organizations and figure out which ones actually provide value to society. Because let's be real, some of them only exist so people with sketchy degrees can collect a paycheck they think they deserve. I mean, hats off to the groups doing actual good, like those advocating for the blind or specific community needs, but yeah... there are definitely some outfits out there that are about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

Sandra Johnson58 said:Strawman.☕ Just because there's regulation doesn't mean it's automatically communism. I mean, look at those mega capitalists in the West you're always swearing by—the second a crisis hits, they're the first ones running to bail out the banks and the auto industry using money they squeezed out of regular citizens. Like, seriously, if something goes wrong with Volkswagen or even Airbus, France and Germany jump in immediately to protect them, whether it's through under-the-table deals, guarantees, or just heavy political lobbying to make sure those companies land global contracts. When they do that, everyone calls it capitalism and thinks it's cool, right? But the moment we try to save our own shipyards, suddenly it's "terrible" and we get lectured by all these hypocrites from the West. Since we have such spineless people in charge here, they just take those lectures lying down and apologize, instead of showing some backbone and throwing their own interference and corporate favoritism right back in their faces. Now, my opinion that we shouldn't bother saving anything because we should just keep doing things the old way... well, that's a different story and probably our own fault.

And who actually said that government intervention is a good thing in certain cases over in the West? Not a single soul, apparently.

It’s a good thing you brought up the shipyards. Those places are nothing but bottomless money pits whose peak achievement is churning out a basic tanker. And wouldn't you know it, it's never profitable because China and Korea can pump them out for pennies. So what’s the solution? Just throw more cash into that black hole without changing a single thing? 🙏 All these shipyards, petrochemical plants, steel mills, and the like are chronic losers; most went bankrupt back in the early 80s and remain a gaping wound in the American economy. Take certain chemical plants, for example. Have they ever actually turned a profit? It would probably be cheaper to just hit them with a tank of gasoline and light them up—it would cause less damage overall.☕

Why don't we just follow the lead of Ireland, Estonia (like shadowmarlin22 suggested), or even the Czech Republic? 🙂

Phil, nobody is actually suggesting we go out and deregulate the entire banking sector overnight. In our neck of the woods, just having transparent management of funds would be a massive leap forward. We’d start by cleaning out the cronies and all that redundant bloat, then move toward deregulation and cutting through the red tape—you know, so I don't have to worry about whether my hypothetical hair salon needs three specific steps or if the last step has to be exactly 25 to 58 centimeters away from the restroom just to satisfy some bureaucrat.
People are basically screaming for easier ways to run small and medium businesses, lower taxes, and an actual decent climate for investment.
Just look at how much good some of those independent local movements have done in smaller towns; they actually stepped up to stop the usual political vultures from bleeding the budget dry and forced everyone to spend money more rationally.
Honestly, I don't see any reason for county governments to even exist, let alone with this many of them cluttering things up.