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Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Started by Morgan Williams · · 👁 1.2K views · 18K replies

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Participants Morgan WilliamsRachel Cooper3Joseph Clark37Keith Patel81darkseal9neonfalcon16urbanhawk17Amanda Evans2bluebison47brightpilot6Patrick MartinJoseph Fisher3steelharbor9Robin Fox2Maria AndersonAnthony Jackson2Jason Newmanruggedjackal46Michelle Palmer6Jeffrey Edwards76Jason Campbell70Anthony Barrett37graniteangler31Dennis Evans6 …
Justin James10 Justin James10 Regular
440 messages
joined Oct 2017
#8921 ·
ruggedjackal46 said:So, what’s the verdict here? Are we destined to follow the path of the USA, or are we heading straight down the drain like Greece? Is there really no middle ground, no third option sitting there waiting for us to grab it?

Non-profits operate one way in America, but let’s be honest—the whole donation ecosystem looks fundamentally different when you're talking about a massive nation of 325 million people versus a much smaller country of only 3.5 million. It’s a completely different scale, isn't it?

Well, why don't you look at an Estonian nation instead of using the USA as your benchmark? There actually is a third option, often called the "third position." It first emerged in France during the early 20th century, and historically speaking, it served as an intellectual precursor to fascism.☕>
Sandra Johnson58 Sandra Johnson58 Active Member
125 messages
joined Apr 2019
#8922 ·
Justin James10 said:And who actually said that government intervention is a good thing in certain cases over in the West? Not a single soul, apparently.

It’s a good thing you brought up the shipyards. Those places are nothing but bottomless money pits whose peak achievement is churning out a basic tanker. And wouldn't you know it, it's never profitable because China and Korea can pump them out for pennies. So what’s the solution? Just throw more cash into that black hole without changing a single thing? 🙏 All these shipyards, petrochemical plants, steel mills, and the like are chronic losers; most went bankrupt back in the early 80s and remain a gaping wound in the American economy. Take certain chemical plants, for example. Have they ever actually turned a profit? It would probably be cheaper to just hit them with a tank of gasoline and light them up—it would cause less damage overall.☕

Look, I wasn't saying it was actually good. I was just pointing out that the kind of capitalism you're dreaming about doesn't even exist anywhere—except maybe in China, which I guess is basically every capitalist's pipe dream.
Look, regarding those companies mentioned above... I mean, they totally could've been turning a massive profit. Honestly, it’s just like those old-school American industrial giants that went bust because they didn't pivot or specialize when they had the chance. Sure, they wouldn't be these massive behemoths like they used to be, but you know, money would still be moving around and people would actually have jobs. That's way better than just having some group of elites burn everything down for a quick payday. The real issue—and it's the same now as it ever was—is that the people in charge always seem to have this exact same mindset. They have zero vision, zero actual ideas on how to run a business. It's just a bunch of crooks who can ruin something others spent decades building, all just to line their own pockets without breaking a sweat. And shipbuilding? Man, that industry is huge if you play it right. If we hadn't messed up, guys from Scandinavia wouldn't be sticking their noses in our business like that. But like I said, you've gotta specialize. We aren't going to win against the big players in massive ship construction, but maybe, I don't know, we could actually compete in smaller, niche markets.

ironpanther5 said:Why don't we just follow the lead of Ireland, Estonia (like shadowmarlin22 suggested), or even the Czech Republic? 🙂

Phil, nobody is actually suggesting we go out and deregulate the entire banking sector overnight. In our neck of the woods, just having transparent management of funds would be a massive leap forward. We’d start by cleaning out the cronies and all that redundant bloat, then move toward deregulation and cutting through the red tape—you know, so I don't have to worry about whether my hypothetical hair salon needs three specific steps or if the last step has to be exactly 25 to 58 centimeters away from the restroom just to satisfy some bureaucrat.
People are basically screaming for easier ways to run small and medium businesses, lower taxes, and an actual decent climate for investment.
Just look at how much good some of those independent local movements have done in smaller towns; they actually stepped up to stop the usual political vultures from bleeding the budget dry and forced everyone to spend money more rationally.
Honestly, I don't see any reason for county governments to even exist, let alone with this many of them cluttering things up.

Look, those county setups were basically just a brainchild of Franjo Harmon and his inner circle, and honestly? We can only guess why they even did it that way. But listen, you can't just say regulation equals bureaucracy. The US is actually a perfect example of a country drowning in massive amounts of red tape while having zero actual meaningful regulation, which is exactly why things feel so broken sometimes. My uncle’s buddy runs this pretty solid construction firm with about 50 employees, and I guess... maybe... he hasn't even seen an inspector since 2001. Seriously.🤣 I mean, I honestly doubt he’s the only one pulling stuff like this. And don't even get me started on audits or whatever... because if you just slide some cash into their pockets, they won't find a damn thing, whether we're talking about government agencies or big private corporations.
Justin James10 Justin James10 Regular
440 messages
joined Oct 2017
#8923 ·
Honestly, you can't really expect any kind of specialized expertise from these shipyards. Why would they bother? They aren't driven by profit margins; instead, they're fueled by a desire to maintain the status quo using taxpayer money. Does anyone actually care about turning a profit or being efficient? Not at all! It’s a glaring, textbook example of how a state-run corporation can completely fail to deliver.
shadowmarlin22 shadowmarlin22 Active Member
87 messages
joined Mar 2018
#8924 ·
We don't even need to debate local government options—half of them should just be dissolved if they’re pulling 90% of their funding from federal tax dollars anyway. I mean, what is the actual purpose of having all these counties? We have hundreds of tiny municipalities and dozens of counties scattered everywhere; it's nonsensical. We should consolidate everything into larger regions—maybe six or seven major hubs instead of this fragmented mess. Right now, it's nothing but micro-management by the central government where everything grinds to a halt because every little thing has to crawl through a massive federal bureaucracy for six months. By cutting down the number of towns, eliminating the county layer, and creating larger regional authorities with real decision-making power, we could slash red tape and costs. Ultimately, it would make life easier for entrepreneurs through streamlined processes and lower taxes. Lowering the tax burden is the real key to attracting investment and bringing in big corporations.

Sure, you might see unemployment tick up in the short term, but honestly? Long-term, I think it would be a massive win.
Sandra Johnson58 Sandra Johnson58 Active Member
125 messages
joined Apr 2019
#8925 ·
Justin James10 said:Honestly, you can't really expect any kind of specialized expertise from these shipyards. Why would they bother? They aren't driven by profit margins; instead, they're fueled by a desire to maintain the status quo using taxpayer money. Does anyone actually care about turning a profit or being efficient? Not at all! It’s a glaring, textbook example of how a state-run corporation can completely fail to deliver.

I mean, yeah, the ones that actually went private are moving some cash around, which is better than nothing, I guess. Though, I think I saw something about the government still handing out subsidies even after privatization... but honestly, I'm not even sure if that's actually true or if I just misread it.
Sandra Johnson58 Sandra Johnson58 Active Member
125 messages
joined Apr 2019
#8926 ·
shadowmarlin22 said:We don't even need to debate local government options—half of them should just be dissolved if they’re pulling 90% of their funding from federal tax dollars anyway. I mean, what is the actual purpose of having all these counties? We have hundreds of tiny municipalities and dozens of counties scattered everywhere; it's nonsensical. We should consolidate everything into larger regions—maybe six or seven major hubs instead of this fragmented mess. Right now, it's nothing but micro-management by the central government where everything grinds to a halt because every little thing has to crawl through a massive federal bureaucracy for six months. By cutting down the number of towns, eliminating the county layer, and creating larger regional authorities with real decision-making power, we could slash red tape and costs. Ultimately, it would make life easier for entrepreneurs through streamlined processes and lower taxes. Lowering the tax burden is the real key to attracting investment and bringing in big corporations.

Sure, you might see unemployment tick up in the short term, but honestly? Long-term, I think it would be a massive win.

Well, look at a place like the UK—they have thousands of local councils, but they don't all act like independent little kingdoms. They group together into districts and then larger regions. It's not about how many you have, it's about how you organize them.
Morgan Foster Morgan Foster Active Member
59 messages
joined Nov 2012
#8927 ·
Sandra Johnson58 said:Strawman.☕ Just because there's regulation doesn't mean it's automatically communism. I mean, look at those mega capitalists in the West you're always swearing by—the second a crisis hits, they're the first ones running to bail out the banks and the auto industry using money they squeezed out of regular citizens. Like, seriously, if something goes wrong with Volkswagen or even Airbus, France and Germany jump in immediately to protect them, whether it's through under-the-table deals, guarantees, or just heavy political lobbying to make sure those companies land global contracts. When they do that, everyone calls it capitalism and thinks it's cool, right? But the moment we try to save our own shipyards, suddenly it's "terrible" and we get lectured by all these hypocrites from the West. Since we have such spineless people in charge here, they just take those lectures lying down and apologize, instead of showing some backbone and throwing their own interference and corporate favoritism right back in their faces. Now, my opinion that we shouldn't bother saving anything because we should just keep doing things the old way... well, that's a different story and probably our own fault.

I see where you're coming from, but it isn't quite that simple. You've lumped too many different types of companies into one category—companies that exploit the federal budget for very different reasons.
Regarding Boeing or Ford, policy has to account for the fact that the state often holds a stake in these entities. Not to mention the massive socio-political fallout if these giants were to stumble or collapse.

Banks are another hot-button issue. Their insatiable greed triggered the financial crisis, which created the exact kind of fallout our country is dealing with right now. The only flawed part of this argument is suggesting this is a national issue rather than a global one—this sector operates with global investors and sovereign states.
Those governments essentially had no choice but to pull an immediate bailout from the public coffers.
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#8928 ·
Morgan Foster said:I see where you're coming from, but it isn't quite that simple. You've lumped too many different types of companies into one category—companies that exploit the federal budget for very different reasons.
Regarding Boeing or Ford, policy has to account for the fact that the state often holds a stake in these entities. Not to mention the massive socio-political fallout if these giants were to stumble or collapse.

Banks are another hot-button issue. Their insatiable greed triggered the financial crisis, which created the exact kind of fallout our country is dealing with right now. The only flawed part of this argument is suggesting this is a national issue rather than a global one—this sector operates with global investors and sovereign states.
Those governments essentially had no choice but to pull an immediate bailout from the public coffers.

An island?
Paul Sanders5 Paul Sanders5 Regular
571 messages
joined Apr 2019
#8929 ·
The shipyard needs to be shut down for good; it’s basically a money pit.

We should just move everything over to Seattle.🐔
darkseal9 darkseal9 Active Member
171 messages
joined Jan 2017
#8930 ·
ruggedjackal46 said:An island?

Hot girls love the '96 stuff
Paul Sanders5 Paul Sanders5 Regular
571 messages
joined Apr 2019
#8931 ·
Look, if you want to know where things are headed, just keep your eyes on the Baltic states. Seriously, follow their lead and you won't miss a beat.

The Czech Republic is playing in a completely different league than us—they’re more like Northern Italy. Think about how places like London or Paris were basically the wealthiest hubs in the world a few centuries back, right up until they ran into the mess of communism. 😁
Morgan Foster Morgan Foster Active Member
59 messages
joined Nov 2012
#8932 ·
ruggedjackal46 said:An island?

Yes, Iceland. And what happens now? Once again, the ordinary citizens are the ones footing the bill for that massive reset—it’s always the same. You can't just declare bankruptcy and expect everything to vanish... debts have to be settled eventually. It isn't as simple as just throwing up your hands and claiming you're broke to start over from scratch...
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#8933 ·
Morgan Foster said:Yes, Iceland. And what happens now? Once again, the ordinary citizens are the ones footing the bill for that massive reset—it’s always the same. You can't just declare bankruptcy and expect everything to vanish... debts have to be settled eventually. It isn't as simple as just throwing up your hands and claiming you're broke to start over from scratch...

The American people? 😕 Iceland didn't run out to bail out the big banks; instead, the banks collapsed along with their clients—most of whom weren't even locals. But I suppose we're supposed to believe the banks are solely responsible for that mess rather than the government. Right?
Justin James10 Justin James10 Regular
440 messages
joined Oct 2017
#8934 ·
Paul Sanders5 said:Look, if you want to know where things are headed, just keep your eyes on the Baltic states. Seriously, follow their lead and you won't miss a beat.

The Czech Republic is playing in a completely different league than us—they’re more like Northern Italy. Think about how places like London or Paris were basically the wealthiest hubs in the world a few centuries back, right up until they ran into the mess of communism. 😁

Are you actually suggesting that communism is purely corrupting? 😲 That sounds like some pretty extreme, radical rhetoric to me! 😲
Morgan Foster Morgan Foster Active Member
59 messages
joined Nov 2012
#8935 ·
ruggedjackal46 said:The American people? 😕 Iceland didn't run out to bail out the big banks; instead, the banks collapsed along with their clients—most of whom weren't even locals. But I suppose we're supposed to believe the banks are solely responsible for that mess rather than the government. Right?

The devaluation of the Icelandic króna, tax hikes, slashed social spending, public sector pay cuts—all of that meant the citizens who had skin in those banks only saw a fraction of their money returned. The rest just vanished... gone. Foreign investment won't really return until they lift the capital controls.

How exactly did the American people avoid paying for this? They might have recovered, sure—but don't pretend the average guy didn't feel the squeeze...
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#8936 ·
Morgan Foster said:The devaluation of the Icelandic króna, tax hikes, slashed social spending, public sector pay cuts—all of that meant the citizens who had skin in those banks only saw a fraction of their money returned. The rest just vanished... gone. Foreign investment won't really return until they lift the capital controls.

How exactly did the American people avoid paying for this? They might have recovered, sure—but don't pretend the average guy didn't feel the squeeze...

Everyone was predicting total collapse, yet somehow they bounced back pretty well. And honestly, I don't see how things could have gone any better for the public if they had used their own money to bail out failing banks. Wouldn't that have been the ultimate belt-tightening?
Jonathan Barnes5 Jonathan Barnes5 Active Member
191 messages
joined Jul 2018
#8937 ·
ironpanther5 said:Oh, thank you so much for ensuring America didn't burn to the ground or for making sure the blind aren't just left sobbing on the floor. Truly, we owe it all to you.

image

#splitcityprices #americaburns #feelinginvisible #blindandvisuallyimpaired #islandlife #nonprofitsector #civilsociety #goodbyeexpensive #howtobelivewithouthelp #giveusabreak #titonowhereverystudentcomesfrom

Good heavens above,🙏🙏
I really have to hand it to these girls, much like those various flame specialists and welders😁..
It's hard to believe anyone would still claim these people lack intellect or vision, because what we're seeing here is nothing short of brilliant.🤣
loneseal loneseal Active Member
141 messages
joined Mar 2020
#8938 ·
You're just spinning your wheels while the money vanishes into thin air. ☕

Anyway, if you aren't backing IK, you’re basically rooting for violence against women. ☕
Paul Sanders5 Paul Sanders5 Regular
571 messages
joined Apr 2019
#8939 ·
Look, I’ve got my own people to look out for—my mom and my wife. Beyond that? I’m not interested in fighting anyone else's battles. ☕

I mean, if I'm being a little petty, I can't help but notice how many women out there seem to pick partners based on these red flags that scream "potential abuser" to the rest of us. But hey, whatever. It’s not like I’m the one trying to get them into bed, so I'm really not going to lose any sleep over their choices.
darkseal9 darkseal9 Active Member
171 messages
joined Jan 2017
#8940 ·
Man, here in Norval, whenever we read this news about Turkey, I honestly get the feeling you guys are out there working yourselves to death from sunrise to sunset just to get some sleep
The only thing you seem to have free is Sunday morning before church, so you can sit there in peace and listen to the Word, which is honestly pretty respectable

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