Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Spirituality isn't food or water. You don't strictly need to consume it or develop it just to succeed or find happiness in life.

Daily discipline, clear goals, and useful information are the real recipe for success. There are other factors involved, obviously, but those are the ones that come to mind first.
Of course, you still need time for fun and relaxation. To me, that’s all the spirituality I personally require.

The most advanced and successful nations aren't driven by spirituality. They are driven by the traits I mentioned above.

If you want to see spirituality exported or practiced on a massive scale, look at places like Africa or South America to see what that looks like.
What actually needs to be "cultivated" is your mindset.

Spirituality can be a legitimate way to work on your mental state, but people often take it to an extreme—they go overboard, as they say in parts of Florida.

Matthew Young35 said:Incorrect.

Atheists who view spirituality solely as belief in some all-powerful man in the sky—people hunting for physical evidence of His existence or nitpicking why such a being couldn't be perfect—aren't actually that different from those who just want to mock them and prove them wrong. They’re missing the point entirely. Faith has nothing to do with tangible, physical proof. That old man in the clouds, along with concepts like heaven and hell, is just the surface layer of a much deeper, far more complex principle.
Listening to most atheists gives me a massive sense of secondhand embarrassment. It’s honestly cringey how much they miss the actual point of the topics they're discussing, especially when they speak with such unearned conviction and authority.

Ashley Bailey6 said:Spirituality isn't food or water. You don't strictly need to consume it or develop it just to succeed or find happiness in life.

Daily discipline, clear goals, and useful information are the real recipe for success. There are other factors involved, obviously, but those are the ones that come to mind first.
Of course, you still need time for fun and relaxation. To me, that’s all the spirituality I personally require.

The most advanced and successful nations aren't driven by spirituality. They are driven by the traits I mentioned above.

If you want to see spirituality exported or practiced on a massive scale, look at places like Africa or South America to see what that looks like.
What actually needs to be "cultivated" is your mindset.

Spirituality can be a legitimate way to work on your mental state, but people often take it to an extreme—they go overboard, as they say in parts of Florida.

You're a good guy. Honestly, I disagree with you about 90% of the time, but your posts are always an interesting read. There have been moments where I've shared that exact same perspective myself.

I really don't have the energy to get dragged into these pedantic, endless arguments. To me, spirituality isn't some desperate physical craving; it’s just a natural, rational response to the wonders of the world—to its laws, its phenomena, and existence itself. It's the lens through which an individual observes everything around them, yet it's something we all tend to take for granted on a daily basis.

Charles Roberts33 said:Atheists who view spirituality solely as belief in some all-powerful man in the sky—people hunting for physical evidence of His existence or nitpicking why such a being couldn't be perfect—aren't actually that different from those who just want to mock them and prove them wrong. They’re missing the point entirely. Faith has nothing to do with tangible, physical proof. That old man in the clouds, along with concepts like heaven and hell, is just the surface layer of a much deeper, far more complex principle.
Listening to most atheists gives me a massive sense of secondhand embarrassment. It’s honestly cringey how much they miss the actual point of the topics they're discussing, especially when they speak with such unearned conviction and authority.

You're a good guy. Honestly, I disagree with you about 90% of the time, but your posts are always an interesting read. There have been moments where I've shared that exact same perspective myself.

I really don't have the energy to get dragged into these pedantic, endless arguments. To me, spirituality isn't some desperate physical craving; it’s just a natural, rational response to the wonders of the world—to its laws, its phenomena, and existence itself. It's the lens through which an individual observes everything around them, yet it's something we all tend to take for granted on a daily basis.

We don't actually understand any of it. That part is pure speculation.

But we feel this need to define it and label it, which is how religions and other movements start.
People hate admitting there are things they can't grasp. It's just a defense mechanism.

Even though science explains many of these natural laws, we still have no idea what their true essence is.

This reminds me of when a certain colleague of mine used to go on about being a staunch atheist, blah blah.

He got married back in 2015, strictly through the local Municipality.
Then his wife gets pregnant, and suddenly her whole family is "threatening" him, saying the kid has to be baptized because of their traditions and whatnot.
Shortly after that, he gets into a car wreck. He was in a coma for seven weeks before pulling through.
He became totally withdrawn after that, barely talking to anyone except his brother and mother.
Then, out of nowhere, he turns to God 🤣 right as his wife is having twins, named John and Elijah 😁

Now, you can't tear him away from the front pews; he’ll even sit in the third row just to stay close.

Sent from my Samsung J510FN using Reddit

To me, Jesus and the Bible feel more like a user manual. It’s all designed to be accessible, you know? Like, easy for any regular person to actually wrap their head around. It’s basically just a blueprint for how to act—a guide to navigating life. Anyone who doesn't get that, or refuses to accept it while trying to look superior (looking at you, atheists, who either totally miss the point or are just acting smart for the sake of it), is a complete idiot.

Charles Roberts33 said:Atheists who view spirituality solely as belief in some all-powerful man in the sky—people hunting for physical evidence of His existence or nitpicking why such a being couldn't be perfect—aren't actually that different from those who just want to mock them and prove them wrong. They’re missing the point entirely. Faith has nothing to do with tangible, physical proof. That old man in the clouds, along with concepts like heaven and hell, is just the surface layer of a much deeper, far more complex principle.
Listening to most atheists gives me a massive sense of secondhand embarrassment. It’s honestly cringey how much they miss the actual point of the topics they're discussing, especially when they speak with such unearned conviction and authority.

You're a good guy. Honestly, I disagree with you about 90% of the time, but your posts are always an interesting read. There have been moments where I've shared that exact same perspective myself.

I really don't have the energy to get dragged into these pedantic, endless arguments. To me, spirituality isn't some desperate physical craving; it’s just a natural, rational response to the wonders of the world—to its laws, its phenomena, and existence itself. It's the lens through which an individual observes everything around them, yet it's something we all tend to take for granted on a daily basis.

Honestly, even as an atheist myself, I find it pretty awkward too. Since we're talking about a topic that will remain a total mystery until the day we die, there are just way too many people—regardless of what they believe—acting like they personally pulled back the curtain of the universe and caught a glimpse of what's hiding behind it.

I tend to lean much more toward an anti-theist perspective myself.
I think Nietzsche hit the nail on the head in Zoroaster, and if anyone actually wants to dig deeper into that line of reasoning, they should really pick up some Hitchens...

Ashley Bailey6 said:We don't actually understand any of it. That part is pure speculation.

But we feel this need to define it and label it, which is how religions and other movements start.
People hate admitting there are things they can't grasp. It's just a defense mechanism.

Even though science explains many of these natural laws, we still have no idea what their true essence is.

Whatever that essence might be, I doubt it explains those ancient stories from the Middle East involving shepherds, sacrifices, and kings from thousands of years ago. Those Middle Eastern religions seem to revolve entirely around ancient tales that don't really relate to modern life. Personally, I find it hard to sit through an hour of that, even if I have to hear it once a year. It feels like a self-perpetuating cycle that doesn't actually connect to the true meaning of life or the world. It seems more like tribal folklore from a specific place and time that made sense back then. If Jesus actually existed, I imagine he'd be pretty confused watching all this today. The stories suggest he was a rebel and a revolutionary fighting against people with outdated ideas. He'd probably have his hands full dealing with the very religion he started.

Ashley Bailey6 said:We don't actually understand any of it. That part is pure speculation.

But we feel this need to define it and label it, which is how religions and other movements start.
People hate admitting there are things they can't grasp. It's just a defense mechanism.

Even though science explains many of these natural laws, we still have no idea what their true essence is.

The mystification of the world—of everything that makes up our reality, the secrets it holds, human nature, and life itself—doesn't necessarily stem from ignorance or lack of knowledge. It comes from fascination and awe.

Religion, sorcery, spirituality—call it whatever you want. In its negative, organized, expansionist form, it serves as a tool for manipulation and control. But in its positive form? It enriches the human experience.

At the end of the day, I suppose it doesn't really matter whether someone believes in deities or not. Religions essentially offer a collection of narratives that some people embrace, but other social institutions tell their own stories too. As individuals, we all construct our own narratives, which are mostly imaginary, I guess. These stories seem to serve as a way to organize the society we live in and give it some sense of purpose. Sometimes, even made-up authorities can be somewhat useful. I think the most important things are just to live, find some joy, and try to stay around as long as possible. No one can possibly know or understand everything. The whole debate about religion versus science, or believers versus atheists, feels pretty meaningless to me. Most people struggle with complex concepts anyway, so it probably doesn't matter what they believe.

It’s perfectly natural for a person to be more than just a survival machine; we naturally start questioning our own existence and what it all means. And honestly, it’s only human not to rely solely on science for those answers—especially since science itself admits its own limitations. People lean on feelings, intuition, imagination, and storytelling. These things transcend scientific data, even if they actually paved the way for it in the first place. That said, I don't think that's a path toward some universal, objective truth, but rather a way for people to carve out their own personal sense of purpose—which is just as necessary. The real issues arise when people mistake those subjective feelings and flights of fancy for unquestionable truths that everyone else is obligated to swallow. Then there’s the third issue: when people take ancient myths and turn them into rigid rules, like claiming nobody is allowed to kiss before a wedding in a church. Spirituality isn't the problem; it's just that idiots love to weaponize it.

Anyway, when is Muddy Waters finally dropping a new album?

ruggedjackal46 said:Honestly, even as an atheist myself, I find it pretty awkward too. Since we're talking about a topic that will remain a total mystery until the day we die, there are just way too many people—regardless of what they believe—acting like they personally pulled back the curtain of the universe and caught a glimpse of what's hiding behind it.

To me, it isn't much of a mystery; I can usually guess how a movie ends with reasonable certainty. In essence, I agree with the core argument made by atheists, even if I don't care for their delivery—honestly, they can be quite tedious themselves.

I tend to view spirituality as nothing more than a somewhat poetic way of looking at the process of living.

ruggedjackal46 said:It’s perfectly natural for a person to be more than just a survival machine; we naturally start questioning our own existence and what it all means. And honestly, it’s only human not to rely solely on science for those answers—especially since science itself admits its own limitations. People lean on feelings, intuition, imagination, and storytelling. These things transcend scientific data, even if they actually paved the way for it in the first place. That said, I don't think that's a path toward some universal, objective truth, but rather a way for people to carve out their own personal sense of purpose—which is just as necessary. The real issues arise when people mistake those subjective feelings and flights of fancy for unquestionable truths that everyone else is obligated to swallow. Then there’s the third issue: when people take ancient myths and turn them into rigid rules, like claiming nobody is allowed to kiss before a wedding in a church. Spirituality isn't the problem; it's just that idiots love to weaponize it.

Anyway, when is Muddy Waters finally dropping a new album?

🤣

I'm also eager ☕

Strictly from a conceptual standpoint, I guess there isn't much of a difference between Middle Eastern religions and science. Both essentially position humanity as the master of the rest of the world. They both claim to hold ultimate legitimacy. Religions suggest our role as rulers was granted by some deity, whereas science sort of bypasses that part and argues we have this inherent intellectual right to manipulate nature.

Wait, are you actually talking about that church that used to send kids off to war?

Just making sure we’re starting from the same page here.

I mean, come on, we seem to be conveniently forgetting about the Crusades, those hundred-year wars, and the whole Inquisition mess.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy A30s using Reddit

Exactly. It’s pretty obvious that a handful of clever manipulators realized religion is basically just fairy tales for kids. They saw how most people are actually pretty unstable and, frankly, kind of clueless, so they jumped on the chance to weaponize faith for their own gain. It’s all about grabbing power and control. By constantly feeding people fear, they managed to keep the uneducated masses under their thumb—honestly, it looks a lot like what you see happening in parts of the Middle East today.

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Reddit

Yeah, look, it was a hell of a bumpy ride. There was so much damn pushback because people just didn't get what we were actually trying to do right out of the gate. Sometimes you've gotta stir up a little chaos to make way for a whole lot more good ☕

You're just trolling 🤣

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy A30s using Reddit

Patrick Martin said:Yeah, look, it was a hell of a bumpy ride. There was so much damn pushback because people just didn't get what we were actually trying to do right out of the gate. Sometimes you've gotta stir up a little chaos to make way for a whole lot more good ☕

So, can we say Islam is currently walking that same difficult path?

Anthony Jackson2 said:So, can we say Islam is currently walking that same difficult path?

It’s not even about Islam, man. It's US. We’re going through the exact same cycle, just in reverse. We hit the breaking point and now we're retreating, while they're coming up behind us, riding this massive renaissance wave and seizing the moment.
It’s like we’re circling back to square one all over again. Everything is getting messy, and these new, crazy challenges we haven't even dreamed of yet are starting to pile up. And the Church? It’s weak this time around—we pretty much tore it apart from the inside. It’s gonna be a wild ride, believe me.