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Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Started by Morgan Williams · · 👁 1.4K views · 18K replies

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Participants Morgan WilliamsRachel Cooper3Joseph Clark37Keith Patel81darkseal9neonfalcon16urbanhawk17Amanda Evans2bluebison47brightpilot6Patrick MartinJoseph Fisher3steelharbor9Robin Fox2Maria AndersonAnthony Jackson2Jason Newmanruggedjackal46Michelle Palmer6Jeffrey Edwards76Jason Campbell70Anthony Barrett37graniteangler31Dennis Evans6 …
brightpilot6 brightpilot6 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined Oct 2012
#11481 ·
They didn't exactly "conquer" me in that debate, nor do I view the Social Democratic Party as anything resembling a coherent modern leftist movement. That is precisely why I used the word "attempt." It will likely take another three or five iterations before we see a legitimate leftist platform actually take shape.

There is really no need to foam at the mouth or go after straw men ☕
Peter Thompson4 Peter Thompson4 Regular
391 messages
joined Apr 2014
#11482 ·
I was just being general, if you felt personally "attacked" or whatever :P
brightpilot6 brightpilot6 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined Oct 2012
#11483 ·
No, it’s just going to be a disaster.
darkseal9 darkseal9 Active Member
171 messages
joined Jan 2017
#11484 ·
When this total loser (honestly, she gives off major frustrated lesbian vibes) went after that rotten Skoro—who’s basically just a thief and a crook
I'm expecting her to start singing
It's just my opinion
Just my take, honey
ironpanther5 ironpanther5 Active Member
235 messages
joined Mar 2019
#11485 ·
brightpilot6 said:What’s the actual issue here—is it the ideas themselves, or just the way they manifest?

I honestly welcome any attempt to build a coherent economic left wing—not because I expect anyone to actually win an election, since that isn't happening (nor should it), but simply so these perspectives can exist in the public square. We need a counterweight to the hyper-right-wing economic theories that are currently trendy and sound so appealing, especially to younger generations who feel like social solidarity is nothing more than a drain on their wallets (particularly given the disastrous state of our country lately).

Of course, I am talking about a left wing that is actually adapted to today's reality, rather than one stuck in the 19th or 20th centuries. We need advocacy for genuine equal opportunity (rather than equal outcomes), limits on corporatocracy, environmental protection, and a critique of the losers created by globalization. Someone needs to keep in mind the people who won't have advanced degrees, those who won't be able to swap employers like socks through freelance gigs, those unable to work for some firm in Hong Kong from the comfort of their living rooms, and those who lack either the skill or the drive to run their own businesses. These people are the backbone of society, and their future looks incredibly bleak in this unstable world we are heading toward.

That role should really belong to the Social Democratic Party, or maybe it could have been someone like Walnut; I mean, RF are basically old-school communists, no matter how much people hate hearing that term nowadays.

They totally ripped off this whole "democratic socialism" gimmick from the US—specifically from AOC. It's just like how February tried to pull that nonsense about "heterosexual white males" and ended up looking completely ridiculous during prime time.

Here is their version of an economic platform, if you want to call it that, just a milder take:

And before anyone brings it up, cooperatives are still perfectly legal today; nobody is stopping them from organizing into one (they'd just actually have to, you know, *do* something)😁 .

Zoki absolutely dismantled her alongside Franjo Harmon. A total slap in the face. 🙂
Morgan Foster Morgan Foster Active Member
59 messages
joined Nov 2012
#11486 ·
brightpilot6 said:What’s the actual issue here—is it the ideas themselves, or just the way they manifest?

I honestly welcome any attempt to build a coherent economic left wing—not because I expect anyone to actually win an election, since that isn't happening (nor should it), but simply so these perspectives can exist in the public square. We need a counterweight to the hyper-right-wing economic theories that are currently trendy and sound so appealing, especially to younger generations who feel like social solidarity is nothing more than a drain on their wallets (particularly given the disastrous state of our country lately).

Of course, I am talking about a left wing that is actually adapted to today's reality, rather than one stuck in the 19th or 20th centuries. We need advocacy for genuine equal opportunity (rather than equal outcomes), limits on corporatocracy, environmental protection, and a critique of the losers created by globalization. Someone needs to keep in mind the people who won't have advanced degrees, those who won't be able to swap employers like socks through freelance gigs, those unable to work for some firm in Hong Kong from the comfort of their living rooms, and those who lack either the skill or the drive to run their own businesses. These people are the backbone of society, and their future looks incredibly bleak in this unstable world we are heading toward.

So, basically, you're supporting the government taking out massive loans to hand out to everyone. Then they'd just pay those loans back by inventing new taxes or something. Sounds familiar...

We need to assemble actual nerd experts for new economic reform initiatives based on technical merit, rather than ideological or subservient criteria. There’s probably a reason why America doesn't have much to offer the world besides sunshine (I was going to say tourism, but I'll pass) and decent human capital that ends up funding the federal budget.

The political stage isn't honest; it just hands out treats to different factions. Everyone acts like they're fighting for their side, without realizing they paid for those treats out of their own pockets.

It seems you're missing one major looming social crisis in the US. What happens when the population keeps aging? Pensions, elder care, nursing homes? We don't need ideologies; we need practical solutions that actually improve daily life. The government should function as a service to its citizens, not as a blunt instrument from the dark ages.
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#11487 ·
Morgan Foster said:So, basically, you're supporting the government taking out massive loans to hand out to everyone. Then they'd just pay those loans back by inventing new taxes or something. Sounds familiar...

We need to assemble actual nerd experts for new economic reform initiatives based on technical merit, rather than ideological or subservient criteria. There’s probably a reason why America doesn't have much to offer the world besides sunshine (I was going to say tourism, but I'll pass) and decent human capital that ends up funding the federal budget.

The political stage isn't honest; it just hands out treats to different factions. Everyone acts like they're fighting for their side, without realizing they paid for those treats out of their own pockets.

It seems you're missing one major looming social crisis in the US. What happens when the population keeps aging? Pensions, elder care, nursing homes? We don't need ideologies; we need practical solutions that actually improve daily life. The government should function as a service to its citizens, not as a blunt instrument from the dark ages.

Let’s be real: there’s no such thing as an expert without some kind of ideological foundation—I mean, ideology is just having clear stances on what the economy and the government should actually look like. Left-leaning economists generally believe the state should play a stronger role with more public protections for citizens, whereas the right thinks the government should stay out of the way and leave people to fend for themselves. One group calls their people "experts," while the other does the exact same thing for their own side. So, we can't just pull a bunch of "objective" experts out of thin air, sit them down on a couch, and expect them to fix everything like they’re some kind of political plumbers. At the end of the day, people still have to choose which vision for the country they actually want to live under.
Paul Martinez73 Paul Martinez73 Regular
356 messages
joined Aug 2018
#11488 ·
bluebison47 said:I mean, anyone under 75 was actually born during the era of antifascism.😳

To be against something, that thing actually has to exist. For example, if you want to claim you're an Antifascist, you need Fascists to actually be around... But those guys were marching through here back in '45, yet here we are in 2020, still debating who qualifies as an Antifascist. It’s like this crowd has such an intense need to broadcast it—as if they're saying, "Look, we're modern, let's focus on the future, but hey, don't forget we're Antifascists."

I call myself AntiTahyevac, mostly because some distant relative of mine supposedly stood right next to Matija Gubec during the Peasant Revolt while they were fighting Franjo Tahy. You can imagine how incredibly stupid it feels to rub that in the faces of people who weren't even born when any of this went down...
Amanda Evans2 Amanda Evans2 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Nov 2014
#11489 ·
What on earth happened to the doctor of practice candidacy
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#11490 ·
Amanda Evans2 said:What on earth happened to the doctor of practice candidacy

Morgan Foster Morgan Foster Active Member
59 messages
joined Nov 2012
#11491 ·
ruggedjackal46 said:Let’s be real: there’s no such thing as an expert without some kind of ideological foundation—I mean, ideology is just having clear stances on what the economy and the government should actually look like. Left-leaning economists generally believe the state should play a stronger role with more public protections for citizens, whereas the right thinks the government should stay out of the way and leave people to fend for themselves. One group calls their people "experts," while the other does the exact same thing for their own side. So, we can't just pull a bunch of "objective" experts out of thin air, sit them down on a couch, and expect them to fix everything like they’re some kind of political plumbers. At the end of the day, people still have to choose which vision for the country they actually want to live under.


Not too long ago, the Cold War came to an end. One side produced goods based purely on ideology—mass-producing items that ultimately nobody wanted to buy. The other side sat down, did the math, listened to the market, and adjusted their production accordingly... making money and stabilizing their nation in the process. They led their country based on facts rather than being enslaved by ideological dogmas. They didn't close themselves off.

Without earned money, there is nothing; it’s a necessary evil. The biggest drain on funds is the welfare state, because humans, by nature, always expect something in return for any service provided.

A new path is being forged. An objective professional says three months and at least eight cents worth of asphalt. A politician knows better and says "lay three," opening a "new" road ahead of schedule right before an election. You’ll likely pay for the professional solution once... but how many times will you pay for that second option, the one where they just wave an ideological flag?

I'm pulling the brakes here. I don't want politics in my shop. 😁
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#11492 ·
Morgan Foster said:Not too long ago, the Cold War came to an end. One side produced goods based purely on ideology—mass-producing items that ultimately nobody wanted to buy. The other side sat down, did the math, listened to the market, and adjusted their production accordingly... making money and stabilizing their nation in the process. They led their country based on facts rather than being enslaved by ideological dogmas. They didn't close themselves off.

Without earned money, there is nothing; it’s a necessary evil. The biggest drain on funds is the welfare state, because humans, by nature, always expect something in return for any service provided.

A new path is being forged. An objective professional says three months and at least eight cents worth of asphalt. A politician knows better and says "lay three," opening a "new" road ahead of schedule right before an election. You’ll likely pay for the professional solution once... but how many times will you pay for that second option, the one where they just wave an ideological flag?

I'm pulling the brakes here. I don't want politics in my shop. 😁

Even more recently, we saw that massive global economic crisis where the bubble burst, leaving a huge number of people without any savings or even basic living conditions. It turned out that this supposedly "rational" way of running an economy isn't nearly as rational or fair as people claim, and the economy itself is far less predictable than the experts suggest. As things stand right now, ten years after that crash, there's a much higher chance we'll see another similar crisis pop up than there is of the system actually returning to a state of balance.

Look, earned money matters, but if there isn't a plan for how to distribute that wealth to the population, then what's the point? If the money is handed out on the principle of "the top 1% gets everything while the other 99% fights for scraps," then we're headed for trouble.
Walter Grant5 Walter Grant5 Regular
459 messages
joined Oct 2012
#11493 ·
Dario Jučan said:A LOVE LETTER TO NEW YORK MAYOR MILAN BANDIC
I’ve known you for a long time now, Mayor. I’ve been watching your "calculated" moves and little schemes for years. We first crossed paths back when you were sweating it out at the New York County Court.
Forgive me, but I’m going to stick with "you" instead of the formal stuff. It feels more honest.
I know where you come from—those small towns outside the city where you used to kick a soccer ball around. Later on, you used those spots to hide your vintage cars in garages you conveniently outfitted with dual cameras, keeping those pricey rides tucked away from the Canadian security agency, SIPA.
You’re a smart one, a crafty fox, Mr. Mayor. But your henchmen aren't always the brightest bulbs. They forgot to wipe the tire tracks, so now the whole town is laughing at you.
After a decent childhood, you made it to the big city. And let’s be real, NYC isn't just the capital of the US; it’s the playground for every criminal in the country. You figured that out pretty fast.
My favorite part of the whole saga happened back in 2000. You managed to crash the City Council by basically bullying two Republican councilmen into resigning, then convincing the entire opposition to jump on board just so you could rush to the press with the news. It was a Thursday afternoon. You were clearly bad at math back then, though—you forgot you didn't have the signature of Vesna Vešligaj, who actually left the Social Democratic Party because of you. And who did you send to talk her down that Thursday night? Your most loyal, most shady, most silent fixer—Slobodan Ljubičić Kikaš. The rest is history. You became Mayor. You immediately bought a Land Rover and slapped your initials and birthday on the plates. Nobody would have even known if you weren't such a narcissistic jerk who crashed the car and tried to outrun the cops. And you got off scot-free, too. Kikaš even claimed you spent the whole day just messing around with a bottle of mineral water. He’s your lapdog, obviously, much like Jelen Pavičić Vukičević, who once called it a “ridiculous thought” that a Mayor would flee the scene of an accident. I bet you bought her a nice pair of shoes for her travels. Good investment, boss!
Once you took the reins, you poured billions into real estate owned by local developers, industrial sites, and warehouses. Now they're just run-down storage units, and you're the king of them. You talked about building a Manhattan, but in fifteen years, you haven't moved an inch past those warehouses.
You also jumped into the whole "New York Housing Model" thing. We both know that phrase was cooked up just for your PR; there’s no such thing in the official documents. But hey, perception is everything, right? You’re quite the visionary.
All your grand visions and your little crew are being picked apart in courtrooms right now in cases involving: Agram, Bundekfest, Sanitation, Krašograd / Grokomp, GUP, Shelters, Dirty Cops, Cleaners, Robert Ljutić, Electricity, Stalls, Kindergartens... Even though witnesses seem to develop sudden amnesia the second they get near the courthouse, things aren't looking good for any of you.
In the Shelter case, your buddies actually forged documents for all 350 shelters, but they were stupid enough to leave the originals at the outside firm's design office. You keep picking people with half a brain, and it keeps blowing up in your face.
The number of your shady associates facing court has topped fifty. You’ve built yourself a massive network of people with short memories and even shorter wits.
It’s not the drunken fleeing from the police or the way you forced your way out of the car that I’ll remember. It’s not how you legalized those luxury estates for some billionaire under the guise of "embassy needs," or how you stepped on the toes of local politicians...
No, I’ll remember you for this: right before you were hauled away in 2014, you called home to your place in Bužanova and whined that the labels had been cut off your Fendi and Hermes furniture. We're talking ultra-expensive, exclusive brands where a single sofa can start at...$67, and that’s not even counting shipping and taxes. That furniture is custom-ordered from Italy. You can't find stuff like that here in America, because we don't have a client base as loaded as yours. All those big-shot entrepreneurs, doctors, lawyers, Wall Street sharks in the city... they all look like paupers compared to your net worth, Mr. Mayor.
Label-slasher—what are you so ashamed of? A man of the people, a guy for the people, hiding exclusive designer furniture at home. You’ve got every right; you earned it. All those self-righteous types hanging out with the Church, local associations, and those shady businessmen... they’re all just background noise. But how did you pay for it, oh Great Institution of the Mayor's Office? I bet your buddy Drago sent you some "gifts" just so you could make it till payday... Sorry, I forgot, I’m just a petty criminal here.
But even that wasn't enough for you. Through some complex scheme involving a buddy from back home—your old pal Mate Brzica—three apartments were bought. According to Supreme Court Ruling No: I Kž-Us 144/14-4, "the purchase of these properties significantly exceeds the legal income of Mate and Silvana Brzica, and the evidence gathered so far points to the appellant (yeah, that’s you, Mr. Mayor!) as the one actually using and controlling these apartments."
You didn't even blink at paying architect Anto Vrban to renovate one of those three units—the one on Gračanska Street in the city—specifically to suit the tastes of your "close friend." It really cracked me up watching you shamelessly dispute court rulings over and over again.
And honestly, good for you! In a country where I’m the only one brave enough to call myself a criminal, you and your crowd are the only ones who can claim innocence.
Listen, Label-slasher, your cronies try to act like you, and then they get sloppy. Like your driver Zdravko Appalachia, who carelessly drove down to the coast for the opening of Denis Mohenski's villa—the king of the city's Christmas season—only for Appalachia to be seen pouring beers for that same Mohenski at a summer festival in the park.
You’re a smart one, playing it safe, Mr. Mayor. But the people around you crave the high life too; they want to flaunt it. Just who are these "Kings of Christmas" supposed to be anyway?
I’m kneading you like dough and turning you into noodles. I'm cooking you up and serving you to the public so everyone sees what a small-time crook you really are, you little label-slasher...
Talking to you is toxic, and I want all your buddies to know it. From now on, I’ll always be right here, lurking like a shadow for you and them.
Your story is over. You’re my mission now. You’re my new local tycoon target...
Label-slasher, it's almost over.
There’s no room for someone like us in this city!
Dario Jučan

mwuahahahaha
Morgan Foster Morgan Foster Active Member
59 messages
joined Nov 2012
#11494 ·
ruggedjackal46 said:Even more recently, we saw that massive global economic crisis where the bubble burst, leaving a huge number of people without any savings or even basic living conditions. It turned out that this supposedly "rational" way of running an economy isn't nearly as rational or fair as people claim, and the economy itself is far less predictable than the experts suggest. As things stand right now, ten years after that crash, there's a much higher chance we'll see another similar crisis pop up than there is of the system actually returning to a state of balance.

Look, earned money matters, but if there isn't a plan for how to distribute that wealth to the population, then what's the point? If the money is handed out on the principle of "the top 1% gets everything while the other 99% fights for scraps," then we're headed for trouble.

Back in the States, they had those NINA programs—No Income, No Asset. Basically: okay, just buy a house!
That was really the tipping point, and the fallout was felt everywhere across the globe.
I think that's what inspired the movie
Short.
After that, many European Union nations tightened up their credit rating criteria significantly. They sat down at the table to find actual solutions. In some countries, these things might have already been regulated, but they used the crisis to optimize them further.

The crisis you're talking about has already begun... nobody can say for certain how long it will last or how deep it will go, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a total apocalypse with the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Every major power, in its own way, is currently trying to carve out its position in this new economy. This isn't happening by accident—it means jobs will inevitably disappear somewhere unless the necessary reforms are implemented to keep pace with new trends.

Protecting the vulnerable or the sick? Absolutely, that's a given. But look—a worker puts a computer in his garage and suddenly he's part of the elite. That 1% elite will eventually call you to the barricades. On the flip side, the fact that their money circulates because they spend it, fund foundations, and create jobs is a different story entirely. Life isn't black and white... we need to aim for dialogue.
bluebison47 bluebison47 Regular
469 messages
joined Jul 2012
#11495 ·
Editor-in-Chief of Sports Millionaire🙏
hiddencyclist112 hiddencyclist112 Active Member
54 messages
joined Apr 2023
#11496 ·
A perfect visual representation of what used to be a respected newspaper. What an absolute snake...
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#11497 ·
Morgan Foster said:Back in the States, they had those NINA programs—No Income, No Asset. Basically: okay, just buy a house!
That was really the tipping point, and the fallout was felt everywhere across the globe.
I think that's what inspired the movie
Short.
After that, many European Union nations tightened up their credit rating criteria significantly. They sat down at the table to find actual solutions. In some countries, these things might have already been regulated, but they used the crisis to optimize them further.

The crisis you're talking about has already begun... nobody can say for certain how long it will last or how deep it will go, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a total apocalypse with the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Every major power, in its own way, is currently trying to carve out its position in this new economy. This isn't happening by accident—it means jobs will inevitably disappear somewhere unless the necessary reforms are implemented to keep pace with new trends.

Protecting the vulnerable or the sick? Absolutely, that's a given. But look—a worker puts a computer in his garage and suddenly he's part of the elite. That 1% elite will eventually call you to the barricades. On the flip side, the fact that their money circulates because they spend it, fund foundations, and create jobs is a different story entirely. Life isn't black and white... we need to aim for dialogue.

The Big Short

After that, a lot of countries within the European Union decided to tighten up their credit rating criteria. They actually sat down at the table to hammer out some real solutions. It’s possible that some of those nations had already regulated this stuff ages ago and were just fine-tuning the system later on.

From what I can see around here, people who were absolutely crushed by their loans actually had to band together, form an association, and sue the banks just to prevent them from bearing the full brunt of the crisis on their own. And only now are those rulings finally coming back in their favor. It wasn’t a seat at the negotiating table that saved them; it was the courtroom. But looking at how these banks are operating lately? I don't see much evidence that anything significant has actually changed for the better.
Morgan Foster Morgan Foster Active Member
59 messages
joined Nov 2012
#11498 ·
Yeah, that's the movie 👍

If nothing had been regulated or optimized along the way, that association would never have received the green light from the European Union court. Things actually got moving at the EU level—but if I take this one example as a lesson, it’s clear that the American civil service isn't doing its job, especially when it comes to helping its own citizens.

Those debtors were lucky in the end that those types of loans were so non-transparent... there was massive room for manipulation. Banks weren't handing over all the necessary info regarding potential risks and, let's be honest, the people taking out loans in foreign currencies thought they were making a big deal out of it.
A true American tragedy—complete with a facepalm: exchange rates, anyone? 😁
darkseal9 darkseal9 Active Member
171 messages
joined Jan 2017
#11499 ·
ruggedjackal46 said:The Big Short

After that, a lot of countries within the European Union decided to tighten up their credit rating criteria. They actually sat down at the table to hammer out some real solutions. It’s possible that some of those nations had already regulated this stuff ages ago and were just fine-tuning the system later on.

From what I can see around here, people who were absolutely crushed by their loans actually had to band together, form an association, and sue the banks just to prevent them from bearing the full brunt of the crisis on their own. And only now are those rulings finally coming back in their favor. It wasn’t a seat at the negotiating table that saved them; it was the courtroom. But looking at how these banks are operating lately? I don't see much evidence that anything significant has actually changed for the better.

Regulations have tightened up big time. Back in the day, I could grab a house at 18 years old—just a regular standalone place in the Toronto suburbs for $200k. I got approved for a $170k loan just by showing a letter from my employer stating how long I’d been there and what I was pulling in.

Now? That exact same house is $700k, and they’ll only approve you for $450k. Plus, you have to drag a mountain of paperwork from the IRS, your company, credit bureaus... some places even ask for medical records!
A young couple today basically has to drown in debt just to get a tiny slice of the pie.
Paul Sanders5 Paul Sanders5 Regular
571 messages
joined Apr 2019
#11500 ·
So you spend your entire life doing absolutely nothing and suddenly you're loaded? Makes perfect sense, I guess. Total logic right there.

Honestly, just line those kinds of courts up against a wall and let 'em have it. Might as well outsource the whole judicial system to somewhere like Zimbabwe—can't possibly get any worse than this mess.

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