Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Elizabeth Mendoza said:Well, yeah... a massive pile of atheists (and plenty of others) celebrate Christmas. What’s weird about that? We don't look at it through the lens of faith because Christmas is anything but a religious holiday.

As an atheist, I see Christmas as a holiday for eating great food and pizza, a time to hang out with friends and family, a time when I listen to..

...I hang red hats and fairy lights on the walls, treat myself and my neighbors to some nice gifts, and drop a ton of cash. It's pure commercialism, man.

For us atheists, Christmas is just a day off work. It's a commercial holiday just like Halloween. We don't give a damn—we don't work, we stay home with the family, and then we head out at night to grab drinks with the crew and mess around.

Edit: Honestly, what's better is that a huge bunch of you Catholics do the exact same thing. Instead of Jesus under the tree, there's a chocolate Santa Claus. Instead of religious hymns coming from the speakers, it's just loud music while people knock back their seventeenth beer and talk about patriotism at the table while the cleaners wash the plates that the whole Catholic crowd just smeared with lunch.

May God grant you some wisdom today. Peace be with you.

And comparing Halloween to Christmas... let's just let this day pass in peace instead of getting bogged down in forum bickering. Merry Christmas to everyone.

I honestly think celebrating anything when you don't even believe in it is just totally pointless.

Merry Christmas to everyone, whether you're believers or not—hope it brings some peace and quiet to you and your families😍

I honestly can't wrap my head around how 90% of those who claim to "believe" actually have a clue what they're supposed to be following as Catholics. It’s as if they couldn't care less about the substance of it all.

Paul Martinez73 said:Matthew Young35, do you celebrate Christmas? Got a nice Christmas tree at home? A nativity scene? Heading out for Advent?
It’s actually fascinating how many "Atheists" and "I'm not Catholic" types still celebrate Christmas. So, I have to wonder... are you and Zinedine Zidane part of that little club?

From what I know—decorating a fir tree is just a pagan custom with zero connection to Christianity—so I have no idea why you'd bring it up here. 🤷

Paul Martinez73 said:May God grant you some wisdom today. Peace be with you.

And comparing Halloween to Christmas... let's just let this day pass in peace instead of getting bogged down in forum bickering. Merry Christmas to everyone.

What’s wrong with the comparison? They're both just commercial capitalist holidays where everything revolves around blowing money and stuffing your face with food and booze. It's the exact same thing, just with different decor. Instead of pumpkins and skeletons, you get fairy lights and a fir tree.

I’m not particularly fond of the Christian underpinnings behind all these Christmas traditions—being a logical, rational, enlightened atheist who relies on reason—but I just can't resist the gifts, the shopping, the credit card splurging, sipping mulled wine, and setting off fireworks. I suppose I have to find some sort of middle ground between these two worlds so I can keep indulging like an unrestrained child during this holiday season.🙂

Pure consistency, really. Just in terms of stupidity, hypocrisy, and being a total jerk.☕

Anthony Jackson2 said:From what I know—decorating a fir tree is just a pagan custom with zero connection to Christianity—so I have no idea why you'd bring it up here. 🤷

Man, screw Irud! If being a heathen means being one, then fine, call me a pagan

It's totally clear—everything is shining bright for the holidays, brother! 🤦

Anthony Jackson2 said:From what I know—decorating a fir tree is just a pagan custom with zero connection to Christianity—so I have no idea why you'd bring it up here. 🤷

You clearly don't know enough...☕
Decorating a fir tree is deeply tied to Christianity; there’s just some speculation regarding the exact origins and how the tradition of decorating a fir tree for Christmas started. But if you look into it, you can trace it back to very early times, most often originating in Germany, where the connection is exclusively Christian—those are the strongest theories out there.

Do you decorate a fir tree on other days too? Why don't you celebrate by decorating a tree and getting drunk and overeating on other holidays or special occasions?

Here's a little bit of free education for you...
https://www.whychristmas.com/customs/trees.shtml

Also, giving gifts at Christmas is exclusively and solely linked to Christianity and how the Three Kings gave gifts to Jesus Christ.

So, my dear Redditors, whether you want to admit it or not, today you've found a piece of Faith and the Catholic Church within yourselves; you're participating in it, and through that, you've realized that Jesus was born today. With your joy, songs, drinking, and eating, you are celebrating His birthday.

That's my boy Anthony Jackson2, acting like you're raising your hand to say you aren't a Nazi, but that the Nazis just took it from the Romans... while basically admitting you're an idiot in the process.

Paul Martinez73 said:You clearly don't know enough...☕
Decorating a fir tree is deeply tied to Christianity; there’s just some speculation regarding the exact origins and how the tradition of decorating a fir tree for Christmas started. But if you look into it, you can trace it back to very early times, most often originating in Germany, where the connection is exclusively Christian—those are the strongest theories out there.

Do you decorate a fir tree on other days too? Why don't you celebrate by decorating a tree and getting drunk and overeating on other holidays or special occasions?

Here's a little bit of free education for you...
https://www.whychristmas.com/customs/trees.shtml

Also, giving gifts at Christmas is exclusively and solely linked to Christianity and how the Three Kings gave gifts to Jesus Christ.

So, my dear Redditors, whether you want to admit it or not, today you've found a piece of Faith and the Catholic Church within yourselves; you're participating in it, and through that, you've realized that Jesus was born today. With your joy, songs, drinking, and eating, you are celebrating His birthday.

That's my boy Anthony Jackson2, acting like you're raising your hand to say you aren't a Nazi, but that the Nazis just took it from the Romans... while basically admitting you're an idiot in the process.

Yes, you are absolutely right.
Back in America, Carols were celebrated on November 29th, and people were essentially celebrating America, discovering a deep sense of American identity within themselves.

At the same time, people celebrate May Day.
Which means we have a situation where people are simultaneously communists and believers.

Do you work on May Day? Do you go on an outing with your family?
What does that say about you?

Matthew Young35 said:Yes, you are absolutely right.
Back in America, Carols were celebrated on November 29th, and people were essentially celebrating America, discovering a deep sense of American identity within themselves.

At the same time, people celebrate May Day.
Which means we have a situation where people are simultaneously communists and believers.

Do you work on May Day? Do you go on an outing with your family?
What does that say about you?

Are you aware that May 1st is an international Labor Day? It’s not some kind of Yugo-nostalgic holiday... what on earth does that have to do with Christmas? 🤣
Those leftists and their obsession with international Labor Day... 🤣

You've proven more than a few times now that you haven't the slightest clue what you're actually talking about, so I'm done wasting my breath on these debates with you... Goodbye.

Paul Martinez73 said:Are you aware that May 1st is an international Labor Day? It’s not some kind of Yugo-nostalgic holiday... what on earth does that have to do with Christmas? 🤣
Those leftists and their obsession with international Labor Day... 🤣

You've proven more than a few times now that you haven't the slightest clue what you're actually talking about, so I'm done wasting my breath on these debates with you... Goodbye.

Regarding America, I was referring to November 29th, which used to be Republic Day.

Matthew Young35 said:Regarding America, I was referring to November 29th, which used to be Republic Day.

Just try to dig your way out now. You basically wrote, "Should I go on a trip while my family stays home on a budget of $1.50?" and wondered what that says about you. Just admit you looked foolish and leave it at that. Don't keep digging a deeper hole...
And apparently, people can be both staunch communists and devout believers since they celebrate May Day too.

Paul Martinez73 said:Just try to dig your way out now. You basically wrote, "Should I go on a trip while my family stays home on a budget of $1.50?" and wondered what that says about you. Just admit you looked foolish and leave it at that. Don't keep digging a deeper hole...
And apparently, people can be both staunch communists and devout believers since they celebrate May Day too.

I already posted my thoughts regarding America back on November 29th.

As for this second point, I was calling you a communist. Regarding the 1.5 thing, I didn't even bring up America.

Focus. Read what I actually wrote.
I realize it’s difficult and that reading all these letters is probably an overwhelming chore, but at least try.

Matthew Young35 said:I already posted my thoughts regarding America back on November 29th.

As for this second point, I was calling you a communist. Regarding the 1.5 thing, I didn't even bring up America.

Focus. Read what I actually wrote.
I realize it’s difficult and that reading all these letters is probably an overwhelming chore, but at least try.

Thanks and goodbye

I have to admit, I’m struggling to grasp the specific point that Charles Roberts33 and Paul Martinez73 are attempting to drive home in this discussion. Are they suggesting that anyone who participates in rituals tied to Christianity out of sheer force of tradition—despite not actually believing in all the religious mumbo-jumbo required of a Catholic—is somehow a hypocrite? If that is the case, what exactly is the logic behind why such a person shouldn't participate? Or am I missing something else entirely?

And if the answer is yes, does the same logic apply to believers: would it be considered hypocritical for them to utilize or engage with institutions whose very essence stands in direct opposition to church doctrine?

brightpilot6 said:I have to admit, I’m struggling to grasp the specific point that Charles Roberts33 and Paul Martinez73 are attempting to drive home in this discussion. Are they suggesting that anyone who participates in rituals tied to Christianity out of sheer force of tradition—despite not actually believing in all the religious mumbo-jumbo required of a Catholic—is somehow a hypocrite? If that is the case, what exactly is the logic behind why such a person shouldn't participate? Or am I missing something else entirely?

And if the answer is yes, does the same logic apply to believers: would it be considered hypocritical for them to utilize or engage with institutions whose very essence stands in direct opposition to church doctrine?

Thank God. If you’re going to stand for something, you do it all the way—not halfway, not a third of the way, and certainly not whenever it happens to suit your mood.
I'm not a believer. I don't hang lights, I don't sing Christmas carols, and frankly, I don't mind the people who do. I tend to avoid the crowds, too. But I find it pretty hilarious when people spend the entire year calling believers hypocrites—mocking how they interpret their faith just to suit themselves—only to turn around during the holidays and embrace every single one of those traditions. They cherry-pick exactly what they want from the customs: mostly the superficial stuff, the glitter, the kitsch, and the noise. It seems they find some sort of comfort or solace in that shallow spectacle.

It’s all or nothing. There is no middle ground. ☕

A huge portion of Christian traditions has simply bled into folk customs over the centuries. It works both ways, really; just as certain "pagan" rituals were absorbed into Christianity. I haven't noticed anyone calling out Christians for hypocrisy regarding these, shall we say, peculiar customs.

All this modern revelry and the frantic scrambling around Christmas has very little to do with actual faith. Instead, it’s mostly driven by mass laziness and scheduled time off—especially given the rush in the corporate world and the kids being out of school. People stay home, they have free time, they socialize, they eat, and they drink. I don't see much of a basis here for claiming this is uniquely Christian behavior.

Easter is a far more significant Christian holiday, yet it doesn't possess even a fraction of this specific secular aura.

But then again, I fail to see how that could be considered hypocritical. True hypocrisy lies with those believers who feel compelled to impose their religious lifestyle on everyone else while failing to live up to those very standards themselves. Why should an atheist be labeled a hypocrite simply for participating in traditions tied to faith, provided they aren't forcing their own way of life onto others?

brightpilot6 said:A huge portion of Christian traditions has simply bled into folk customs over the centuries. It works both ways, really; just as certain "pagan" rituals were absorbed into Christianity. I haven't noticed anyone calling out Christians for hypocrisy regarding these, shall we say, peculiar customs.

All this modern revelry and the frantic scrambling around Christmas has very little to do with actual faith. Instead, it’s mostly driven by mass laziness and scheduled time off—especially given the rush in the corporate world and the kids being out of school. People stay home, they have free time, they socialize, they eat, and they drink. I don't see much of a basis here for claiming this is uniquely Christian behavior.

Easter is a far more significant Christian holiday, yet it doesn't possess even a fraction of this specific secular aura.

Look, nobody is questioning hanging out or spending time with family. It's about the rituals that are strictly tied to religious tradition, which are then performed by people who are explicitly against the faith just to prove how ridiculous it all is.
As Byron would put it, isn't there at least a hint of hypocrisy there? And why should someone who identifies as an atheist care that Tuesday or Wednesday are holidays while Saturday and Sunday aren't?

Until those same people—who claim they're all about socializing, gift-giving, and family time—actually show up to give gifts in two weeks or even during Eid, I'm not taking them seriously.
In fourteen days, you get the same kind of time off; plus, since it falls on a Monday or Tuesday, you practically get four days of vacation. In other traditions similar to ours, people still give gifts, eat, and drink. Why don't you do the same then? Whether you want to admit it or not, you're celebrating Christmas, a Catholic holiday.

Then there's Eid, where people socialize, exchange gifts, and keep folk traditions alive. I highly doubt you're out there buying presents for your family then, right?

brightpilot6 said:But then again, I fail to see how that could be considered hypocritical. True hypocrisy lies with those believers who feel compelled to impose their religious lifestyle on everyone else while failing to live up to those very standards themselves. Why should an atheist be labeled a hypocrite simply for participating in traditions tied to faith, provided they aren't forcing their own way of life onto others?

Do you get it now?
I know you're not a stupid person, so just go back and read what you wrote...

Hypocrites are:
- Believers who preach Faith to others but don't actually practice it.

Hypocrites are not:
- Atheists who insist Faith doesn't exist, yet still celebrate religious customs and holidays.