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Feedback & Suggestions: PDF Soccer League Operations

Started by Alex Cook · · 👁 63 views · 1.3K replies

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Participants Alex CookRyan Vaughn7Anthony Jackson2Dennis Evans6Carol Lewisanaloggull4Walter Grant5Michelle Palmer6Casey White13Matthew Anderson4brightpilot6Jerry Rogers6Ronald HallJessica Rogers2rapidstag2graniteheron132Anthony Barrett37David Anderson72Douglas KernLarry Fox5dustyridge3darkmarlin16Patrick Martinwiredcanyon39 …
Alex Cook Alex Cook Active MemberOP
157 messages
joined May 2009
#621 ·
Look, my stance is basically that we should split Primera into two camps—the constructive side (☕) and then the pure trolls—but only if we play by some actual rules. Like, fewer things would be subject to sanctions, but for the stuff that actually crosses the line... man, the hammer would come down way harder.

On the other hand—and I'm just looking at history here—the last time we talked about splitting things up (even though it never actually went down), well, we all saw how that played out. I’m not saying history is going to repeat itself with Primera, mostly because the crowd hanging out there isn't even remotely the same profile as the old guard we had back during the Premier League days... but hey, nothing is ever a guarantee.

Anyway, what do I know? I'm no genius. :/
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#622 ·
Emily Ward3 said:Why do we need Real Sociedad fans on this forum specifically? I’ve never seen anyone posting about Siena or Werder, so other topics seem perfectly fine. It shouldn't be about racking up a million posts or stretching a thread out into eight different parts; surely the goal is the quality of the information being shared. This isn't about small-market teams. The real issue is that most of you don't know where to draw the line and you keep badgering people with your constant "back-and-forth" bickering.
I have no idea how this thread hasn't hit 90 posts since last night following that Neymar goal; usually, in situations like this, things spiral out of control. 🤷

Seriously, why even have a sub-forum for fanbases that don't actually exist here?

Robert Torres said:Calling everyone here a troll who just trolls for the sake of trolling is a pretty shallow take. I think plenty of people want to have actual discussions, and most threads work perfectly fine without needing moderation. The nonsense is mostly limited to La Liga topics, anything touching on it, Champions League, the Ballon d'Or thread, and lately, the Bundesliga since Dortmund absolutely demolished the Madrid teams. 🙂
I seriously don't doubt that a new thread would be mostly normal discussion, simply because most users active on this site right now who aren't focused on Barca or Madrid are trying to play it straight. And let's ignore that whole mess between Athletic and Atletico that flared up maybe twice in the four years I've been here and never even resulted in a single ban.

Whether there are Real Sociedad or Levante fans out there who want to write something but feel they can't... I don't think it matters. What matters is that those of us posting right now clearly aren't happy with how things are.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there really are people who might contribute more, but the structure of this thread pushes them away. Take me, for example—I've been around here a while, but when I come back and have to scroll through five pages of the exact same garbage, I lose all motivation to post and just log off. Lately, my activity is pretty much just following matches live. There are also Valencia or Deportivo fans who pop in occasionally and might have something worthwhile to say, but they can't get a word in edgewise like this.
Anyway, let's at least try to change something. Maybe it'll work, and it's hard to imagine things getting any worse than this...

Independence ☕!

"Runs smoothly"? Give me a break. The Premier League thread is a ghost town, Serie A has been dead since the league lost its spark, and Ligue 1 isn't exactly a hub for high-level debate either. Look, once the notorious feralgardener36 and that inner circle moved over to the Premier League section, they left a vacuum for fans of the big league. And who stepped up to fill it? Absolutely nobody.

Quote:It’s also possible there are people who *would* contribute if the structure allowed it, but they just don't. Take me, for example. I've been around here a while, but when I show up and have to scroll through five pages of the exact same repetitive garbage, I just lose interest and log off.
If you aren't scrolling through pages of filler, you'll lose the will to write just the same. You're one of the few people actually providing substance in the La Liga thread; if we opened a separate thread, you'd be one of the few people providing substance (and perhaps one of the few users at all) in that one too.

Look, open the thread. It doesn't cost me anything. I’d gladly trade my dignity for a single thread that actually fosters a lively, constructive atmosphere for clubs outside the usual suspects. But I think this whole argument relies on flawed logic—it's not like Barcelona or Real Madrid are responsible for the trolling happening in their own corner.
brightpilot6 brightpilot6 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined Oct 2012
#623 ·
I get the feeling this isn't actually about trolling, but rather the sheer intensity of the debates surrounding the Lakers and the Celtics. They dominate the conversation, and they tend to grate on the nerves of anyone who doesn't care for them. It’s quite obvious we have two entirely different worlds operating within the NBA.

Yet, it would be genuinely strange if the volume of posts regarding those two teams wasn't so overwhelming. This stems both from the unique hierarchy of the league—where everything revolves around those franchises—and the reality that there are two massive, opposing camps of fans. Naturally, more content will emerge from the "debate" side of things rather than just pure reporting. I don't see how one could suppress that, nor do I see any reason to try (separating them is a different matter entirely...).
Anthony Jackson2 Anthony Jackson2 Regular
605 messages
joined Jul 2009
#624 ·
Nah, it’s not about the Real vs. Barça rivalry itself—that's fine. The issue is that these debates always devolve into a complete circus.
Larry Fox5 Larry Fox5 Regular
348 messages
joined Sep 2003
#625 ·
The real issue is that this thread has been totally infected by a plague spreading to every other discussion here. You can't even leave a simple comment without getting hit by an invasion of trolls—all of them acting like they were personally insulted and needing to explain how the world works through their warped little lenses.

You guys tolerate restlesssurfer9 just because he’s got some connection to the mods—even though in ten years on these boards he hasn't written a single decent post about actual football—and then you give permanent status to Zec, who's basically the ultimate expert in his own mind. I honestly don't get the logic...🤷
brightpilot6 brightpilot6 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined Oct 2012
#626 ·
A plague? Perhaps. But I’d take a plague over a situation where a group has to apologize for having a (genuinely hilarious) database regarding their rivals. ☕

By the way, Larry Fox5, don't you find yourself—across various different threads—explaining things strictly through your own unique lens?

Anthony Jackson2 said:Nah, it’s not about the Real vs. Barça rivalry itself—that's fine. The issue is that these debates always devolve into a complete circus.

I'm not so sure about that. If every single person contributes three or four posts to a specific subject within a thread, then a debate between the Yankees and the Red Sox automatically stretches to four pages, making the act of scrolling through them feel incredibly tedious. ☕
Larry Fox5 Larry Fox5 Regular
348 messages
joined Sep 2003
#627 ·
brightpilot6 said:A plague? Perhaps. But I’d take a plague over a situation where a group has to apologize for having a (genuinely hilarious) database regarding their rivals. ☕

By the way, Larry Fox5, don't you find yourself—across various different threads—explaining things strictly through your own unique lens?

I'm not so sure about that. If every single person contributes three or four posts to a specific subject within a thread, then a debate between the Yankees and the Red Sox automatically stretches to four pages, making the act of scrolling through them feel incredibly tedious. ☕

There’s a massive difference between explaining stuff and just trolling. Look, I don't mind when people post based on their beliefs—even if they're super subjective—but it really bugs me when it feels like they're doing it just to be a jerk. Actually, it doesn't even bug me that much since I usually just ignore them, but they get exhausting after a while because you can't find one decent post through all the spam. And hey, I'm all for good jokes and healthy banter, but there should probably be some balance with the actual football talk...

On that Premier League thread, I actually learned more from Robert Torres than the entire rest of the group combined—but his posts just get buried under a sea of nonsense because there are people here who just don't know when to stop.
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#628 ·
It honestly feels like we’re living in the Wild West over here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the mods aren't doing their jobs—Delejis didn't just pick up that nickname for nothing. But the idea that jokes and trolling are some kind of threat to me? Please. Most people come to this site to unwind, not to read a PhD dissertation on sports analytics.

Besides, if you ask me, those "dead" threads could actually use a little bit of this "infestation." You have guys like restlesssurfer97 and Anthony Barrett37 who know exactly how to deliver an irritatingly clever jab; they spark actual debates and, let's be honest, they can be pretty damn funny. Sure, when they cross the line, they get banned, but I think it's counterproductive for the community to completely shut down people like that.
Anthony Jackson2 Anthony Jackson2 Regular
605 messages
joined Jul 2009
#629 ·
Honestly, you both have a point—partially. The issue lies somewhere in the middle. Like I said, trolling isn't inherently the problem, especially if it's actually clever. A little bit of trolling can spark a debate, which drives up the post count, which in turn drives more clicks. And we all know this site exists for the clicks ☕
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That said, there has to be some level of restraint. When people show up just to drop brainless one-liners that make zero sense, it turns into a circus, obviously.

Then there’s the crowd that doesn't know how to handle a troll—they get it, but instead of responding, they just start whining, spamming emojis, and calling for the mods. Meanwhile, those same people will troll the second they get the chance. It drives me crazy, and frankly, it’s usually that exact group that ruins a thread with their stupidity. If you see someone trolling, either ignore them or shut them down with actual arguments 🙄
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It's the same story with people who don't even follow the league, yet they jump in to troll because there's plenty of material or enough naive users to bait
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When you put it all together, you don't end up with a debate seasoned with trolling; you just get a pile of nonsense that isn't interesting, funny, or anything positive. It sucks.

So, what's the fix? Start a live chat, I guess ☕
.
Just kidding—we'll talk it out, but things are definitely going to change
.
P.S. If anyone has feedback regarding the moderators, please move that conversation over to the Private Lounge 😉
.
Robert Torres Robert Torres Active Member
108 messages
joined Dec 2009
#630 ·
ruggedjackal46 said:Seriously, why even have a sub-forum for fanbases that don't actually exist here?

"Runs smoothly"? Give me a break. The Premier League thread is a ghost town, Serie A has been dead since the league lost its spark, and Ligue 1 isn't exactly a hub for high-level debate either. Look, once the notorious feralgardener36 and that inner circle moved over to the Premier League section, they left a vacuum for fans of the big league. And who stepped up to fill it? Absolutely nobody.

Quote:It’s also possible there are people who *would* contribute if the structure allowed it, but they just don't. Take me, for example. I've been around here a while, but when I show up and have to scroll through five pages of the exact same repetitive garbage, I just lose interest and log off.
If you aren't scrolling through pages of filler, you'll lose the will to write just the same. You're one of the few people actually providing substance in the La Liga thread; if we opened a separate thread, you'd be one of the few people providing substance (and perhaps one of the few users at all) in that one too.

Look, open the thread. It doesn't cost me anything. I’d gladly trade my dignity for a single thread that actually fosters a lively, constructive atmosphere for clubs outside the usual suspects. But I think this whole argument relies on flawed logic—it's not like Barcelona or Real Madrid are responsible for the trolling happening in their own corner.

I'm not necessarily demanding a thread that completely ignores the talk about LA or Miami. That was just one suggestion.
As far as I'm concerned, what Alex Cook suggested could work too—splitting it into two threads, one for the trash talk and another for actual discussion. But for that to work, the regulars would actually have to have the discipline to move the trolling over to the joke thread and try to act like adults here... 🤷
stormyharbor13 stormyharbor13 Member
43 messages
joined Jul 2012
#631 ·
Since the threads for the 2013/2014 leagues haven't been opened yet, I'll ask here.
Does anyone know when the pairings for the new Bundesliga season starting August 9th will be drawn?
Thanks.

P.S. When is the European Cup thread expected to open? The leagues are all set... we're waiting eagerly. 🙂
David Anderson72 David Anderson72 Active Member
135 messages
joined Jun 2011
#632 ·
Robert Torres said:I'm not necessarily demanding a thread that completely ignores the talk about LA or Miami. That was just one suggestion.
As far as I'm concerned, what Alex Cook suggested could work too—splitting it into two threads, one for the trash talk and another for actual discussion. But for that to work, the regulars would actually have to have the discipline to move the trolling over to the joke thread and try to act like adults here... 🤷

Honestly, discussions about those two clubs can actually be quite constructive. However, it only takes one person—and you can usually tell which side they’re rooting for—to start insulting someone, and then the whole thing just goes straight to hell.
Morgan Williams Morgan Williams Active Member
131 messages
joined Aug 2012
#633 ·
People might think I’m jumping on their side, but honestly, 60% of VB fans react like toddlers to even the most childish taunts. If ZZ wrote that Messi was an amateur, those five would swallow it whole.

I reckon if we just deleted posts alongside issuing heavy fines, all these problems would vanish overnight.
Ashley Bailey6 Ashley Bailey6 Active Member
208 messages
joined Jun 2013
#634 ·
stormyharbor13 said:Since the threads for the 2013/2014 leagues haven't been opened yet, I'll ask here.
Does anyone know when the pairings for the new Bundesliga season starting August 9th will be drawn?
Thanks.

P.S. When is the European Cup thread expected to open? The leagues are all set... we're waiting eagerly. 🙂

The Champions League and Europa League draws are already happening this Monday. First matches are in two weeks.

It’s my favorite topic and the best part of the year. Can't wait.
restlesssurfer97 restlesssurfer97 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined May 2004
#635 ·
Larry Fox5 said:The real issue is that this thread has been totally infected by a plague spreading to every other discussion here. You can't even leave a simple comment without getting hit by an invasion of trolls—all of them acting like they were personally insulted and needing to explain how the world works through their warped little lenses.

You guys tolerate restlesssurfer9 just because he’s got some connection to the mods—even though in ten years on these boards he hasn't written a single decent post about actual football—and then you give permanent status to Zec, who's basically the ultimate expert in his own mind. I honestly don't get the logic...🤷

Now that you brought up Zec, I gotta tell you, your entire history on this forum looks way more like his than it does mine.
You both hold views that frequently fly in the face of basic common sense, you both walk around acting superior to every other user here, and it's painfully obvious that while you might be well-versed in certain trivial facts about the soccer world, you don't actually understand the game itself very well at all.

The way Zec absolutely dismantled you during that debate about whether Bale might move to Real Madrid—man, you don't see that kind of beatdown every day.
The simple fact that you aren't even aware you were being brutally torn apart tells us everything we need to know about your grasp of the sport. Don't sweat it, you aren't the only one; this tendency to mistake knowing trivial trivia—like what Klopp had for dinner or how many times he hit the bathroom after breakfast—for actual football intelligence is a pretty common thing among hardcore fans. Anyway.

Anyone who has followed feralgardener36’s body of work will have a hard time finding any real similarities between how they write and how I write.
Zec was just a massive attention whore whose whole existence on this forum boiled down to finding a crowd he could argue with just to drive them crazy. The topics didn't matter, the opinions didn't matter, all that mattered was being contrary to everyone and trying to provoke them, and by the end of his career, he’d gotten pretty good at it.
It has absolutely nothing to do with my posts.

But like I said before, we actually have a lot in common; you also show up in a ton of threads looking like a complete alien with takes that defy elementary logic, and your online persona is so stubbornly resistant to any kind of influence from other users that it honestly reminds me of Zec—you remind me of one of those hard rubber bouncy balls you toss into a room that just smashes into everything, causing chaos everywhere it hits, while remaining totally unaffected yourself.

All in all, I know you aren't going to accept a single word of what I've written here, and I know that any intelligent follower of American football forums realized what I'm saying a long time ago, so this is basically a totally useless post on my part, a pure waste of time, but hey, my fingers just started flying across the keyboard. Nobody's perfect. ☕

ps. This conclusion of yours, that I have moderator protection, is basically the perfect summary of your entire presence on this forum; that one sentence says everything about your understanding of the topics you're trying to discuss. That's just who you are.
ruggedjackal46 ruggedjackal46 Regular
775 messages
joined May 2007
#636 ·
I think I fell asleep and woke up in some weird parallel universe where restlesssurfer9 spends his days making sausages and finishing them off with a little sign that says "deal."
Larry Fox5 Larry Fox5 Regular
348 messages
joined Sep 2003
#637 ·
Look at this guy trying to act all high and mighty. 🤣🤣🤣

Come on, Carlito, just give it a rest—you know damn well you're nothing but an unrepentant troll. Be a man and stop making excuses... 🙂
Ashley Bailey6 Ashley Bailey6 Active Member
208 messages
joined Jun 2013
#638 ·
Hey mods, can I get permission to edit Casey White13's opening post regarding the European championships?
Basically, the match dates from the second qualifying round onwards need to be shifted forward by one day.

If anything is unclear, you can find the details here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E...and_draw_dates

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013%E2...and_draw_dates
David Anderson72 David Anderson72 Active Member
135 messages
joined Jun 2011
#639 ·
This restlesssurfer97 is an absolute troll. I can’t recall him ever posting anything constructive or even remotely sane.
restlesssurfer97 restlesssurfer97 Veteran
1.2K messages
joined May 2004
#640 ·
Look man, let me just lay it out for you: my absolute worst, most trollish post is still more constructive than your best attempt at being helpful.

And no, I’m not even joking around here.

Besides, I think someone already had to break it to you that this thread isn't some designated dumping ground for the endless tears of those pathetic little VB16 losers. You're just trolling.

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