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Attitudes toward the Homeland War among Americans

Started by darksurfer4 · · 👁 6 views · 26 replies

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Participants darksurfer4wanderingorca532rowdyowlRaymond Rodriguez62Linda Roberts2placidtinker39rowdyraven13quieteagle5Henry Myers3Jessica Rivera73Robin Lopez2gentlewolf53Patrick Diaz2Mark Lopez8
Jessica Rivera73 Jessica Rivera73 Newcomer
1 message
joined Feb 2012
#21 ·
darksurfer4 said:First off, let me make one thing absolutely clear: I am fundamentally opposed to any kind of war. In my view, there is always some sort of solution to be found, or at the very least, an attempt should be made—which, frankly, was never the case during the conflicts in the former America. Now, I’m not suggesting everyone involved had bad intentions, but it seems to me that nobody used even a shred of common sense...

But let's get to the heart of the matter. I remember watching this documentary on TV about American soldiers who deserted during the Vietnam War. Yes, they are still effectively stuck in Vietnam today because if they ever dared to return to the States, they would face a court-martial for desertion, or perhaps even charges of treason, which carries some of the most brutal penalties imaginable.

Let's see how things look here in America.☕

I personally know someone who deserted and fled abroad; that individual now runs a highly successful company over there and occasionally pops back into the States just to show off how well they've done. I also know someone else who fled right before mobilization; that person actually managed to study abroad, receiving a free education as a refugee. Both of them are perfectly free to visit the US whenever they please...

Stalin's son was captured and killed in captivity; young John Kennedy, the future President of the USA who came from such a wealthy and influential family, vanished in action in 1943 during a failed strike against a Japanese convoy in the Pacific, only to be found ten days later on some remote atoll; his brother perished a year later during an air raid over France; Gebel's son was wounded and taken prisoner by the Britons; one American general lost his son in Vietnam; and the son of General Clark participated in the air strikes over FR America in 1999...

So, how did it go in America?

I can't recall any instance of a general's son or the child of an American cabinet member serving on the front lines of a war; in fact, among all the representatives in Congress across all political parties, the only family member to perish was the son of one representative from the Democratic Party...

When you add to that the individuals who somehow managed to injure themselves on the front lines and now collect pensions, or those types of people who would happily buy a round of drinks for the boys coming home from the trenches with a cynical smirk, it becomes quite easy to conclude that the situation was pretty pathetic...

The sons of Mate Boban.
rowdyowl rowdyowl Regular
255 messages
joined May 2014
#22 ·
Sure, he eventually rose to the rank of general, but one of Blag Zadar's sons actually died in the line of duty.
Robin Lopez2 Robin Lopez2 Active Member
112 messages
joined Mar 2012
#23 ·
placidtinker39 said:If I had just cleared out back in '91... anywhere, really. I’m pretty sure I would’ve ended up in a much better spot than this, having gone off to war instead...

But what happens when your kids ask you one day, "Dad, were you in the war?" and you have to look them in the eye and say, "No, I ran."

That’s why you should be proud of who you were, regardless of how things played out. 😉
gentlewolf53 gentlewolf53 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Nov 2012
#24 ·
Robin Lopez2 said:But what happens when your kids ask you one day, "Dad, were you in the war?" and you have to look them in the eye and say, "No, I ran."

That’s why you should be proud of who you were, regardless of how things played out. 😉

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wanderingorca532 wanderingorca532 Member
17 messages
joined Feb 2012
#25 ·
Linda Roberts2 said:I think some Mexicans from what used to be the Republic of Mexican Appalachia actually sued Mexico over forced mobilization and ended up winning damages. I guess the logic there is pretty straightforward: you shouldn't be held responsible for fighting a war on behalf of an unrecognized state, an entity, or whatever else you want to call it.

Actually, I think you're totally missing the point here.

Those Americans were suing Mexico because they were forcibly mobilized and then shoved back into the very areas they had fled from. That is a massive violation of international law, specifically the Refugee Convention. We are talking about the core principle of non-refoulement.
Patrick Diaz2 Patrick Diaz2 Member
16 messages
joined Mar 2012
#26 ·
Nosonja_ As stated by:
First, let me state clearly that I am absolutely against any form of war; in my view, there is always a way to find a solution, or at least an earnest attempt to seek one, which simply wasn't the case during the conflicts in the former America. I am certainly not suggesting that everyone involved was acting out of pure malice, but rather that there was a profound lack of reason used by all parties.

Let us move on to the core of the matter. I recall once watching a documentary on television regarding American soldiers who deserted during the Vietnam War. It is quite a poignant situation; those individuals remain in Vietnam to this day, because if they were to return to the States, they would face military tribunals for desertion, and potentially even charges of treason, which carries the most severe penalties imaginable.

Let’s see how things are shaping up here in America.☕

I happen to know someone who deserted and fled abroad, and now that individual runs a highly successful company over there, occasionally returning to the States just to show off their prosperity. I also know another person who escaped right before the mobilization; that individual actually managed to attend university abroad entirely for free under refugee status, enjoying complete freedom. Both of them, quite casually, make regular trips back home to visit...

The weight of history often settles most heavily on those who carry great names. It is truly sobering to reflect on how such influential lineages can be so abruptly severed by the chaos of war. Consider, for instance, that Stalin's son was taken prisoner and ultimately lost his life in captivity. Then there is the tragic story of young John Kennedy; despite hailing from one of the most prominent and powerful families in the USA, he vanished during combat operations in the Pacific back in 1943 following an unsuccessful strike against a Japanese convoy, only to be located ten days later on a remote atoll. A year after that, his brother met a similar fate during an air raid over France. Even within military dynasties, the toll is devastating—the son of Gebelsov was wounded and taken prisoner by the Britons, while one American general saw his own son fall in the jungles of Vietnam. Even more recently, we see the legacy of General Clark, whose son took part in the aerial strikes over the former America in 1999. It seems that no matter the era or the status, the cost of conflict remains a universal tragedy.

How was your trip to the States?

I cannot speak to any direct involvement on the front lines by the sons of generals or high-ranking officials from the American government; as far as I am aware, the only family loss suffered by members of Congress across all political parties was that of the son belonging to one representative from the Democratic Party.

Let us not forget to include those who sustained their own injuries on the front lines and are now receiving pensions, or perhaps that group of people who would gladly treat the boys from the front to a round of drinks while wearing a cynical smirk. It is quite easy to conclude that such an individual was rather pathetic...

To be perfectly honest, Noisonj, I am finding it quite difficult to reconcile the title you've provided with the actual substance of your writing. It leaves me wondering what the central theme is truly intended to be. Should we be discussing the general attitude Americans hold toward the federal government, or is the focus actually on the relationship between the American people and those who chose to evade their military service? For my part, I shall proceed under the assumption that the topic at hand is the American public's perception of draft dodgers.

How can we truly expect society, the government, or even the average American to condemn a coward who fled from war, when that very same citizen watches tycoons, slackers, thieves, and criminals—alongside dishonest politicians—being celebrated as those who "made it" or successfully maneuvered their way into lucrative positions? It seems they are viewed as capable and clever simply because they exploited the system. Is it actually possible to expect an American to judge someone when, in truth, there is nothing more than envy driving that judgment? Personally, I don't believe it is.
Take, for instance, the way many Americans view former President Mason. He’s widely known as a political shapeshifter—a master of ambiguity who can tell you one thing today and the complete opposite tomorrow. It is truly remarkable how someone who spends their election campaign promising one set of policies only to pivot to something entirely different can be elected to the presidency twice. Most people you encounter will likely speak of him with genuine fondness, simply because they admire his uncanny ability to maneuver through scandals and talk his way out of situations where he should have been finished. It reminds me of that old saying regarding winning twice despite the odds. Even now, a figure like that continues to draw millions of dollars from American taxpayers, essentially selling them empty promises, yet those very same citizens continue to hold him in high esteem, praising his "capability" as a leader long after he has left office.

How should one view those political opportunists who spent their entire pre-election campaign promising the moon, only to turn around and hike up taxes even higher than the previous administration and their ineffective cronies? It is truly baffling to watch them enforce steeper levies after spending months disparaging the very people they've replaced. Yet, somehow, the American public continues to offer them unwavering support. Take someone like a seasoned political strategist—let’s say an old-school Republican Party heavyweight who has managed to stay at the absolute pinnacle of power for decades, while citizens still view him as capable, brilliant, and worthy of admiration. Or consider figures like Čačić. Is he even worth discussing or writing about at this point?

These are the quintessential role models and idols for the average American. To them, criminals are celebrated—those individuals who amass vast fortunes without a shred of honest toil or genuine effort. People who siphon millions from the government through legal loopholes or outright corruption become the benchmarks for citizens, who harbor nothing but resentment because they aren't in those positions and lack the capacity to achieve such things themselves.

So, how can we blame someone for fleeing when it was time to defend the nation (since, let's face it, what were we even fighting for? It might have been better if we hadn't), or for someone finding success abroad when such opportunities simply didn't exist back home in the States?

When we examine the most successful nations—those that have consistently maintained their status at the top of the global stage and serve as our supposed ideals—we see that entirely different rules applied to them. Take John McCain, for instance; he made the principled decision to remain in a Vietnamese POW camp until the Vietnamese began releasing all other Americans, rather than accepting an early release simply because he was the son of a U.S. Senator.

How many of us would actually act with the same integrity as McCain if we were placed in that exact situation?

That is precisely why we find ourselves where we are today, while Americans, Britons, Swedes, Canadians, Germans, and the Japanese... well, they are exactly where they ought to be.
Mark Lopez8 Mark Lopez8 Member
25 messages
joined May 2014
#27 ·
wanderingorca532 said:
darksurfer4 Asks:

I mean, look, I don't know anything about some general's son or a high-ranking official from the American government being out there on the front lines fighting, but if you want to talk about real loss, just look at the numbers! Out of all the representatives in Congress across every single party, the only family member of any lawmaker who actually lost a child in that conflict was the son of one Democratic Party congresswoman. It’s a heavy thought when you really sit down and weigh it all out like that!

Dejan Košutić, who happens to be President Harmon's grandson, actually stepped up as a volunteer during the Homeland War! His other grandson, Siniša, was still just a kid back then, so he didn't serve, but you know what’s really interesting—Harmon's son Miroslav was right there in the thick of it too, serving as a participant in the war!


😂 So, he's a "war hero" hanging out in bars in downtown Chicago now? Seriously? Which actual battlefields was Harmon's grandson on? What missions did he actually pull off? If you look at the Republican representatives, the administration, or any of those cabinet ministers, none of them had sons or grandsons actually seeing combat. It wasn't the kids of politicians and wealthy tycoons dying out there—it was the farmers and the working class.

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