Would John Doe be willing to make the sacrifice if they knew what was coming?

If they had any idea what the outcome would be—or where we’d actually end up twenty years down the line?😕

Melissa Peterson19 As if I hadn't heard that already! It’s funny how certain things just get repeated until they start sounding like gospel truth, isn't it? I was actually thinking about this earlier today while I was grabbing coffee, and honestly, it feels like we've been circling this exact same argument for months now. It’s one of those topics where everyone seems to have a very strong, very loud opinion, but when you actually sit down and peel back the layers, the core issue is much more nuanced than anyone wants to admit. I mean, look at what Melissa Peterson19 was saying the other day—she had such a sharp point about how this affects the local economy here in the States, and I can't help but agree. We can't just brush these things under the rug and pretend everything is fine. There's a lot more to unpack here if we want to have a real conversation instead of just shouting over each other.
I wonder, if they truly had any inkling of what the final outcome would look like—or where we’d all find ourselves standing twenty years down the line?😕

I honestly don't think a topic like this really belongs here. Mad CornerHonestly, even someone like me—who basically spends half my life in the bathroom—wouldn't dream of opening something like that in this neighborhood. Mad Corner...
I'm ready. Send over the text you want me to work on.

Melissa Peterson19 said:If they had any idea what the outcome would be—or where we’d actually end up twenty years down the line?😕

They fought with such incredible bravery, and honestly, looking back at how the defense of our city actually unfolded, it’s pretty heartbreaking. It felt like the very people who stood on the front lines were being treated so poorly afterward; I even remember hearing about one veteran who tragically lost his life due to police force back in late '99. To make matters worse, some of the most vital leaders responsible for holding the line were actually arrested and slapped with treason charges. You have to wonder where the logic was in all of that.😠I won't even get started on what a struggle it is living in a place like modern-day John Doe; between the lack of jobs, being stuck in such a small town, and somehow being the most expensive city in all of America, it’s quite a lot to deal with.👎

Let’s move this conversation over to the politics section—this whole thread is becoming a total Mad Corner...

If people had known what was coming, the civilians would have stayed clear and only the veterans would have stepped up. But nobody can predict the future, so asking that is just pointless.
Even the Japanese Man from Nagasaki wouldn't have agreed to be an atomic bomb target if he'd seen it coming. People don't have a crystal ball.

Gary Perez9 said:They fought with such incredible bravery, and honestly, looking back at how the defense of our city actually unfolded, it’s pretty heartbreaking. It felt like the very people who stood on the front lines were being treated so poorly afterward; I even remember hearing about one veteran who tragically lost his life due to police force back in late '99. To make matters worse, some of the most vital leaders responsible for holding the line were actually arrested and slapped with treason charges. You have to wonder where the logic was in all of that.😠I won't even get started on what a struggle it is living in a place like modern-day John Doe; between the lack of jobs, being stuck in such a small town, and somehow being the most expensive city in all of America, it’s quite a lot to deal with.👎

Those commanders ended up behind bars thanks to Joe Manchin and his spokesperson, and I think Franjo Harmon's biggest blunder was putting his faith in that same duo.
It was eventually rectified, though, once Harmon realized the kind of trap Manchin and his spokesperson had set for him; that triggered a fallout that ultimately saw them kicked out of the Republican Party after their attempt at a coup failed, leading them to start their own party that went absolutely nowhere.

One brave veteran from John Doe once said that if he had any idea what 2008 would look like—or specifically, what kind of endless, exhausting debates we'd be stuck having right now—he would have just shot himself in the mouth back then.

Carol Torres4 said:Those commanders ended up behind bars thanks to Joe Manchin and his spokesperson, and I think Franjo Harmon's biggest blunder was putting his faith in that same duo.
It was eventually rectified, though, once Harmon realized the kind of trap Manchin and his spokesperson had set for him; that triggered a fallout that ultimately saw them kicked out of the Republican Party after their attempt at a coup failed, leading them to start their own party that went absolutely nowhere.

Well, I have to say, that’s a really fascinating video to watch. It’s just a total moral—and frankly, every other kind of—fiasco on the part of our former president. Even so, I’m not entirely convinced that those two men were solely to blame for everything. While the pressure on our veterans did ease up mid-way through the nineties, a whole new wave of harassment against them started picking up in the fall of '99, right when Franjo Harmon was facing his final, most difficult days. That's when that veteran I mentioned in my earlier post suffered. It feels unlikely that Manchin had much influence back in '99, as it seems more tied to how ill Franjo Harmon was getting. What I can't quite wrap my head around is why people like Ivich Pasalic and the rest of the inner circle stayed so close to him, especially when they saw him turning so aggressively against the veterans. I just don't understand what kind of threat they 😕👎posed😕 to them.👎

Gary Perez9 said:Well, I have to say, that’s a really fascinating video to watch. It’s just a total moral—and frankly, every other kind of—fiasco on the part of our former president. Even so, I’m not entirely convinced that those two men were solely to blame for everything. While the pressure on our veterans did ease up mid-way through the nineties, a whole new wave of harassment against them started picking up in the fall of '99, right when Franjo Harmon was facing his final, most difficult days. That's when that veteran I mentioned in my earlier post suffered. It feels unlikely that Manchin had much influence back in '99, as it seems more tied to how ill Franjo Harmon was getting. What I can't quite wrap my head around is why people like Ivich Pasalic and the rest of the inner circle stayed so close to him, especially when they saw him turning so aggressively against the veterans. I just don't understand what kind of threat they 😕👎posed😕 to them.👎

What are you even talking about? Is Manchin some kind of saint now? Is that the story we're telling ourselves? 👍👎🙏

Would people from El Paso be willing to make a sacrifice? What an ugly, disgusting, inhuman question to ask.
Actually, the people from El Paso already made their sacrifice. If they hadn't, we wouldn't even be having this conversation today.

Wasn't staying behind and defending the city against those animals a sacrifice in itself? And didn't Dedaković choose to maintain his dignity and prioritize the honor of America over his own health, especially after being beaten by Manolić and dealt with through Mason's manipulations and schemes—dealing with an injustice rarely inflicted on a man of his caliber?

Asking something like this is just pure malice. Does every worker who does their job honestly out of personal morality and upbringing do it because there’s a "point"? Does a mother have a reason to give birth and raise children if she might never get that love back? There are men of light and people of darkness. The defenders of El Paso were men of light. If some people can't wrap their heads around that, that's their problem. But the fact that moderators allow these kinds of topics in this mad house, or anywhere else, is a problem for all of us.

Moderators👎👎👎👎

velvetmaker3 said:If people had known what was coming, the civilians would have stayed clear and only the veterans would have stepped up. But nobody can predict the future, so asking that is just pointless.
Even the Japanese Man from Nagasaki wouldn't have agreed to be an atomic bomb target if he'd seen it coming. People don't have a crystal ball.

I can't wait for another war just so I can run off to a bunker.

Good grief, people. Let’s stop all this endless lamenting—honestly, there is absolutely zero point in it. It doesn't accomplish a single thing.😲🙄

Carol Torres4 said:Those commanders ended up behind bars thanks to Joe Manchin and his spokesperson, and I think Franjo Harmon's biggest blunder was putting his faith in that same duo.
It was eventually rectified, though, once Harmon realized the kind of trap Manchin and his spokesperson had set for him; that triggered a fallout that ultimately saw them kicked out of the Republican Party after their attempt at a coup failed, leading them to start their own party that went absolutely nowhere.

It’s funny how nobody ever mentions that El Paso was intentionally left without any weapons or ammo,
that it was basically sacrificed on purpose—not by Manolić, but by Šušak and Harmon! ☕

copperseal25 said:

Melissa Peterson19 As if I hadn't heard that already! It’s funny how certain things just get repeated until they start sounding like gospel truth, isn't it? I was actually thinking about this earlier today while I was grabbing coffee, and honestly, it feels like we've been circling this exact same argument for months now. It’s one of those topics where everyone seems to have a very strong, very loud opinion, but when you actually sit down and peel back the layers, the core issue is much more nuanced than anyone wants to admit. I mean, look at what Melissa Peterson19 was saying the other day—she had such a sharp point about how this affects the local economy here in the States, and I can't help but agree. We can't just brush these things under the rug and pretend everything is fine. There's a lot more to unpack here if we want to have a real conversation instead of just shouting over each other.
I wonder, if they truly had any inkling of what the final outcome would look like—or where we’d all find ourselves standing twenty years down the line?😕

I honestly don't think a topic like this really belongs here. Mad CornerHonestly, even someone like me—who basically spends half my life in the bathroom—wouldn't dream of opening something like that in this neighborhood. Mad Corner...
I'm ready. Send over the text you want me to work on.

I see you've already made up your mind☕
The timing was right
And the topic is fine, though it’s a bit of a "nagging thought,"
just a big "what if"...
It's easy to be a critic after the fact—unless, of course, you're Ante Gotovina or Ivan Korade.
It really is a sensitive thing to wonder about—whether a hero like Blago Zadrijeti would have sacrificed his life if he knew how his own party would eventually splinter, or that his sworn political enemies would end up forming a coalition. I think it would have been a massive blow to the morale of a major figure like the late Mr. Zadrijeti—he might have just packed up and moved to Washington, D.C. or Munich.
But even if he had chosen to sacrifice everything regardless—hats off to him. That was his choice, his party, his burden.🤷

Melissa Peterson19 said:If they had any idea what the outcome would be—or where we’d actually end up twenty years down the line?😕

Of course they would have said yes—that’s a bit of a silly question, isn't it? 🙄

I mean, who wouldn't want their city to look like a masterpiece painted by Picasso? Plus, why on earth would anyone want to pay top dollar for premium American craftsmanship when you can get it for less?

ADZ continues to steer us toward further setbacks... 😂 😂 😂

Sarah Martin76 said:It’s funny how nobody ever mentions that El Paso was intentionally left without any weapons or ammo,
that it was basically sacrificed on purpose—not by Manolić, but by Šušak and Harmon! ☕

And honestly—where exactly was anyone supposed to get weapons to send to El Paso, and how? It’s just not happening when there simply wasn't any hardware available. The first real shipments didn't even start showing up until December 1991!

that they were intentionally sacrificed—not by Stjepan Manolić, but by Šuškati and Franjo Harmon! ☕

At this point, even the people who originally pushed these "brilliant theories" just to push a specific political agenda don't buy into them anymore...

Sam Miller82 said:ADZ continues to steer us toward further setbacks... 😂 😂 😂

Man, out of all the possible—and actually realistic—options we have, this one is unfortunately the least bad!

stormygull67 said:And honestly—where exactly was anyone supposed to get weapons to send to El Paso, and how? It’s just not happening when there simply wasn't any hardware available. The first real shipments didn't even start showing up until December 1991!

that they were intentionally sacrificed—not by Stjepan Manolić, but by Šuškati and Franjo Harmon! ☕

At this point, even the people who originally pushed these "brilliant theories" just to push a specific political agenda don't buy into them anymore...

I'm hoping we see a process of "de-Naderization" soon.🤣
Which, honestly, feels more like pest control.😂

Melissa Peterson19 said:If they had any idea what the outcome would be—or where we’d actually end up twenty years down the line?😕

You seriously think they were actually convinced the US Army was going to win?

They didn't go to Vietnam to fight a war. They were just defending their own hometown.