State of the healthcare system in America: Let's discuss why it's failing

bluehawk37 said:Brandon Newman95 - It’s not incomprehensible to me. I always demand a detailed medical history and full clinical background. I don't play games. But once they start projecting their own issues onto me and drifting away from the actual problem, then we have an issue.
I work as a physician for the Maltese humanitarian organization. I move around frequently. I go wherever a doctor is needed. I don't hold a permanent position. I doubt we've met, but it doesn't matter.

jadesailor14 - I don't unload my frustrations on patients, so where are you getting that from? Sure, I raise my voice and I can be arrogant, but that lady at Chase Bank knows how to be, and so does the officer at the police station. Still, you get patients who
are experts at shifting the blame onto the doctor, but I put up with them because they're ridiculous.

Angela Wright - Generally speaking, I don't like oncologists or their literature. I have nothing against them personally, and I know it's a massive shock for anyone involved, and I empathize, but I avoid them. I would never do that job, regardless of the money.
Knowing that most of your patients are going to die and having to deal with that every single day is horrific. Respect to those people. I believe it would be a massive shock for anyone.

You definitely have a pretty wild job dynamic...🙂
I'd love to do something like that once I graduate... 🙂

I am totally with you on what you said, jadesailor14. I just don't get why people insist on denying the fact that being a doctor is a job, just like any other profession. You get up in the morning, head into the office, deal with a mountain of patients all with different issues, then go home to your family, and that's it. Any demand placed on a doctor outside of basic professional courtesy feels completely absurd to me...

And about those oncologists... man, that has to be the toughest job on the planet... you do everything in your power and still know the odds are stacked against them... facing death and seeing families fall apart every single day is heavy, and I honestly think the only way to mentally survive and stay sane is to just become a bit numb... I don't see any other way... every patient and their family is going to look for a shoulder to cry on, but nobody really understands where the doctor is standing in all of that. It's not just that outsiders—people who aren't doctors—can't wrap their heads around it, it's that even other doctors who aren't in oncology or hematology struggle to grasp what their colleagues are going through since they aren't staring down those specific problems quite as often...

I'm seriously signing my name to everything you just said...

Peter Stewart6 said:Apso, man, it’s been way too long! 😁
Bold is basically 95% medical student material. He "has every disease under the sun," depending on what they're lecturing about that day.
Which departments? 😬
I think you really mean it. You put some actual soul into those statements, so that's why I reacted the way I did.
P.S. Knowing how you operate, I honestly think this is just coming from burnout and exhaustion rather than any actual malice.
I'll give you this much: working with people can be genuinely exhausting sometimes. But when you finally figure it out...
It’s just easier when you have someone to do it for. 🙂

From a spiritual standpoint, that’s absolutely true, and I’ve never denied it. I still hold onto those beliefs, and I have a lot of respect for Professor Golub. Because of that, I've started looking at healthcare more through the lens of care and service.

🙂
In the hospitality industry, they always say the customer is always right. But honestly? I have my doubts. Is that actually true? 🤦
I’m not trying to make a direct comparison here, but I suppose there might be some overlap with healthcare, if you look at it as a specific type of care or service. It really comes down to the core idea of what "service" actually means—the act of serving others. I'm not talking about how qualified someone is to provide medical care or nursing, nor am I trying to compare those skill sets. I just think it's worth reflecting on where we stand and what our actual level of service looks like.
It’s almost like an automatic reflex, you know? Like some kind of programmed response. 🙂 Is it just empty politeness, or what? 🤷 I tend to write quite a bit. Maybe I'm just being a dreamer when I say things could actually be better—that we could do things differently. 🤷

People in hospitals—whether they’re staying long-term or just passing through—are all cut from different cloth. One of the guys on this forum tried to categorize doctors, so I figured I’d take a crack at categorizing patients instead. You’ve got your critically ill patients who actually need to be there, you’ve got the occasional visitors, and then you have the hypochondriacs. Honestly? Most of them fall into that last group. They can be incredibly rude, arrogant, and just plain unpleasant to deal with. I'll put my money on this: when you're actually sick and genuinely worried about your health, you don't really have the energy to go around being insulting. When things get heavy, you see people differently. It’s easy enough to deal with folks who are actually going through it—you can talk to them, connect with them. But those people who just show up and start making up illnesses? They’re honestly unbearable. The other day, my grandmother was sitting in the waiting room and told me she wanted an AIDS test. She said she’d noticed some symptoms that seemed to match up, but she doesn't really understand what AIDS actually is. Still, she wants the test. And honestly, who am I to tell her no? It feels completely pointless and useless... but there it is.

It really comes down to the individual; everyone is different, and everyone has their own temperament.
Divisions—yeah, those divisions can lead straight into prejudice. It’s true that there are people
who constantly project illnesses onto themselves; hypochondriacs. Their trigger is fear, and the roots go deep into the spirit. They look for answers on a physical level, but we need to investigate the spiritual
dimension and help free people from that fear. If we used a more thoughtful approach and better triage for these patients in primary care, we could actually make their lives easier, which would also shorten the wait times in various specialist clinics.
The trigger is fear, and sometimes that "copy-paste" mentality is justified, but more often than not, it's just hypochondria.

Bold, watch your step. You might want to walk that statement back; I've seen and heard enough
that I can't say I agree with you. Especially when it comes to offering a hand for this or anything else. I think I'm allowed to tell you that.
And honestly, if a grandmother wants to get tested for AIDS, then let her get tested once she can't be reasoned out of it. Anyone who has reasons to
be suspicious can go in for an AIDS test. Either help ease her fear or just send her on her way so you can have a clear conscience.
Then just move on without wasting your energy. 🙂

I generally take my role in the American healthcare system seriously. I stick to the code of ethics and maintain a sense of empathy toward my patients, though even I have my moments where I lose my cool. I’m only human, after all. That said, those lapses are rare; most of the time, I have plenty of patience for everyone.

🙂

In the hospitality industry, they claim the customer is always right. That’s nonsense. 🤦
It’s not an exact comparison, but there are definitely overlaps with healthcare, specifically regarding types of care and service delivery. It all comes down to the concept of service—being helpful and attentive. This isn't about technical qualifications or comparing skill sets. It’s simply worth considering where we currently stand on the scale of customer service.
It’s basically just pure automation. 🙂 Is it just fake politeness, or what? 🤷 I write generally. Maybe I'm being a dreamer when I claim things could be better and different. 🤷

It’s basically the same thing, except the hotelier takes the cash directly from the client, and their entire goal is to cater to them.
He’ll feel much better once his profits climb and he starts landing new clients.
Go praise that service somewhere else. I get paid too, though not excessively, but my goal is simply to help someone and save them. I don't see patients as a profit margin. If they don't like the care they receive, the door is right there—there are plenty of other doctors.

It’s all relative. Everyone is different, and everyone has their own way of doing things.
Divisions. There are divisions everywhere, fueled by water and prejudice. The truth is, certain people simply exist.
Some people constantly manifest illnesses out of thin air—pure hypochondria. Fear is their primary trigger, and the roots run deep within the spirit. They focus on physical symptoms when they should be investigating the spiritual cause.
We need to reduce the scale of this issue and free people from their fear. By implementing high-quality triage within primary care, we can improve patients' lives immediately and cut down the long wait times at specialist clinics.
His trigger is fear. That "copy-paste" approach might work occasionally, but most of the time, it’s just pure hypochondria.

That’s exactly why I hate divisions. They just breed prejudice. Besides, you'll find hypochondriacs everywhere you look. Sometimes you're actually afraid to deliver a diagnosis that carries zero weight, especially when the patient insists on their own theory and demands a battery of tests just to rule out two unlikely possibilities. It's a waste of resources and clogs up the system for people who actually need care.

Watch your step. You should probably retract that statement; I've seen and heard enough to know better.
I can't agree with you. Especially when you're willing to shake hands on this or anything else. I figure I'm allowed to say that to you.
If Grandma wants an AIDS test, she can have one. But she should wait until she’s ready to face the truth. Anyone with a legitimate reason can go get tested.
Either free them from suspicion or report them. Do one or the other so you can live with yourself.
Just keep moving. Don't waste your energy. 🙂

My conscience is always clear. I don't dwell on things or let them weigh on my subconscious. Everyone chooses their own path and lives with their own decisions. If someone wants to get tested, let them. I have no interest in reading headlines about some doctor refusing or denying a patient an exam. God forbid. Let them go. If they have the money, the willpower, and the guts, then let them book the appointments. 😁

Your work dynamic is certainly interesting.
I'd want that too once I graduate.

It’s high energy, but it's exhausting and demands far too much sacrifice.

I completely agree with you, jadesailor14. I just don't get this constant refusal to accept that being a doctor is a job, plain and simple. You get up, go to work, deal with a massive influx of patients and their various issues, then head home to your family. That's it. Any demand placed on a physician beyond basic professional courtesy is absurd.

I always go back to my time working in EMS for comparison. When you’re out on a call late Saturday night or early Sunday morning, pulling a nineteen-year-old girl from a totaled car and wondering if she’ll make it—praying to God for a miracle—your entire perspective shifts. You never know who you'll be rescuing or resuscitating next. In that moment, everything hinges on a single second and a razor-thin margin that sometimes doesn't even exist. A clerk behind a service desk will never understand that.

Oncology is hands down the most thankless job out there. You do everything humanly possible, knowing full well the survival odds are slim. Facing death and family tragedies on a daily basis is brutal. Honestly, the only way to survive that mentally is to become numb. I don't see any other way. Every patient and their family will look to you as their emotional anchor, but outsiders—and even fellow doctors who aren't oncologists or hematologists—don't truly grasp what that position entails. They just don't face those stakes every single day like an oncologist does.

I avoid my colleague whenever possible during work hours. They ruin my entire day. It’s pathetic, but that's the reality.
You need serious mental toughness to do this work. Facing defeat on a daily basis isn't for everyone. But when you actually win, the payoff is far greater than what an average patient experiences. This job is reserved for the few—it’s both a blessing and a curse.

I completely agree with everything you said.

Thanks. 😁

Jacob Fox6 said:You definitely have a pretty wild job dynamic...🙂
I'd love to do something like that once I graduate... 🙂

I am totally with you on what you said, jadesailor14. I just don't get why people insist on denying the fact that being a doctor is a job, just like any other profession. You get up in the morning, head into the office, deal with a mountain of patients all with different issues, then go home to your family, and that's it. Any demand placed on a doctor outside of basic professional courtesy feels completely absurd to me...

And about those oncologists... man, that has to be the toughest job on the planet... you do everything in your power and still know the odds are stacked against them... facing death and seeing families fall apart every single day is heavy, and I honestly think the only way to mentally survive and stay sane is to just become a bit numb... I don't see any other way... every patient and their family is going to look for a shoulder to cry on, but nobody really understands where the doctor is standing in all of that. It's not just that outsiders—people who aren't doctors—can't wrap their heads around it, it's that even other doctors who aren't in oncology or hematology struggle to grasp what their colleagues are going through since they aren't staring down those specific problems quite as often...

I'm seriously signing my name to everything you just said...

Are you having trouble reading? 😁
I already mentioned that it's a job just like any other!
I make sure to book my appointments properly, wait patiently in the lobby, and when I'm called in, I keep things short and sweet so I don't waste anyone's time (I actually write down bullet points so I don't forget anything or ramble too much 😁). All I expect is a solid check-up and some professional advice on what steps to take next
. I truly couldn't care less if that doctor had a rough morning, what their salary is, or what kind of drama they have going on at home... none of that matters to me
. I just want a straightforward, professional conversation that results in a solution
. And no, I'm definitely not volunteering for an AIDS test 😬
.
From my own experience running around various hospitals, I've noticed a bit of a pattern
. Most of the time, my issues were actually with staff members who weren't quite hitting the mark
. The rudest ones were usually the junior doctors and nurses
. On the flip side, the ones who have built successful careers and actually earned their positions have always been totally great
.

bluehawk37, love the username! Do you feel like you live up to it with your skills and hard work?
Because that's exactly the kind of doctor I need right now! 🤣

Regarding the username. I’m not being rude or arrogant like the guy with the same handle, though we share some traits.
I don't carry a box because I don't want people cornering me in the hallway. I like knowing everything, sticking my nose into business, and throwing colleagues off balance.
Mostly, I just joke around and mess with people (sometimes in a weird way). And yes, I usually grab a few rookies to bring along just so I can
show them the ropes. I also enjoy psychologically nudging patients if I notice they're being difficult. I can't help it,
but I feel the need to point out when people are wrong (provided they actually are).
That said, I'm not cheap and I don't go out with prostitutes.

You could argue it's about work ethic or knowledge, but he is a much greater medical genius, at least according to his reputation. I'm still far
from that level, and even then, it's largely fiction.

There seems to be a lot of talk here about groups of hypochondriac patients driving innocent doctors crazy.
I am a chronic patient myself: I’ve had asthma since early childhood (about a dozen hospitalizations and just as many ER visits, home visits, etc.—thankfully, it’s been under control for the last few years), and I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in my thirties (again, fortunately, no major flare-ups yet).
If you factor in dentists, gynecologists, ophthalmologists, and routine checkups—plus the fact that I’ve recently started psychotherapy because I believe mental health plays a massive role in both my diagnoses—I have certainly spent a significant amount of time seeing various doctors.
And I really don't think I can be lumped in with the hypochondriacs.

To start with the asthma, I have to say that all the doctors I saw as a child and as an adult, including those in the ER, were truly commendable. My primary care physician was great too. My psychotherapist has been wonderful as well.

The neurologists, with one notable exception, were also excellent. ("Well, why are you surprised? You already knew you had MS." — No, I didn't know. I don't have a crystal ball. But apparently, having just found out, I'm not supposed to be upset by the news, nor am I supposed to be distressed knowing my mother has been in a wheelchair for years because of this exact same disease.)

As for gynecologists, I’ve dealt with discomfort, neglect, a lack of willingness to explain things, and sheer arrogance. Now, I see specialists privately.

Here are a few instances that I will never forget: An ultrasound technician once acted like I wasn't even there; he was just hovering over me, chatting with his nurse, treating me like I didn't exist on the table. He told HER that I didn't have one ovary (this wasn't my first ultrasound, and I was quite certain I had two). Naturally, he didn't think that such a statement might interest or distress a twenty-year-old woman. When I asked him nervously what that meant, the guy just snapped at me to ask my gynecologist instead and kicked me out. I spent the entire subway ride home crying, imagining how my ovary could have just vanished. I called my boyfriend, and luckily, he knows "someone" over at a clinic in Manhattan; that person saw me at ten at night and—lo and behold—found the "missing" ovary.
It turns out it just wasn't visible because of my intestines or something similar. But clearly, it wasn't in that technician's job description to offer even a hint of a possibility, because that might mean he'd be acting like a psychologist or a social worker, as someone else mentioned here. And he isn't paid for that.

The second time was during a routine physical. Another ultrasound. This doctor at a clinic in a major US city also decided that the person lying on his table wasn't worth his attention, and he simply dictated to his nurse that I had a 3-centimeter growth on my liver. My grandfather passed away from liver cancer (not that anyone bothered to ask me about my family history). I don't know, and I shouldn't necessarily have to know, what a hemangioma is. This doctor also didn't think it was necessary to tell me that a 3cm growth doesn't necessarily mean cancer. Or would that be him playing social worker?

So, I think there’s no room for generalizations, regardless of which side you're on. Just because some people get annoyed by hypochondriac patients doesn't give them a reason to lash out at me, ignore my presence in the room, or casually drop a diagnosis while we're "in the hallway."

In my own line of work, I deal with people too. Even though it's not always a matter of life and death, and even though my clients can sometimes be quite colorful in their behavior and comments, I would never, ever allow myself to take my frustrations out on them. We are in the private sector, and our livelihood depends on our clients. Doctors don't have to worry about that: unfortunately, there will always be sick people.

bluehawk37 said:Regarding the username. I’m not being rude or arrogant like the guy with the same handle, though we share some traits.
I don't carry a box because I don't want people cornering me in the hallway. I like knowing everything, sticking my nose into business, and throwing colleagues off balance.
Mostly, I just joke around and mess with people (sometimes in a weird way). And yes, I usually grab a few rookies to bring along just so I can
show them the ropes. I also enjoy psychologically nudging patients if I notice they're being difficult. I can't help it,
but I feel the need to point out when people are wrong (provided they actually are).
That said, I'm not cheap and I don't go out with prostitutes.

You could argue it's about work ethic or knowledge, but he is a much greater medical genius, at least according to his reputation. I'm still far
from that level, and even then, it's largely fiction.

I was actually talking about expertise.
If I give you my test results and describe my symptoms, you just get into the zone and... heal me! 😍

I might gossip a little, but I certainly haven't been involved in prostitution! 😁

Since Kyle Lee7 listed a few of her experiences, it reminded me of a total disaster I had three years ago.
My daughter had surgery on both knees when she was 16.
It happened because someone accidentally bumped into her—just a clumsy hit that a healthy person wouldn't even feel—but it messed up both knees. We ended up at the ER at 10 PM (unfortunately, the injury didn't check the clock; if it had happened in the morning, we would've just gone to a salad bar instead).
She was in so much pain she couldn't even walk; thankfully she has crutches, but she still needs extra help.
The doctor on duty asks, "Well, does it hurt?" She says, "Yes."
His response? "Oh, then drop dead."
Honestly, bravo to that person—not as a doctor, but as a human being.
And please, don't take this as me saying all doctors are like that; there are wonderful people in medicine, but you have to admit there's some absolute trash out there too.
We explained the situation, and the scars are clearly visible.
Sure, her mother was chatting away and acting a bit restless that day, but none of his personal issues—whether he was having a bad day or thought I was drunk (when I actually have health issues myself)—justify a comment like that.
My mistake was not waiting until morning so we could skip this lovely treatment and just head to the salad bar.

I think OB-GYN could be highlighted as a particularly fascinating field, mostly because I’ve seen several of my friends and acquaintances receive worse treatment than a cow gets at a local farm vet (specifically regarding miscarriages, pregnancy complications, or issues during labor). There is this classic, frustrating pattern: a woman shows up with a legitimate issue, only to be told, "There's nothing wrong with you, go home." Then, just two days—or sometimes even just a few hours—later, that same woman returns with the exact same problem, which has now become much more advanced, and suddenly the staff is yelling, "Where on earth have you been?!!"
"Well, they sent me home," she says.
Man, what a joke.

There are always two sides to every story. It all comes down to the individual doctor, but I don't show up to work wound up. Usually,
my day is "brightened" by the small things. Sometimes, one stubborn, rude patient threatening to ruin your entire mood is enough to
spoil it for everyone else. I never make excuses for anyone. Everyone gets their five minutes.

Regarding the hallways, like I said, I don't hang around because I don't want to get caught off guard like some
rowdy sports fan. I move through the halls efficiently, handling everything in my office while taking care of minor tasks
on the fly in the corridor. "Ma'am, here are your results, take this and that, and have a nice day."
If there’s no need for a queue or a crowd, I settle it right then and send the patient home or to the pharmacy. Period.

I work with people too—and even though it's not a matter of life and death and my clients can be colorful with their comments, I would never dream of snapping at one of them. We are in the private sector; our survival and our paychecks depend entirely on our clients. Doctors don't have that same pressure: unfortunately, there will always be sick people.

Unfortunately, that's true, but it's a double-edged sword.
A private doctor can get away with almost anything because who is going to fire them? There's a shortage as it is. I saw this firsthand
at a certain summit. A doctor refused to follow union guidelines or whatever, got into an argument, stood up and
asked, "Who's going to fire me?" No one. That's different from being a doctor at a hospital or a government institution. I have a supervisor in administration,
and naturally, a boss at my firm. Feedback matters deeply to me. So, it varies. We have our own fears, too.

bluehawk37 said:There are always two sides to every story. It all comes down to the individual doctor, but I don't show up to work wound up. Usually,
my day is "brightened" by the small things. Sometimes, one stubborn, rude patient threatening to ruin your entire mood is enough to
spoil it for everyone else. I never make excuses for anyone. Everyone gets their five minutes.

Regarding the hallways, like I said, I don't hang around because I don't want to get caught off guard like some
rowdy sports fan. I move through the halls efficiently, handling everything in my office while taking care of minor tasks
on the fly in the corridor. "Ma'am, here are your results, take this and that, and have a nice day."
If there’s no need for a queue or a crowd, I settle it right then and send the patient home or to the pharmacy. Period.

I work with people too—and even though it's not a matter of life and death and my clients can be colorful with their comments, I would never dream of snapping at one of them. We are in the private sector; our survival and our paychecks depend entirely on our clients. Doctors don't have that same pressure: unfortunately, there will always be sick people.

Unfortunately, that's true, but it's a double-edged sword.
A private doctor can get away with almost anything because who is going to fire them? There's a shortage as it is. I saw this firsthand
at a certain summit. A doctor refused to follow union guidelines or whatever, got into an argument, stood up and
asked, "Who's going to fire me?" No one. That's different from being a doctor at a hospital or a government institution. I have a supervisor in administration,
and naturally, a boss at my firm. Feedback matters deeply to me. So, it varies. We have our own fears, too.

The complaint I made earlier didn't mean a thing to anyone,
not even to the director or the medical board.
If I mess up at work, even if nothing else happens, I get a massive lecture from the director—or if things get serious, from the owner. My pay could be cut in half (since part of it is performance bonuses, which they can always slash), and ultimately, I could end up out on the street!
If I were to tell a firm partner to drop dead, I’d be handed my walking papers that very same day. 😁
I guess when someone lacks basic manners, fear is pretty good at tying their tongue.

Yesterday, I noticed a similar topic coming up at my job!
The wording was different, but it all boiled down to the exact same conversations. 😬

jadesailor14 said:The complaint I made earlier didn't mean a thing to anyone,
not even to the director or the medical board.
If I mess up at work, even if nothing else happens, I get a massive lecture from the director—or if things get serious, from the owner. My pay could be cut in half (since part of it is performance bonuses, which they can always slash), and ultimately, I could end up out on the street!
If I were to tell a firm partner to drop dead, I’d be handed my walking papers that very same day. 😁
I guess when someone lacks basic manners, fear is pretty good at tying their tongue.

Yesterday, I noticed a similar topic coming up at my job!
The wording was different, but it all boiled down to the exact same conversations. 😬

It depends on who you are and where you work. Doctors aren't actually that protected. People might just not be used to it. It's different in other countries. A doctor abroad can afford to be more reckless than a doctor in America. Even if my pay gets hit, it’s so meager they don't bother touching it anyway. 😁
But a formal warning or a reprimand goes straight into my permanent file. When it comes time to transfer to another hospital, that follows you. In the worst-case scenario, I could even face jail time. Being unemployed is harder now than it used to be. 😁

bluehawk37 said:It depends on who you are and where you work. Doctors aren't actually that protected. People might just not be used to it. It's different in other countries. A doctor abroad can afford to be more reckless than a doctor in America. Even if my pay gets hit, it’s so meager they don't bother touching it anyway. 😁
But a formal warning or a reprimand goes straight into my permanent file. When it comes time to transfer to another hospital, that follows you. In the worst-case scenario, I could even face jail time. Being unemployed is harder now than it used to be. 😁

Isn't it actually the other way around?
I feel like negligence, rudeness, or bribery are punished much more strictly over there than they are here!
Don't get me wrong, those things definitely happen everywhere, but I really get the impression they hit them harder abroad.
Around here, it seems like people only face consequences if they completely mess everything up; nobody really gives a second thought to the "little things."

jadesailor14 said:Are you having trouble reading? 😁
I already mentioned that it's a job just like any other!
I make sure to book my appointments properly, wait patiently in the lobby, and when I'm called in, I keep things short and sweet so I don't waste anyone's time (I actually write down bullet points so I don't forget anything or ramble too much 😁). All I expect is a solid check-up and some professional advice on what steps to take next
. I truly couldn't care less if that doctor had a rough morning, what their salary is, or what kind of drama they have going on at home... none of that matters to me
. I just want a straightforward, professional conversation that results in a solution
. And no, I'm definitely not volunteering for an AIDS test 😬
.
From my own experience running around various hospitals, I've noticed a bit of a pattern
. Most of the time, my issues were actually with staff members who weren't quite hitting the mark
. The rudest ones were usually the junior doctors and nurses
. On the flip side, the ones who have built successful careers and actually earned their positions have always been totally great
.

bluehawk37, love the username! Do you feel like you live up to it with your skills and hard work?
Because that's exactly the kind of doctor I need right now! 🤣

It's not a reading problem, because I wasn't even talking to you... I was just agreeing with what bluehawk37 wrote and adding my own thoughts which had absolutely nothing to do with you...

You totally misread me because I was building on the part where bluehawk37 was addressing you, so it looked like I was disagreeing with you, but that wasn't it at all...🙂

jadesailor14 said:The complaint I made earlier didn't mean a thing to anyone,
not even to the director or the medical board.
If I mess up at work, even if nothing else happens, I get a massive lecture from the director—or if things get serious, from the owner. My pay could be cut in half (since part of it is performance bonuses, which they can always slash), and ultimately, I could end up out on the street!
If I were to tell a firm partner to drop dead, I’d be handed my walking papers that very same day. 😁
I guess when someone lacks basic manners, fear is pretty good at tying their tongue.

Yesterday, I noticed a similar topic coming up at my job!
The wording was different, but it all boiled down to the exact same conversations. 😬

Look, we have those exact same mechanisms here in the States. If someone deserves a massive dressing down, they get one, plain and simple; no complaints there. Otherwise, you do see places where they try to dock pay for disciplinary reasons, but usually, they don't actually let the high performers earn more—it's always just an excuse to put people in the red. It’s like, if you’re managing a cash register, you better make sure the drawer balances; if money is flying out of there, management is going to lose it, asking "What on earth are you doing?" But honestly, anyone who has ever had even a shred of actual management training doesn't need me to spell out why this is such a toxic way to run a business. When employee motivation is driven exclusively by negative feedback and fear, we all know exactly how that disaster ends...

jadesailor14 said:Isn't it actually the other way around?
I feel like negligence, rudeness, or bribery are punished much more strictly over there than they are here!
Don't get me wrong, those things definitely happen everywhere, but I really get the impression they hit them harder abroad.
Around here, it seems like people only face consequences if they completely mess everything up; nobody really gives a second thought to the "little things."

I don't know. As I mentioned, I work in humanitarian aid and travel quite a bit, so I wouldn't say that's true. In the EU, everything runs smoothly because roles are clearly defined. You know exactly who the doctor is, what they do, who the patient is, and what their responsibilities are. It's different in NY; over there, you basically act like a sheriff. Mistakes just get buried and nobody asks questions. (And I mean that literally). I worked in NY for two months and could never get used to that way of operating. It's far more complex there. Plus, the mentality is completely different. But if you screw up, you're done. There's no saving you.

jadesailor14 said:I really can't argue with that—some people definitely are.
But honestly, you find scum on both sides of the aisle.

So, you mentioned you'd love to see patients stepping into the doctors' shoes for once.
I bet it would be quite the sight to see some of those arrogant, rude doctors experiencing life as patients when they end up under the care of one of their own colleagues!
And let's be real, they wouldn't have their buddies looking out for them, either.

Ten years of school, training, and specializing...
Why emphasize that so much? Are you expecting a medal for it, or maybe some special thanks or admiration?
Do you think people in other professions don't spend years studying and honing their craft throughout their entire lives?
And most of them aren't even doing it on the government's dime—they're paying for it themselves!
Nowadays, if you aren't constantly leveling up, you just get left behind in the job market.

Look, I expect a salary that actually reflects my level of education, but as for a medal? You can have it, or give it to someone else if they want it.
In other fields, people don't undergo the same kind of mandatory, continuous specialization required in medicine—and I'm not even talking about the extra certifications, because those exist everywhere, not just in the medical field.
Was your college degree paid for by the government or out of your own pocket? Since specialization is essentially just an extension of medical school—and you literally cannot practice without it in any reasonable timeframe (actually, in most cases, you can't even start without it)—who exactly is supposed to foot the bill? Me? Or the government/company I work for?

Brandon Newman95 said:Well, I am not buying that. Real doctors look at both the lab results AND the patient. Because according to you, I'm just another number in a long line and you couldn't care less. And don't even get me started on how private clinics and hospitals play together. As for that last sentence, I only believe the part about being short on equipment. Patients have access to way more information now and they want to know if their lives are actually at risk or not. They want things explained to them. They don't want to be dragged along like a kid on a leash for three years.

Well, newsflash: you *are* just another patient in the queue—what else would you be? To them, everyone is exactly the same.

jadesailor14 said:Are you having trouble reading? 😁
I already mentioned that it's a job just like any other!
I make sure to book my appointments properly, wait patiently in the lobby, and when I'm called in, I keep things short and sweet so I don't waste anyone's time (I actually write down bullet points so I don't forget anything or ramble too much 😁). All I expect is a solid check-up and some professional advice on what steps to take next
. I truly couldn't care less if that doctor had a rough morning, what their salary is, or what kind of drama they have going on at home... none of that matters to me
. I just want a straightforward, professional conversation that results in a solution
. And no, I'm definitely not volunteering for an AIDS test 😬
.
From my own experience running around various hospitals, I've noticed a bit of a pattern
. Most of the time, my issues were actually with staff members who weren't quite hitting the mark
. The rudest ones were usually the junior doctors and nurses
. On the flip side, the ones who have built successful careers and actually earned their positions have always been totally great
.

bluehawk37, love the username! Do you feel like you live up to it with your skills and hard work?
Because that's exactly the kind of doctor I need right now! 🤣

You know what true professionalism would look like for about 60-70% of the patients walking into an ER? It would be saying: "You can leave now, and you'll be notified in the morning regarding the official legal proceedings being initiated against you for obstructing emergency medical services." Now *that* would be pure professionalism.

The reality is that these high-ranking officials often hold those positions because the rude, bottom-tier staff handle both their work and the work of those above them—leaving the higher-ups plenty of time to focus on "science" and "advancement" at everyone else's expense. Go to a major teaching hospital and look at the surnames of the veteran doctors versus the names of the newcomers. The young ones whose names you see associated with the older generation will likely be professors and PhDs in a few years; the other group? They'll just become more arrogant doctors. Just so you know how the game is played.

Kyle Lee7 said:There seems to be a lot of talk here about groups of hypochondriac patients driving innocent doctors crazy.
I am a chronic patient myself: I’ve had asthma since early childhood (about a dozen hospitalizations and just as many ER visits, home visits, etc.—thankfully, it’s been under control for the last few years), and I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in my thirties (again, fortunately, no major flare-ups yet).
If you factor in dentists, gynecologists, ophthalmologists, and routine checkups—plus the fact that I’ve recently started psychotherapy because I believe mental health plays a massive role in both my diagnoses—I have certainly spent a significant amount of time seeing various doctors.
And I really don't think I can be lumped in with the hypochondriacs.

To start with the asthma, I have to say that all the doctors I saw as a child and as an adult, including those in the ER, were truly commendable. My primary care physician was great too. My psychotherapist has been wonderful as well.

The neurologists, with one notable exception, were also excellent. ("Well, why are you surprised? You already knew you had MS." — No, I didn't know. I don't have a crystal ball. But apparently, having just found out, I'm not supposed to be upset by the news, nor am I supposed to be distressed knowing my mother has been in a wheelchair for years because of this exact same disease.)

As for gynecologists, I’ve dealt with discomfort, neglect, a lack of willingness to explain things, and sheer arrogance. Now, I see specialists privately.

Here are a few instances that I will never forget: An ultrasound technician once acted like I wasn't even there; he was just hovering over me, chatting with his nurse, treating me like I didn't exist on the table. He told HER that I didn't have one ovary (this wasn't my first ultrasound, and I was quite certain I had two). Naturally, he didn't think that such a statement might interest or distress a twenty-year-old woman. When I asked him nervously what that meant, the guy just snapped at me to ask my gynecologist instead and kicked me out. I spent the entire subway ride home crying, imagining how my ovary could have just vanished. I called my boyfriend, and luckily, he knows "someone" over at a clinic in Manhattan; that person saw me at ten at night and—lo and behold—found the "missing" ovary.
It turns out it just wasn't visible because of my intestines or something similar. But clearly, it wasn't in that technician's job description to offer even a hint of a possibility, because that might mean he'd be acting like a psychologist or a social worker, as someone else mentioned here. And he isn't paid for that.

The second time was during a routine physical. Another ultrasound. This doctor at a clinic in a major US city also decided that the person lying on his table wasn't worth his attention, and he simply dictated to his nurse that I had a 3-centimeter growth on my liver. My grandfather passed away from liver cancer (not that anyone bothered to ask me about my family history). I don't know, and I shouldn't necessarily have to know, what a hemangioma is. This doctor also didn't think it was necessary to tell me that a 3cm growth doesn't necessarily mean cancer. Or would that be him playing social worker?

So, I think there’s no room for generalizations, regardless of which side you're on. Just because some people get annoyed by hypochondriac patients doesn't give them a reason to lash out at me, ignore my presence in the room, or casually drop a diagnosis while we're "in the hallway."

In my own line of work, I deal with people too. Even though it's not always a matter of life and death, and even though my clients can sometimes be quite colorful in their behavior and comments, I would never, ever allow myself to take my frustrations out on them. We are in the private sector, and our livelihood depends on our clients. Doctors don't have to worry about that: unfortunately, there will always be sick people.

The whole diagnostic process basically runs like an assembly line. And honestly? It’s probably better for the patients that it works this way. If they actually sat down with every single person to dissect every little detail and answer every single question a patient might have, the waiting lists would get even longer, and we'd all be back sliding backward.
When you get sent for a diagnostic test, someone refers you, and then *that* person is usually the one who interprets the results, not necessarily the person performing the actual test (though, if they're feeling generous, they might—but they don't have to). If you decide to go out and order the tests yourself, well, you know how it goes: you either interpret them yourself or you pay someone else to do it for you.

Kate Collins67 said:Look, I expect a salary that actually reflects my level of education, but as for a medal? You can have it, or give it to someone else if they want it.
In other fields, people don't undergo the same kind of mandatory, continuous specialization required in medicine—and I'm not even talking about the extra certifications, because those exist everywhere, not just in the medical field.
Was your college degree paid for by the government or out of your own pocket? Since specialization is essentially just an extension of medical school—and you literally cannot practice without it in any reasonable timeframe (actually, in most cases, you can't even start without it)—who exactly is supposed to foot the bill? Me? Or the government/company I work for?

When you crunch the numbers, the paycheck ends up being pretty much in line with the rest of the American healthcare system and the general economy.
We really need to keep our expectations grounded in reality these days. One worker in the private sector is often carrying several other people on their back—think civil servants, kids, the unemployed, and retirees.
I'm sorry you feel like your pay is too low, but that’s hardly an excuse for cutting corners with patients or doing a sloppy job!

It seems like you don't really understand other professions, even though you clearly think yours is the best.
There's honestly nothing left to say about that.

I doubt you'll commit to working for the government your entire career or swear off private practice entirely.
Only in that specific scenario would it be fair for the state to cover your training.
At the end of the day, all this schooling is an investment in oneself, so that's how we should look at it.
That said, we definitely need to encourage excellence! I'm not quite sure how we handle scholarships in the American medical system, but I know they have some amazing programs abroad that are totally top-tier.

Kate Collins67 said:You know what true professionalism would look like for about 60-70% of the patients walking into an ER? It would be saying: "You can leave now, and you'll be notified in the morning regarding the official legal proceedings being initiated against you for obstructing emergency medical services." Now *that* would be pure professionalism.

The reality is that these high-ranking officials often hold those positions because the rude, bottom-tier staff handle both their work and the work of those above them—leaving the higher-ups plenty of time to focus on "science" and "advancement" at everyone else's expense. Go to a major teaching hospital and look at the surnames of the veteran doctors versus the names of the newcomers. The young ones whose names you see associated with the older generation will likely be professors and PhDs in a few years; the other group? They'll just become more arrogant doctors. Just so you know how the game is played.

But honestly, none of this affects me.
I really couldn't care less about why you (or anyone else) are so worked up just because some lady caused a scene during the night shift.
I've personally had to hit the ER twice for my own reasons.
Once when I was completely wiped out and needed some serious help,
and the second time because my kid decided to go into labor right at 1:30 AM!
Unfortunately, I didn't have the luxury of waiting around even once.

I truly believe it comes down to how someone was raised, their personal culture... and whether they actually have the drive and intelligence to keep learning.