State of the healthcare system in America: Let's discuss why it's failing

I expect a salary that matches my education. As for the award, I’m handing it to you—unless someone else wants it.
People in other fields don't undergo the same level of mandatory training or continuous education required in medicine. I won't even get into elective certifications, since those exist everywhere.
Was your fellowship funded by the government or out of your own pocket? Since specialization is essentially just an extension of medical school—and you can't actually practice without it—who should be picking up the tab? Me, or the state I work for?

I agree. It’s scientifically proven that the facts a medical student learns during their first year are either obsolete or completely irrelevant by the third.
We’re expected to attend all these summits and lectures just to stay current. Most of them cost a fortune. Nobody ever asks if we can actually afford it.

If you want to see true professionalism, here is how we should handle about 60-70% of the people walking into an ER: "You can leave now, and you'll be notified later regarding the official legal action being taken against you for obstructing emergency medical services." That would be pure professionalism.

I stand by that. It’s especially necessary when my wife shows up at the ER asking me to check her blood pressure because she feels dizzy and her doctor's office is backed up. -.-

@ jadesailor14

Did the government foot the bill for your K-12 education, or maybe even your college degree? And because they did, are you somehow legally obligated to spend your entire career stuck in public service?
I’m perfectly entitled to feel underpaid and demand a raise—if you actually think you're being compensated fairly, fine, good for you, but I don't. Everyone fights for their own interests, don't they?

Come on then, enlighten me. Give me some actual, concrete examples of other career paths I could take. And please—spare me the vague guesswork and give me specific professions that require longer schooling. Just... please, no more empty clichés about how "we all need to keep learning forever" to justify everything.

jadesailor14 said:But honestly, none of this affects me.
I really couldn't care less about why you (or anyone else) are so worked up just because some lady caused a scene during the night shift.
I've personally had to hit the ER twice for my own reasons.
Once when I was completely wiped out and needed some serious help,
and the second time because my kid decided to go into labor right at 1:30 AM!
Unfortunately, I didn't have the luxury of waiting around even once.

I truly believe it comes down to how someone was raised, their personal culture... and whether they actually have the drive and intelligence to keep learning.

It’ll hit home one day when you or someone close to you ends up dealing with that exact same woman—because she'll be the one sitting in the clinic instead of you, and you'll just be stuck waiting, wondering if you'll even make it through the night.

bluehawk37 said:

I expect a salary that matches my education. As for the award, I’m handing it to you—unless someone else wants it.
People in other fields don't undergo the same level of mandatory training or continuous education required in medicine. I won't even get into elective certifications, since those exist everywhere.
Was your fellowship funded by the government or out of your own pocket? Since specialization is essentially just an extension of medical school—and you can't actually practice without it—who should be picking up the tab? Me, or the state I work for?

I agree. It’s scientifically proven that the facts a medical student learns during their first year are either obsolete or completely irrelevant by the third.
We’re expected to attend all these summits and lectures just to stay current. Most of them cost a fortune. Nobody ever asks if we can actually afford it.

If you want to see true professionalism, here is how we should handle about 60-70% of the people walking into an ER: "You can leave now, and you'll be notified later regarding the official legal action being taken against you for obstructing emergency medical services." That would be pure professionalism.

I stand by that. It’s especially necessary when my wife shows up at the ER asking me to check her blood pressure because she feels dizzy and her doctor's office is backed up. -.-

I really think you guys get hit with all kinds of odd requests, though I suspect you might be exaggerating just a little bit here and there.

Speaking of money, though...
I honestly think anyone who books an appointment and then just ghosts it without canceling should get sent a bill for the full amount!
Just imagine how much those waiting lists would shrink if we did that.
I bet half the people book multiple slots thinking they can squeeze in sooner, or they just magically feel better and decide it's too much effort to call and cancel.
If you didn't show up, hey—pay the fee and try booking again! 😁

jadesailor14 said:I really think you guys get hit with all kinds of odd requests, though I suspect you might be exaggerating just a little bit here and there.

Speaking of money, though...
I honestly think anyone who books an appointment and then just ghosts it without canceling should get sent a bill for the full amount!
Just imagine how much those waiting lists would shrink if we did that.
I bet half the people book multiple slots thinking they can squeeze in sooner, or they just magically feel better and decide it's too much effort to call and cancel.
If you didn't show up, hey—pay the fee and try booking again! 😁

Oh, I’d love to do that too—but hey, it's not like anyone asked for my opinion, right? Honestly, we should just slap 100% surcharges on everyone who messes around in the ER, and maybe then everyone would finally just calm down and behave.

Kate Collins67 said:Well, newsflash: you *are* just another patient in the queue—what else would you be? To them, everyone is exactly the same.

It’s not about that. I'm someone who expects to actually be seen and heard. I mean, after paying through the nose for all these "miracle" treatments, I should have been hospitalized and sorted out within two weeks—not left dealing with improper care while still trying to recover, which shouldn't even be happening. A lot of this depends on your environment, too.
Take my own situation back in the day—I was in my 80s—I caught this atypical viral pneumonia. Thank God I had an incredible primary care doctor; he actually heard the crackling in my lungs and sent me straight to the Mayo Clinic. They barely even caught it there, and get this: they were practically pulling blood from my ear or something. Then later, my dad caught pneumonia too. My GP was the only one smart enough to ask if we had any pets at home. Yeah, we had a parrot that died right after, and we ended up taking it to the local vet. Turns out, we got our pneumonia from that damn parrot. Atypical viral pneumonia, of all things.
And as for you—if the medical field doesn't satisfy you—well, we all know why people go into it, and I don't think doctors are some special breed of humans. You should've known what you were signing up for and what you'd have to sacrifice.
It's like a baby doesn't ask if it's going to be born tomorrow morning or whatever. It just happens.
Doctors, seriously, come down from your high horses—especially you younger ones.

Kate Collins67 said:@ jadesailor14

Did the government foot the bill for your K-12 education, or maybe even your college degree? And because they did, are you somehow legally obligated to spend your entire career stuck in public service?
I’m perfectly entitled to feel underpaid and demand a raise—if you actually think you're being compensated fairly, fine, good for you, but I don't. Everyone fights for their own interests, don't they?

Come on then, enlighten me. Give me some actual, concrete examples of other career paths I could take. And please—spare me the vague guesswork and give me specific professions that require longer schooling. Just... please, no more empty clichés about how "we all need to keep learning forever" to justify everything.

Are you legally required to work for the government?
At least today, you have options!

I’d actually love to work for the government right now just for the job security. Sadly, I’m not exactly the best at what I do, and taking sick leave might actually get me fired.
Unfortunately, I didn't think about stuff like this 25 years ago, and now I can't really pivot easily.😁

I won't try to lecture you since you're clearly educated and smart—you'll figure it out on your own! 😉
Just look at the job listings below.

Kate Collins67 said:Oh, I’d love to do that too—but hey, it's not like anyone asked for my opinion, right? Honestly, we should just slap 100% surcharges on everyone who messes around in the ER, and maybe then everyone would finally just calm down and behave.

Just because I haven't personally had to rely on the ER much doesn't mean I haven't kept an eye on things.😁
I haven't seen any massive, crazy crowds anywhere lately.
Where on earth are you finding these huge lines—is the ER packed like Grand Central Station or something?
I know you probably won't reply, but honestly, this seems a little weird to me! 🤷

jadesailor14 said:Are you legally required to work for the government?
At least today, you have options!

I’d actually love to work for the government right now just for the job security. Sadly, I’m not exactly the best at what I do, and taking sick leave might actually get me fired.
Unfortunately, I didn't think about stuff like this 25 years ago, and now I can't really pivot easily.😁

I won't try to lecture you since you're clearly educated and smart—you'll figure it out on your own! 😉
Just look at the job listings below.

Well, get this—I am absolutely obligated to work for the state. Why? Because my education was tied to a binding service contract. If I quit, I lose everything I've worked for... so much for "free" education, huh?

jadesailor14 said:Just because I haven't personally had to rely on the ER much doesn't mean I haven't kept an eye on things.😁
I haven't seen any massive, crazy crowds anywhere lately.
Where on earth are you finding these huge lines—is the ER packed like Grand Central Station or something?
I know you probably won't reply, but honestly, this seems a little weird to me! 🤷

I don't work directly in the ER—my role is in the hospital proper—but I frequently have to pull shifts covering the emergency outpatient clinics. And let me tell you, those places can get absolutely slammed. If you’re looking for me and it doesn't look like chaos out front, try swinging by one of the three main units nearby: pediatric emergency, surgical emergency, or internal medicine. There are other specialized wings, obviously, but those are the ones where things actually get busy.

Kate Collins67 said:@ jadesailor14

Did the government foot the bill for your K-12 education, or maybe even your college degree? And because they did, are you somehow legally obligated to spend your entire career stuck in public service?
I’m perfectly entitled to feel underpaid and demand a raise—if you actually think you're being compensated fairly, fine, good for you, but I don't. Everyone fights for their own interests, don't they?

Come on then, enlighten me. Give me some actual, concrete examples of other career paths I could take. And please—spare me the vague guesswork and give me specific professions that require longer schooling. Just... please, no more empty clichés about how "we all need to keep learning forever" to justify everything.

Look, the only thing I’ll agree on is that doctors are underpaid. There are plenty of other ways to make money, but I'm not going to get into that on this forum.
It isn't even about the years of school. They should be teaching basic stuff at medical school: how to actually deal with patients, the doctor-patient relationship, how to communicate properly. Because if I ask, "Hey, does this med have side effects?" I expect an actual answer from a doctor. Not some "no, there are no side effects" nonsense—unless they want me stumbling around my house like a drunk. And then, suddenly, someone remembers, "Oh, by the way, this drug has a ton of side effects until your body adjusts, and don't take it on an empty stomach." Great. Just great.
In every profession, people need to learn things—it just depends on the individual.

Brandon Newman95 said:It’s not about that. I'm someone who expects to actually be seen and heard. I mean, after paying through the nose for all these "miracle" treatments, I should have been hospitalized and sorted out within two weeks—not left dealing with improper care while still trying to recover, which shouldn't even be happening. A lot of this depends on your environment, too.
Take my own situation back in the day—I was in my 80s—I caught this atypical viral pneumonia. Thank God I had an incredible primary care doctor; he actually heard the crackling in my lungs and sent me straight to the Mayo Clinic. They barely even caught it there, and get this: they were practically pulling blood from my ear or something. Then later, my dad caught pneumonia too. My GP was the only one smart enough to ask if we had any pets at home. Yeah, we had a parrot that died right after, and we ended up taking it to the local vet. Turns out, we got our pneumonia from that damn parrot. Atypical viral pneumonia, of all things.
And as for you—if the medical field doesn't satisfy you—well, we all know why people go into it, and I don't think doctors are some special breed of humans. You should've known what you were signing up for and what you'd have to sacrifice.
It's like a baby doesn't ask if it's going to be born tomorrow morning or whatever. It just happens.
Doctors, seriously, come down from your high horses—especially you younger ones.

I actually remember hearing about several cases like that back in the 80s; it was almost like there was a plague of those sick birds.
The only good bird is the one you see on a roll of paper towels! 🧐
brrrrrr

@Brandon Newman95
Wait, you're saying it's a virus from a parrot? Are we sure it wasn't actually psittacosis we were dealing with all along?...

Kate Collins67 said:I don't work directly in the ER—my role is in the hospital proper—but I frequently have to pull shifts covering the emergency outpatient clinics. And let me tell you, those places can get absolutely slammed. If you’re looking for me and it doesn't look like chaos out front, try swinging by one of the three main units nearby: pediatric emergency, surgical emergency, or internal medicine. There are other specialized wings, obviously, but those are the ones where things actually get busy.

The first one is seriously chaotic, especially on Fridays when parents are dropping kids off before heading out for the weekend. I’ve actually been there with my own daughter because they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her, so we had standing orders to head straight to the ER the second her fever hit anything over 98.6, no matter the hour. So yeah, I've seen it firsthand!
But honestly, you also get parents who are just in a total panic, and you really have to show some empathy for that.
I've been to the second one a few times, and it wasn't a madhouse at all. The nurses there are great at filtering people—deciding who needs to stay and who can head home—and they don't pull any punches about it (though I haven't officially confirmed that)!
I haven't had much experience with the internal medicine one yet.

Kevin Garcia12 said:@Brandon Newman95
Wait, you're saying it's a virus from a parrot? Are we sure it wasn't actually psittacosis we were dealing with all along?...

It was some kind of atypical viral pneumonia—both my dad and I caught it, but my mom stayed fine. We took the parrot to a vet school somewhere back in '89, and under Dr. Peze-papig, the poor thing died within a few hours. Honestly, I’m a medical freak of nature; none of my illnesses ever follow the textbook rules.
They barely even caught my mononucleosis. If they hadn't transferred me from one hospital in Chicago over to the infectious disease ward—who knows what would've happened.
Then about three years ago, I picked up this weird virus—my GP was the only one who actually dug deep enough to look for those rare neurological issues (you know, the stuff people usually overlook). To this day, nobody has any clue what actually happened to me back then.

Kate Collins67 said:Well, get this—I am absolutely obligated to work for the state. Why? Because my education was tied to a binding service contract. If I quit, I lose everything I've worked for... so much for "free" education, huh?

Honestly, I'm not sure how you're obligated
I know some people currently doing their residency or specialized training, but I haven't heard of anyone being tied down like that!

jadesailor14 said:I actually remember hearing about several cases like that back in the 80s; it was almost like there was a plague of those sick birds.
The only good bird is the one you see on a roll of paper towels! 🧐
brrrrrr

Yeah, you're right, a bird in a role is the best. And man, it really was a plague.

jadesailor14 said:The first one is seriously chaotic, especially on Fridays when parents are dropping kids off before heading out for the weekend. I’ve actually been there with my own daughter because they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her, so we had standing orders to head straight to the ER the second her fever hit anything over 98.6, no matter the hour. So yeah, I've seen it firsthand!
But honestly, you also get parents who are just in a total panic, and you really have to show some empathy for that.
I've been to the second one a few times, and it wasn't a madhouse at all. The nurses there are great at filtering people—deciding who needs to stay and who can head home—and they don't pull any punches about it (though I haven't officially confirmed that)!
I haven't had much experience with the internal medicine one yet.

As for internal medicine—it really just depends on who you end up seeing. For me, I spent way too much time dealing with weird rashes on my legs caused by nothing more, nothing less, than Neurobion. Everyone was acting shocked, asking why it was making me so irritable and high-strung (if my primary care doctor recognizes me here, I am going to lose it next time I see him).😉

Neurobion?
Well, you really are one of a kind! 🤣

At the facility where I work, the nurses don't even have the authority to filter patients. Every single person who walks into the internal medicine clinic has to get an exam—it’s a direct order from the top brass...
If you get referred to internal medicine because of ear pain—which is obviously the wrong department, by the way—you still end up getting stuck with a full internal medicine exam, and naturally, you walk away without any actual solution to your problem....

Do some digging into those obligations before you jump in; for some people, if you don't handle things properly, you're looking at debt climbing to ten years or over a million dollars.

There are supposed to be some changes coming down the pipeline, but the big question is whether they're going to apply retroactively.