General Chat & Info Board

rustytinker3 said:... Choking is basically just applying leverage to the neck...

🙏

Now I'm totally convinced you're just pulling my leg!

briskjackal5 said:It’s like trolling, but you actually get played. 😁

- Briskjackal5 -

Man, I totally ate him alive.😬

My little buddy fixed it too—with that whole "choking is basically just a lever on the neck" thing👎

Jiu-jitsu covers standing combat—all kinds of strikes, takedowns, throws, and standing joint locks. Then there's ground fighting—armbars, leg locks, and chokes (my personal favorite, if you know what I mean)... plus defense against weapons like knives or sticks.

And yet, none of you self-proclaimed "martial arts experts" managed to tell me any of that.

Since Wing Chun isn't an option here in Los Angeles, this is my go-to sport.

David Lewis7, thanks for the info and the locations.

Paul King78 said:Look, I’m a total amateur when it comes to martial arts—Wikipedia and Google are pretty much my only sources of info right now. But Google isn't giving me the real scoop on what the scene is actually like in Los Angeles, so I figured I’d ask you guys. Out of all these self-proclaimed "masters" out there, who are the genuine experts teaching classes that you’d actually trust? I know the options aren't endless and most people just cycle through the same few styles. If I had my pick, I’d go with Muay Thai or Ninjutsu. Since I don't get to choose, I’d at least like to train under someone who truly knows their stuff. Are there actually any real deal instructors left?

If you happen to run into anyone teaching Ninjutsu in LA, please let me know.
I'm really interested.

What’s your take on Philipp Bayer's Wing Chun?

rustytinker3 said:Jiu-jitsu covers standing combat—all types of strikes (atemi), grabs, takedowns, throws, and standing submissions; ground fighting—arm and leg locks, chokes (my personal favorite, haha); defense against and use of cold weapons (knives, sticks)...

And yet, none of you self-proclaimed "martial arts experts" felt the need to correct me.

Check out the post above.🙂

PS, briskjackal5, you see how much we enjoy a good fail? Don't rob us of that pleasure.😁

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:What do you guys think about Philipp Bayer's Wing Chun?

Honestly, I have a lot of respect for him—he’s a massive enthusiast and despite his major setbacks and physical limitations, he just keeps showing up and training... hats off to him... 🙏 He was actually one of the first Americans to really connect with Wong and spend significant time learning from him... 👍 As for the specific question, I can't say much... mostly because I'm not entirely sure what constitutes "Philipp Bayer's Wing Chun" specifically... 😕 To be blunt, my experience is strictly limited to Grandmaster Ip Man's Wing Chun... 🙂

Ruggedfalcon2 said:First off, I have absolutely no clue what anyone could possibly mean by "Philipp Bayerov Wing Chun." 😕 To be honest, I’ve only ever really studied Yip Man’s Wing Chun. 🙂

Come on now, let's not sweat the small stuff. It’s true that everything traces back to Ip Man, but there's more to the story than that.
It’s common knowledge that everyone eventually adds their own little spin to things or just twists them to suit their own narrative.
It’s a specific way of being—whether it's leaning into the positive or sinking into the negative. Just in that sense.
He was thinking "Philipp Bayerov Wing Chun." I'm actually just starting my own training recently.
Just for your information—this comes from someone who’s been working over at Bayer for a few years now. =)
Yeah, thanks for the reply.

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:Come on now, let's not get bogged down in the tiny details... =) It’s true that everything traces back to Ip Man, but then again...
It’s common knowledge that everyone eventually adds their own little twist to things—or just interprets them through their own lens...
A specific way about them—whether they’re being positive or negative. Just in that sense...
He meant "Philipp Bayerov Wing Chun." I'm actually just starting my training recently...
Just so you know—I’ve got a buddy who’s been working over at Bayer for a few years now, so he knows the drill. Just some info... =)
Yeah, thanks for getting back to me...

Look, honestly—I'm not being nitpicky, I’m just simplifying things... you know, when someone adds their own little "flair" to it... 🙄 It happens often—either there isn't enough actual expertise or the opportunity to learn, or they just throw stuff in for pure marketing fluff... As far as I know, Bayer hasn't ever really fought for anything sincerely, so I'm not exactly convinced that what they "added" is actually effective or useful... You're probably from somewhere like New Jersey or the surrounding area... I know a guy around there who worked with P. Bayer a few times a year... 🙄 ...anyway, the main thing is that you're happy and content. 👍 It all really comes down to what you’re looking for in whatever skill or sport you're training... if it's just about recreation and hanging out with people, then I think you picked a good one... 🙂

ruggedfalcon2 said:Look, honestly, I’m not nitpicking here—I’m just simplifying things. It's about what happens when someone decides to add their own little "flair" to the mix. 🙄 It happens often because there’s either a lack of actual expertise or they just throw things in for marketing fluff. As far as I know, Bayer hasn't ever truly fought for anything, so I'm not exactly convinced that what he "added" is actually effective or useful. You're probably from somewhere like New Jersey or the surrounding area... I know a guy over there who works with P. Bayer a few times a year. 🙄 ...well, I suppose the bottom line is that you’re happy and satisfied. 👍 It all really boils down to what you’re looking for from the skill or sport you're training. If the goal is just recreation and hanging out with people, then I think you've made a solid choice. 🙂

Yeah, exactly. His name is Danijel. That's where I train. It’s true, I've been there a few times.
He’s been training at Bayer for a year now. He started three years ago, but he's been there almost every single day since.
It’s been about nine years now. Mostly, I put in two hours every single day—and they’re pretty intense.
Training sessions just to pass them off as some kind of casual recreation—at the start, that’s obviously where the focus lies.
Studying the theory, then immediately putting those elements into practice.
It starts with intense drilling—even some work on the dolls—and then moves into full sparring. It’s a pretty tough principle to live by.
Work. No holding back on the strikes, no skimping on the rest, and honestly? I love that about it. Also, every single...
Training’s wrapping up. We spent the last 20 minutes hitting the heavy bags—100kg and 50kg sets.
What's the point of focusing on those guys who just cling to the wall like they're trying to become part of the drywall? Or is this some kind of elaborate exercise involving a pole?
From about 10 to 12 feet away. There aren't many of us around—maybe three or four at most per session, if we're lucky. That's about it.
It allows for quite a bit of independent work, which is just a plus in my book.

It is quite rare that I find myself compelled to break my silence on these digital forums, but the current state of discourse has become so incredibly fragmented and shallow that I feel a sense of duty to provide some much-needed substance. One cannot simply skim the surface of these complex issues without expecting to drown in a sea of superficiality; it requires a certain level of intellectual rigor that seems to be vanishing from our modern social fabric. I recall an evening spent in a small library in downtown Chicago—a place where the air felt heavy with the weight of accumulated wisdom—and I realized then that true understanding isn't found in the quick jab of a headline or the frantic pace of a trending topic. It is found in the slow, methodical deconstruction of arguments. We have become a society obsessed with the immediate, the loud, and the unrefined. We react before we reflect, and in doing so, we lose the nuance that separates a meaningful perspective from mere noise. There is a profound difference between having an opinion and possessing an insight. An opinion is often just a defensive crouch, a way to signal one's allegiance to a particular tribe. But an insight? That requires you to stand alone, to weigh the evidence with a steady hand, and to accept the discomfort of being wrong. If we are to move forward as a coherent culture, we must reclaim that capacity for deliberation. We must stop treating every disagreement as a battlefield and start treating it as a classroom. It may be a tedious process, certainly, but it is the only one worth undertaking. kaže:
To be perfectly honest, I have a profound amount of respect for him. He’s a massive enthusiast, a true devotee to the craft, and despite facing such significant misfortune and physical setbacks, he remains incredibly persistent. Watching him continue to train with that level of grit and determination—well, you really have to hand it to him. It’s truly commendable. 🙏 The very first European I ever encountered was someone who introduced me to Wonga, and honestly, I ended up spending an incredible amount of my time tangled up in their business. 👍 To be perfectly honest, I’m hesitant to give a direct answer to that question... primarily because I have absolutely no idea what on earth "Philipp Bayerov Wing Chun" is supposed to signify. 😕 To be perfectly honest, my exposure to the martial arts world has been quite limited; I have only ever truly studied Wing Chun under the lineage of Grandmaster Yip Man. 🙂

There is one glaring inconsistency here that I just can't wrap my head around. If you’re going to argue that there is no such thing as Leung Ting Wing Chun, or Wong Wing Chun, or Bayer Wing Chun—basically sweeping all those variations under the rug—then what exactly is the logic behind your stance? By that same standard, how can you claim that Yip Man Wing Chun actually exists while dismissing everything else as invalid? It doesn't follow.

dustywolf52 said:There’s one glaring inconsistency here. If you’re claiming there’s no such thing as Leung Ting Wing Chun, Wong Wing Chun, or Bayer Wing Chun—whatever else—then by what logic do you suddenly decide Yip Man Wing Chun actually exists?

Look, let me draw a parallel to BJJ for a second—people go around saying "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" or "Machado Jiu-Jitsu," etc., but at the end of the day, it’s all just plain old Jiu-Jitsu.

dustywolf52 said:There’s one thing I don't get. If you're claiming there's no such thing as Leung Ting Wing Chun, Wong Wing Chun, or Bayer Wing Chun, then what's the logic behind saying Yip Man Wing Chun exists while the others don't?

He's probably just trying to say that Yip Man was the primary figure responsible for passing everything down.
Basically, he's implying everything traces back to him. But honestly, I don't see why we couldn't
use terms like Leung Ting Wing Chun, Wong Wing Chun, or Emin Boztepe Wing Chun. It's almost certain
that there are distinct differences in methodology and approach among those three styles. By attributing
everything solely to Yip Man's Wing Chun, you aren't getting the full picture of what's actually being discussed.

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:Yeah, exactly—his name is Danijel, and he's the one I train with. It's true, happened a few times...
He trains at Bayer annually—started doing it about three years ago—and he’s been there for almost every session since...
For the last 9 years... mostly just putting in about two hours every single day—pretty intense sessions, really...
Training sessions—if they’re going to work, they need to feel like pure recreation at first. That focus is everything right at the start...
Studying the theory, then jumping straight into practicing those elements on the job...
Went through intense sparring—started with dolls, then moved into full contact sessions. It’s pretty hardcore stuff...
Work, no holding back on the strikes or the rest—and I dig that. Also, every...
Finishing up training—spent about 20 minutes hitting the bags, both the 100kg and the 50kg ones...
Okay, focus on them—and those guys carrying the heavy sacks—getting themselves attached to the wall, or maybe just working with a pole...
About 3-4 meters away. Not many people around—maybe 3 or 4 at most per session, so yeah... that's about it.
It allows for a lot of independent work—which is a huge plus in my book...

Glad to hear you're happy with everything... 🙂

dustywolf52 said:There’s one thing that doesn't quite add up. If you're claiming there's no such thing as Leung Ting Wing Chun, Wong Wing Chun, or Bayer Wing Chun... what's the logic behind saying Yip Man Wing Chun exists while all those others don't?

The logic is pretty simple—all the styles you listed actually fall under the broader umbrella of the Yip Man lineage. Basically, Yip Man's version of Wing Chun is its own specific thing, and it's quite distinct from the other branches... For instance, some of the core alternative Wing Chun styles include:
-Gu Lao Wing Chun
-Yuen Kay-San Wing Chun
-Pan Nam Wing Chun
-Pao Fa Lien Wing Chun
-Nanyang Wing Chun
-Hung Suen Wing Chun
-Jee Shim Wing Chun
-Vietnamese Wing Chun
-Malaysian Wing Chun
-Fujian Wing Chun
-Yiu Kai Wing Chun
-Pien San Wing Chun
-Hung Suen Hay Ban Wing Chun, and so on...

Anyway, I already covered this whole thing over on my blog... 😉

wanderingridge said:Yeah, if you look at the BJJ connection—people talk about Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, Machado Jiu-Jitsu, and so on... but honestly, it’s all just Jiu-Jitsu.

That comparison only really holds up if we're talking about specific branches like Leung Ting, P. Bayer, or Wong styles... but within the broader umbrella of Wing Chun, there are massive distinctions. For instance, when I was watching a clip of Pien San Wing Chun online, I could barely find any connection to what I knew—it felt totally different. In that sense, the variations are far too deep to just lump everything under one "Wing Chun" label... by the way, I didn't make this distinction up; it's actually recognized in the martial arts community. Everyone else (specifically those following the Yip Man lineage) is basically just doing marketing—they
create these sub-names just to stand out a bit more...🙄

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:maybe they’re implying Yip Man was the primary driver behind passing down the knowledge
meaning everything traces back to him—but I also don't see why we couldn't--as you put it--
use Leung Ting's Wing Chun, Wong's, or even Emin Boztepe's... for sure
there's definitely a difference in methodology and approach among those three, and just attributing it all to
Yip Man's version doesn't give a clear picture of what's actually being expressed

Nah, I'm not aiming for that... I wrote what I'm aiming at... the split between Leung Ting, Wong, Bayer, and so on. Most Wing Chun is just selling smoke to naive people... if that's your cup of tea, fine by me... 👍 btw, alright, you've actually piqued my interest now... tell me then, what makes that "your" P. Bayer Wing Chun stand out? Do you guys have techniques that aren't found within standard Yip Man Wing Chun? Is there a real difference in how you approach things compared to Yip Man's traditional methodology? I'm genuinely curious...🙂

ruggedfalcon2 said:No, that’s not what I meant... I actually stated my aim clearly... the distinction between Leung Ting, Wong, Bayer, and so on. Honestly, most "Wing Chun" out there is just selling smoke to the naive... but hey, if someone wants to buy into it, far be it from me to stop them... 👍 By the way, alright, you’ve actually piqued my interest now... tell me, what exactly makes this "your" P. Bayer Wing Chun stand out? Do you guys possess specific techniques that remain unknown within the standard Yip Man Wing Chun lineage? Is there a fundamental difference in your approach or methodology compared to the traditional methods established by Yip Man himself? I am genuinely curious to hear how you justify the distinction. 🙂

I find myself in agreement (including with the points made in the previous posts).👍.

ruggedfalcon2 said:Nah, that’s not what I meant... I was clarifying my point... about how people split things up into Leung Ting, Wong, Bayer, and so on. Honestly, Wing Chun feels like selling smoke to amateurs—but hey, if that's your thing, go for it... btw, you've actually piqued my interest now... tell me, what makes this "your" P. Bayer Wing Chun stand out? Do you guys have specific techniques that aren't part of the standard Yip Man lineage? Is there a real difference in how you approach the training compared to Yip Man’s traditional methodology? Now I'm genuinely curious... 👍 🙂

So, LNP20? 🙂 😉