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Home › Society › Politics › War in Ukraine › Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Started by Charles Ross3 · · 👁 435 views · 9.2K replies

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Participants Charles Ross3rowdytiger13electrichawk94nimblemoose2Noah Ward2George Robinson43Larry Wilson25Larry Walker24Amanda Allen4Noah Sanchez2Paul Thomas46Jessica Peterson2Nancy Gomez26Nathan Evans78William Anderson5electricsurfer47gentlestag15wiredseal7Thomas Nelson25Donna Harris11Nicholas WatsonJack Kelly5Carol Johnson21Kate Cook27 …
darkdriver darkdriver Active Member
153 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2461 ·
Timothy Williams5 said:darkdriver, you might want to dial back the talk about kilotons and the resulting population surges. It all feels a bit much—borderline pathological, if we’re being honest.
A civilized society doesn't operate on that kind of logic.

The Iranian MVP claims they aren't supplying UAVs to Russia.

https://mind.ua/news/20244314-v-iran...vedennya-vijni
https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/202...44185-P3-S3-T1

Iran maintains that it hasn't provided Russian Federation combat unmanned aircraft (UAV) to be used in the war against Ukraine.
This was stated by Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Abdollahian during an interview with La Repubblica.

According to him, Iran avoids any actions that could trigger further escalation in Ukraine and will not be delivering combat UAVs to Russia.

Abdollahian noted that cooperation between Iran and Russia dates back to before the war in Ukraine began, and there haven't been any substantive changes to that dynamic recently.
“We have various forms of cooperation with Russia, particularly in defense, but we aren't aiding either side in the conflict because we believe the war needs to end.”


To me, this looks like leverage being applied toward the Russians, who are currently offering unplanned energy surpluses to Iranian buyers in Asia.
Timothy Williams5 Timothy Williams5 Regular
325 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2462 ·
Vyacheslav Gladkov, the governor of the Russian region of Belgorod, is making the bold claim that certain residents are intentionally damaging their own homes just to score free repairs from the government, which is currently footing the bill for shelling victims.
This was his cynical response to a question posed by a Russian woman regarding compensation for damaged furniture, televisions, and refrigerators. According to him, there have already been instances where locals have sabotaged their own property, allegedly smashing windows and tiles themselves.

“We are already seeing that, unfortunately, some people are starting to view this situation as an opportunity to get upgrades at someone else's expense—swapping out windows for plastic ones, breaking tiles, or shattering windows on purpose.”
He further asserted that all claims regarding property damage will be evaluated "based on family income." The governor pointed to "massive estates with swimming pools" as an example, noting that in those specific cases, he wouldn't be able to provide any assistance for reconstruction.
https://theins.ru/news/253126
Charles Chase13 Charles Chase13 Newcomer
9 messages
joined Jul 2022
#2463 ·
darkdriver said:I don't get how you're explaining Hiroshima and Nagasaki then, since those didn't turn into nuclear deserts, and the Japanese people didn't spend decades just waiting around to rebuild.
After the bomb, the population of Hiroshima dropped from over 400,000 to under 140,000, but by the early '50s, the city was already back up to over 400,000 people.

My point is that Japan is extremely land-constrained and densely populated. Hiroshima and Nagasaki underwent decontamination processes to clear out radioactive material, and the half-life of most radioactive particles involved was relatively short. Furthermore, because those were airbursts designed for maximum destruction, much of the fallout was dispersed high into the atmosphere. Within a few weeks, radiation levels dropped significantly, aided by a typhoon that effectively washed the ground. In Japan, space is at a premium; every square inch is utilized, so repopulating a devastated city wasn't an impossible feat. It's also worth noting that the USA played a significant role in Japan's recovery during an era of peace and economic rebuilding—setting aside Cold War tensions and proxy conflicts. In the West, we don't encounter these scenarios often, and it is typically easier (and cheaper) to simply abandon a city depending on the scale of the damage. You have all the space you need.

However, one or two bombs aren't the real issue here; the political fallout of such an act far outweighs the physical destruction and contamination. The real nightmare is a global nuclear war, where massive amounts of radioactive material are released into the atmosphere and major infrastructure in various nations is leveled, making a quick recovery impossible. Ultimately, one of the doctrines for the later stages of a general nuclear conflict involves specifically targeting civilian centers and infrastructure to cripple an opponent's ability to recover—be it militarily, economically, or demographically.

The sequence of events generally unfolds like this: one side attacks, the other responds with equal force, then comes a phase where both sides strike every military target they can find. Finally, in the last stage, they intentionally target civilians and cities to ensure long-term incapacitation of the enemy—essentially knocking them "out of the game" for the long haul. In Western military and intelligence circles, this is known as a "countervalue plan."

Regardless, this is incredibly grim subject matter. It feels morbid to discuss it so casually, like some idle chatter over drinks at a bar. It is easy to toss numbers around from the comfort of an armchair, but experiencing something like that is a different reality entirely.
Anthony Perez9 Anthony Perez9 Regular
311 messages
joined Apr 2019
#2464 ·
Timothy Williams5 said:Vyacheslav Gladkov, the governor of the Russian region of Belgorod, is making the bold claim that certain residents are intentionally damaging their own homes just to score free repairs from the government, which is currently footing the bill for shelling victims.
This was his cynical response to a question posed by a Russian woman regarding compensation for damaged furniture, televisions, and refrigerators. According to him, there have already been instances where locals have sabotaged their own property, allegedly smashing windows and tiles themselves.

“We are already seeing that, unfortunately, some people are starting to view this situation as an opportunity to get upgrades at someone else's expense—swapping out windows for plastic ones, breaking tiles, or shattering windows on purpose.”
He further asserted that all claims regarding property damage will be evaluated "based on family income." The governor pointed to "massive estates with swimming pools" as an example, noting that in those specific cases, he wouldn't be able to provide any assistance for reconstruction.
https://theins.ru/news/253126

theins.ru/news

The "Governor of the Belgorod region" ... is basically just full of crap so the state doesn't have to pay for repairs.
Yeah, because people are definitely ripping up their own tiles and smashing their own windows for fun. Sure.
Anthony Perez9 Anthony Perez9 Regular
311 messages
joined Apr 2019
#2465 ·
Timothy Williams5 said:darkdriver, you might want to dial back the talk about kilotons and the resulting population surges. It all feels a bit much—borderline pathological, if we’re being honest.
A civilized society doesn't operate on that kind of logic.

The Iranian MVP claims they aren't supplying UAVs to Russia.

https://mind.ua/news/20244314-v-iran...vedennya-vijni
https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/202...44185-P3-S3-T1

Iran maintains that it hasn't provided Russian Federation combat unmanned aircraft (UAV) to be used in the war against Ukraine.
This was stated by Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Abdollahian during an interview with La Repubblica.

According to him, Iran avoids any actions that could trigger further escalation in Ukraine and will not be delivering combat UAVs to Russia.

Abdollahian noted that cooperation between Iran and Russia dates back to before the war in Ukraine began, and there haven't been any substantive changes to that dynamic recently.
“We have various forms of cooperation with Russia, particularly in defense, but we aren't aiding either side in the conflict because we believe the war needs to end.”


To me, this looks like leverage being applied toward the Russians, who are currently offering unplanned energy surpluses to Iranian buyers in Asia.

If they hadn't been delivering before.

Iranian Minister: "I think we're looking at a whole different problem now: Some Western nations, including the US, are out here cranking out weapons just to try and offload them on someone else. We're trying to stay out of it. Any moves being made to actually fix this? Whatever. "It's just going to trigger an escalation," Abdollahian said.

It basically just clears the way for them to actually deliver.

Look, nobody actually claimed they'd already delivered the drones.

Looks like someone's trying to pull some strings here. The Russians are basically just offloading their unplanned energy surplus onto Iranian buyers in Asia right now.

Probably...
Timothy Williams5 Timothy Williams5 Regular
325 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2466 ·
Anthony Perez9 said:theins.ru/news

The "Governor of the Belgorod region" ... is basically just full of crap so the state doesn't have to pay for repairs.
Yeah, because people are definitely ripping up their own tiles and smashing their own windows for fun. Sure.

Sure it is.
You haul in a washing machine, a toilet, a TV, and a mattress from Ukraine, then suddenly you're fixing windows, a new facade, and roofing with nothing but a hammer.
It's easy enough to furnish an apartment with a mix of imported goods and local stuff.
Timothy Williams5 Timothy Williams5 Regular
325 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2467 ·
Anthony Perez9 said:If they hadn't been delivering before.

Iranian Minister: "I think we're looking at a whole different problem now: Some Western nations, including the US, are out here cranking out weapons just to try and offload them on someone else. We're trying to stay out of it. Any moves being made to actually fix this? Whatever. "It's just going to trigger an escalation," Abdollahian said.

It basically just clears the way for them to actually deliver.

Look, nobody actually claimed they'd already delivered the drones.

Looks like someone's trying to pull some strings here. The Russians are basically just offloading their unplanned energy surplus onto Iranian buyers in Asia right now.

Probably...

If you really sit back and think about it, there isn't much logic in an Iranian MVP claiming they haven't been supplying drones to Russia all along, especially when they're only making those denials now as a direct response to the accusations that they are currently doing exactly that.

Evo tekst iz ukr. izvora, na latinici:

Iran is maintaining its stance that it hasn't supplied any combat UAVs to Russia for use in the war against Ukraine.

Prijevod:
Iran is maintaining its stance that it hasn't supplied any Russian Federation combat unmanned aircraft to support the ongoing war in Ukraine.

So, here it is: It wasn't delivered.
It wasn't being delivered before.

Edit: Honestly, when I look at things written in the Latin alphabet, you can pretty much intuit the meaning of almost every single word. 🙂
Kevin Murphy7 Kevin Murphy7 Member
23 messages
joined Feb 2022
#2468 ·
Charles Chase13 said:My point is that Japan is extremely land-constrained and densely populated. Hiroshima and Nagasaki underwent decontamination processes to clear out radioactive material, and the half-life of most radioactive particles involved was relatively short. Furthermore, because those were airbursts designed for maximum destruction, much of the fallout was dispersed high into the atmosphere. Within a few weeks, radiation levels dropped significantly, aided by a typhoon that effectively washed the ground. In Japan, space is at a premium; every square inch is utilized, so repopulating a devastated city wasn't an impossible feat. It's also worth noting that the USA played a significant role in Japan's recovery during an era of peace and economic rebuilding—setting aside Cold War tensions and proxy conflicts. In the West, we don't encounter these scenarios often, and it is typically easier (and cheaper) to simply abandon a city depending on the scale of the damage. You have all the space you need.

However, one or two bombs aren't the real issue here; the political fallout of such an act far outweighs the physical destruction and contamination. The real nightmare is a global nuclear war, where massive amounts of radioactive material are released into the atmosphere and major infrastructure in various nations is leveled, making a quick recovery impossible. Ultimately, one of the doctrines for the later stages of a general nuclear conflict involves specifically targeting civilian centers and infrastructure to cripple an opponent's ability to recover—be it militarily, economically, or demographically.

The sequence of events generally unfolds like this: one side attacks, the other responds with equal force, then comes a phase where both sides strike every military target they can find. Finally, in the last stage, they intentionally target civilians and cities to ensure long-term incapacitation of the enemy—essentially knocking them "out of the game" for the long haul. In Western military and intelligence circles, this is known as a "countervalue plan."

Regardless, this is incredibly grim subject matter. It feels morbid to discuss it so casually, like some idle chatter over drinks at a bar. It is easy to toss numbers around from the comfort of an armchair, but experiencing something like that is a different reality entirely.

Look, man, if Russia dropped a nuke on Ukraine right now,
which other country would actually be willing to hit Russia back with the same level of force?

None of them.
analogbear5 analogbear5 Regular
571 messages
joined Aug 2019
#2469 ·
Kevin Murphy7 said:Look, man, if Russia dropped a nuke on Ukraine right now,
which other country would actually be willing to hit Russia back with the same level of force?

None of them.

And how exactly would they even deliver a nuclear warhead to them?
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#2470 ·
Kevin Murphy7 said:Look, man, if Russia dropped a nuke on Ukraine right now,
which other country would actually be willing to hit Russia back with the same level of force?

None of them.

The USA. They’ve got a much bigger stick, and Vladimir knows it all too well.
Justin Mendoza16 Justin Mendoza16 Active Member
118 messages
joined Jan 2023
#2471 ·
Kevin Murphy7 said:Look, man, if Russia dropped a nuke on Ukraine right now,
which other country would actually be willing to hit Russia back with the same level of force?

None of them.

🙂like, where would they even launch from? some random hangar? just let them try touching a silo and they'll get an instant response...🤦

unless you think they're gonna sneak 'em out on a tractor or something...🤣
Nancy Gomez26 Nancy Gomez26 Regular
787 messages
joined Jan 2018
#2472 ·
Kevin Murphy7 said:Look, man, if Russia dropped a nuke on Ukraine right now,
which other country would actually be willing to hit Russia back with the same level of force?

None of them.

If a woman had balls, she'd be a man.
Melissa Rivera5 Melissa Rivera5 Regular
432 messages
joined Jun 2024
#2473 ·
Is it just me, or does this whole obsession with nuclear strikes feel super morbid? Like, we’re talking about millions of Ukrainians dying, yet some people act like we're just discussing spraying DDT to kill a few mosquitoes. It's weird how part of the group acts like it's no big deal, almost like more casualties won't matter and there won't be any fallout at all.

Maybe everyone could just chill out a little bit. I mean, there's basically zero chance that dropping an atomic bomb wouldn't end up being a total disaster for Putin, if not for the entire global order.
darkdriver darkdriver Active Member
153 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2474 ·
Christian Torres3 said:The USA. They’ve got a much bigger stick, and Vladimir knows it all too well.

As for their nuclear stuff?
Well, they're basically sitting on five nukes ready to go.
But honestly, even without that, we'd totally smoke them conventionally.
Anthony Hill5 Anthony Hill5 Regular
379 messages
joined May 2024
#2475 ·
electricstag9 said:They’re living the high life, clearly. These nuclear threats are nothing more than temper tantrums from toddlers in a sandbox. Honestly, they and their future generations should just focus on burning through those massive piles of cash they’ve managed to hoard.

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/st...6256268222465?
The only thing Zaharov is actually a danger to is the supply of strawberries and vodka; she’s doing a fantastic job of de-Nazifying and demilitarizing her own people.

If you watch this video, it becomes glaringly obvious that the woman is completely unhinged. One shouldn't even wait for her to start speaking to see the instability there.
darkdriver darkdriver Active Member
153 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2476 ·
Kevin Murphy7 said:Look, man, if Russia dropped a nuke on Ukraine right now,
which other country would actually be willing to hit Russia back with the same level of force?

None of them.

Not a single one.
The silos and subs might be on high alert, I guess, but yeah... that's pretty much it.
darkdriver darkdriver Active Member
153 messages
joined Jun 2022
#2477 ·
Justin Mendoza16 said:🙂like, where would they even launch from? some random hangar? just let them try touching a silo and they'll get an instant response...🤦

unless you think they're gonna sneak 'em out on a tractor or something...🤣

Man, I'd give anything to be 18 again.
Everything feels so simple when you're that age—it's actually kind of crazy.
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#2478 ·
darkdriver said:Not a single one.
The silos and subs might be on high alert, I guess, but yeah... that's pretty much it.

Plus, with two Arleigh Burke destroyers constantly patrolling the Baltic Sea, Kaliningrad would be absolutely leveled. And what then? Is Uncle Vova just going to order a nuclear holocaust?
Melissa Rivera5 Melissa Rivera5 Regular
432 messages
joined Jun 2024
#2479 ·
The US would totally be down for it, but they'd need a few more hands on deck to actually pull it off. Then again, maybe that alone would be enough of a reason for NATO to step into the fray. I mean, a bomb is one thing, but dealing with a radioactive cloud? That's a whole different beast. Especially if the wind decides to blow all that stuff right over toward people in Russia 🙂
Christian Torres3 Christian Torres3 Regular
604 messages
joined Sep 2014
#2480 ·
Melissa Rivera5 said:The US would totally be down for it, but they'd need a few more hands on deck to actually pull it off. Then again, maybe that alone would be enough of a reason for NATO to step into the fray. I mean, a bomb is one thing, but dealing with a radioactive cloud? That's a whole different beast. Especially if the wind decides to blow all that stuff right over toward people in Russia 🙂

If Uncle Sam wasn't holding him back, Vlad would have dropped tactical nukes by now.

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