Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Christian Torres3 said:Plus, with two Arleigh Burke destroyers constantly patrolling the Baltic Sea, Kaliningrad would be absolutely leveled. And what then? Is Uncle Vova just going to order a nuclear holocaust?

I mean, if we're talking about MAD, does it even matter where the ABs are located?
Okay, maybe for response time, sure—but honestly, banking on someone being able to wipe out an entire retaliatory capability with one single first strike is just... insane.
The Dukes and their Bulavas carry way more MIRVs than any Western ICBM—and that’s not even counting the SLBMs.

darkdriver said:I mean, if we're talking about MAD, does it even matter where the ABs are located?
Okay, maybe for response time, sure—but honestly, banking on someone being able to wipe out an entire retaliatory capability with one single first strike is just... insane.
The Dukes and their Bulavas carry way more MIRVs than any Western ICBM—and that’s not even counting the SLBMs.

We aren't talking, you're just lecturing.

So, Vlad dropped tactical weapons in Ukraine while NATO leveled Kaliningrad with conventional force. Are you actually suggesting Vlad would dive headfirst into a MAD scenario?

Christian Torres3 said:We aren't talking, you're just lecturing.

So, Vlad dropped tactical weapons in Ukraine while NATO leveled Kaliningrad with conventional force. Are you actually suggesting Vlad would dive headfirst into a MAD scenario?

Okay, so now we're talking about leveling Kaliningrad?
Like, in what parallel universe is that even happening?
No way—that’s just your own opinion or some random assumption you've made.

darkdriver said:Okay, so now we're talking about leveling Kaliningrad?
Like, in what parallel universe is that even happening?
No way—that’s just your own opinion or some random assumption you've made.

I'm over here trying to have an actual discussion while you're just busy acting like a genius. Have fun with that.

Christian Torres3 said:We aren't talking, you're just lecturing.

So, Vlad dropped tactical weapons in Ukraine while NATO leveled Kaliningrad with conventional force. Are you actually suggesting Vlad would dive headfirst into a MAD scenario?

Christian Torres3 said:I'm over here trying to have an actual discussion while you're just busy acting like a genius. Have fun with that.

I'm down—I've got a cold, capitalist Heineken right here waiting for me.
Cheers!

darkdriver said:I'm down—I've got a cold, capitalist Heineken right here waiting for me.
Cheers!

I bet you're only buying it because of the red star.

Melissa Rivera5 said:Is it just me, or does this whole obsession with nuclear strikes feel super morbid? Like, we’re talking about millions of Ukrainians dying, yet some people act like we're just discussing spraying DDT to kill a few mosquitoes. It's weird how part of the group acts like it's no big deal, almost like more casualties won't matter and there won't be any fallout at all.

Maybe everyone could just chill out a little bit. I mean, there's basically zero chance that dropping an atomic bomb wouldn't end up being a total disaster for Putin, if not for the entire global order.

Of course Putin won't pull that trigger. Regardless of his character, he isn't going to dig himself into an even deeper hole. He’s already buried himself deep enough and made his life complicated enough—and he's likely quite aware of that now. These narratives are purely for domestic consumption. It's their version of "we have the big stick," regardless of the fact that they haven't even mastered the conventional conflict they stumbled into. Domestically, you sharpen the rhetoric solely to prevent people from asking: how many of our own have died in this special operation? By framing it as a global threat involving nuclear weapons, the failure of the special operation and the unnecessary loss of life don't look nearly as grim—because, theoretically, things could always be much worse.

Putin is the kind of guy who sent his own soldiers straight into Chernobyl and ordered them to bury it; he wouldn't think twice about dropping tactical nukes on Ukrainians if there wasn't someone else waiting to beat him senseless.

Nancy Gomez26 said:Of course Putin won't pull that trigger. Regardless of his character, he isn't going to dig himself into an even deeper hole. He’s already buried himself deep enough and made his life complicated enough—and he's likely quite aware of that now. These narratives are purely for domestic consumption. It's their version of "we have the big stick," regardless of the fact that they haven't even mastered the conventional conflict they stumbled into. Domestically, you sharpen the rhetoric solely to prevent people from asking: how many of our own have died in this special operation? By framing it as a global threat involving nuclear weapons, the failure of the special operation and the unnecessary loss of life don't look nearly as grim—because, theoretically, things could always be much worse.

And honestly, it's not just that. Since he didn't call this a military operation but instead used the term "special," it would imply that during an official time of peace, Vladimir Putin would just drop tactical nukes on a nation he claims are Russians in denial. I mean, he'd basically end up killing millions of his own people while technically not being at war. That would officially make him one of the biggest mass murderers in human history.

We're talking about a military that basically crowdsources tools to fix planes and takes its vehicles to local civilian mechanics—and then tries to sue them if they won't help.

Kevin Murphy7 said:Look, man, if Russia dropped a nuke on Ukraine right now,
which other country would actually be willing to hit Russia back with the same level of force?

None of them.

Obviously not. But then again, Russia would end up totally isolated from the rest of the world.
We're talking everyone from China to India being completely done with them...

More nuclear talk
If it isn't some teddy bear's errand boy, it’s a secretary throwing a tantrum
Everyone's just fed up at this point

I'm reading that Russians are dying for a vacation and some travel out West.
Putin really screwed them over

God forbid anyone actually drops an atomic weapon—of any kind—on Ukraine.
The US would be wiped off the map before they could even blink, let alone retaliate.
That whole Chernobyl theory probably holds about as much water as those stories about dead soldiers on Snake Island miraculously coming back to life after being wiped out.
Apparently, Vladimir Putin is terminally ill—like, cancer is eating him alive just like how the Republican Party guts the federal budget.
But, I don't know, something feels weird to me... the media isn't really pushing those stories about his illnesses anymore. Like, those articles have just totally vanished.
Did he suddenly make a miraculous recovery, or was the whole thing just fake news and propaganda to begin with?

Does dropping a single tactical nuke on Kyiv actually "solve the problem" locally—targeting the seats of power like the White House, the President, or the Pentagon?

You make a quick speech at the UN Security Council, point a finger to "find someone to blame," and call it an attempt to prevent escalation. You could just shell Kaliningrad or launch some conventional strikes instead...

In my view, Putin is crazy enough to pull the trigger... especially since time is running out...

There isn't any "necessary" symmetry in threat levels regarding a Western nuclear response if Russ uses nukes in Ukraine. Why would Americans even use them? What exactly was attacked!?

It’s a grim situation...

dustytiger8 said:Does dropping a single tactical nuke on Kyiv actually "solve the problem" locally—targeting the seats of power like the White House, the President, or the Pentagon?

You make a quick speech at the UN Security Council, point a finger to "find someone to blame," and call it an attempt to prevent escalation. You could just shell Kaliningrad or launch some conventional strikes instead...

In my view, Putin is crazy enough to pull the trigger... especially since time is running out...

There isn't any "necessary" symmetry in threat levels regarding a Western nuclear response if Russ uses nukes in Ukraine. Why would Americans even use them? What exactly was attacked!?

It’s a grim situation...

Honestly, nobody is going to buy some story about a "accidental" tactical strike on Kyiv, even if it actually was an accident (which, I guess, would be the easiest excuse to make, because it implies it could have happened anywhere if there wasn't a war going on).

Plus, Americans have proven they’re incredibly good at listening to what Russia is up to.

dustytiger8 said:Does dropping a single tactical nuke on Kyiv actually "solve the problem" locally—targeting the seats of power like the White House, the President, or the Pentagon?

You make a quick speech at the UN Security Council, point a finger to "find someone to blame," and call it an attempt to prevent escalation. You could just shell Kaliningrad or launch some conventional strikes instead...

In my view, Putin is crazy enough to pull the trigger... especially since time is running out...

There isn't any "necessary" symmetry in threat levels regarding a Western nuclear response if Russ uses nukes in Ukraine. Why would Americans even use them? What exactly was attacked!?

It’s a grim situation...

👍
You're definitely not alone in thinking that.

Melissa Rivera5 said:Honestly, nobody is going to buy some story about a "accidental" tactical strike on Kyiv, even if it actually was an accident (which, I guess, would be the easiest excuse to make, because it implies it could have happened anywhere if there wasn't a war going on).

And who exactly is supposed to be buying this? Who even has the credibility to make such claims?

Is Ukraine under the US nuclear umbrella? On what basis?

Stop bringing up Putin and nuclear retaliation every five minutes without any actual context.

In an asymmetric nuclear standoff, Putin holds the upper hand. That is why US aid to Ukraine is being dripped out in increments rather than being unconditional. It is also likely why you see so much involvement from the Englishman; Americans clearly prefer to stay hands-off when possible.

Interesting situation.

darkdriver said:God forbid anyone actually drops an atomic weapon—of any kind—on Ukraine.
The US would be wiped off the map before they could even blink, let alone retaliate.
That whole Chernobyl theory probably holds about as much water as those stories about dead soldiers on Snake Island miraculously coming back to life after being wiped out.
Apparently, Vladimir Putin is terminally ill—like, cancer is eating him alive just like how the Republican Party guts the federal budget.
But, I don't know, something feels weird to me... the media isn't really pushing those stories about his illnesses anymore. Like, those articles have just totally vanished.
Did he suddenly make a miraculous recovery, or was the whole thing just fake news and propaganda to begin with?

Look, there's one thing: media propaganda where they spin whatever story they want, and then there's the reality of Vladimir Putin telling the entire world that the West is just manufacturing excuses to attack Ukraine.
Basically, anything coming out of his mouth since the invasion started is either a lie or pure propaganda.

Meteorologists are saying if Ukraine pulls the trigger on a nuke, the fallout would mostly drift north—straight into Russia.
The separatists would get absolutely blasted.

Where did she go after Chernobyl!?