Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Charles Ross3 · 2022-06-16T22:16:53+00:00

Links to the previous installments of this thread: Part One Part Two Part Three Part Four Please be sure to follow the Politics Subforum Rules.

Jesse Sanchez4 Member

39 messages
joined Jul 2022

#3401 · Jul 31, 2022

Tretyak currently has two separate threads going where they've translated the interview with General Kryvonos regarding how this war actually kicked off.

The first one can be found here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1553149229664714753

And the second one is over here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1553419931894648832

We’re looking at a third installment arriving later today, which will eventually wrap everything up over at Dmitri's site, wartranslated.com.

brightheron64 Regular

408 messages
joined Apr 2016

#3402 · Jul 31, 2022

Christian Torres3 said:Aren't you actually embarrassed to be taking the Russ's side like this?

https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/...2ky8hvzGnf-BiA

https://twitter.com/avalaina/status/...2ky8hvzGnf-BiA

That isn't "taking sides" at all; this is war, and honestly, shit happens...

By the way, I’m actually curious to hear what you think away from the chaos of Twitter—how exactly are the Russ supposed to have killed those prisoners? Did they plant a bomb, launch a missile, set them on fire...?

James Phillips92 Active Member

216 messages
joined Aug 2013

#3403 · Jul 31, 2022

brightheron64 said:It looks like friendly fire, or perhaps just a target that was misidentified from the start...

Murphy's Military Laws
- The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

So, friendly fire that somehow only hits prisoners but leaves their guards untouched? Are you actually being serious here, or is there some other motive behind this?

goldenowl73 Active Member

206 messages
joined Dec 2005

#3404 · Jul 31, 2022

Man, I just heard some absolutely devastating news today about one of the biggest grain moguls in Ukraine. This 74-year-old businessman, Vadaturisky, was killed along with his wife when a missile hit their home. It’s honestly such a tragedy because, let's be real, the guy had more than enough wealth and connections to have legally relocated anywhere else in the world if he wanted to. It really hits home how it feels like only the folks struggling to make ends meet get caught in the crossfire, which is just a heartbreakingly common reality in times like these. He lost everything today over in Mykolaiv.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/31/7361154/

Benjamin Taylor6 Regular

577 messages
joined Apr 2017

#3405 · Jul 31, 2022

brightheron64 said:That isn't "taking sides" at all; this is war, and honestly, shit happens...

By the way, I’m actually curious to hear what you think away from the chaos of Twitter—how exactly are the Russ supposed to have killed those prisoners? Did they plant a bomb, launch a missile, set them on fire...?

Look, there is absolutely nothing difficult about firing a Grad rocket launcher from two kilometers away. At that distance, you're going to hit everything within a 300-meter radius. You find a group of shady, highly precise operators, aim over the city toward the front lines, and the rockets land just a few miles from where they were launched. And before all that, you make sure to sound the alarm so every civilian clears out to their shelters—just to ensure there aren't any "unplanned" videos being recorded.

Richard Wilson4 Veteran

2K messages
joined Sep 2009

#3406 · Jul 31, 2022

Is this really the first time we've seen Ukrainians hitting Sevastopol?

brightheron64 Regular

408 messages
joined Apr 2016

#3407 · Jul 31, 2022

Benjamin Taylor6 said:Look, there is absolutely nothing difficult about firing a Grad rocket launcher from two kilometers away. At that distance, you're going to hit everything within a 300-meter radius. You find a group of shady, highly precise operators, aim over the city toward the front lines, and the rockets land just a few miles from where they were launched. And before all that, you make sure to sound the alarm so every civilian clears out to their shelters—just to ensure there aren't any "unplanned" videos being recorded.

Do you honestly believe that much effort is worth it? A False flag involving Ukrainians killing their own people?

It’s roughly the same level of logic as if Americans had staged a scene to make it look like the Germans killed Goering instead of actually putting him on trial and hanging him like they should have (and did).

It’s just a lot of noise and a smoke screen that might last a couple of weeks before being swept away by the winds of war, because, unfortunately, there will likely be much more evil happening, and far worse than this...

Benjamin Taylor6 Regular

577 messages
joined Apr 2017

#3408 · Jul 31, 2022

brightheron64 said:Do you honestly believe that much effort is worth it? A False flag involving Ukrainians killing their own people?

It’s roughly the same level of logic as if Americans had staged a scene to make it look like the Germans killed Goering instead of actually putting him on trial and hanging him like they should have (and did).

It’s just a lot of noise and a smoke screen that might last a couple of weeks before being swept away by the winds of war, because, unfortunately, there will likely be much more evil happening, and far worse than this...

The difference is, you couldn't just swap Goering out for some American officers, whereas the Russians can trade Azov fighters for their own POWs. The real issue here is that the Russians would much rather see those Azov guys dead than part of any prisoner exchange.

Jose Clark2 Member

44 messages
joined Jul 2022

#3409 · Jul 31, 2022

brightheron64 said:Do you honestly believe that much effort is worth it? A False flag involving Ukrainians killing their own people?

It’s roughly the same level of logic as if Americans had staged a scene to make it look like the Germans killed Goering instead of actually putting him on trial and hanging him like they should have (and did).

It’s just a lot of noise and a smoke screen that might last a couple of weeks before being swept away by the winds of war, because, unfortunately, there will likely be much more evil happening, and far worse than this...

Regarding this and similar claims, I don't take anyone's word for it—not one side or the other. Truth is the first casualty in war, as they say. Both sides have motives to spin events for their own benefit, just as they might suffer because of them. Many maneuvers eventually seem illogical or baffling. Deception is common; the psychological aspect of war is often just as vital as the kinetic one. A False flag is a frequent tactic in any conflict. Until an objective investigation proves otherwise, I trust no one.

wanderingmaker3 Member

39 messages
joined Dec 2009

#3410 · Jul 31, 2022

Jose Clark2 said:Regarding this and similar claims, I don't take anyone's word for it—not one side or the other. Truth is the first casualty in war, as they say. Both sides have motives to spin events for their own benefit, just as they might suffer because of them. Many maneuvers eventually seem illogical or baffling. Deception is common; the psychological aspect of war is often just as vital as the kinetic one. A False flag is a frequent tactic in any conflict. Until an objective investigation proves otherwise, I trust no one.

Spot on.

The evidence leans heavily toward the Russians doing the killing themselves (satellite footage and all that).
But hey, anything is possible—we've seen plenty of "precision strikes" before.

There's no way we're getting an independent forensic analysis here, let alone anytime soon.
At this point, you just have to weigh what's actually probable.

Nathan Thomas12 Regular

265 messages
joined Apr 2022

#3411 · Jul 31, 2022

Jose Clark2 said:Regarding this and similar claims, I don't take anyone's word for it—not one side or the other. Truth is the first casualty in war, as they say. Both sides have motives to spin events for their own benefit, just as they might suffer because of them. Many maneuvers eventually seem illogical or baffling. Deception is common; the psychological aspect of war is often just as vital as the kinetic one. A False flag is a frequent tactic in any conflict. Until an objective investigation proves otherwise, I trust no one.

If someone doesn't get how this works—the roof being blown outward from the inside and the epicenter being in the bottom right corner of the structure—then they're missing the point. If a HIMARS strike had actually punched through that roof and detonated inside the building, that metal structure wouldn't even exist anymore, let alone just have its roof messed up.

hiddeneagle98 Regular

300 messages
joined Nov 2023

#3412 · Jul 31, 2022

brightheron64 said:Do you honestly believe that much effort is worth it? A False flag involving Ukrainians killing their own people?

It’s roughly the same level of logic as if Americans had staged a scene to make it look like the Germans killed Goering instead of actually putting him on trial and hanging him like they should have (and did).

It’s just a lot of noise and a smoke screen that might last a couple of weeks before being swept away by the winds of war, because, unfortunately, there will likely be much more evil happening, and far worse than this...

Either the Ukrainians got word that they were being butchered alive just like the guy in this video and decided to cut their losses, or the Russians just slaughtered them because they couldn't be bothered to waste their precious, dwindling manpower on guarding prisoners... or maybe they had already massacred them and this is just a way to cover up the crime.

As far as I know, we saw stuff like this during our own wars too, where snipers would "shorten the misery" for their own side. Honestly, that’s probably the absolute worst thing that can happen to you in a war zone.

Gregory Ramos3 Active Member

220 messages
joined Feb 2022

#3413 · Jul 31, 2022

Nathan Thomas12 said:If someone doesn't get how this works—the roof being blown outward from the inside and the epicenter being in the bottom right corner of the structure—then they're missing the point. If a HIMARS strike had actually punched through that roof and detonated inside the building, that metal structure wouldn't even exist anymore, let alone just have its roof messed up.

Honestly, you kind of need at least a high school level understanding of physics to wrap your head around this one
☕

Oh, and don't forget about that video showing the HIMARS fragments being used as evidence; funny enough, those exact same pieces were also tossed out as "proof" of an attack on the railroad 🤔

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sebasti15...83434572226561

I mean, I guess there's a tiny chance their rockets are just built so perfectly that every single explosion produces identical debris every single time, right? Just kidding, obviously. 😬

The best way to describe the situation with the Russians is basically that whole "Boy Who Cried Wolf" thing. They've been spinning yarns for months now, and at this point, people won't believe them even when they finally decide to tell the truth.

Jose Clark2 Member

44 messages
joined Jul 2022

#3414 · Jul 31, 2022

Nathan Thomas12;93753089 said:If you can't see it, the roof is facing outward and the epicenter is in the bottom right corner of the object. If a HIMARS strike had actually pierced the roof and detonated inside the building, there wouldn't be a roof left, let alone that metal structure itself.]

It would have vanished, much like that bridge that was wiped out—the one where they tried patching those seven HIMARS holes with concrete, if I recall correctly.

crimsongull28 Newcomer

9 messages
joined Jul 2022

#3415 · Jul 31, 2022

Russian forces have killed a tycoon and his wife during their most brutal assault on Mykolaiv yet

Chloe Nguyen21 Member

41 messages
joined Jan 2007

#3416 · Jul 31, 2022

Jose Clark2 said:Regarding this and similar claims, I don't take anyone's word for it—not one side or the other. Truth is the first casualty in war, as they say. Both sides have motives to spin events for their own benefit, just as they might suffer because of them. Many maneuvers eventually seem illogical or baffling. Deception is common; the psychological aspect of war is often just as vital as the kinetic one. A False flag is a frequent tactic in any conflict. Until an objective investigation proves otherwise, I trust no one.

You don't even need an investigation, just a little bit of common sense, I suppose. Why would Ukrainians kill their own heroes just to blame Russians for crimes... I mean, as if the Russians haven't already done enough damage in Ukraine as it is. They might as well just add more to the list, right?🤦
The Ukrainians have been using HIMARS to hit high-value targets this whole time, so why would this little tin can be one? Besides, if a HIMARS had actually hit this thing, there wouldn't be anything left. If you look at the satellite footage, nothing nearby is damaged, which makes me think it was just a controlled explosion from the inside. It feels like we're getting caught up in useless debates again, kind of like when that civilian plane was shot down and the Russians were spinning so many lies to cover their tracks that it became impossible to follow.

casualcrane20 Member

47 messages
joined Jan 2021

#3417 · Jul 31, 2022

Jose Clark2 said:Regarding this and similar claims, I don't take anyone's word for it—not one side or the other. Truth is the first casualty in war, as they say. Both sides have motives to spin events for their own benefit, just as they might suffer because of them. Many maneuvers eventually seem illogical or baffling. Deception is common; the psychological aspect of war is often just as vital as the kinetic one. A False flag is a frequent tactic in any conflict. Until an objective investigation proves otherwise, I trust no one.

I completely agree. The further we move away from the daily grind of battlefield reports—which are notoriously unreliable anyway—the better our chances of figuring out who is doing what and why. At the highest geopolitical level, it's obvious we are seeing a global realignment of major powers. Every tactical move on the ground is just a byproduct of that. Since we are talking about existential survival, these players won't hesitate to use methods that other nations would consider unthinkable. They also won't hesitate to frame those actions to make them look justified or acceptable. Plus, with today's tech for manipulating audio and video, it's nearly impossible to judge authenticity on your own. To make matters worse, journalism, which used to be a decent source of info, has become the primary engine for fakes and noise. Ultimately, we have to follow the money and watch social media. On those platforms, the rarest and most aggressive voices are the independents, which includes me. We tend to annoy both sides because we refuse to fit into the narrow version of "truth" they are trying to push.

velvetbadger11 Member

40 messages
joined Apr 2022

#3418 · Jul 31, 2022

It is rather disheartening to see how things have escalated, but it seems clear now that Ukraine must commit to liberating its entire territory—from the Donbas and Luhansk all the way to Crimea—regardless of how long that process might take.

Arthur Watson4 Active Member

135 messages
joined Feb 2022

#3419 · Jul 31, 2022

casualcrane20 said:I completely agree. The further we move away from the daily grind of battlefield reports—which are notoriously unreliable anyway—the better our chances of figuring out who is doing what and why. At the highest geopolitical level, it's obvious we are seeing a global realignment of major powers. Every tactical move on the ground is just a byproduct of that. Since we are talking about existential survival, these players won't hesitate to use methods that other nations would consider unthinkable. They also won't hesitate to frame those actions to make them look justified or acceptable. Plus, with today's tech for manipulating audio and video, it's nearly impossible to judge authenticity on your own. To make matters worse, journalism, which used to be a decent source of info, has become the primary engine for fakes and noise. Ultimately, we have to follow the money and watch social media. On those platforms, the rarest and most aggressive voices are the independents, which includes me. We tend to annoy both sides because we refuse to fit into the narrow version of "truth" they are trying to push.

I completely agree as a third party.

It's all gray and murky; you can't trust anyone.

How can we really know if Ukrainians didn't actually attack Russia, where the footage isn't even coming from, and this destruction we're watching is actually a False flag by Ukrainians—and we all know who that benefits?

By the way, is it actually Sunday today? Who knows?

That's why I stay totally neutral, and negotiations should honestly start now to stop this fratricidal war cooked up by, well, you know who.👍

Jessica Peterson2 Active Member

214 messages
joined Sep 2008

#3420 · Jul 31, 2022

xBABAROGAx said:What on earth does 'horski' mean?

Is it Zborski?
I'm asking out of pure curiosity since we've wandered off-topic here.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

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