Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

But hey, he can keep telling everyone that some evil Western powers and Nazis were the ones who blew up the pipeline...

By sabotaging this pipeline, the last shred of hope for the Russians has been extinguished. They were banking on Europe being too terrified of a freezing winter to hold their ground—hoping the West would blink and hand over some concessions regarding Ukraine just to avoid a total humiliation.
Frankly, all that hysteria about the EU shivering through the winter was a bit much. Gas storage levels are actually looking pretty solid.

🍿

Since we’re already diving into conspiracy theories, here’s my take: it was the Russians themselves, but honestly? It’s just the kind of karma that’s going to absolutely floor Putin.

Joshua Myers432 said:Give me a break. Just look at the timeline from 1944 to 1945 compared to the years immediately following. Look at how the US, Germany, and Japan handled economic cooperation.

Forget the fairy tales. Money moves the world—or more specifically, the dollar does. 🍿

It’s not even a fair comparison, I suppose. By 1945, Germany and Japan didn't pose any kind of threat anymore. It wasn't so much about "cooperation" as it was about the literal process of pulling those nations up from the ashes.

Joshua Myers432 said:Sure, technically you can sell your share of a pipeline. But look at the bigger picture: that pipeline was essentially a way to secure Russian gas for Germany—a massive strategic project vital to both nations. It’s not just about the asset. It’s like if we decided to blow up the Golden Gate Bridge just because we didn't want to own it anymore. What exactly are we thinking?

A much more accurate comparison for that pipeline would be some bridge over the Danube leading toward Mexico, except it’s strictly one-way, and the cargo only flows from the direction of Mexico.

Linda Collins3 said:The fact that the pipeline is offline isn't the point; the message for the future is what matters.
Look at how the far right has already taken power in Italy, and people are pushing back elsewhere too.
The USA's message would be: "Not on our watch." This is about prevention.

Russ doesn't need to blow up their own pipe; they can just turn off the valve, which is exactly what they've already done.

Then again, you could follow that same logic and claim the pipeline was sabotaged by:

1. Green terrorists
2. Ukraine
3. The American fracking lobby

By that line of reasoning, any of those three groups arguably have way more skin in the game and actual motivation than official US policy does. Maybe.

Well, look, the "far right" has already taken power in Italy, and people are complaining about it elsewhere too.

I don't see what that has anything to do with the Nord Stream sabotage.
Italy wasn't exactly reliant on gas from Russia anyway... they have their LNG terminals and plenty of gas in the Mediterranean, plus they're planning pipelines from North Africa...

Joshua Myers432 said:Sure, technically you can sell your share of a pipeline. But look at the bigger picture: that pipeline was essentially a way to secure Russian gas for Germany—a massive strategic project vital to both nations. It’s not just about the asset. It’s like if we decided to blow up the Golden Gate Bridge just because we didn't want to own it anymore. What exactly are we thinking?

But didn't Germany officially declare their entire strategy is based on completely cutting ties with Russian energy?
Since when did NS1 and NS2 suddenly become "strategic projects" again?

darkrider55 said:But hey, he can keep telling everyone that some evil Western powers and Nazis were the ones who blew up the pipeline...

Which is exactly why they want to mess things up:

The idea that the Nord Stream pipeline was sabotaged sounds like it was pulled straight out of Vladimir Putin’s playbook on how to trigger panic, escalate tension, and manipulate events, according to The Telegraph.

This illegal warfare waged by a former CIA agent has triggered unprecedented sanctions from the West. But the Russian president is convinced his people can weather economic hardships much longer—and much better—than Europeans can.

Putin's logic is simple: the spike in gas prices and the resulting cost-of-living crisis in Europe—a continent hopelessly dependent on Russian energy—will ultimately flip the script in his favor.

dustyfalcon122 said:The whole point is that, up until now, there hasn't been any covert sabotage like this during this war. This would be a total first.
If they wanted to get involved in the conflict, they could have done it openly through other means, which I honestly believe they would have announced beforehand. Secret operations are risky; if you get caught, the backfire is massive—something they've learned the hard way enough times to know. That’s why they stay public in this war.
Covert sabotage? That's the Russians' playbook, especially in a country that's falling apart where one agency has no idea what the other is doing or why.

🤦

Man, what planet are you living on?

Nancy Gomez26 said:World War II kicked off with a false-flag attack on Germany. These people are just ready to "retaliate" in kind. For regimes like this, all that matters is finding a justification, no matter how transparent the lie is—just look at those recent "referendums." We could be looking at a wave of sabotage hitting other pipelines next. First, it’s the Russian lines (which aren't even being used anyway), then they move on to the active ones. And predictably, the narrative will shift to blame Americans for trying to "bring Europe to its knees." I mean, who else would "want to drive a wedge between us"?😉

Honestly, if all the other pipelines got blown up too, nobody would even look at the U.S., so your theory just doesn't hold water.

Timothy Nelson5 said:Then again, you could follow that same logic and claim the pipeline was sabotaged by:

1. Green terrorists
2. Ukraine
3. The American fracking lobby

By that line of reasoning, any of those three groups arguably have way more skin in the game and actual motivation than official US policy does. Maybe.

Well, look, the "far right" has already taken power in Italy, and people are complaining about it elsewhere too.

I don't see what that has anything to do with the Nord Stream sabotage.
Italy wasn't exactly reliant on gas from Russia anyway... they have their LNG terminals and plenty of gas in the Mediterranean, plus they're planning pipelines from North Africa...

I'm not going to keep repeating myself...

Anyway, whatever...

Nancy Gomez26 said:In the grand scheme of things, this is all relatively minor noise for the American political landscape—likely just a routine purging of known dissidents, inconvenient witnesses, or those openly unaligned with the current administration. It might even be a few personal vendettas. When we start seeing CEOs of ExxonMobil or Chevron, or high-ranking military officials, or agents within the FBI or Secret Service—perhaps even someone in the inner circle surrounding Putin—falling one by one, then we will know we are witnessing something significant.

Are you seriously out of the loop here, or are you just trolling? 😁
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/b...koil-dies.html

" . . . the Russian president is convinced his people can endure economic hardship much longer and more effectively than Europeans."

Maybe they can. But the real question is whether they actually will.
Lately, it seems like they're getting increasingly transparent about what they really want.

Linda Collins3 said:Maybe. To me, it seems more likely that if someone suggested opening up a pipeline, Putin would just say "no" and leave it at that, instead of sabotaging his own infrastructure.

That is, assuming he even possesses the political capital to say NO. Or perhaps he has realized that testing his hand now isn't worth the risk.
The only scenario where this actually serves American interests right now is if the top brass in the USA decided to let the gas flow to Germany via Nord Stream at full capacity before winter hits. Given how leaks from the White House seem to be everywhere lately, it looks like they took preemptive action to ensure that wouldn't happen, all without having to deal with the bureaucracy of calling Washington, D.C. It’s a bit awkward to bother officials over trivialities every single day.

Morgan Wright5 said:It’s not even a fair comparison, I suppose. By 1945, Germany and Japan didn't pose any kind of threat anymore. It wasn't so much about "cooperation" as it was about the literal process of pulling those nations up from the ashes.

One thing is certain: peace will happen, one way or another. Do you really think Europe and Russia will never have economic ties again? Some pro-Western government will eventually take over in Russia sooner or later. What does Russia even have to do with the Far East, China, or India? Russia is a European country. They've been a bit lost since 1917, but there's no avoiding it—globalization is relentless.

The TTF gas prices for November and December '22 are already screaming past €220. Remember those "experts" who were lecturing us here, claiming that once the European Union hits its storage targets, gas prices would just naturally plummet?

Honestly, Germany is basically leaving things up to God at this point. If we get hit with a brutal cold snap, it won't matter if they burn through every last reserve they have—they won't be able to bring market prices down to anything remotely sustainable. ☕

Hannah Alvarez2 said:Are you seriously out of the loop here, or are you just trolling? 😁
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/b...koil-dies.html

Do you honestly believe I pay for a New York Times subscription? 😁

Nancy Gomez26 said:Do you honestly believe I pay for a New York Times subscription? 😁

Man, when I first clicked this, there wasn't even a paywall popping up. No clue why it's hitting me now.
But honestly, the news is everywhere—apparently the ExxonMobil chairman "fell" out of a hospital window..

Joshua Myers432 said:One thing is certain: peace will happen, one way or another. Do you really think Europe and Russia will never have economic ties again? Some pro-Western government will eventually take over in Russia sooner or later. What does Russia even have to do with the Far East, China, or India? Russia is a European country. They've been a bit lost since 1917, but there's no avoiding it—globalization is relentless.

They will certainly have economic cooperation, though I suspect this conflict won't conclude quite like World War II did. There are several possible ways this could play out, and I doubt any of them will be a mere repetition of 1945. To my mind, Russia isn't strictly a European country, nor is it purely Asian; Russia is simply Russia, and I think it's best to view it as such.

Meanwhile, over in occupied Crimea (here are some photos from the mobilization efforts):

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/s...XzObyJ1lw_al5A

Linda Collins3 said:Honestly, if all the other pipelines got blown up too, nobody would even look at the U.S., so your theory just doesn't hold water.

Why wouldn't we think of Americans? When that drone went down in Washington, D.C., everyone immediately blamed Russia. Only the few sane people actually looked at a 1,500-kilometer radius from the center before realizing it wasn't them.

You're surrounded by people who have every reason to want Nord Stream 2 dead. At the end of the day, we're looking at a planned, precision sabotage in international waters.

Speaking of being planned and precise—most people on this forum call the Russian Army "incompetent." So, how exactly does an incompetent army pull off a hit like this? ☕.