Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Samuel Lee14 said:Actually, it's true. I suspected this from the very start, and now it's finally being proven...

Just more standard propaganda trash with zero truth in it. I don't get how some people aren't bored to death trying to convince everyone to ignore their own eyes in favor of someone else's interpretation of reality.

crimsoncyclist71 said:Just more standard propaganda trash with zero truth in it. I don't get how some people aren't bored to death trying to convince everyone to ignore their own eyes in favor of someone else's interpretation of reality.

I don't know. Guess you need a brain to go along with those eyes...

I wasn't following anyone else's spin, just my own logic. Turns out my gut was right all along.

Samuel Lee14 said:I don't know. Guess you need a brain to go along with those eyes...

I wasn't following anyone else's spin, just my own logic. Turns out my gut was right all along.

And what exactly constitutes proof here? Some guy mentioned it in a YouTube video, so it must be true? Yeah, common sense dictates you need a brain. That's obvious. It would be nice if these "truths" were actually backed by some real evidence once in a while...

It’s about time this forum stopped being cluttered with this garbage.

https://rtyva.ru/press_center/news/other/49523/

So, I was reading this and man... families of the guys mobilized over in Tuva are basically getting handed a sack of potatoes, some cabbage, a bag of flour, and a single sheep as "compensation" for their lost income while the men are out fighting. 🤦
Honestly, they probably should be getting some coal delivered too, just so they don't freeze their tails off this winter.

northernsailor8 said:The fiasco in Ukraine is easily explained in hindsight through corruption, incompetence, and the delusional thinking of the Russian leadership. However, it should be noted that a vast majority of Western analysts and politicians also believed Ukraine would fall very quickly.

What actually occurred was a rather unusual confluence of circumstances: from an uncharacteristically swift and sharp response from the West at a very inconvenient moment, to an incredibly effective Ukrainian defense, and finally, the almost comedic ineptitude of the Russian military.

But this is different now; Russia knows the potential consequences. No nuclear scenario allows them to escape what they have stepped into. Perhaps they are still naively hoping to stabilize the front, declare the mission accomplished, and somehow dodge sanctions enough to establish additional export corridors toward Asia. A drastic escalation currently serves Russia the least.

Nobody wants Russia to collapse. The West, especially, does not want that; they learned their lesson in America. Look at the Iraqi clusterfuck—Shiites, Sunnis, Iran, Kurds, ISIS; every minor player in the Middle East tried to carve out some state there, so Americans obsessively insisted on borders that were far more unnatural than these European ones.

A Russian collapse is an unfathomably large problem. Who would control the resource-rich territories? Who would inherit the nuclear codes? Who would ensure that nuclear, chemical, biological, and all other weaponry doesn't end up where it shouldn't? And who, exactly, would pacify the Russians, who remain the most populous nation in Europe even without their minorities?

It is a Pandora's box that absolutely nobody on this planet needs. There are resources elsewhere.

I wouldn't bet on it. It’s a dinosaur that can't hold itself together anymore, especially after Putin's madness left them totally isolated and broken.

The West isn't interested, especially after the lesson they learned from the North America.

Honestly, people learned the hard way that breaking up with the old federation was actually for the best—it’s easier to fix things when you aren't dealing with one massive, broken mess. Why should we waste any energy mourning a failed state that used to answer to Mexico City anyway?

Just look at that Iraqi clusterfuck—Shiites, Sunnis, Iran, Kurds, ISIS... every tiny faction in the Middle East tried to carve out their own little kingdom there. It didn't help that Americans were obsessed with forcing these totally unnatural borders on them, way more rigid than anything you'd see in Europe.

Smart move. A unified Arab bloc would be a much bigger headache than them just tearing each other apart.

Russia falling apart would be a massive headache.

Honestly, it’s one less massive headache to worry about. That Russian mobster dictator holds all the cards because he owns everything.

Who's actually going to end up holding the keys to those resource-rich territories?

The economic frameworks of certain nations are basically just setups to offload their resources to Europe and the rest of the world.

Who actually ends up holding the nuclear codes? And more importantly, who’s making sure all this nukes, chemical, and bio crap doesn't end up in the wrong hands?

The governments that actually give a damn about their people won't feed them bombs.

"Quote:"

How exactly is anyone going to pacify the Russians, especially when they’re still the most populous nation in Europe even without any minorities?

About time. They need to finally grow up, embrace democracy, and shake off those mafia and oligarch ties.

It's a total Pandora's box that nobody on this planet needs touching. There are plenty of other resources out there.

The collapse of Russia is both inevitable and honestly good for the world. Watching those smaller states break away and find their own way toward democracy is way better than dealing with this unnatural dinosaur of a regime. Europe will be waiting for them... which works out for everyone. 🙂

northernsailor8 said:The fiasco in Ukraine is easily explained in hindsight through corruption, incompetence, and the delusional thinking of the Russian leadership. However, it should be noted that a vast majority of Western analysts and politicians also believed Ukraine would fall very quickly.

What actually occurred was a rather unusual confluence of circumstances: from an uncharacteristically swift and sharp response from the West at a very inconvenient moment, to an incredibly effective Ukrainian defense, and finally, the almost comedic ineptitude of the Russian military.

But this is different now; Russia knows the potential consequences. No nuclear scenario allows them to escape what they have stepped into. Perhaps they are still naively hoping to stabilize the front, declare the mission accomplished, and somehow dodge sanctions enough to establish additional export corridors toward Asia. A drastic escalation currently serves Russia the least.

Nobody wants Russia to collapse. The West, especially, does not want that; they learned their lesson in America. Look at the Iraqi clusterfuck—Shiites, Sunnis, Iran, Kurds, ISIS; every minor player in the Middle East tried to carve out some state there, so Americans obsessively insisted on borders that were far more unnatural than these European ones.

A Russian collapse is an unfathomably large problem. Who would control the resource-rich territories? Who would inherit the nuclear codes? Who would ensure that nuclear, chemical, biological, and all other weaponry doesn't end up where it shouldn't? And who, exactly, would pacify the Russians, who remain the most populous nation in Europe even without their minorities?

It is a Pandora's box that absolutely nobody on this planet needs. There are resources elsewhere.

I honestly never doubted for a second that Ukrainians would hold their own if they didn't collapse instantly. I don't get why the West or those pundits thought anything else was likely.
Anyone who actually paid attention to what was going down back in 2014 knew how hard Ukrainians fight—remember the cyber-warriors and all that? If you were even remotely plugged into the situation since 2014, there’s no way you expected a different outcome now.
Plus, I've got an American buddy living over in Kyiv right now, and according to him,
Ukrainians have been fired up against the Russians since 2014, much like how we felt during our big conflicts in the early 90s.

hollowdriver13 said:Honestly, calling a democratically elected government a "regime" pretty much gives away which side of the fence you're sitting on.

But hey, go ahead and try explaining to Germans that they don't actually care about Ukraine—since you clearly know better than they do.

https://twitter.com/meyer_resende/st...CqxZ2NmN4rAAAA

Oh wait, look at this—support for Ukraine actually went up by 4% in the last 30 days, hitting 74%.

I guess you should try explaining to the rest of Europe and America that they don't really support UA either, just because "Grace Jones86 knows best."™

It's pointless to argue over this point... we actually agree on the core issue here. 😵

We are all standing with Ukraine... not because of Ukraine itself, but because of us. Because of the West. Ukraine isn't exactly some shining model of anything desirable. 😉
Enough of that.

edit: by the way... I use the word "regime" because these are all regimes, regardless of whether they call themselves democracies. I don't actually believe in democracy, nor does any truly intellectual person. Who am I even talking to here?! 😕

Anyway... despite the stupid insinuations about my views, I am extremely anti-Russian. It's obvious in every single one of my posts. Anyone reading what I write about Russia can see that.

But no... I use the word regime, so clearly I'm just some Democratic Party paid hack... a Russian online troll. 🤣 🤣
What kind of hysteria is this?

It’s just like during COVID. No matter how neutral or analytical your take was, you were immediately branded a cold-blooded killer or a hater.🤣

Grace Jones86 said:By the way... that bizarre decision to strip a massive neighbor—one packed with resources and one that Russia has always historically obsessed over as their own "homeland"—of its nuclear capabilities through some 90s paperwork and "agreements"... it smells like a West game plan.

It’s like they're just teasing the Russians, driving them mad. They deliberately left the door open for exactly this scenario today. Why? It isn't obvious at first glance, but the motive is pretty clear.
To humiliate Russia... during their moment of madness... and wipe them off the historical stage entirely.

It's the same reason they ensured China became intensely tied to the West after the 80s, riding the wave of prosperity that followed.

You toss a bone to one group (the Russians) so they can attack aimlessly and flex those pathetic Slavic muscles 😁 while you buy off another group with unprecedented prosperity for hundreds of millions of people. From zero to 124 miles/h in just 30 years.

Edit: The point is that Americans have maintained an absolutely dominant position through all these combinations.
They let China grow exactly where they wanted it to.
They removed the nukes from Ukraine. They could have insisted back in the 90s when they had total dominance over the Russians 😁 that the nukes stay put... but they didn't.

It's not without reason, though. From the perspective of the West, the primary goal is simply to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons. Imagine a highly unstable nation—one that had just emerged from the collapse of the USSR and was struggling with poverty (certainly lacking the vast resource wealth of Russia)—suddenly becoming the world's third nuclear power. We're talking about a state potentially possessing more atomic warheads than France, the United Kingdom, and China combined. That is an absolute nightmare scenario for the West—largely because of what happens when just one of those weapons goes missing.

Grace Jones86 said:It's pointless to argue over this point... we actually agree on the core issue here. 😵

We are all standing with Ukraine... not because of Ukraine itself, but because of us. Because of the West. Ukraine isn't exactly some shining model of anything desirable. 😉
Enough of that.

edit: by the way... I use the word "regime" because these are all regimes, regardless of whether they call themselves democracies. I don't actually believe in democracy, nor does any truly intellectual person. Who am I even talking to here?! 😕

Anyway... despite the stupid insinuations about my views, I am extremely anti-Russian. It's obvious in every single one of my posts. Anyone reading what I write about Russia can see that.

But no... I use the word regime, so clearly I'm just some Democratic Party paid hack... a Russian online troll. 🤣 🤣
What kind of hysteria is this?

It’s just like during COVID. No matter how neutral or analytical your take was, you were immediately branded a cold-blooded killer or a hater.🤣

If you don't know what a regime is, just Google it. No big deal.

crimsoncyclist71 said:If you don't know what a regime is, just Google it. No big deal.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/regime

😕

What the hell is wrong with you people? This is nothing but cheap, pathetic nonsense.

I didn't necessarily use the word "regime" just to fit the narrative you're trying to pin on me. Even if I did, look at this... pure hysteria, hunting for typos, looking for witches, chasing ghosts! 😵

edit: For God's sake, if the CIA were actually paying me to write neutrally and analytically while being anti-Russian on an American forum, you all would somehow twist it into pro-Russian rhetoric. Clearly, everyone here has lost their damn minds.

I'm done with this thread. The quality of discussion here is absolutely disgraceful.

Grace Jones86 said:It's pointless to argue over this point... we actually agree on the core issue here. 😵

We are all standing with Ukraine... not because of Ukraine itself, but because of us. Because of the West. Ukraine isn't exactly some shining model of anything desirable. 😉
Enough of that.

edit: by the way... I use the word "regime" because these are all regimes, regardless of whether they call themselves democracies. I don't actually believe in democracy, nor does any truly intellectual person. Who am I even talking to here?! 😕

Anyway... despite the stupid insinuations about my views, I am extremely anti-Russian. It's obvious in every single one of my posts. Anyone reading what I write about Russia can see that.

But no... I use the word regime, so clearly I'm just some Democratic Party paid hack... a Russian online troll. 🤣 🤣
What kind of hysteria is this?

It’s just like during COVID. No matter how neutral or analytical your take was, you were immediately branded a cold-blooded killer or a hater.🤣

It really boils down to a few simple points: Russia invaded an independent nation whose borders they previously recognized and then occupied part of it. Period.
They are the aggressor and the bad guy. Period.
They caused the war, the economic crisis, the refugees, and the death and suffering. Period.
They are the only ones threatening with nukes. Period.
I honestly don't know how anyone with common sense could even attempt to justify Putin's nonsense (not even Russian policy in general, just Putin's specific screw-ups and the lapdogs surrounding him).

hollowdriver13 said:Right, because Russia wasn't a signatory to the Budapest Memorandum, no, no—it was just the "evil West" forcing UA into it. 🙏

Who on earth is talking about an "evil West" here?! 😕

Go back and read my posts. I am constantly describing a supreme, wise, dominant West that toys with other "powers" like a baby plays with a rattle.
And they keep everything under control, driving a coherent narrative.

Where exactly are you seeing any "evil West" rhetoric from me?? 🐔

gentlestag15 said:It really boils down to a few simple points: Russia invaded an independent nation whose borders they previously recognized and then occupied part of it. Period.
They are the aggressor and the bad guy. Period.
They caused the war, the economic crisis, the refugees, and the death and suffering. Period.
They are the only ones threatening with nukes. Period.
I honestly don't know how anyone with common sense could even attempt to justify Putin's nonsense (not even Russian policy in general, just Putin's specific screw-ups and the lapdogs surrounding him).

🤦🤦🤦🤣🤣🤣

Good grief, try finding where I've been anywhere near justifying anything from Putin or Russia!

You people should be reported for trolling.

I talk about geopolitics, China, history, and all that, and they come at me accusing me of pro-Kremlin writing. To hell with these forums.

Grace Jones86 said:It's pointless to argue over this point... we actually agree on the core issue here. 😵

We are all standing with Ukraine... not because of Ukraine itself, but because of us. Because of the West. Ukraine isn't exactly some shining model of anything desirable. 😉
Enough of that.

edit: by the way... I use the word "regime" because these are all regimes, regardless of whether they call themselves democracies. I don't actually believe in democracy, nor does any truly intellectual person. Who am I even talking to here?! 😕

Anyway... despite the stupid insinuations about my views, I am extremely anti-Russian. It's obvious in every single one of my posts. Anyone reading what I write about Russia can see that.

But no... I use the word regime, so clearly I'm just some Democratic Party paid hack... a Russian online troll. 🤣 🤣
What kind of hysteria is this?

It’s just like during COVID. No matter how neutral or analytical your take was, you were immediately branded a cold-blooded killer or a hater.🤣

So, I don't quite get why you think the West would just let UA go under?

1 - Western nations are way too pro-UA for some politician, who relies on those voters, to go against what the majority wants. Even Meloni in Italy showed this when she first jumped on Twitter to support Ukraine, and Italy continues to stand by them—even if Italians are generally a bit more hesitant, their support usually hovers around 60%.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GiorgiaMe...62655067660295

2 - The West is far too invested in this conflict now. If Ukraine loses, it would effectively be seen as a defeat for the collective West. Losing that kind of geopolitical influence would be massive.

3 - As much as the West loves poking around in countries in Africa or the Middle East—often unnecessarily, inappropriately, or just poorly executed—since the order established after WWII, nobody has openly annexed territory from another country like this. Not even when the USA and the USSR were fighting proxy wars in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

It’s just as silly as thinking Westerners are snowflakes. That’s exactly what Putin counted on, and he miscalculated badly. He assumed the average Westerner couldn't handle any discomfort, unlike the Russians, who are all supposedly "tough guys."
There's actually a great little saying regarding authoritarian regimes and democracies.

"The authoritarian regime looks strong until the crisis hits, democracy looks weak until the crisis hits."

hollowdriver13 said:So, I don't quite get why you think the West would just let UA go under?

1 - Western nations are way too pro-UA for some politician, who relies on those voters, to go against what the majority wants. Even Meloni in Italy showed this when she first jumped on Twitter to support Ukraine, and Italy continues to stand by them—even if Italians are generally a bit more hesitant, their support usually hovers around 60%.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GiorgiaMe...62655067660295

2 - The West is far too invested in this conflict now. If Ukraine loses, it would effectively be seen as a defeat for the collective West. Losing that kind of geopolitical influence would be massive.

3 - As much as the West loves poking around in countries in Africa or the Middle East—often unnecessarily, inappropriately, or just poorly executed—since the order established after WWII, nobody has openly annexed territory from another country like this. Not even when the USA and the USSR were fighting proxy wars in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

It’s just as silly as thinking Westerners are snowflakes. That’s exactly what Putin counted on, and he miscalculated badly. He assumed the average Westerner couldn't handle any discomfort, unlike the Russians, who are all supposedly "tough guys."
There's actually a great little saying regarding authoritarian regimes and democracies.

"The authoritarian regime looks strong until the crisis hits, democracy looks weak until the crisis hits."

Are you really trying to force me to say that one is just getting splashed with lukewarm water (and seeing a slight dip in already massive GDPs), while the other is watching Western civilization be destroyed? ☕
Is this how we’re going to discuss things? By stripping everything out of context?

I stated clearly that the West certainly wouldn't sacrifice itself for some Ukraine, regardless of whatever symbolic value this conflict supposedly holds for the West itself.
That is an... axiom. I don't see what there is to debate here. 🤦

edit: if we're using the COVID comparison... that's like saying the mandates were excessive.
When you wrote that back in the spring of 2020, you were risking having the mob show up at your door via your IP address. That was a proven fact then, and it remains true today.
Just like today, there is clearly panic and madness surrounding free thought regarding Ukraine.

But hysteria is one thing, and rational thought is another. Hysteria ruins everything.

Grace Jones86 said:Are you really trying to force me to say that one is just getting splashed with lukewarm water (and seeing a slight dip in already massive GDPs), while the other is watching Western civilization be destroyed? ☕
Is this how we’re going to discuss things? By stripping everything out of context?

I stated clearly that the West certainly wouldn't sacrifice itself for some Ukraine, regardless of whatever symbolic value this conflict supposedly holds for the West itself.
That is an... axiom. I don't see what there is to debate here. 🤦

edit: if we're using the COVID comparison... that's like saying the mandates were excessive.
When you wrote that back in the spring of 2020, you were risking having the mob show up at your door via your IP address. That was a proven fact then, and it remains true today.
Just like today, there is clearly panic and madness surrounding free thought regarding Ukraine.

But hysteria is one thing, and rational thought is another. Hysteria ruins everything.

To be perfectly honest, even this one isn't much different from that.

I have already stated my position clearly: the West would never sacrifice its own interests or security for the sake of Ukraine, regardless of whatever symbolic value people claim this conflict holds for Western civilization.
It’s an axiom, plain and simple. I honestly don't see what there is to debate here.

We could spend all day picking apart your grasp of the American language, for instance, but even if we set that aside, there is the matter of everything else—and unfortunately, you are absolutely right about that too. Sadly.

A civilization that feels compelled to bow down before every bully backed by Eastern hordes isn't truly a civilization at all; if that’s our standard, then we might as well fade away.
I believe that little 5'6" caveman made his point crystal clear today. We need to defend ourselves against such garbage using every tool at our disposal, and it's much better to settle the score now in Ukraine rather than waiting until things get 622 miles closer to home.

I think you might have cut off there? You just typed "wor" and nothing else. Was that supposed to be "work," "worse," or maybe you were just starting to type something about the world? Either way, I'm sitting here waiting on the rest of it! Give me the full thought so I can actually react to what you're getting at. [User Name] says:
We really thought they wouldn't invade Ukraine, you know? Like, we honestly didn't think they'd go and cut Russia off from the West, or basically wreck their own country in the process. We never saw it coming—that they'd be committing such inhumane war crimes on a daily basis. Just... we didn't see any of it coming.
But man, we really did go through all that, didn't we?
Honestly, anyone with even a shred of common sense has already bailed on Russia. What’s left behind? Just a bunch of brainwashed idiots soaked in propaganda and people who are too broke to get out. They're stuck between starving at home or getting dragged into a war they don't understand. They have zero clue why they're fighting, who they're fighting, or even what the hell is going on.
I’ve honestly never seen a more pathetic group of losers than these mobilized guys. Seriously, I haven't seen anything like it in my entire life. You couldn't even trust them to watch over a flock of sheep, let alone hold actual weapons.

Bottom line: we could still be in for anything, and honestly, some pretty nasty surprises. Hitler has basically proven he’s willing to pull any kind of sick stunt just to feed that massive, narcissistic ego of his.

Spot on description, and honestly? I’m right there with you. Living here in the States, I spent most of my time thinking this was just typical CNN sensationalism—you know, the media just cranking the volume up to ten like they always do. But man, I was wrong. It’s clearly not just hype. We're dealing with a total madman fueled by massive complexes, and I really don't get how anyone still thinks he's just bluffing. Just look at his speeches since the aggression started. He’s constantly bringing up the USSR, acting like Ukraine doesn't even exist, and throwing the West's colonial past back in our faces. It's wild. This guy is way more of a megalomaniacal paranoid than he even seemed less than a year ago. At this point, a desperate, pathetic nuclear launch isn't even out of the question.

Gregory Ramos3 said:You know what actually keeps me up at night? Hitler managed to turn Germany into an autocracy in literally just one year after taking power.

This guy has been pulling this stuff for over a decade now. We're talking about kids growing up in this environment and becoming adults without ever knowing anything else.

That might actually make Russia way more dangerous than Nazi Germany was, because people have already normalized this whole twisted reality...

The generations of Germans born in the mid-20s were totally brainwashed by all that propaganda, so honestly, it makes sense why they’d see joining the SS or some other officer school as the ultimate badge of honor. I mean, from the moment they were born, all they ever knew was Adolf and his party. It’s not even that different from what an average young Russian is dealing with today, regardless of how much the internet changes things.

crimsoncyclist71 said:Russophiles have finally come to terms with the fact that their supposedly invincible military just got humiliated in Ukraine. Now, all they can do is whine about nukes.
You're pathetic.

I get that it’s hard for people to believe I’m not picking sides here, but look at the facts: the Russian military managed to seize four Ukrainian provinces in just six months. Meanwhile, the US spent over a decade playing games in Muslim countries, which mostly ended with them retreating empty-handed. Whether intentional or not, those are just my observations.

The moment Russia starts truly losing, China will make its move on Taiwan.
History shows us that communists don't value human life at all; if they need to sacrifice 5 million Russians or Chinese citizens to keep the communist machine running, they'll do it without blinking.

Like I said, we better get ready for the atomic age.
The chain of command for activating nukes in Russia is gone. Does anyone actually believe those "briefcases" with the launch codes aren't already sitting in a bunker in Miami, right at the disposal of that Botoxed little man? If Hitler had an A-bomb, do you really think he wouldn't have used it? Whatever this 21st-century version of Hitler decides to do, that's just how it's going to go. Whoever survives will be the one left to tell the story..