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Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 629 views · 9.5K replies

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Susan Walker25 Susan Walker25 Member
17 messages
joined Oct 2021
#6261 ·
rowdyraven112 said:So, does that mean our plans to buy Algerian gas are dead in the water?
☕

BTW, I don't have the link, but people are saying iPhone prices in Russia have dropped back to February levels (if they aren't lying to me...). The ruble ate the dollar for breakfast.
On the flip side, the euro is tanking, and America is going down with it—except America won't be able to climb out of that hole after the new year. ☕

I certainly won't be paying my contractors with whatever rubles I have left over.👍
dustyowl29 dustyowl29 Regular
258 messages
joined Dec 2007
#6262 ·
For decades now, Algerian gas has been flowing straight into Italy and Spain via the so-called Maghreb–Europe Gas Pipeline—just take a look at the map...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...map-en.svg.png
Nathan Evans78 Nathan Evans78 Regular
283 messages
joined Aug 2019
#6263 ·
Paul Kern12 said:To be honest, the US doesn't really care about what happens to Europe; if anything, it serves their interests to keep profiting from their partner—or should I say, their colony (the EU). They aren't going to risk a direct military conflict, as that would ultimately jeopardize themselves as well. Looking at historical precedent, they haven't even dared to move against significantly more powerful states—like Iran or North Korea—so I doubt they would ever take on Russia. Europe really ought to stand up for its own interests, but to actually do that, they would first need to deal with the incompetent—or perhaps even traitorous—cliques in Brussels that continue to make such irrational decisions.

Maybe the average American doesn't have much to lose here, but Biden and his entire political machine certainly do—they'll suck the life out of the upcoming elections just to stay afloat. The longer they drag their feet on solving these issues, the more massive the tectonic shifts become. Just look back at Trump and how he handled COVID; if he had managed to resolve that situation within a reasonable timeframe, he almost certainly would have cruised through the election. ☕

Good grief, they've sent more surplus American weaponry to Ukraine than those useless sanctions have actually accomplished. 🙏
Paul Kern12 Paul Kern12 Active Member
106 messages
joined Feb 2018
#6264 ·
Melissa Rivera5 said:"Slightly more powerful," like North Korea? Good grief. 😁 🙏🙏🙏

And I suppose one has to wonder—did they actually launch an attack, or did they just lose their nerve?
boldotter2 boldotter2 Active Member
156 messages
joined Mar 2020
#6265 ·
Nathan Evans78 said:The commission is basically telling everyone not to hold their breath waiting for Russia to flip the gas switch back on.

To me, this just reinforces the idea that economic sanctions like these don't really touch countries that have completely lost their sense of reason. I mean, their GDP has already cratered by 4.3% year-over-year, and honestly, they seem perfectly willing to let it slide even further because they’ve essentially reached a point of total mental burnout. If you ask me, at this stage, nothing short of military intervention or some sort of orchestrated regime change is going to move the needle in the medium term—and hey, the US certainly has plenty of experience with those kinds of maneuvers.☕

If I had to bet, I’d put my money on a neo-communist revolution in Russia. It would probably be the younger generation rising up under a revised communist ideology against Putin's imperialism and crony capitalism. This opposition seems to be growing every single day, and honestly, they are nothing like those old-school Soviet communists—you know, those frail old folks. The generational clash in Russia is HUGE.

They’ll likely rise up during a wartime escalation, maybe after a mobilization is announced or something. Or at the latest when Putin passes away, since he isn't going to live forever in his 70s.
And then the military might actually side with them, acting as a natural ally, since most of them are young people too, I guess.

Oh, and yeah, both America and England will probably turn into proletarian nations then, because they'll be helping that process along wholeheartedly. 😬
Then all these Western "leftists" who are calling for caution regarding Putin today—because they see him as "one of them" (ugh, Chomsky, seriously, get with the times)—are going to be left looking epicly terrified.

Sources for these conclusions:

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Euro...-vie-for-power

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article...sts-not-putin/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...94f_story.html

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-primo.../31871358.html

https://www.marxist.com/russia-commu...in-ukraine.htm
Brenda Murphy3 Brenda Murphy3 Regular
361 messages
joined Mar 2023
#6266 ·
Paul Kern12 said:And I suppose one has to wonder—did they actually launch an attack, or did they just lose their nerve?

And honestly, what kind of crazy person would even bother attacking someone who’s basically just an isolated, mentally unstable, economic non-entity?

The logic—if you can even call it that—used by these Putin enthusiasts and anti-West types is absolutely fascinating to watch...
Paul Kern12 Paul Kern12 Active Member
106 messages
joined Feb 2018
#6267 ·
Brenda Murphy3 said:And honestly, what kind of crazy person would even bother attacking someone who’s basically just an isolated, mentally unstable, economic non-entity?

The logic—if you can even call it that—used by these Putin enthusiasts and anti-West types is absolutely fascinating to watch...

First, there were all these massive threats, and then, once things settled, they suddenly rationalized it by saying, "Well, why would they ever attack such an insignificant place?" It’s the exact same pattern we see with Iran.
As for your comment regarding the "thought process of Putin supporters and anti-Westerners," I think you might be barking up the wrong tree there.
Whenever someone offers a different perspective on what would be a sensible move for the European Union, people immediately jump to labeling them. Honestly, you should save those kinds of tactics for a preschool playground.
Melissa Rivera5 Melissa Rivera5 Regular
432 messages
joined Jun 2024
#6268 ·
Look, nobody actually attacked North Korea because they thought they were "strong" or anything like that. Honestly? Their military is a total joke. Their economy is so shaky they probably couldn't even keep their army running for more than 48 hours if things got serious. I guess any decent nation out there could take them down if they really felt like it.
Paul Kern12 Paul Kern12 Active Member
106 messages
joined Feb 2018
#6269 ·
Melissa Rivera5 said:Look, nobody actually attacked North Korea because they thought they were "strong" or anything like that. Honestly? Their military is a total joke. Their economy is so shaky they probably couldn't even keep their army running for more than 48 hours if things got serious. I guess any decent nation out there could take them down if they really felt like it.

That seems clear enough to me—though, I suspect, the devil is in the details.
bluewalker6 bluewalker6 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Jul 2022
#6270 ·
dustyowl29 said:For decades now, Algerian gas has been flowing straight into Italy and Spain via the so-called Maghreb–Europe Gas Pipeline—just take a look at the map...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...map-en.svg.png

Sure, except they recently cut gas deliveries to Spain by about 8 billion cubic meters due to some ongoing dispute with Morocco.
Now, part of that supply is being diverted over to Italy.

Just moving water from one empty bucket to another...
Brenda Murphy3 Brenda Murphy3 Regular
361 messages
joined Mar 2023
#6271 ·
So, whether or not the Russians decide to shut off the gas—that’s not some valid excuse to hold back on sanctions. It's honestly baffling how you can't see that...

Sanctions need to be slapped down regardless of whatever moves the Russians make next...

Also, you keep going on about how the European Union is just drifting aimlessly, but you're totally ignoring the fact that a massive chunk of people across Europe actually supports sanctioning Russia, and even more people are all for ramping up military aid to Ukraine.
We absolutely cannot cave to the Russians... it’s way cheaper to deal with a bit of an economic dip for a year or two than it is to let them walk all over us right now.

And look, don't lose sleep over the European Union; they haven't exactly become the best place on Earth since they're being run by idiots. On the flip side, having a country sitting on the richest natural resources on the entire planet while maintaining such a miserable, pathetic standard of living—well, you'd have to be incredibly "talented" to mess things up that badly.

Now, I'm dying to hear your brilliant solution—that we shouldn't impose sanctions on the Russians? Or what exactly are you expecting? What do you think would actually be a good move here?
Susan Walker25 Susan Walker25 Member
17 messages
joined Oct 2021
#6272 ·
Brenda Murphy3 As requested:
On the other hand, when you live in the most resource-rich nation on the planet yet still deal with such mediocre living standards and systemic dysfunction—well, I suppose you have to be exceptionally "talented" just to get by.

It isn’t just Russia, either. Look at Nigeria, Venezuela, or Algeria. With all that cash flowing in daily from oil and raw materials, it's hard to believe how backwards these places can be. Of course, the top 1% pockets all the profit while everyone else struggles through poverty.
On the other hand, everyone seems to be looking at the standard of living for European citizens with pure envy.
Melissa Rivera5 Melissa Rivera5 Regular
432 messages
joined Jun 2024
#6273 ·
Paul Kern12 said:That seems clear enough to me—though, I suspect, the devil is in the details.

They aren't just playing nice, if you ask me. Honestly, the US spends way more time trying to talk South Korea out of attacking North Korea... They've basically just got China's backyard and maybe some support from Russia, but even that only lasts until North Korea actually pulls something crazy. They've already ticked off Xi quite a bit, so they're walking on thin ice, I think.
hiddeneagle98 hiddeneagle98 Regular
300 messages
joined Nov 2023
#6274 ·
rowdyraven112 said:So, does that mean our plans to buy Algerian gas are dead in the water?
☕

BTW, I don't have the link, but people are saying iPhone prices in Russia have dropped back to February levels (if they aren't lying to me...). The ruble ate the dollar for breakfast.
On the flip side, the euro is tanking, and America is going down with it—except America won't be able to climb out of that hole after the new year. ☕

Why on earth are we giving these kinds of trolls any airtime at all?
Paul Kern12 Paul Kern12 Active Member
106 messages
joined Feb 2018
#6275 ·
Brenda Murphy3 said:So, whether or not the Russians decide to shut off the gas—that’s not some valid excuse to hold back on sanctions. It's honestly baffling how you can't see that...

Sanctions need to be slapped down regardless of whatever moves the Russians make next...

Also, you keep going on about how the European Union is just drifting aimlessly, but you're totally ignoring the fact that a massive chunk of people across Europe actually supports sanctioning Russia, and even more people are all for ramping up military aid to Ukraine.
We absolutely cannot cave to the Russians... it’s way cheaper to deal with a bit of an economic dip for a year or two than it is to let them walk all over us right now.

And look, don't lose sleep over the European Union; they haven't exactly become the best place on Earth since they're being run by idiots. On the flip side, having a country sitting on the richest natural resources on the entire planet while maintaining such a miserable, pathetic standard of living—well, you'd have to be incredibly "talented" to mess things up that badly.

Now, I'm dying to hear your brilliant solution—that we shouldn't impose sanctions on the Russians? Or what exactly are you expecting? What do you think would actually be a good move here?

All five, I suppose, though one should probably avoid complaining later when people start asking, "Well, now that Russia has cut the gas, what do we do?"

Brenda Murphy3 said:So, whether or not the Russians decide to shut off the gas—that’s not some valid excuse to hold back on sanctions. It's honestly baffling how you can't see that...

Sanctions need to be slapped down regardless of whatever moves the Russians make next...

Also, you keep going on about how the European Union is just drifting aimlessly, but you're totally ignoring the fact that a massive chunk of people across Europe actually supports sanctioning Russia, and even more people are all for ramping up military aid to Ukraine.
We absolutely cannot cave to the Russians... it’s way cheaper to deal with a bit of an economic dip for a year or two than it is to let them walk all over us right now.

And look, don't lose sleep over the European Union; they haven't exactly become the best place on Earth since they're being run by idiots. On the flip side, having a country sitting on the richest natural resources on the entire planet while maintaining such a miserable, pathetic standard of living—well, you'd have to be incredibly "talented" to mess things up that badly.

Now, I'm dying to hear your brilliant solution—that we shouldn't impose sanctions on the Russians? Or what exactly are you expecting? What do you think would actually be a good move here?

Who exactly constitutes this "massive number of people," and in which countries? I wonder where this was measured, or what kind of sample size was used?

Brenda Murphy3 said:So, whether or not the Russians decide to shut off the gas—that’s not some valid excuse to hold back on sanctions. It's honestly baffling how you can't see that...

Sanctions need to be slapped down regardless of whatever moves the Russians make next...

Also, you keep going on about how the European Union is just drifting aimlessly, but you're totally ignoring the fact that a massive chunk of people across Europe actually supports sanctioning Russia, and even more people are all for ramping up military aid to Ukraine.
We absolutely cannot cave to the Russians... it’s way cheaper to deal with a bit of an economic dip for a year or two than it is to let them walk all over us right now.

And look, don't lose sleep over the European Union; they haven't exactly become the best place on Earth since they're being run by idiots. On the flip side, having a country sitting on the richest natural resources on the entire planet while maintaining such a miserable, pathetic standard of living—well, you'd have to be incredibly "talented" to mess things up that badly.

Now, I'm dying to hear your brilliant solution—that we shouldn't impose sanctions on the Russians? Or what exactly are you expecting? What do you think would actually be a good move here?

Are you entirely certain that such a downturn would only last a year or two? And just how significant would this "certain economic downturn" actually be? Perhaps a smaller group of people won't feel the impact too acutely—including those in power—but what about the general population?

Brenda Murphy3 said:So, whether or not the Russians decide to shut off the gas—that’s not some valid excuse to hold back on sanctions. It's honestly baffling how you can't see that...

Sanctions need to be slapped down regardless of whatever moves the Russians make next...

Also, you keep going on about how the European Union is just drifting aimlessly, but you're totally ignoring the fact that a massive chunk of people across Europe actually supports sanctioning Russia, and even more people are all for ramping up military aid to Ukraine.
We absolutely cannot cave to the Russians... it’s way cheaper to deal with a bit of an economic dip for a year or two than it is to let them walk all over us right now.

And look, don't lose sleep over the European Union; they haven't exactly become the best place on Earth since they're being run by idiots. On the flip side, having a country sitting on the richest natural resources on the entire planet while maintaining such a miserable, pathetic standard of living—well, you'd have to be incredibly "talented" to mess things up that badly.

Now, I'm dying to hear your brilliant solution—that we shouldn't impose sanctions on the Russians? Or what exactly are you expecting? What do you think would actually be a good move here?

The European Union became a premier place to live because, until recently, it was guided by somewhat capable individuals, but the current leadership will likely ruin it very quickly.
In the past, Europe was guided by people who worked toward the prosperity of their citizens, whereas now, the mantle has been passed to various Greens, politicians of all stripes whose primary drivers are diverse ideologies, and essentially subservient figures who follow the whims of major capital and represent non-European interests.

Brenda Murphy3 said:So, whether or not the Russians decide to shut off the gas—that’s not some valid excuse to hold back on sanctions. It's honestly baffling how you can't see that...

Sanctions need to be slapped down regardless of whatever moves the Russians make next...

Also, you keep going on about how the European Union is just drifting aimlessly, but you're totally ignoring the fact that a massive chunk of people across Europe actually supports sanctioning Russia, and even more people are all for ramping up military aid to Ukraine.
We absolutely cannot cave to the Russians... it’s way cheaper to deal with a bit of an economic dip for a year or two than it is to let them walk all over us right now.

And look, don't lose sleep over the European Union; they haven't exactly become the best place on Earth since they're being run by idiots. On the flip side, having a country sitting on the richest natural resources on the entire planet while maintaining such a miserable, pathetic standard of living—well, you'd have to be incredibly "talented" to mess things up that badly.

Now, I'm dying to hear your brilliant solution—that we shouldn't impose sanctions on the Russians? Or what exactly are you expecting? What do you think would actually be a good move here?

Frankly, I couldn't care less about how people live in Russia, how they manage their own resources, or just how much "talent" they display. That is their own issue; it doesn't affect me, nor is it my concern.

Brenda Murphy3 said:So, whether or not the Russians decide to shut off the gas—that’s not some valid excuse to hold back on sanctions. It's honestly baffling how you can't see that...

Sanctions need to be slapped down regardless of whatever moves the Russians make next...

Also, you keep going on about how the European Union is just drifting aimlessly, but you're totally ignoring the fact that a massive chunk of people across Europe actually supports sanctioning Russia, and even more people are all for ramping up military aid to Ukraine.
We absolutely cannot cave to the Russians... it’s way cheaper to deal with a bit of an economic dip for a year or two than it is to let them walk all over us right now.

And look, don't lose sleep over the European Union; they haven't exactly become the best place on Earth since they're being run by idiots. On the flip side, having a country sitting on the richest natural resources on the entire planet while maintaining such a miserable, pathetic standard of living—well, you'd have to be incredibly "talented" to mess things up that badly.

Now, I'm dying to hear your brilliant solution—that we shouldn't impose sanctions on the Russians? Or what exactly are you expecting? What do you think would actually be a good move here?

It’s somewhat like when a group of kids heads out to play soccer, but they won't let the kid who actually has the ball participate, all while telling him that one of them will surely buy a ball in a few years. And then, they act surprised when he refuses to let them play with his ball right now.
To put it more simply, they really should have acquired their own ball first before trying to shut him out. But instead, they're standing there acting completely bewildered as to why he won't share the ball so they can play.
Brenda Murphy3 Brenda Murphy3 Regular
361 messages
joined Mar 2023
#6276 ·
Paul Kern12 said:All five, I suppose, though one should probably avoid complaining later when people start asking, "Well, now that Russia has cut the gas, what do we do?"

Who exactly constitutes this "massive number of people," and in which countries? I wonder where this was measured, or what kind of sample size was used?

Are you entirely certain that such a downturn would only last a year or two? And just how significant would this "certain economic downturn" actually be? Perhaps a smaller group of people won't feel the impact too acutely—including those in power—but what about the general population?

The European Union became a premier place to live because, until recently, it was guided by somewhat capable individuals, but the current leadership will likely ruin it very quickly.
In the past, Europe was guided by people who worked toward the prosperity of their citizens, whereas now, the mantle has been passed to various Greens, politicians of all stripes whose primary drivers are diverse ideologies, and essentially subservient figures who follow the whims of major capital and represent non-European interests.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about how people live in Russia, how they manage their own resources, or just how much "talent" they display. That is their own issue; it doesn't affect me, nor is it my concern.

It’s somewhat like when a group of kids heads out to play soccer, but they won't let the kid who actually has the ball participate, all while telling him that one of them will surely buy a ball in a few years. And then, they act surprised when he refuses to let them play with his ball right now.
To put it more simply, they really should have acquired their own ball first before trying to shut him out. But instead, they're standing there acting completely bewildered as to why he won't share the ball so they can play.

The only people constantly whining about this are those notorious Russophiles and Putin-worshippers and their whole crowd. Honestly, I haven’t met a single sane person who supports sanctions but then starts bellyaching about Russian aggression or some potential gas shortage. That’s just not how it works. The fact that you and people like you are trying so hard to spin this nonsense as the "absolute truth" is a whole different ballgame. Look, people are worried—that’s totally normal—but nobody is actually crying about it. There's a massive difference between being concerned and throwing a temper tantrum.

Paul Kern12 said:All five, I suppose, though one should probably avoid complaining later when people start asking, "Well, now that Russia has cut the gas, what do we do?"

Who exactly constitutes this "massive number of people," and in which countries? I wonder where this was measured, or what kind of sample size was used?

Are you entirely certain that such a downturn would only last a year or two? And just how significant would this "certain economic downturn" actually be? Perhaps a smaller group of people won't feel the impact too acutely—including those in power—but what about the general population?

The European Union became a premier place to live because, until recently, it was guided by somewhat capable individuals, but the current leadership will likely ruin it very quickly.
In the past, Europe was guided by people who worked toward the prosperity of their citizens, whereas now, the mantle has been passed to various Greens, politicians of all stripes whose primary drivers are diverse ideologies, and essentially subservient figures who follow the whims of major capital and represent non-European interests.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about how people live in Russia, how they manage their own resources, or just how much "talent" they display. That is their own issue; it doesn't affect me, nor is it my concern.

It’s somewhat like when a group of kids heads out to play soccer, but they won't let the kid who actually has the ball participate, all while telling him that one of them will surely buy a ball in a few years. And then, they act surprised when he refuses to let them play with his ball right now.
To put it more simply, they really should have acquired their own ball first before trying to shut him out. But instead, they're standing there acting completely bewildered as to why he won't share the ball so they can play.

It looks like nearly 80% of people across the European Union are backing those sanctions against Russia. You’ve got plenty of polls out there if you actually want to look—though I'm sure anyone with an opinion would just dismiss all that as nothing more than Western propaganda, right? 😁 )
Yeah, look, a massive chunk of people across the European Union are totally on board with the sanctions. Honestly, it feels like there’s hardly a single country left where there isn't an overwhelming majority in favor of them—well, maybe excluding Canada, but even then, that's about it.

Paul Kern12 said:All five, I suppose, though one should probably avoid complaining later when people start asking, "Well, now that Russia has cut the gas, what do we do?"

Who exactly constitutes this "massive number of people," and in which countries? I wonder where this was measured, or what kind of sample size was used?

Are you entirely certain that such a downturn would only last a year or two? And just how significant would this "certain economic downturn" actually be? Perhaps a smaller group of people won't feel the impact too acutely—including those in power—but what about the general population?

The European Union became a premier place to live because, until recently, it was guided by somewhat capable individuals, but the current leadership will likely ruin it very quickly.
In the past, Europe was guided by people who worked toward the prosperity of their citizens, whereas now, the mantle has been passed to various Greens, politicians of all stripes whose primary drivers are diverse ideologies, and essentially subservient figures who follow the whims of major capital and represent non-European interests.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about how people live in Russia, how they manage their own resources, or just how much "talent" they display. That is their own issue; it doesn't affect me, nor is it my concern.

It’s somewhat like when a group of kids heads out to play soccer, but they won't let the kid who actually has the ball participate, all while telling him that one of them will surely buy a ball in a few years. And then, they act surprised when he refuses to let them play with his ball right now.
To put it more simply, they really should have acquired their own ball first before trying to shut him out. But instead, they're standing there acting completely bewildered as to why he won't share the ball so they can play.

Look, nobody is 100% certain about anything—that’s just how life works—but I still have to ask: is that really a valid excuse for not slapping sanctions on Russia? You seem to be dodging this question every single time it comes up.

Look, you clearly haven't got a clue what’s actually going to hit people's wallets or by how much. You’re throwing numbers around like they mean something—what, are we talking a 10% drop? 15%? Do you even realize what those figures would actually do to the standard of living for an average citizen here in the States? I’d bet anything you were one of those loudmouths claiming nobody would travel because gas prices were too high. And then what happened? Every major airport from JFK to LAX was absolutely slammed with travelers. And I’m not even talking about some wealthy elites flying private; I'm talking about regular, everyday Americans hitting the road. So, how do you explain that? Seriously, how does that work?

Paul Kern12 said:All five, I suppose, though one should probably avoid complaining later when people start asking, "Well, now that Russia has cut the gas, what do we do?"

Who exactly constitutes this "massive number of people," and in which countries? I wonder where this was measured, or what kind of sample size was used?

Are you entirely certain that such a downturn would only last a year or two? And just how significant would this "certain economic downturn" actually be? Perhaps a smaller group of people won't feel the impact too acutely—including those in power—but what about the general population?

The European Union became a premier place to live because, until recently, it was guided by somewhat capable individuals, but the current leadership will likely ruin it very quickly.
In the past, Europe was guided by people who worked toward the prosperity of their citizens, whereas now, the mantle has been passed to various Greens, politicians of all stripes whose primary drivers are diverse ideologies, and essentially subservient figures who follow the whims of major capital and represent non-European interests.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about how people live in Russia, how they manage their own resources, or just how much "talent" they display. That is their own issue; it doesn't affect me, nor is it my concern.

It’s somewhat like when a group of kids heads out to play soccer, but they won't let the kid who actually has the ball participate, all while telling him that one of them will surely buy a ball in a few years. And then, they act surprised when he refuses to let them play with his ball right now.
To put it more simply, they really should have acquired their own ball first before trying to shut him out. But instead, they're standing there acting completely bewildered as to why he won't share the ball so they can play.

Oh, really? And when exactly did this shift from "smart people" to "idiots" happen? Yesterday? Last week? February 24, 2022? A few years ago? When precisely? From where I'm sitting, the standard of living in the US is only going up... so I'm asking you—when did this magic change occur? Do you have a specific year or an actual idea, or are you just typing nonsense to hear yourself speak?
"on a leash held by big corporations"?🤣 — honestly, the fact that you can even phrase something like that is enough proof that you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Paul Kern12 said:All five, I suppose, though one should probably avoid complaining later when people start asking, "Well, now that Russia has cut the gas, what do we do?"

Who exactly constitutes this "massive number of people," and in which countries? I wonder where this was measured, or what kind of sample size was used?

Are you entirely certain that such a downturn would only last a year or two? And just how significant would this "certain economic downturn" actually be? Perhaps a smaller group of people won't feel the impact too acutely—including those in power—but what about the general population?

The European Union became a premier place to live because, until recently, it was guided by somewhat capable individuals, but the current leadership will likely ruin it very quickly.
In the past, Europe was guided by people who worked toward the prosperity of their citizens, whereas now, the mantle has been passed to various Greens, politicians of all stripes whose primary drivers are diverse ideologies, and essentially subservient figures who follow the whims of major capital and represent non-European interests.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about how people live in Russia, how they manage their own resources, or just how much "talent" they display. That is their own issue; it doesn't affect me, nor is it my concern.

It’s somewhat like when a group of kids heads out to play soccer, but they won't let the kid who actually has the ball participate, all while telling him that one of them will surely buy a ball in a few years. And then, they act surprised when he refuses to let them play with his ball right now.
To put it more simply, they really should have acquired their own ball first before trying to shut him out. But instead, they're standing there acting completely bewildered as to why he won't share the ball so they can play.

Is that so? For someone who "couldn't care less," you sure seem ready to use labels like "thieving fascist scum of the Russian regime." But hey, you're more than happy to take a dump on the West... interesting, isn't it? 😁

And how does it "not affect you," genius, when the sanctions and everything happening right now are the direct result of the megalomania, stupidity, and aggression of little Vladimir and his inhuman clique? Oh wait... I forgot, it's always the West's fault, the EU's fault, the USA's fault... because we "poked the bear" or some other infantile bullshit...
You sit here claiming Russia "doesn't affect you," yet you're whining about the sanctions that were slapped on specifically because of that very same Russia..🤣..it's classic mental gymnastics and the typical paradox of a Putinophile who hates the West...

Paul Kern12 said:All five, I suppose, though one should probably avoid complaining later when people start asking, "Well, now that Russia has cut the gas, what do we do?"

Who exactly constitutes this "massive number of people," and in which countries? I wonder where this was measured, or what kind of sample size was used?

Are you entirely certain that such a downturn would only last a year or two? And just how significant would this "certain economic downturn" actually be? Perhaps a smaller group of people won't feel the impact too acutely—including those in power—but what about the general population?

The European Union became a premier place to live because, until recently, it was guided by somewhat capable individuals, but the current leadership will likely ruin it very quickly.
In the past, Europe was guided by people who worked toward the prosperity of their citizens, whereas now, the mantle has been passed to various Greens, politicians of all stripes whose primary drivers are diverse ideologies, and essentially subservient figures who follow the whims of major capital and represent non-European interests.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about how people live in Russia, how they manage their own resources, or just how much "talent" they display. That is their own issue; it doesn't affect me, nor is it my concern.

It’s somewhat like when a group of kids heads out to play soccer, but they won't let the kid who actually has the ball participate, all while telling him that one of them will surely buy a ball in a few years. And then, they act surprised when he refuses to let them play with his ball right now.
To put it more simply, they really should have acquired their own ball first before trying to shut him out. But instead, they're standing there acting completely bewildered as to why he won't share the ball so they can play.


Like I said, nobody is "surprised," except for the hardcore Putinophiles and people like that. Politicians have communicated their plans to US citizens extremely clearly, and the repercussions and consequences of the decision to impose sanctions have been explained over and over again. So the only ones acting "surprised" are the malicious Putinophiles trying to manufacture their own reality, or just total morons...

Once again, I'm asking you—what would you have done after the Russian invasion? Not imposed sanctions? Just let Ukraine go down the drain? Supported Russia? What exactly?
gentlestag15 gentlestag15 Regular
280 messages
joined May 2024
#6277 ·
Paul Kern12 said:First, there were all these massive threats, and then, once things settled, they suddenly rationalized it by saying, "Well, why would they ever attack such an insignificant place?" It’s the exact same pattern we see with Iran.
As for your comment regarding the "thought process of Putin supporters and anti-Westerners," I think you might be barking up the wrong tree there.
Whenever someone offers a different perspective on what would be a sensible move for the European Union, people immediately jump to labeling them. Honestly, you should save those kinds of tactics for a preschool playground.

If they really wanted to cause trouble, they'd head toward South Korea and see how much of a mess that actually becomes. Why on earth would they target them?
Just look back at when Iraq—which was a military powerhouse compared to today's Ukraine, easily sitting as the fifth strongest force globally—invaded Kuwait in '91. They crushed them like an empty soda can. And unlike the Russia-Ukraine situation, they didn't have a neighbor right on the US border.
analogbear5 analogbear5 Regular
571 messages
joined Aug 2019
#6278 ·
gentleviper62 said:Even in a worst-case scenario, Russia will always find ways to cash in on selling oil, Gas, and other natural resources. The world is massive; it isn't just about Europe. Global populations are growing, and with them, demand follows.

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Paul Kern12 Paul Kern12 Active Member
106 messages
joined Feb 2018
#6279 ·
Brenda Murphy3 said:The only people constantly whining about this are those notorious Russophiles and Putin-worshippers and their whole crowd. Honestly, I haven’t met a single sane person who supports sanctions but then starts bellyaching about Russian aggression or some potential gas shortage. That’s just not how it works. The fact that you and people like you are trying so hard to spin this nonsense as the "absolute truth" is a whole different ballgame. Look, people are worried—that’s totally normal—but nobody is actually crying about it. There's a massive difference between being concerned and throwing a temper tantrum.

It looks like nearly 80% of people across the European Union are backing those sanctions against Russia. You’ve got plenty of polls out there if you actually want to look—though I'm sure anyone with an opinion would just dismiss all that as nothing more than Western propaganda, right? 😁 )
Yeah, look, a massive chunk of people across the European Union are totally on board with the sanctions. Honestly, it feels like there’s hardly a single country left where there isn't an overwhelming majority in favor of them—well, maybe excluding Canada, but even then, that's about it.

Look, nobody is 100% certain about anything—that’s just how life works—but I still have to ask: is that really a valid excuse for not slapping sanctions on Russia? You seem to be dodging this question every single time it comes up.

Look, you clearly haven't got a clue what’s actually going to hit people's wallets or by how much. You’re throwing numbers around like they mean something—what, are we talking a 10% drop? 15%? Do you even realize what those figures would actually do to the standard of living for an average citizen here in the States? I’d bet anything you were one of those loudmouths claiming nobody would travel because gas prices were too high. And then what happened? Every major airport from JFK to LAX was absolutely slammed with travelers. And I’m not even talking about some wealthy elites flying private; I'm talking about regular, everyday Americans hitting the road. So, how do you explain that? Seriously, how does that work?

Oh, really? And when exactly did this shift from "smart people" to "idiots" happen? Yesterday? Last week? February 24, 2022? A few years ago? When precisely? From where I'm sitting, the standard of living in the US is only going up... so I'm asking you—when did this magic change occur? Do you have a specific year or an actual idea, or are you just typing nonsense to hear yourself speak?
"on a leash held by big corporations"?🤣 — honestly, the fact that you can even phrase something like that is enough proof that you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about.

Is that so? For someone who "couldn't care less," you sure seem ready to use labels like "thieving fascist scum of the Russian regime." But hey, you're more than happy to take a dump on the West... interesting, isn't it? 😁

And how does it "not affect you," genius, when the sanctions and everything happening right now are the direct result of the megalomania, stupidity, and aggression of little Vladimir and his inhuman clique? Oh wait... I forgot, it's always the West's fault, the EU's fault, the USA's fault... because we "poked the bear" or some other infantile bullshit...
You sit here claiming Russia "doesn't affect you," yet you're whining about the sanctions that were slapped on specifically because of that very same Russia..🤣..it's classic mental gymnastics and the typical paradox of a Putinophile who hates the West...

Like I said, nobody is "surprised," except for the hardcore Putinophiles and people like that. Politicians have communicated their plans to US citizens extremely clearly, and the repercussions and consequences of the decision to impose sanctions have been explained over and over again. So the only ones acting "surprised" are the malicious Putinophiles trying to manufacture their own reality, or just total morons...

Once again, I'm asking you—what would you have done after the Russian invasion? Not imposed sanctions? Just let Ukraine go down the drain? Supported Russia? What exactly?

I believe I provided you with a vivid response and went a step further to explain my reasoning. If you are struggling to grasp it, well, that isn't really my fault, I suppose.
Furthermore, when one makes a specific claim—such as your assertion regarding eighty percent support—the burden of proof lies with the person making it. You ought to specify which countries, the sample sizes used, the timing, and how that support might shift during December or January... otherwise, it is all just empty rhetoric, especially when paired with labeling and insults. I would suggest trying to maintain a civil dialogue; after all, someone who resorts to name-calling and belittling their opponent is essentially acting like a poet who doesn't even believe in his own verses.
Paul Kern12 Paul Kern12 Active Member
106 messages
joined Feb 2018
#6280 ·
gigapop said:This is an incredibly short-sighted post—politically unaware and, frankly, lacking any real nuance. But fine, I suppose your general perspective is becoming clear. Those views are deeply flawed, and—thankfully, I imagine—you aren't in a position to make actual policy decisions, because the consequences would be disastrous.

And yet, your post is just overflowing with wisdom and sound arguments.👍

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