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Sanctions on Russia

Started by Richard Wilson4 · · 👁 95 views · 9.5K replies

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Participants Richard Wilson4velvetcyclist95Jeremy Peterson4silentsurfer3rowdytiger13Carol Newman2William Anderson5Carl Cookfrozencobra50Paul Patel95Michael Davis10Gary WilsonGregory Ramos3slyfox43dustywolf13Tyler Jones6Larry Walker24Ashley Ramirez4Paul Clark80Adam Lee13northernangler8Nancy Ruiz5James Chavez91neonheron9 …
Anthony Hill5 Anthony Hill5 Regular
379 messages
joined May 2024
#761 ·
Jeremy Turner9 said:It is easy to talk about staying neutral or "keeping one's eye on the ball"... Ukraine cannot defend itself against Russia without Western support. You hear Zelenskyy calling for help, and he is waiting on assistance from the USA and NATO. It is simple enough to say we should act—some people have indeed gone to help—but it is far easier to sit here tapping away at a keyboard, staying warm and well-fed, while in Ukraine, bombs are falling on children and civilians who are left without food or water, shivering in the cold amidst the ruins.

The West provides assistance on a daily basis. Who is it that sends hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weapons and humanitarian aid to Ukraine? Who is it that takes in the refugees?

Is it the Chinese or the Klingons?

Look at how Poland is sending over 28 MiG-29s.

Bold—at least I am not spouting nonsense.
Jeremy Turner9 Jeremy Turner9 Active Member
53 messages
joined Jul 2010
#762 ·
Daniel Barnes53 said:Just because he traded with the West to get his hands on foreign currency doesn't make him a part of Western democracy—which, let's be honest, Russia isn't.
"There is no opposition in Russia because their leaders either end up in prison or become victims of assassinations. There's no public opinion because the media is either controlled by or threatened by the state. In Russia, people protesting against the war get arrested. There is no democratic oversight of Putin and his inner circle.
He doesn't care about the human cost of aggression, whether it's Ukrainian or Russian, much like he doesn't care about his own citizens who have been enduring his autocratic, and now imperial, rule for 22 years."
Basically, it's like dealing with Maddox, just with an atomic bomb.

It wasn't merely about trading; he was also accumulating massive debt. Up until 2008, there was still some breathing room for NGOs and various freedoms, but everything shifted once Obama invited Ukraine toward NATO. Following the strike in Ukraine in 2014, the crackdown began. As far as I can tell, the reality is that Putin isn't following the American playbook for regime change seen in the 90s; a country like that just doesn't exist in that mold...

Boris Yeltsin was actually even more chaotic; he failed to pay out pensions, while oligarchs were busy funneling all the wealth to the West, not to mention the war in Chechnya. We can't possibly know when Russia will truly be ready for democracy, though it certainly seemed to be on that path once. To the Americanophile: unlike in the USA, there is no death penalty in Russia, and Putin isn't carrying out the kind of systemic racial violence we see in certain parts of America... Therefore, what we are seeing is a specific group deliberately discriminating against people economically, socially, and in every conceivable way, effectively sending them to the electric chair without any evidence...

I suggest we stay focused on the core issue. Some intellectuals are already calling for Russia to be expelled from the Council of Europe, which would imply that the Russian government could then unilaterally reinstate the death penalty...
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#763 ·
brightheron64 said:I was just spending some time scrolling through the American news cycle...

Of course, everyone is hyper-focused on the price of oil—I mean, look at California, where a single gallon of gas can hit an "unthinkable" $7—and the cost of natural gas... but what isn't getting nearly enough coverage, even though it's starting to dominate the headlines, is the terrifying spike in fertilizer prices and grain... soon we're going to see meat prices skyrocket too... and, all things considered, it’s going to be quite a ride...

Politics might throw out these flashy, "glitzy" ideas designed to dazzle the public, but at the end of the day, the economy is governed by the law of interconnected vessels...

So? No sane person actually thinks sanctions won't cause damage for everyone involved. It’s pretty clear there's a high chance fuel stays expensive for a while, which drags everything else up with it. Plus, between fertilizer shortages and grain issues, food prices will climb regardless of transport costs.

Recession, inflation—any number of grim scenarios could play out.

Personally, I don't have an issue with it. I'm fine with paying a premium if it means weakening Russia and supporting Ukraine.
Frank Walker7 Frank Walker7 Active Member
81 messages
joined Jul 2013
#764 ·
slyfox43 said:For months now—maybe even a year—they’ve been avoiding the spot market for gas, leaving those ExxonMobil storage facilities across Europe sitting empty. This energy blackmail has actually lasted much longer than the invasion itself, though it hasn't quite achieved the leverage they were aiming for.

I mean, trying to blackmail people when there isn't even a shortage yet doesn't really feel like much of a threat, does it?

Plus, it all feels like political theater to me; I'm much more interested in seeing how the actual American energy sector responds to this.
Anthony Hill5 Anthony Hill5 Regular
379 messages
joined May 2024
#765 ·
wiredseal7 said:https://twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/...dCRPHd4hQh_a3g

CERN hit Russia with sanctions.
Though—as usual—all the current projects are still rolling along. 🤣

Now, look, Pepe Escobar can be a massive troll, but even he is reporting that Russia's observer status has been suspended. If that is the case, shouldn't they logically halt all current projects since the Russians are no longer officially observing?

The level of Russophobia on display here is truly staggering.
Jeremy Turner9 Jeremy Turner9 Active Member
53 messages
joined Jul 2010
#766 ·
Anthony Hill5 said:The West provides assistance on a daily basis. Who is it that sends hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weapons and humanitarian aid to Ukraine? Who is it that takes in the refugees?

Is it the Chinese or the Klingons?

Look at how Poland is sending over 28 MiG-29s.

Bold—at least I am not spouting nonsense.

Fine, so it doesn't bother you that people are being used as human shields... That weaponry won't change a thing; it's just a Pyrrhic victory... There is no such thing as victory here...
Carol Johnson21 Carol Johnson21 Active Member
73 messages
joined May 2023
#767 ·
What actually happens to crude oil once the storage tanks hit capacity if nobody is buying it? Doesn't the whole system just get backed up and clogged?
brightheron64 brightheron64 Regular
408 messages
joined Apr 2016
#768 ·
Anthony Hill5 said:The West provides assistance on a daily basis. Who is it that sends hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weapons and humanitarian aid to Ukraine? Who is it that takes in the refugees?

Is it the Chinese or the Klingons?

Look at how Poland is sending over 28 MiG-29s.

Bold—at least I am not spouting nonsense.

🤔

Why Poland hasn't given Ukraine its MiG-29 fighter jets to combat Russia despite U.S. 'green light'
https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-...-combat-russia

DoD lower expectations of Polish warplanes for Ukraine
https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon...s-for-ukraine/

Just offering a little bit of technical perspective here:

Ukraine not Quick or Easy https://www.airforcemag.com/backfill
https://www.airforcemag.com/backfill...quick-or-easy/
Jeremy Turner9 Jeremy Turner9 Active Member
53 messages
joined Jul 2010
#769 ·
Brussels has a little suggestion for all Americans: ‘Why don’t you try imposing sanctions on Putin yourselves? It’s easy—just stop heating your homes.’
A high-ranking official from the European Commission recently floated the idea that any citizen within the European Union could effectively ‘get back’ at Putin by making minor personal sacrifices.

If we start implementing these kinds of mandates, we might as well just revert to a command economy...
Anthony Hill5 Anthony Hill5 Regular
379 messages
joined May 2024
#770 ·
Jeremy Turner9 said:Fine, so it doesn't bother you that people are being used as human shields... That weaponry won't change a thing; it's just a Pyrrhic victory... There is no such thing as victory here...

What truly irritates me is this mindless Russian propaganda.
Carol Johnson21 Carol Johnson21 Active Member
73 messages
joined May 2023
#771 ·
Jeremy Turner9 said:Brussels has a little suggestion for all Americans: ‘Why don’t you try imposing sanctions on Putin yourselves? It’s easy—just stop heating your homes.’
A high-ranking official from the European Commission recently floated the idea that any citizen within the European Union could effectively ‘get back’ at Putin by making minor personal sacrifices.

If we start implementing these kinds of mandates, we might as well just revert to a command economy...

Someone else—maybe even you—already quoted this link and made the exact same point. Try to stay focused.

And what part of that is wrong? Dropping the thermostat by just one degree is a significant saving. Besides, winter is almost over.
Anthony Hill5 Anthony Hill5 Regular
379 messages
joined May 2024
#772 ·
brightheron64 said:🤔

Why Poland hasn't given Ukraine its MiG-29 fighter jets to combat Russia despite U.S. 'green light'
https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-...-combat-russia

DoD lower expectations of Polish warplanes for Ukraine
https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon...s-for-ukraine/

Just offering a little bit of technical perspective here:

Ukraine not Quick or Easy https://www.airforcemag.com/backfill
https://www.airforcemag.com/backfill...quick-or-easy/

In a statement, Ministry of Foreign Affairs said: "Government of Poland, after consultations between the president and the government, are ready to deploy - immediately and free of charge - all their MiG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the government of the United States of America.

Everything has been settled, hasn't it? The Poles will hand over the MiGs, and in exchange, they receive F-16s. Is it not a Win-win for everyone, except perhaps for that fool Putko?

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-w...nians-12561039
casualtiger2 casualtiger2 Regular
330 messages
joined Apr 2022
#773 ·
FIFA Will Allow Foreign Players in Russia to Break Contracts

It’s pretty funny watching these forum members who signed up ten years ago—barely even posting back then—suddenly popping up out of nowhere just to chime in on threads about Russian aggression.
wearytrucker22 wearytrucker22 Active Member
222 messages
joined Dec 2012
#774 ·
Just to throw some numbers out there: Ural crude is sitting at $94.50 today, while Brent and WTI are both hitting $123

https://topoilnews.com/

https://www.neste.com/investors/mark...ude-oil-prices

Shell is grabbing a 24% discount on the Ural oil mix, and the Germans are doing pretty much the same thing. Makes you wonder who’s actually playing it smart here and who’s just losing their minds.
Henry Lopez10 Henry Lopez10 Member
24 messages
joined Mar 2010
#775 ·
silverotter72 said:Look, you can't pull oil out of the ground without cash, and you certainly can't turn raw material into a product without cash. You can't even handle basic farming, planting or harvesting, without capital.
But then again, if you actually have the money, you can always just go somewhere else and buy the raw materials there.

Spot on. 👍
Plus, if the leadership in Venezuela decides to get on board with the American plan, this whole conflict could wrap up incredibly fast. We're talking months instead of years, with the Russian army exiting Ukraine before we know it.
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#776 ·
Anthony Hill5 said:What truly irritates me is this mindless Russian propaganda.

Exactly. By that logic, the moment someone threatens an invasion, you should just roll over and surrender, because any kind of defense requires sacrifice.
Then they go ahead and blame the victims for getting hurt. They even expect them to apologize for being attacked.
brightheron64 brightheron64 Regular
408 messages
joined Apr 2016
#777 ·
Jeremy Turner9 said:Brussels has a little suggestion for all Americans: ‘Why don’t you try imposing sanctions on Putin yourselves? It’s easy—just stop heating your homes.’
A high-ranking official from the European Commission recently floated the idea that any citizen within the European Union could effectively ‘get back’ at Putin by making minor personal sacrifices.

If we start implementing these kinds of mandates, we might as well just revert to a command economy...

Well, gas prices are one thing... but I’m more worried about us hitting this stage: 😬

The massive comeback of poverty meals: These simple recipes used to be what our grandparents cooked, and now they're suddenly trendy again
Jeremy Turner9 Jeremy Turner9 Active Member
53 messages
joined Jul 2010
#778 ·
Anthony Hill5 said:What truly irritates me is this mindless Russian propaganda.

What kind of propaganda? They are actively concealing the reality of the situation...

It is becoming increasingly apparent to me just how foolish we were to broadcast the unfolding tragedies in places like Pittsburgh or San Francisco, whereas the West simply refuses to touch those matters...
silverotter72 silverotter72 Active Member
126 messages
joined Mar 2022
#779 ·
Frank Walker7 said:I'm not quite following your train of thought, though I think I caught your point at the end where you're really asking about the specific price tag involved.

What exactly is so hard to grasp here?
To actually extract resources, they need technology—technology they’d have to purchase because they simply don't possess it, and I highly doubt anyone is just going to hand it over as a gift.
Even if they have existing wells, keeping them operational requires maintenance, which again, demands foreign tech.
If they want to mine ore at prices that actually make economic sense, they're back to square one: needing technology they don't own.
Then there's agriculture. To plant anything meaningful, you need high-yield seeds (which they buy from Americans) and the machinery, like tractors, to scale production. They pull all of that from Germany or the USA. They don't have their own. The only alternative is using low-quality seeds and outdated methods.
And even when something finally grows, albeit in much smaller quantities, they still have to harvest it. Again, more machinery, more tech, and so on.

All those oil reserves, gas, minerals, and miles of empty land don't mean a thing if they can't actually utilize them. It’s that old saying: a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. In this case, it feels like they killed the bird in their hand with a cruise missile just to try and catch the ones in the bush, only to watch the whole thing fly away.

And yes, the European Union will eventually have to pay whatever the market demands, likely at a premium. But, the EU also has its own resources that it'll now be forced to develop and utilize—something it really should have been doing a long time ago instead of relying solely on cheap handouts from neighbors. We're seeing now that "cheap" often turns out to be significantly more expensive than it looks at first glance.
It’s like what wealthy people say: "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things." Well, I suppose the European Union has just learned that lesson the hard way.
brightheron64 brightheron64 Regular
408 messages
joined Apr 2016
#780 ·
Anthony Hill5 said:In a statement, Ministry of Foreign Affairs said: "Government of Poland, after consultations between the president and the government, are ready to deploy - immediately and free of charge - all their MiG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the government of the United States of America.

Everything has been settled, hasn't it? The Poles will hand over the MiGs, and in exchange, they receive F-16s. Is it not a Win-win for everyone, except perhaps for that fool Putko?

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-w...nians-12561039

Aha.

Maybe if you actually read the whole article...

"At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities.

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