The Principle

steelridge58 said:So, what you're describing is using a principle as an alibi, a convenient excuse or a way to justify oneself, which essentially hides
Or, it’s just taking the path of least resistance.

It's really just the cosmetic veneer of an offended person that completely vanishes the moment you actually offer them an apology.

In reality, when things like this happen, we're talking about a very conditional type of being "uncompromising."

I was mulling over a few different ways this could go..
Maybe it's stubbornness backed by logic.
Or maybe it's just stubbornness without any logic at all.
Pure defiance.
It's basically the fetus stage of a principle.

That was actually a really well-put, original way to frame it.

Principles are nothing more than personal declarations.

🙂

At its core, a principle can often just be a way to hide the actual reason why someone is acting a certain way.
Honestly, I've noticed that some people, after getting burned or frustrated by how others behave, start manufacturing these rigid principles purely for their own benefit.
They use these rules to distance themselves from people they don't want to associate with, while simultaneously sending a little signal to everyone else that they're "principled" or have high standards.
But if you actually dig a little deeper—and I mean really ask "why" at least three times—you'll find the true motivation behind those social boundaries.

Let's face it, people don't always get along in groups. It’s common to have disagreements or even full-blown arguments, and to justify their decision to stop hanging out with those specific people, individuals will pull out a "principle" from their personal social handbook. It makes their choice feel more structured.

They set a standard for themselves and then stick to it.
And hey, I'm not judging them.
In fact, I think it's pretty civilized. They aren't being aggressive, they aren't insulting anyone, and they aren't encouraging bad behavior in others.
A principle is clearly a useful tool for managing social needs when things get messy or tense.

I have a lot of respect for people who are honest enough to explain the real cause and motive behind their convictions.
However, those who parade their "principles" around like they're some badge of superior moral character—without being able to admit what's actually driving them—aren't really worth taking too seriously.

Are you suggesting that having principles is just a fancy word for pettiness? 😁

Precisely.
However, if one stopped taking themselves so seriously and treated it more like a bit of lighthearted mockery—which is honestly the highest honor any principle deserves—then it could actually be entertaining. For instance, I might declare that based on principle I simply refuse to engage in conversation with anyone who isn't a Marxist. I’d implement a rule where I "just have nothing to talk about" with non-Marxists (or whatever category happens to be the polar opposite of what a person values) 🙂
That would be an entirely subjective stance, certainly (given that I truly would have "nothing to say" to them), but that is precisely the point of this whole debate regarding principles. People often resort to those tired, universally accepted moral platitudes just to try and validate their principles objectively, attempting to give them weight so they appear to be some sort of objective truth rather than just the arbitrary criteria of one or two individuals. But ultimately, it's all just mental gymnastics.

Under my set of principles, I’d also include an Open Day (on 😬Sundays)) where I would intentionally converse with non-Marxists, just to see what kind of nonsense we can say to one another. 🤣

A principle without an actual argument is basically just food without any seasoning.
Without explaining the cause-and-effect behind it, you don't really have a principle; you just have a rule.
I honestly think only people who truly grasp how their actions ripple out to affect the community should be claiming to live by principles.
In reality, we don't hold onto principles for our own sake—we do it for everyone else. It’s really just a way to add value to our lives, or maybe just a little way to polish up our egos.

Just imagine this:
"I don't buy American products because of my principles."
"I won't touch pistachios because they're sourced from Iran."
"I refuse to spend a dime on a telecom company owned by foreign interests."

Most of the time, "principles" are nothing more than window dressing without any real substance. They're just another way for us to signal something to the people around us.

ruggeddriver21 said:A principle without an actual argument is basically just food without any seasoning.
Without explaining the cause-and-effect behind it, you don't really have a principle; you just have a rule.
I honestly think only people who truly grasp how their actions ripple out to affect the community should be claiming to live by principles.
In reality, we don't hold onto principles for our own sake—we do it for everyone else. It’s really just a way to add value to our lives, or maybe just a little way to polish up our egos.

Just imagine this:
"I don't buy American products because of my principles."
"I won't touch pistachios because they're sourced from Iran."
"I refuse to spend a dime on a telecom company owned by foreign interests."

Most of the time, "principles" are nothing more than window dressing without any real substance. They're just another way for us to signal something to the people around us.

Without principles, you aren't really anyone. You have to have them just to possess a legitimate opinion.

So, the whole debate regarding principles is actually a distinction between good, well-founded ones—built on solid arguments—and bad ones, which are trivial or driven purely by ego.

Take this, for example: a principled person will stand up for justice as long as the facts support it. Meanwhile, someone who lacks true principles might still claim to have them, but they are poor principles, so they'll side with whatever benefits them through some crooked logic.
Lately, everyone seems to be talking about "authenticity," but honestly? That's just a synonym for being principled.

jadeheron5 said:Without principles, you aren't really anyone. You have to have them just to possess a legitimate opinion.

So, the whole debate regarding principles is actually a distinction between good, well-founded ones—built on solid arguments—and bad ones, which are trivial or driven purely by ego.

Take this, for example: a principled person will stand up for justice as long as the facts support it. Meanwhile, someone who lacks true principles might still claim to have them, but they are poor principles, so they'll side with whatever benefits them through some crooked logic.
Lately, everyone seems to be talking about "authenticity," but honestly? That's just a synonym for being principled.

I'm not sure I follow...

Look, there's personal logic and then there's social conditioning. For example, we know a criminal is "bad" because they take things from others.
We also have a shared social code that tells us lying, cheating, and stealing are wrong and should be penalized.
That part is obvious.
You don't need to dress it up with big words like "principles."
To me, it feels like "principles" is just a decorative term—an unnecessary upgrade to something already understood.
It’s pretty straightforward.
A thief is a problem in society because they threaten the stability of everyone else.
That’s just common sense for any thinking human being. Why would you even need a formal principle for that?

In my view, "principles" are often just pretension. It's a way for people to puff themselves up and act superior.

ruggeddriver21 said:There’s an old saying:

A bik is tied by its horns, but a man is bound by his words.

Doesn't that strike you as being deeply connected to the idea of having a principle?
What does "free interpretation" of a principle even mean, anyway?
Is it our core values? Our internal yardstick for character? Something like that...

I’ve noticed that people who actually live by a principle tend to be quite focused individuals—the kind of folks who really guard their integrity. It’s not exactly a widespread trait among the general public, though. Sometimes, having a strong sense of principle can be a loud part of your personality, and people might even call you selfish for sticking to it, but I think there’s something genuinely beautiful and valuable about it.
It essentially maps out how we relate to the world around us.
It grants us a sense of dignity, while simultaneously sending a message to society that staying true to oneself comes with a cost.

Actually, now that I’ve set the stage, I’d say a principle is simply the price we pay to remain ourselves.
And well, everything in this life has a price tag, doesn't it?
A principle is just that price.

What do you all think? Am I on the right track here?

Then there’s the opposing view: "To hell with the man who refuses to be swayed."😁

I find a sort of synthesis in Taoism—where the hardest thing is also the softest: water. It yields and embraces you when you push against it, yet it can pierce through even the most stubborn rock through nothing more than persistent dripping...

So, perhaps those with principles are the most valuable—but only so long as they possess the wisdom to let them go when necessary.

ruggeddriver21 said:There’s an old saying:

A bik is tied by its horns, but a man is bound by his words.

Doesn't that strike you as being deeply connected to the idea of having a principle?
What does "free interpretation" of a principle even mean, anyway?
Is it our core values? Our internal yardstick for character? Something like that...

I’ve noticed that people who actually live by a principle tend to be quite focused individuals—the kind of folks who really guard their integrity. It’s not exactly a widespread trait among the general public, though. Sometimes, having a strong sense of principle can be a loud part of your personality, and people might even call you selfish for sticking to it, but I think there’s something genuinely beautiful and valuable about it.
It essentially maps out how we relate to the world around us.
It grants us a sense of dignity, while simultaneously sending a message to society that staying true to oneself comes with a cost.

Actually, now that I’ve set the stage, I’d say a principle is simply the price we pay to remain ourselves.
And well, everything in this life has a price tag, doesn't it?
A principle is just that price.

What do you all think? Am I on the right track here?

Slow down there, buddy. 😁
If a bull uses its horns as its primary weapon—which it does—and a man uses his words, how on earth did you jump straight to "personal values" and "character metrics"? That's quite a leap... A bull will use those horns to gore the first guy who dares get too close to its herd, and a man will use his words to tear apart the first benefactor who tries to cut his benefits...

ruggeddriver21 said:There’s an old saying:

A bik is tied by its horns, but a man is bound by his words.

Doesn't that strike you as being deeply connected to the idea of having a principle?
What does "free interpretation" of a principle even mean, anyway?
Is it our core values? Our internal yardstick for character? Something like that...

I’ve noticed that people who actually live by a principle tend to be quite focused individuals—the kind of folks who really guard their integrity. It’s not exactly a widespread trait among the general public, though. Sometimes, having a strong sense of principle can be a loud part of your personality, and people might even call you selfish for sticking to it, but I think there’s something genuinely beautiful and valuable about it.
It essentially maps out how we relate to the world around us.
It grants us a sense of dignity, while simultaneously sending a message to society that staying true to oneself comes with a cost.

Actually, now that I’ve set the stage, I’d say a principle is simply the price we pay to remain ourselves.
And well, everything in this life has a price tag, doesn't it?
A principle is just that price.

What do you all think? Am I on the right track here?

Now, you definitely don't want "principled" killers or rapists. Nor would you want them in politicians—the kind whose biggest achievement is basically ensuring things aren't any worse than they already were.

Jacob Cooper5 said:Slow down there, buddy. 😁
If a bull uses its horns as its primary weapon—which it does—and a man uses his words, how on earth did you jump straight to "personal values" and "character metrics"? That's quite a leap... A bull will use those horns to gore the first guy who dares get too close to its herd, and a man will use his words to tear apart the first benefactor who tries to cut his benefits...

Now, you definitely don't want "principled" killers or rapists. Nor would you want them in politicians—the kind whose biggest achievement is basically ensuring things aren't any worse than they already were.

Hmm...
I think we all carry this little genetic chip inside us that actually bypasses our higher moral reasoning and conscious thought.
At the end of the day, when things get heavy and we face a crisis, we’re really just creatures trying to survive...
Maybe we don't want to look at that darker side of ourselves, but believe me, it's definitely there.
It’s woven into our very fabric because, honestly, it's how we protect ourselves.
Didn't we all feel that same primal fear the moment those first sparks started flying?!

Jacob Cooper5 said:Slow down there, buddy. 😁
If a bull uses its horns as its primary weapon—which it does—and a man uses his words, how on earth did you jump straight to "personal values" and "character metrics"? That's quite a leap... A bull will use those horns to gore the first guy who dares get too close to its herd, and a man will use his words to tear apart the first benefactor who tries to cut his benefits...

Now, you definitely don't want "principled" killers or rapists. Nor would you want them in politicians—the kind whose biggest achievement is basically ensuring things aren't any worse than they already were.

It seems everyone operates by their own set of rules, which naturally leads us into different categories of principles;

-personal principles (values shaped by how you were raised, your inner circle, life experience...)
-universal principles (shared values promoted within a community or society...)
-cause-and-effect principles (an individual's independent way of reacting to things...)