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What is wisdom?

Started by mistybison · · 👁 4 views · 172 replies

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Participants mistybisonHarold Doyle3coppersailor28ruggedraven36Joseph Murphy10Eric Newman75Richard Palmer55gentlerider7Amanda Jackson5jadeheron5Nicholas Gonzalez87bluemason3Sam Martinez9boldsailor32hiddenhound3Gerald Jackson48steelridge58Laura Jones56Zachary White19Ethan Gomez82feralrangerTerry Morris64Sandra Murphy33David Robinson26 …
mistybison mistybison RegularOP
495 messages
joined Aug 2008
#1 ·
A conversation recently broke out on "religion" regarding whether a religious person can truly be considered wise. After a bit of back-and-forth, we reached the consensus that everyone defines wisdom differently, which naturally dictates their view on whether faith and wisdom can coexist.

Since philosophy is fundamentally defined as the love of wisdom, this seems like the perfect venue to pin down what that term actually signifies. 🙂

How would you define wisdom? 🙂
Harold Doyle3 Harold Doyle3 Active Member
216 messages
joined Aug 2006
#2 ·
mistybison said:A conversation recently broke out on "religion" regarding whether a religious person can truly be considered wise. After a bit of back-and-forth, we reached the consensus that everyone defines wisdom differently, which naturally dictates their view on whether faith and wisdom can coexist.

Since philosophy is fundamentally defined as the love of wisdom, this seems like the perfect venue to pin down what that term actually signifies. 🙂

How would you define wisdom? 🙂

I literally just wrote a post explaining exactly where you *won't* find any wisdom, and yet, here you are looking right there! 🤦
coppersailor28 coppersailor28 Active Member
156 messages
joined Mar 2012
#3 ·
Harold Doyle3 said:I literally just wrote a post explaining exactly where you *won't* find any wisdom, and yet, here you are looking right there! 🤦

If you had just told her right here where she wouldn't find wisdom, she actually would have stayed here.
ruggedraven36 ruggedraven36 Regular
331 messages
joined Dec 2015
#4 ·
These days, actual wisdom is a dying breed.
Harold Doyle3 Harold Doyle3 Active Member
216 messages
joined Aug 2006
#5 ·
coppersailor28 said:If you had just told her right here where she wouldn't find wisdom, she actually would have stayed here.

I should have... but it's too late now!
I sent it to her over there instead of right here, so naturally, she shows up over there instead of here.
mistybison mistybison RegularOP
495 messages
joined Aug 2008
#6 ·
Harold Doyle3 said:I literally just wrote a post explaining exactly where you *won't* find any wisdom, and yet, here you are looking right there! 🤦

I am not searching for wisdom; I am simply looking for a clear definition of the term wisdom.

Let's see if we can distinguish between the two! 🧐

When you truly love something, you ought to understand what it actually is. 🤔 That is how it should work, at least. 🙂
mistybison mistybison RegularOP
495 messages
joined Aug 2008
#7 ·
ruggedraven36 said:These days, actual wisdom is a dying breed.

How would you define being a sage?
ruggedraven36 ruggedraven36 Regular
331 messages
joined Dec 2015
#8 ·
mistybison said:How would you define being a sage?

It’s pretty simple—it’s the guy everyone looks up to because he actually knows what he’s talking about.
ruggedraven36 ruggedraven36 Regular
331 messages
joined Dec 2015
#9 ·
mistybison said:I am not searching for wisdom; I am simply looking for a clear definition of the term wisdom.

Let's see if we can distinguish between the two! 🧐

When you truly love something, you ought to understand what it actually is. 🤔 That is how it should work, at least. 🙂

There isn't one universal definition you can just pull off a shelf. Roughly speaking? Wisdom is the virtue of someone who's finally figured out how the world works—and actually lives by those realizations.
Joseph Murphy10 Joseph Murphy10 Active Member
102 messages
joined Dec 2020
#10 ·
ruggedraven36 said:These days, actual wisdom is a dying breed.

What kind of weird claims are

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S10 using Reddit
ruggedraven36 ruggedraven36 Regular
331 messages
joined Dec 2015
#11 ·
Joseph Murphy10 said:What kind of weird claims are

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S10 using Reddit

Seems weird to me too. But honestly—as far as I can tell—no nation around here actually has its own resident sage these days.
Eric Newman75 Eric Newman75 Active Member
137 messages
joined Jul 2011
#12 ·
You could definitely call Pope Francis wise. A lot of his takes are actually pretty sharp and go deep. From what I've gathered, he actually walks the walk when it comes to his own principles.
Joseph Murphy10 Joseph Murphy10 Active Member
102 messages
joined Dec 2020
#13 ·
ruggedraven36 said:Seems weird to me too. But honestly—as far as I can tell—no nation around here actually has its own resident sage these days.

If you think it’s weird, then you’re probably on the right track to becoming wise yourself.

National sages... what even is that?
From everything I've picked up—connecting the dots between life experience and book learning—most "sages" were actually just seen as crazy back in their day. Like, dangerously unhinged. They usually only get that "wise" reputation after they're dead.

Even Saint Paul said you basically have to be a fool to be truly wise... or something along those lines.

Edit: found a decent definition of wisdom on Wikipedia.

"Wisdom is a concept denoting deep knowledge, insight, and good judgment. People who pursue wisdom are called philosophers (Greek: philia - love, sophia - wisdom).

Those who seek wisdom make time for spiritual growth, not letting the "demands of practical life swallow them whole."

Based on that definition, I’m pretty much with you—there aren't many actual sages left.

Because...

The modern world is obsessed with a "knowledge economy" hidden behind formal credentials, and honestly, I don't see much wisdom in that.

(Just a side note.)

So, I'm sticking to my guns: you have to be "crazy" (in the eyes of the world) to actually be wise.

Sent from my Galaxy S10 using Reddit
ruggedraven36 ruggedraven36 Regular
331 messages
joined Dec 2015
#14 ·
Joseph Murphy10 said:If you think it’s weird, then you’re probably on the right track to becoming wise yourself.

National sages... what even is that?
From everything I've picked up—connecting the dots between life experience and book learning—most "sages" were actually just seen as crazy back in their day. Like, dangerously unhinged. They usually only get that "wise" reputation after they're dead.

Even Saint Paul said you basically have to be a fool to be truly wise... or something along those lines.

Edit: found a decent definition of wisdom on Wikipedia.

"Wisdom is a concept denoting deep knowledge, insight, and good judgment. People who pursue wisdom are called philosophers (Greek: philia - love, sophia - wisdom).

Those who seek wisdom make time for spiritual growth, not letting the "demands of practical life swallow them whole."

Based on that definition, I’m pretty much with you—there aren't many actual sages left.

Because...

The modern world is obsessed with a "knowledge economy" hidden behind formal credentials, and honestly, I don't see much wisdom in that.

(Just a side note.)

So, I'm sticking to my guns: you have to be "crazy" (in the eyes of the world) to actually be wise.

Sent from my Galaxy S10 using Reddit

The Greeks had those seven sages—Thales, Solon... I can't recall the rest of the lineup.
Joseph Murphy10 Joseph Murphy10 Active Member
102 messages
joined Dec 2020
#15 ·
ruggedraven36 said:The Greeks had those seven sages—Thales, Solon... I can't recall the rest of the lineup.

The Greeks put Socrates on trial, and honestly? The guy was such a genius that he basically saw the death penalty as a triple win. First, he finally got away from those shallow, cheap, shady, and straight-up moronic crowds. Second, he finally escaped his loudmouthed, angry, and total nightmare of a wife—Xanthippe. And third—the best part—he didn't have to deal with the misery of getting old. Seriously, smartest guy to ever live.

That’s exactly why Spinoza was so sharp—he skipped the marriage and dodged that whole university grind.

So, smart-ass Abelard wanted to teach at some big-shot university—you know, chase that prestige and glory—and he goes and marries Heloise. Now look at him. He totally blew it and lost his junk in the process.

Just something to think about.
ruggedraven36 ruggedraven36 Regular
331 messages
joined Dec 2015
#16 ·
The sayings of the Seven Sages.

Cleobulus of Miletus, son of Eua, says:

Here’s the breakdown—twenty rules for actually living a life that doesn't suck: 1. Moderation is everything. Don't overdo it. 2. Respect your old man. Period. 3. Keep your body and your mind in fighting shape. 4. Listen more than you talk. Most people just hear themselves speak anyway. 5. Better to be a know-it-all than a complete idiot. 6. Watch your mouth. Use kind words. 7. Be a friend to virtue and an enemy to malice. 8. Hate injustice, but stand up for mercy. 9. Give your neighbors the best advice you can muster. 10. Master your impulses—don't let them master you. 11. Never force anything. It never works out. 12. Raise your kids right. It's on you. 13. Pray for some good luck once in a while. 14. Drop the hate. It's a waste of energy. 15. If someone is working against the people, they're your enemy. Simple as that. 16. Don't argue with your wife in front of others, and don't get all mushy either. One makes you look crazy, the other makes you look weak. Pick a lane. 17. Don't discipline the help when they've been drinking; they'll just assume you're drunk too. 18. Marry someone on your own level. If you marry way up, you won't have in-laws—you'll have bosses. 19. Don't laugh at the guy being mocked. You'll just end up on the target list for everyone he's making fun of. 20. When things are great, stay humble. When things hit the fan, don't lose your dignity.

Solon of Athens, son of Exekias, says:

1. Don't overdo it. 2. Don't act like you're sitting on a high bench—if you play judge too hard, the guy in the hot seat is just going to resent you. 3. Avoid chasing cheap thrills that leave you feeling empty later. 4. Guard your integrity—it’s worth way more than any oath you ever take. 5. Seal your words with silence, and use silence when the moment calls for it. 6. Stop lying. Just tell the truth. 7. Stick to things that actually matter. 8. Don't think you're smarter than your folks. 9. Don't rush into friendships—but once you've built them, don't be the one to break them. 10. If you can't learn how to follow, you have no business trying to lead. 11. If you expect everyone else to answer for their mistakes, make sure you're ready to do the same. 12. When giving advice to your fellow citizens, don't tell them what sounds good—tell them what's actually right. 13. Don't get arrogant. 14. Don't run with the wrong crowd. 15. Consult a higher power. 16. Show respect to your friends. 17. If you don't know, keep your mouth shut. 18. If you do know, stay quiet. 19. Be kind to your own people. 20. Use what people can see to prove what they can't.

Cleomenes of Sparta, son of Damagetus, says:

Here’s the playbook—simple enough if you actually have the spine to follow it: 1. Get to know yourself. Truly. 2. When you’re drinking, shut up. Otherwise, you'll start talking nonsense. 3. Don't threaten people who are free—it’s cheap and it isn't right. 4. Stop gossiping about your neighbors. Trust me, you won't like what you hear coming back your way. 5. Show up to a friend's party at a reasonable hour, but show up to their crisis immediately. 6. Keep weddings low-key. No need for the massive, flashy circus. 7. Treat the Dead with respect. 8. Respect your elders. 9. Avoid anyone who can't mind their own business. 10. Losing is better than winning dirty. A loss hurts once; a shameful win haunts you for life. 11. Don't kick someone when they're already down. 12. If you’ve got power, stay calm. It commands respect—fear is just a shortcut for cowards. 13. Run your own household properly. 14. Don't let your mouth run faster than your brain. 15. Master your impulses. 16. Stop chasing the impossible. 17. Don't rush blindly ahead. 18. Stop gesturing wildly—it makes you look unhinged. 19. Follow the law. 20. If you're wronged, make peace. If you're insulted, stand your ground.

Thales of Miletus, son of Examius, said:

1. Don't act as a guarantor—you're just setting yourself up for a wreck. 2. Remember the friends who are standing by you and the ones who aren't. 3. Stop worrying about your outward image; focus on being a leader worth following instead. 4. Don't build wealth through shady means. 5. Make sure your words don't turn those loyal to you against you. 6. Don't hesitate when it comes to looking after your parents. 7. If it’s worthless, don't take it from your father. 8. Treat your parents right, and that’s exactly what your kids will do for you when you're old. 9. Knowing who you really are? That's one of the hardest jobs there is. 10. Nothing beats the rush of actually hitting your goals. 11. Laziness is a dead end. 12. Overdoing it always backfires. 13. A lack of discipline is a heavy weight to carry. 14. Learn the right way, then teach it. 15. Even if you strike it rich, don't let yourself get lazy. 16. Keep your family's dirty laundry behind closed doors. 17. It’s better to be envied than pitied. 18. Know when to draw the line. 19. Don't take everyone at their word. 20. If you're going to give orders, make sure you can actually follow them yourself.

Pitacus of Miletus, son of Iros, said:

Here’s some unsolicited wisdom—take it or leave it: 1. Recognize a lucky break when it hits you. Don't ignore it. 2. Keep your mouth shut about your plans. If you brag and then fail? You're just an easy target for everyone to laugh at. 3. Surround yourself with people who actually matter. 4. Don't hold others to standards you won't meet yourself. It’s hypocritical. 5. Don't tolerate laziness. That kind of rot eventually brings down everything around it. 6. Return what you borrowed. Simple as that. 7. Learn to swallow the small annoyances people throw your way. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. 8. Don't trash talk a friend or play nice with an enemy. Both are signs of someone who lacks basic judgment. 9. Nobody can predict the future—nobody. But if you look at how things played out in the past, you might actually stand a chance at seeing what's coming. 10. The ground beneath your feet stays put, but the ocean? You can't trust it for a second. 11. Greed is a bottomless pit. It never stops wanting more. 12. Actually own your stuff. Don't live life on credit or through someone else's hands. 13. Focus on the real essentials: compassion, raising kids right, wisdom, facts, trust, experience, skill, friendship, integrity, precision, keeping a home, and knowing your craft. Everything else is just noise.

f) Bijant of Byzantium, son of Teuta, said:

1. Most people are crooked. 2. He says you need to look in the mirror: if you look good, do good things; if you look ugly, let your integrity fix your natural flaws. 3. Approach your work slowly—but once you start, go all in. 4. Avoid mindless chatter so you don't screw up, because regret follows fast. 5. Don't be stupid or malicious. 6. Don't act without thinking. 7. Value common sense. 8. Acknowledge the existence of the gods. 9. Reflect on what you've actually done. 10. Be a careful listener. 11. Speak only when it makes sense. 12. If you're broke, don't envy the rich—there's nothing in it for you. 13. Don't praise a worthless man just because he has money. 14. Win people over through persuasion, not force. 15. When you nail a job, give the credit to the gods, not yourself. 16. Aim for success in youth, and wisdom in old age. 17. Give lasting recognition to hard work, caution to good fortune, nobility of soul to character, moderation to effort, mercy to fear, friendship to wealth, persuasion to speech, composure to silence, justice to reason, courage to boldness, strength to action, and supremacy to fame.

g) Pericles of Corinth, son of Kypselos, said:

1. Look out for everyone. 2. There’s beauty in stillness. 3. Recklessness is dangerous. 4. Profiting through shame is a loss. 5. * an indictment of nature. 6. Democracy beats tyranny every time. 7. Possessions die, but virtue is immortal. 8. When you're winning, stay level-headed; when you're losing, stay sensible. 9. It's better to die powerful than to live in want. 10. Prepare yourself to be worthy of being a parent. 11. While you're alive, let people praise you; once you're gone, let them think you were blessed. 12. Stick by your friends whether times are good or bad. 13. Whatever you've personally agreed to—keep it; breaking your own word is dangerous. 14. Don't spread private conversations. 15. Criticize in a way that suggests you intend to become a friend immediately. 16. Follow the old laws, but eat fresh food. 17. Don't just punish those who commit errors, but also those who have the capacity to make them. 18. Keep your troubles to yourself so you don't end up feeding your enemies.
Joseph Murphy10 Joseph Murphy10 Active Member
102 messages
joined Dec 2020
#17 ·
@Joseph Murphy10
Nice.

Sent from my Galaxy S9 using Reddit
ruggedraven36 ruggedraven36 Regular
331 messages
joined Dec 2015
#18 ·
Joseph Murphy10 said:The Greeks put Socrates on trial, and honestly? The guy was such a genius that he basically saw the death penalty as a triple win. First, he finally got away from those shallow, cheap, shady, and straight-up moronic crowds. Second, he finally escaped his loudmouthed, angry, and total nightmare of a wife—Xanthippe. And third—the best part—he didn't have to deal with the misery of getting old. Seriously, smartest guy to ever live.

That’s exactly why Spinoza was so sharp—he skipped the marriage and dodged that whole university grind.

So, smart-ass Abelard wanted to teach at some big-shot university—you know, chase that prestige and glory—and he goes and marries Heloise. Now look at him. He totally blew it and lost his junk in the process.

Just something to think about.

First off, Xanthippe wasn't some "wicked" woman—not by a long shot. Second, the Greeks weren't just some group of shallow, cheap, shady idiots. They actually had legitimate reasons to convict him. Honestly, they probably would have let him walk if he hadn't spent half his time mocking them.
Richard Palmer55 Richard Palmer55 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Oct 2020
#19 ·
mistybison said:A conversation recently broke out on "religion" regarding whether a religious person can truly be considered wise. After a bit of back-and-forth, we reached the consensus that everyone defines wisdom differently, which naturally dictates their view on whether faith and wisdom can coexist.

Since philosophy is fundamentally defined as the love of wisdom, this seems like the perfect venue to pin down what that term actually signifies. 🙂

How would you define wisdom? 🙂


Wisdom is simply a collection of traits found in an emotionally mature individual.
I would highlight knowledge, gentleness, the ability to listen, and purity.
Purity—both spiritual and physical.
Harold Doyle3 Harold Doyle3 Active Member
216 messages
joined Aug 2006
#20 ·
ruggedraven36 said:Seems weird to me too. But honestly—as far as I can tell—no nation around here actually has its own resident sage these days.

It’s likely due to that recent dark chapter in German history.

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