Curfew restrictions: Is it legal to leave your house?

In my opinion, they should have sat everyone down at a table to figure out which municipalities don't have their own pharmacy and then just scrap the permits for those specific areas. That’s where the real work needs to happen. Everything else is just noise; without fixing that, you aren't getting anywhere. It's like saying you can't live without a grocery store—sure, technically true, but I doubt there's a single town in this country that doesn't have one.

First off, I’m not even going to dignify certain points with a response. Your entire contribution to this discussion seems to boil down to labeling anyone who disagrees with you as "selfish," which—frankly—is all you've offered. Engaging with that kind of mindless deflection isn't worth my time. I will, however, add this: if there is a genuine opportunity to swap one policy for an alternative that is just as effective at preventing infection but carries a significantly lighter burden on the economy, how on earth is that being selfish? Isn't it actually more selfish to insist on a harsher measure that threatens to push a massive portion of our citizens below the poverty line?

Jerry Robinson56 said:I am neither reproaching nor lecturing you. My apologies if it came across that way. They aren't breaking any laws—though I suppose I don't need to cite Article 52 of the Police Act for you.
It is simply an idiot from a larger stable of idiots, defending the President’s "wisdom" (which is a value judgment, not a fact), throwing obstacles in the way of the only logical course of action that could have been taken.

Could you please repeat yourself? If there are no eyes left to see, then of course there is no point.

Of course they aren't; it wouldn't be expected otherwise. It's not as if a mandatory curfew and state-mandated distribution of essentials wouldn't be deemed problematic too. I am looking at this as a choice between leaving things to fate or strictly managing a quarantine. Most people aren't reacting based on policy; they are reacting because of those who have "personal" grievances and feel a sense of self-importance... much like those incompetent taxi drivers who shouldn't be behind a wheel. Thus, my earlier assertion holds true— s e l f - i n t e r e s t —is the driving force behind the critics.

You’re philosophizing... your detachment from reality is quite palpable.

The nature of this complex virus is interesting enough on its own regarding its transmission and speed... these comparisons are simply a distraction from the topic at hand.

Perhaps, if you find yourself siding with the oppressors...

🙄that happens constantly, regardless of the circumstances. Why don't you tell us who you voted for in the runoff... as for me, I crossed out both names on the ballot.

Under the Emergency Management Act, a certain amount of authority was transferred to civil defense units—though whether that's even legal is debatable, since any law infringing on fundamental rights would require a two-thirds majority in Congress, but let's set that aside for a moment and assume they managed it. Even so, certain powers weren't included in that transfer; for instance, the authority to declare a quarantine rests solely with the Secretary of Health. Yet, we saw the head of a local county task force—not even a national one—declare a quarantine on Manhattan Island, despite having no such power. The task force claimed everything was strictly by the book, only for a bill to be introduced in Congress last week proposing amendments to the Infectious Disease Protection Act that would allow those specific powers to be handed over to the task force—powers they supposedly already possessed. It's a complete shell game. If anyone is playing games here, it's the administration playing against itself. They are likely setting the stage to make Beroš the scapegoat; if things work out and he turns against the party, he officially signed nothing, but if the plan fails, the public eye will fall squarely on him.

So, while we are in the thick of fighting a pandemic, they are busy with cheap political maneuvering, and you have the audacity to accuse the President—who has barely even appeared in public—of playing these games!?

Jerry Robinson56 said:I am neither reproaching nor lecturing you. My apologies if it came across that way. They aren't breaking any laws—though I suppose I don't need to cite Article 52 of the Police Act for you.
It is simply an idiot from a larger stable of idiots, defending the President’s "wisdom" (which is a value judgment, not a fact), throwing obstacles in the way of the only logical course of action that could have been taken.

Could you please repeat yourself? If there are no eyes left to see, then of course there is no point.

Of course they aren't; it wouldn't be expected otherwise. It's not as if a mandatory curfew and state-mandated distribution of essentials wouldn't be deemed problematic too. I am looking at this as a choice between leaving things to fate or strictly managing a quarantine. Most people aren't reacting based on policy; they are reacting because of those who have "personal" grievances and feel a sense of self-importance... much like those incompetent taxi drivers who shouldn't be behind a wheel. Thus, my earlier assertion holds true— s e l f - i n t e r e s t —is the driving force behind the critics.

You’re philosophizing... your detachment from reality is quite palpable.

The nature of this complex virus is interesting enough on its own regarding its transmission and speed... these comparisons are simply a distraction from the topic at hand.

Perhaps, if you find yourself siding with the oppressors...

🙄that happens constantly, regardless of the circumstances. Why don't you tell us who you voted for in the runoff... as for me, I crossed out both names on the ballot.

I am under no obligation to propose measures, nor am I required to prove anything to someone who does nothing but spit on others and slap labels on them. If you're so curious, feel free to visit my profile and use the "show user posts" feature; I certainly have no intention of digging through yours.

Jerry Robinson56 said:I am neither reproaching nor lecturing you. My apologies if it came across that way. They aren't breaking any laws—though I suppose I don't need to cite Article 52 of the Police Act for you.
It is simply an idiot from a larger stable of idiots, defending the President’s "wisdom" (which is a value judgment, not a fact), throwing obstacles in the way of the only logical course of action that could have been taken.

Could you please repeat yourself? If there are no eyes left to see, then of course there is no point.

Of course they aren't; it wouldn't be expected otherwise. It's not as if a mandatory curfew and state-mandated distribution of essentials wouldn't be deemed problematic too. I am looking at this as a choice between leaving things to fate or strictly managing a quarantine. Most people aren't reacting based on policy; they are reacting because of those who have "personal" grievances and feel a sense of self-importance... much like those incompetent taxi drivers who shouldn't be behind a wheel. Thus, my earlier assertion holds true— s e l f - i n t e r e s t —is the driving force behind the critics.

You’re philosophizing... your detachment from reality is quite palpable.

The nature of this complex virus is interesting enough on its own regarding its transmission and speed... these comparisons are simply a distraction from the topic at hand.

Perhaps, if you find yourself siding with the oppressors...

🙄that happens constantly, regardless of the circumstances. Why don't you tell us who you voted for in the runoff... as for me, I crossed out both names on the ballot.

You wrote that people who feel the state isn't protecting them have the right to take matters into their own hands. That is deeply disturbing for two reasons:
1.) It’s practically a call for a mob to take over, which is deeply unsettling in its own right.
2.) According to what you're saying, it doesn't even matter if they're actually right; all that matters is that they *feel* they are. Good grief, man, every paranoid conspiracy theorist out there thinks the government is out to get them!

Jerry Robinson56 said:I am neither reproaching nor lecturing you. My apologies if it came across that way. They aren't breaking any laws—though I suppose I don't need to cite Article 52 of the Police Act for you.
It is simply an idiot from a larger stable of idiots, defending the President’s "wisdom" (which is a value judgment, not a fact), throwing obstacles in the way of the only logical course of action that could have been taken.

Could you please repeat yourself? If there are no eyes left to see, then of course there is no point.

Of course they aren't; it wouldn't be expected otherwise. It's not as if a mandatory curfew and state-mandated distribution of essentials wouldn't be deemed problematic too. I am looking at this as a choice between leaving things to fate or strictly managing a quarantine. Most people aren't reacting based on policy; they are reacting because of those who have "personal" grievances and feel a sense of self-importance... much like those incompetent taxi drivers who shouldn't be behind a wheel. Thus, my earlier assertion holds true— s e l f - i n t e r e s t —is the driving force behind the critics.

You’re philosophizing... your detachment from reality is quite palpable.

The nature of this complex virus is interesting enough on its own regarding its transmission and speed... these comparisons are simply a distraction from the topic at hand.

Perhaps, if you find yourself siding with the oppressors...

🙄that happens constantly, regardless of the circumstances. Why don't you tell us who you voted for in the runoff... as for me, I crossed out both names on the ballot.

Sure, it happens constantly, but that isn't an excuse to just sit back and let it slide—especially not right now. Your logic here is exactly the same as those people who say, "So what? People are dying anyway."

Jerry Robinson56 said:I am neither reproaching nor lecturing you. My apologies if it came across that way. They aren't breaking any laws—though I suppose I don't need to cite Article 52 of the Police Act for you.
It is simply an idiot from a larger stable of idiots, defending the President’s "wisdom" (which is a value judgment, not a fact), throwing obstacles in the way of the only logical course of action that could have been taken.

Could you please repeat yourself? If there are no eyes left to see, then of course there is no point.

Of course they aren't; it wouldn't be expected otherwise. It's not as if a mandatory curfew and state-mandated distribution of essentials wouldn't be deemed problematic too. I am looking at this as a choice between leaving things to fate or strictly managing a quarantine. Most people aren't reacting based on policy; they are reacting because of those who have "personal" grievances and feel a sense of self-importance... much like those incompetent taxi drivers who shouldn't be behind a wheel. Thus, my earlier assertion holds true— s e l f - i n t e r e s t —is the driving force behind the critics.

You’re philosophizing... your detachment from reality is quite palpable.

The nature of this complex virus is interesting enough on its own regarding its transmission and speed... these comparisons are simply a distraction from the topic at hand.

Perhaps, if you find yourself siding with the oppressors...

🙄that happens constantly, regardless of the circumstances. Why don't you tell us who you voted for in the runoff... as for me, I crossed out both names on the ballot.

What’s next, are you going to ask if my grandfather was a Nazi or a Communist?!

stormybadger8 said:If you want a policy to actually work, it needs a damn target. You can't just throw restrictions at everything and hope they stick. It has to be aimed at something specific, and honestly, in situations like this, the oversight needs to be incredibly tight. ☕
How can anyone not see this? The guy clearly hasn't a clue, and apparently, our brilliant Minister doesn't either.

That policy doesn't actually target anything. It’s based on "residency," which is a joke. On one hand, you’ve got Washington, D.C. with a million people, and on the other, you have tiny rural towns with maybe a hundred souls. It's meaningless.
And when it doesn't matter to anyone else either, then it's pretty obvious this "measure" isn't actually aimed at anything at all.
It literally makes zero sense. They left movement completely unrestricted in the biggest hotspots with the highest infection rates—even in Washington, D.C., where there are a million people just wandering around like nothing's happening.

Even more importantly, there’s zero way to actually enforce this "famous" measure. Controlling something like this is basically impossible unless we start begging the US government to lend us their entire police force, the military, and all their high-tech gear. Only then—and that's a huge if—would we maybe, just maybe, have enough boots on the ground to pull it off.
Drop the link to the map. I mean, you can't even tell how many there are in the photo unless you zoom in...


So, those green lines represent the municipal borders we're supposed to be watching. If they actually want this movement ban to work as a controlled measure, they’d better start by actually monitoring those boundaries and the movement itself first. 🙂
It’d be pretty interesting if someone actually sat down and crunched the numbers to figure out the physical distance here. We could even start a betting pool to see how many miles it really takes to cover it. What do you think—is it more or less than... 62 miles ?

Maybe if we actually imported enough military and police force from the US, we might stand a chance at controlling this measure...
Then we’ve got this other headache: that famous "golden ticket" issued by a massive, bloated mess of employers, task forces, doctors, and whatever else.
So, I guess we also have to keep an eye on them and their issuance if we want this to actually be some kind of controlled measure.

And then, just to top it all off, they’ll probably expect us to be out there on the ground manually verifying those permits too. Great.

You're talking about a policy that’s a complete joke. It’s literally impossible to enforce, let alone actually control. Total farce.
This isn't some "controlled measure." It’s pure, unadulterated chaos that nobody can actually manage, and all it’s achieved is a massive, pointless waste of money.
The effect was exactly the same as if Beroš had just calmly asked everyone to stay put. Honestly, his polite request probably would've kept people from moving even more than this whole "measure" nonsense did.

It’s all a bit of an educated guess, I realize, but I decided to run some quick math myself based on the original measurements:

In the US, we have about 555 municipalities and cities. Let’s assume an average municipality has roughly 10 checkpoints—which, frankly, feels like a conservative estimate given that larger cities have way more, while those small towns tucked away near the mountain ranges have fewer due to the geography. If we consider that some of them are smaller hubs where a single officer can monitor both directions most of the day (essentially covering two towns at once), and then you have the bigger ones where you need one officer per direction, that brings us to needing 6 officers per shift. That totals 3,330 officers per shift just to secure all those checkpoints.

On the flip side, we've got 20,000 people currently stuck in quarantine. This essentially means that if we were to redistribute those 3,330 officers (per shift, mind you, not the total force) to instead monitor the folks in isolation, each officer would only be responsible for checking on 6 people. Since most of these people are clustered together in groups—families, neighbors, and whatnot—it translates to this: the exact same number of police officers currently busy guarding checkpoints between towns could monitor EVERY SINGLE person under quarantine orders to ensure they aren't peeking their noses out. And honestly, there’d likely still be plenty of personnel left over to help deliver groceries and medicine to those who can't get out to grab them.

Matthew Jackson2 said:It’s all a bit of an educated guess, I realize, but I decided to run some quick math myself based on the original measurements:

In the US, we have about 555 municipalities and cities. Let’s assume an average municipality has roughly 10 checkpoints—which, frankly, feels like a conservative estimate given that larger cities have way more, while those small towns tucked away near the mountain ranges have fewer due to the geography. If we consider that some of them are smaller hubs where a single officer can monitor both directions most of the day (essentially covering two towns at once), and then you have the bigger ones where you need one officer per direction, that brings us to needing 6 officers per shift. That totals 3,330 officers per shift just to secure all those checkpoints.

On the flip side, we've got 20,000 people currently stuck in quarantine. This essentially means that if we were to redistribute those 3,330 officers (per shift, mind you, not the total force) to instead monitor the folks in isolation, each officer would only be responsible for checking on 6 people. Since most of these people are clustered together in groups—families, neighbors, and whatnot—it translates to this: the exact same number of police officers currently busy guarding checkpoints between towns could monitor EVERY SINGLE person under quarantine orders to ensure they aren't peeking their noses out. And honestly, there’d likely still be plenty of personnel left over to help deliver groceries and medicine to those who can't get out to grab them.

Look, sorry, but awarding 10 points to a single municipality would only make sense if our towns were actually functioning properly. Given how things stand, 5 is a much more realistic number. My own area sits at 5, and it isn't even a small one. Most of the surrounding ones have about 4 each..

It's not that I don't think this whole system should be scrapped—or at least shifted up to the county level—but let's be honest here. Today, a "municipality" is basically just three tiny villages clustered along the same stretch of highway. Ten points? Give me a break..

People from the Midwest come down to the coast and are forced into quarantine, yet folks living by the beach get passes to head up to Washington, D.C. for the weekend, only to return straight to work without any isolation period... what kind of logic is that??

This is the second time I’ve heard this exact same claim.

Where on earth are you getting the idea that people traveling from the Midwest have to go into self-isolation just because they decided to head to the coast for vacation? Who exactly is dictating those isolation rules—some police patrol out on the highway???

Matthew Jackson2 said:First off, I’m not even going to dignify certain points with a response. Your entire contribution to this discussion seems to boil down to labeling anyone who disagrees with you as "selfish," which—frankly—is all you've offered. Engaging with that kind of mindless deflection isn't worth my time. I will, however, add this: if there is a genuine opportunity to swap one policy for an alternative that is just as effective at preventing infection but carries a significantly lighter burden on the economy, how on earth is that being selfish? Isn't it actually more selfish to insist on a harsher measure that threatens to push a massive portion of our citizens below the poverty line?

Under the Emergency Management Act, a certain amount of authority was transferred to civil defense units—though whether that's even legal is debatable, since any law infringing on fundamental rights would require a two-thirds majority in Congress, but let's set that aside for a moment and assume they managed it. Even so, certain powers weren't included in that transfer; for instance, the authority to declare a quarantine rests solely with the Secretary of Health. Yet, we saw the head of a local county task force—not even a national one—declare a quarantine on Manhattan Island, despite having no such power. The task force claimed everything was strictly by the book, only for a bill to be introduced in Congress last week proposing amendments to the Infectious Disease Protection Act that would allow those specific powers to be handed over to the task force—powers they supposedly already possessed. It's a complete shell game. If anyone is playing games here, it's the administration playing against itself. They are likely setting the stage to make Beroš the scapegoat; if things work out and he turns against the party, he officially signed nothing, but if the plan fails, the public eye will fall squarely on him.

So, while we are in the thick of fighting a pandemic, they are busy with cheap political maneuvering, and you have the audacity to accuse the President—who has barely even appeared in public—of playing these games!?

I am under no obligation to propose measures, nor am I required to prove anything to someone who does nothing but spit on others and slap labels on them. If you're so curious, feel free to visit my profile and use the "show user posts" feature; I certainly have no intention of digging through yours.

You wrote that people who feel the state isn't protecting them have the right to take matters into their own hands. That is deeply disturbing for two reasons:
1.) It’s practically a call for a mob to take over, which is deeply unsettling in its own right.
2.) According to what you're saying, it doesn't even matter if they're actually right; all that matters is that they *feel* they are. Good grief, man, every paranoid conspiracy theorist out there thinks the government is out to get them!

Sure, it happens constantly, but that isn't an excuse to just sit back and let it slide—especially not right now. Your logic here is exactly the same as those people who say, "So what? People are dying anyway."

What’s next, are you going to ask if my grandfather was a Nazi or a Communist?!

🙄

Matthew Jackson2 said:First off, I’m not even going to dignify certain points with a response. Your entire contribution to this discussion seems to boil down to labeling anyone who disagrees with you as "selfish," which—frankly—is all you've offered. Engaging with that kind of mindless deflection isn't worth my time. I will, however, add this: if there is a genuine opportunity to swap one policy for an alternative that is just as effective at preventing infection but carries a significantly lighter burden on the economy, how on earth is that being selfish? Isn't it actually more selfish to insist on a harsher measure that threatens to push a massive portion of our citizens below the poverty line?

Under the Emergency Management Act, a certain amount of authority was transferred to civil defense units—though whether that's even legal is debatable, since any law infringing on fundamental rights would require a two-thirds majority in Congress, but let's set that aside for a moment and assume they managed it. Even so, certain powers weren't included in that transfer; for instance, the authority to declare a quarantine rests solely with the Secretary of Health. Yet, we saw the head of a local county task force—not even a national one—declare a quarantine on Manhattan Island, despite having no such power. The task force claimed everything was strictly by the book, only for a bill to be introduced in Congress last week proposing amendments to the Infectious Disease Protection Act that would allow those specific powers to be handed over to the task force—powers they supposedly already possessed. It's a complete shell game. If anyone is playing games here, it's the administration playing against itself. They are likely setting the stage to make Beroš the scapegoat; if things work out and he turns against the party, he officially signed nothing, but if the plan fails, the public eye will fall squarely on him.

So, while we are in the thick of fighting a pandemic, they are busy with cheap political maneuvering, and you have the audacity to accuse the President—who has barely even appeared in public—of playing these games!?

I am under no obligation to propose measures, nor am I required to prove anything to someone who does nothing but spit on others and slap labels on them. If you're so curious, feel free to visit my profile and use the "show user posts" feature; I certainly have no intention of digging through yours.

You wrote that people who feel the state isn't protecting them have the right to take matters into their own hands. That is deeply disturbing for two reasons:
1.) It’s practically a call for a mob to take over, which is deeply unsettling in its own right.
2.) According to what you're saying, it doesn't even matter if they're actually right; all that matters is that they *feel* they are. Good grief, man, every paranoid conspiracy theorist out there thinks the government is out to get them!

Sure, it happens constantly, but that isn't an excuse to just sit back and let it slide—especially not right now. Your logic here is exactly the same as those people who say, "So what? People are dying anyway."

What’s next, are you going to ask if my grandfather was a Nazi or a Communist?!

It is perfectly clear that you lack comprehension and are solely focused on your own perspective. Furthermore, you clearly neglect to read the necessary material required to be coherent. From this exchange, it is evident that you embody everything I have observed.

Nicole Lee74 said:In my opinion, they should have sat everyone down at a table to figure out which municipalities don't have their own pharmacy and then just scrap the permits for those specific areas. That’s where the real work needs to happen. Everything else is just noise; without fixing that, you aren't getting anywhere. It's like saying you can't live without a grocery store—sure, technically true, but I doubt there's a single town in this country that doesn't have one.

🙂 Precisely, though that task falls to the local administrative levels, who are supposed to report directly to the central task force. Unfortunately, the very people tasked with relaying this information are often the ones entrenched in bureaucracy or simply incompetent. Therein lies the fundamental problem.

Nicholas King said:This is the second time I’ve heard this exact same claim.

Where on earth are you getting the idea that people traveling from the Midwest have to go into self-isolation just because they decided to head to the coast for vacation? Who exactly is dictating those isolation rules—some police patrol out on the highway???

Right, because clearly the police at checkpoints are out there stopping cars specifically to hand out quarantine orders...

stormybadger8 said:If you want a policy to actually work, it needs a damn target. You can't just throw restrictions at everything and hope they stick. It has to be aimed at something specific, and honestly, in situations like this, the oversight needs to be incredibly tight. ☕
How can anyone not see this? The guy clearly hasn't a clue, and apparently, our brilliant Minister doesn't either.

That policy doesn't actually target anything. It’s based on "residency," which is a joke. On one hand, you’ve got Washington, D.C. with a million people, and on the other, you have tiny rural towns with maybe a hundred souls. It's meaningless.
And when it doesn't matter to anyone else either, then it's pretty obvious this "measure" isn't actually aimed at anything at all.
It literally makes zero sense. They left movement completely unrestricted in the biggest hotspots with the highest infection rates—even in Washington, D.C., where there are a million people just wandering around like nothing's happening.

Even more importantly, there’s zero way to actually enforce this "famous" measure. Controlling something like this is basically impossible unless we start begging the US government to lend us their entire police force, the military, and all their high-tech gear. Only then—and that's a huge if—would we maybe, just maybe, have enough boots on the ground to pull it off.
Drop the link to the map. I mean, you can't even tell how many there are in the photo unless you zoom in...


So, those green lines represent the municipal borders we're supposed to be watching. If they actually want this movement ban to work as a controlled measure, they’d better start by actually monitoring those boundaries and the movement itself first. 🙂
It’d be pretty interesting if someone actually sat down and crunched the numbers to figure out the physical distance here. We could even start a betting pool to see how many miles it really takes to cover it. What do you think—is it more or less than... 62 miles ?

Maybe if we actually imported enough military and police force from the US, we might stand a chance at controlling this measure...
Then we’ve got this other headache: that famous "golden ticket" issued by a massive, bloated mess of employers, task forces, doctors, and whatever else.
So, I guess we also have to keep an eye on them and their issuance if we want this to actually be some kind of controlled measure.

And then, just to top it all off, they’ll probably expect us to be out there on the ground manually verifying those permits too. Great.

You're talking about a policy that’s a complete joke. It’s literally impossible to enforce, let alone actually control. Total farce.
This isn't some "controlled measure." It’s pure, unadulterated chaos that nobody can actually manage, and all it’s achieved is a massive, pointless waste of money.
The effect was exactly the same as if Beroš had just calmly asked everyone to stay put. Honestly, his polite request probably would've kept people from moving even more than this whole "measure" nonsense did.

This measure has no objective? I will concede that the lack of control is problematic, primarily because it permits the unbridled whims of clergy to go unchecked... a sort of spiritual message, I suppose.
What is missing here is feedback.

stormybadger8 said:If you want a policy to actually work, it needs a damn target. You can't just throw restrictions at everything and hope they stick. It has to be aimed at something specific, and honestly, in situations like this, the oversight needs to be incredibly tight. ☕
How can anyone not see this? The guy clearly hasn't a clue, and apparently, our brilliant Minister doesn't either.

That policy doesn't actually target anything. It’s based on "residency," which is a joke. On one hand, you’ve got Washington, D.C. with a million people, and on the other, you have tiny rural towns with maybe a hundred souls. It's meaningless.
And when it doesn't matter to anyone else either, then it's pretty obvious this "measure" isn't actually aimed at anything at all.
It literally makes zero sense. They left movement completely unrestricted in the biggest hotspots with the highest infection rates—even in Washington, D.C., where there are a million people just wandering around like nothing's happening.

Even more importantly, there’s zero way to actually enforce this "famous" measure. Controlling something like this is basically impossible unless we start begging the US government to lend us their entire police force, the military, and all their high-tech gear. Only then—and that's a huge if—would we maybe, just maybe, have enough boots on the ground to pull it off.
Drop the link to the map. I mean, you can't even tell how many there are in the photo unless you zoom in...


So, those green lines represent the municipal borders we're supposed to be watching. If they actually want this movement ban to work as a controlled measure, they’d better start by actually monitoring those boundaries and the movement itself first. 🙂
It’d be pretty interesting if someone actually sat down and crunched the numbers to figure out the physical distance here. We could even start a betting pool to see how many miles it really takes to cover it. What do you think—is it more or less than... 62 miles ?

Maybe if we actually imported enough military and police force from the US, we might stand a chance at controlling this measure...
Then we’ve got this other headache: that famous "golden ticket" issued by a massive, bloated mess of employers, task forces, doctors, and whatever else.
So, I guess we also have to keep an eye on them and their issuance if we want this to actually be some kind of controlled measure.

And then, just to top it all off, they’ll probably expect us to be out there on the ground manually verifying those permits too. Great.

You're talking about a policy that’s a complete joke. It’s literally impossible to enforce, let alone actually control. Total farce.
This isn't some "controlled measure." It’s pure, unadulterated chaos that nobody can actually manage, and all it’s achieved is a massive, pointless waste of money.
The effect was exactly the same as if Beroš had just calmly asked everyone to stay put. Honestly, his polite request probably would've kept people from moving even more than this whole "measure" nonsense did.

Here we see yet another collision in your logic. Population density plays no role in the initial spread of an infection; it is solely dependent on individual movement.
Is that difficult to comprehend?

stormybadger8 said:If you want a policy to actually work, it needs a damn target. You can't just throw restrictions at everything and hope they stick. It has to be aimed at something specific, and honestly, in situations like this, the oversight needs to be incredibly tight. ☕
How can anyone not see this? The guy clearly hasn't a clue, and apparently, our brilliant Minister doesn't either.

That policy doesn't actually target anything. It’s based on "residency," which is a joke. On one hand, you’ve got Washington, D.C. with a million people, and on the other, you have tiny rural towns with maybe a hundred souls. It's meaningless.
And when it doesn't matter to anyone else either, then it's pretty obvious this "measure" isn't actually aimed at anything at all.
It literally makes zero sense. They left movement completely unrestricted in the biggest hotspots with the highest infection rates—even in Washington, D.C., where there are a million people just wandering around like nothing's happening.

Even more importantly, there’s zero way to actually enforce this "famous" measure. Controlling something like this is basically impossible unless we start begging the US government to lend us their entire police force, the military, and all their high-tech gear. Only then—and that's a huge if—would we maybe, just maybe, have enough boots on the ground to pull it off.
Drop the link to the map. I mean, you can't even tell how many there are in the photo unless you zoom in...


So, those green lines represent the municipal borders we're supposed to be watching. If they actually want this movement ban to work as a controlled measure, they’d better start by actually monitoring those boundaries and the movement itself first. 🙂
It’d be pretty interesting if someone actually sat down and crunched the numbers to figure out the physical distance here. We could even start a betting pool to see how many miles it really takes to cover it. What do you think—is it more or less than... 62 miles ?

Maybe if we actually imported enough military and police force from the US, we might stand a chance at controlling this measure...
Then we’ve got this other headache: that famous "golden ticket" issued by a massive, bloated mess of employers, task forces, doctors, and whatever else.
So, I guess we also have to keep an eye on them and their issuance if we want this to actually be some kind of controlled measure.

And then, just to top it all off, they’ll probably expect us to be out there on the ground manually verifying those permits too. Great.

You're talking about a policy that’s a complete joke. It’s literally impossible to enforce, let alone actually control. Total farce.
This isn't some "controlled measure." It’s pure, unadulterated chaos that nobody can actually manage, and all it’s achieved is a massive, pointless waste of money.
The effect was exactly the same as if Beroš had just calmly asked everyone to stay put. Honestly, his polite request probably would've kept people from moving even more than this whole "measure" nonsense did.

🤦

stormybadger8 said:If you want a policy to actually work, it needs a damn target. You can't just throw restrictions at everything and hope they stick. It has to be aimed at something specific, and honestly, in situations like this, the oversight needs to be incredibly tight. ☕
How can anyone not see this? The guy clearly hasn't a clue, and apparently, our brilliant Minister doesn't either.

That policy doesn't actually target anything. It’s based on "residency," which is a joke. On one hand, you’ve got Washington, D.C. with a million people, and on the other, you have tiny rural towns with maybe a hundred souls. It's meaningless.
And when it doesn't matter to anyone else either, then it's pretty obvious this "measure" isn't actually aimed at anything at all.
It literally makes zero sense. They left movement completely unrestricted in the biggest hotspots with the highest infection rates—even in Washington, D.C., where there are a million people just wandering around like nothing's happening.

Even more importantly, there’s zero way to actually enforce this "famous" measure. Controlling something like this is basically impossible unless we start begging the US government to lend us their entire police force, the military, and all their high-tech gear. Only then—and that's a huge if—would we maybe, just maybe, have enough boots on the ground to pull it off.
Drop the link to the map. I mean, you can't even tell how many there are in the photo unless you zoom in...


So, those green lines represent the municipal borders we're supposed to be watching. If they actually want this movement ban to work as a controlled measure, they’d better start by actually monitoring those boundaries and the movement itself first. 🙂
It’d be pretty interesting if someone actually sat down and crunched the numbers to figure out the physical distance here. We could even start a betting pool to see how many miles it really takes to cover it. What do you think—is it more or less than... 62 miles ?

Maybe if we actually imported enough military and police force from the US, we might stand a chance at controlling this measure...
Then we’ve got this other headache: that famous "golden ticket" issued by a massive, bloated mess of employers, task forces, doctors, and whatever else.
So, I guess we also have to keep an eye on them and their issuance if we want this to actually be some kind of controlled measure.

And then, just to top it all off, they’ll probably expect us to be out there on the ground manually verifying those permits too. Great.

You're talking about a policy that’s a complete joke. It’s literally impossible to enforce, let alone actually control. Total farce.
This isn't some "controlled measure." It’s pure, unadulterated chaos that nobody can actually manage, and all it’s achieved is a massive, pointless waste of money.
The effect was exactly the same as if Beroš had just calmly asked everyone to stay put. Honestly, his polite request probably would've kept people from moving even more than this whole "measure" nonsense did.

But where exactly should those passes be monitored?

stormybadger8 said:If you want a policy to actually work, it needs a damn target. You can't just throw restrictions at everything and hope they stick. It has to be aimed at something specific, and honestly, in situations like this, the oversight needs to be incredibly tight. ☕
How can anyone not see this? The guy clearly hasn't a clue, and apparently, our brilliant Minister doesn't either.

That policy doesn't actually target anything. It’s based on "residency," which is a joke. On one hand, you’ve got Washington, D.C. with a million people, and on the other, you have tiny rural towns with maybe a hundred souls. It's meaningless.
And when it doesn't matter to anyone else either, then it's pretty obvious this "measure" isn't actually aimed at anything at all.
It literally makes zero sense. They left movement completely unrestricted in the biggest hotspots with the highest infection rates—even in Washington, D.C., where there are a million people just wandering around like nothing's happening.

Even more importantly, there’s zero way to actually enforce this "famous" measure. Controlling something like this is basically impossible unless we start begging the US government to lend us their entire police force, the military, and all their high-tech gear. Only then—and that's a huge if—would we maybe, just maybe, have enough boots on the ground to pull it off.
Drop the link to the map. I mean, you can't even tell how many there are in the photo unless you zoom in...


So, those green lines represent the municipal borders we're supposed to be watching. If they actually want this movement ban to work as a controlled measure, they’d better start by actually monitoring those boundaries and the movement itself first. 🙂
It’d be pretty interesting if someone actually sat down and crunched the numbers to figure out the physical distance here. We could even start a betting pool to see how many miles it really takes to cover it. What do you think—is it more or less than... 62 miles ?

Maybe if we actually imported enough military and police force from the US, we might stand a chance at controlling this measure...
Then we’ve got this other headache: that famous "golden ticket" issued by a massive, bloated mess of employers, task forces, doctors, and whatever else.
So, I guess we also have to keep an eye on them and their issuance if we want this to actually be some kind of controlled measure.

And then, just to top it all off, they’ll probably expect us to be out there on the ground manually verifying those permits too. Great.

You're talking about a policy that’s a complete joke. It’s literally impossible to enforce, let alone actually control. Total farce.
This isn't some "controlled measure." It’s pure, unadulterated chaos that nobody can actually manage, and all it’s achieved is a massive, pointless waste of money.
The effect was exactly the same as if Beroš had just calmly asked everyone to stay put. Honestly, his polite request probably would've kept people from moving even more than this whole "measure" nonsense did.

This is merely the beginning; the sequel follows once the feedback arrives. One ought to have started somewhere, specifically with organizational units—local municipalities. Don't lecture me on psychology or requests; you can clearly see how many self-important intellectuals with "grand ideas" populate this forum. It is true that "bureaucracy does its thing"...

Think about the situation for a moment... and look at the statistics, regardless of their relativity...

Jerry Robinson56 said:🙂 Precisely, though that task falls to the local administrative levels, who are supposed to report directly to the central task force. Unfortunately, the very people tasked with relaying this information are often the ones entrenched in bureaucracy or simply incompetent. Therein lies the fundamental problem.

So, I'm reading Capak right now, and he's claiming one of the first things they'll ease up on is public transit. Seriously, could someone please explain to me how there's somehow less of a risk of getting infected on a bus than if you just drove from Petrijevac to Josipovac—two neighboring towns—without a permit?🤔

Joseph Taylor11 said:Where exactly is the epicenter?🤦

I can't help but wonder what exactly is going on in those pockets of Virovitina-Podravina or Požega-Slavonia. I mean, we’ve been sitting here for a month and a half since that first case popped up, and they're still seeing three or four infections pop up. It makes you think.
So, here it is—they've officially banned travel between municipalities in those counties just to try and quarantine this massive outbreak. Only three cases... in the entire county.!! 🤦

You seem to have overlooked the word "isolation." I suspect you didn't quite grasp the implication.

That decision rests with the local county administration, and we all know the reputation of the folks in Virovitina; they are a total nightmare crew.

Tyler Vaughn7 said:So, I'm reading Capak right now, and he's claiming one of the first things they'll ease up on is public transit. Seriously, could someone please explain to me how there's somehow less of a risk of getting infected on a bus than if you just drove from Petrijevac to Josipovac—two neighboring towns—without a permit?🤔

The risk of contagion isn't determined by the sheer volume of people present; rather, it rests entirely upon the behavior of those who are already infected....that is only the beginning. You have everything laid out right before your eyes.
It is tragically absurd to attempt a comparison between a small rural town and Washington, D.C. It isn't a matter of mere population statistics; it is about the fundamental necessity of infrastructure and systemic functionality. That being said, I suppose I understand why one might lean into such a caricature.
As I have already stated—this issue is fundamentally a matter for the lower levels of the hierarchy.

Richard Campbell3 said:Right, because clearly the police at checkpoints are out there stopping cars specifically to hand out quarantine orders...

And what exactly is the source for this claim? I mean, do you have a specific example—like when, where, or who exactly was involved..?

Richard Campbell3 said:Right, because clearly the police at checkpoints are out there stopping cars specifically to hand out quarantine orders...

I mean, seriously, I could just stand outside a CVS and start handing out prescriptions myself if that's how this works... 🙂

wearywolf252 said:Look, sorry, but awarding 10 points to a single municipality would only make sense if our towns were actually functioning properly. Given how things stand, 5 is a much more realistic number. My own area sits at 5, and it isn't even a small one. Most of the surrounding ones have about 4 each..

It's not that I don't think this whole system should be scrapped—or at least shifted up to the county level—but let's be honest here. Today, a "municipality" is basically just three tiny villages clustered along the same stretch of highway. Ten points? Give me a break..

That's a very rough estimate, and it might be off, but you have to consider that there are plenty of cities pulling up the average. Then you've got all those gravel roads and little local lanes that need monitoring—roads people don't even realize exist until they hit a pothole. They might not need constant eyes on them, but they definitely need periodic checks. If you're going to ignore all those local routes that the residents rely on, then you might as well just let people drive straight through into the next town without any oversight at all.

Now, part of that responsibility, especially in the mountain regions, has been handed over to the U.S. Census Bureau, but the Bureau is standing there ready to help, and that's just another resource being wasted if we don't use it right.

Anyone have any idea how long it usually takes to process an e-portal request submitted in Washington, D.C.?

Tyler Vaughn7 said:So, I'm reading Capak right now, and he's claiming one of the first things they'll ease up on is public transit. Seriously, could someone please explain to me how there's somehow less of a risk of getting infected on a bus than if you just drove from Petrijevac to Josipovac—two neighboring towns—without a permit?🤔

Just when you think it’s physically impossible to sink any lower, someone goes and proves you wrong.

Jerry Robinson56 said:🙄

It is perfectly clear that you lack comprehension and are solely focused on your own perspective. Furthermore, you clearly neglect to read the necessary material required to be coherent. From this exchange, it is evident that you embody everything I have observed.

Oh, and if you actually bothered to read with any real comprehension what you were supposed to read to maintain some level of sanity, instead of just lazily slapping a label on anyone who disagrees with you...

Do you even pause to question the measures being taken or the rhetoric being pushed? If they told you tomorrow that the virus only spreads through your right hand and we all need to chop it off to stop the spread, you'd probably just head to the garage to grab a saw, wouldn't you?

Do you have any actual experience in leadership or crisis management? In an acute crisis, you have to act fast and decisively. At that stage, people tend to trust the authority inherent in a position or a title.

However, once a crisis transitions into a chronic phase—which is exactly what has happened here in the US—people start questioning that authority. At that point, mere titles don't carry weight anymore; people demand expertise. They want answers, and they start asking "how much longer." I'm not saying the task force lacks experts—there might be some folks in there twisting facts to suit their own agendas and obstructing the real professionals (which we see clearly through these political games played within the ruling circles)—but they are definitively failing to communicate the situation in a way that builds public trust. Even they have admitted it. How many times have we heard them say, "We are epidemiologists, not communications experts"?

Look, someone doesn't necessarily need to be an expert in both fields, but the task force absolutely must have someone capable of communicating effectively, otherwise, they simply lose all credibility.

Jerry Robinson56 said:🙂 Precisely, though that task falls to the local administrative levels, who are supposed to report directly to the central task force. Unfortunately, the very people tasked with relaying this information are often the ones entrenched in bureaucracy or simply incompetent. Therein lies the fundamental problem.

And whose job is it to organize the structure and functionality of those "lower levels"? The task force is composed of cabinet secretaries whose departments aren't structured or organized in a functional way, and that is the real reason this isn't working. If you hire someone mentally incapable, someone without even a high school diploma, to manage a nuclear power plant, then when a nuclear disaster happens, it isn't the fault of that individual—it's the fault of the person who put them in that position in the first place... and that's the real catch.

Jerry Robinson56 said:This measure has no objective? I will concede that the lack of control is problematic, primarily because it permits the unbridled whims of clergy to go unchecked... a sort of spiritual message, I suppose.
What is missing here is feedback.

Here we see yet another collision in your logic. Population density plays no role in the initial spread of an infection; it is solely dependent on individual movement.
Is that difficult to comprehend?

🤦

But where exactly should those passes be monitored?

This is merely the beginning; the sequel follows once the feedback arrives. One ought to have started somewhere, specifically with organizational units—local municipalities. Don't lecture me on psychology or requests; you can clearly see how many self-important intellectuals with "grand ideas" populate this forum. It is true that "bureaucracy does its thing"...

Think about the situation for a moment... and look at the statistics, regardless of their relativity...

With this massive volume of passes being issued, the current method of control is completely futile. The police rarely check everyone, and scanning a QR code is more the exception than the rule. Essentially, if I was granted a pass yesterday, but today I've been ordered into self-isolation, the chances of me getting caught using that pass—which looks valid but has been electronically revoked (though I sincerely hope they revoke them electronically the moment a measure is imposed)—are incredibly slim.

One of my suggestions was actually for the police to repurpose those surveillance vans used for traffic enforcement, but to expand the system so it tracks license plates belonging to people under quarantine and their families too. You’d need far fewer officers on the street, and it would be a much more efficient way to catch folks who are blatantly violating their isolation orders.

Jerry Robinson56 said:The risk of contagion isn't determined by the sheer volume of people present; rather, it rests entirely upon the behavior of those who are already infected....that is only the beginning. You have everything laid out right before your eyes.
It is tragically absurd to attempt a comparison between a small rural town and Washington, D.C. It isn't a matter of mere population statistics; it is about the fundamental necessity of infrastructure and systemic functionality. That being said, I suppose I understand why one might lean into such a caricature.
As I have already stated—this issue is fundamentally a matter for the lower levels of the hierarchy.

Well, the risk of infection—and even the severity of the symptoms you end up with—depends entirely on the viral load you're exposed to. If you just walk past three infected people in a park, you have a much lower chance of catching it than if you're sitting on a bus for thirty minutes just three meters away from one infected person; in the latter case, you're inhaling a significantly higher concentration of the virus. And if you do get sick in both scenarios, the second case will likely hit you harder with more complications. There are actual studies that back this up.

Jerry Robinson56 said:The risk of contagion isn't determined by the sheer volume of people present; rather, it rests entirely upon the behavior of those who are already infected....that is only the beginning. You have everything laid out right before your eyes.
It is tragically absurd to attempt a comparison between a small rural town and Washington, D.C. It isn't a matter of mere population statistics; it is about the fundamental necessity of infrastructure and systemic functionality. That being said, I suppose I understand why one might lean into such a caricature.
As I have already stated—this issue is fundamentally a matter for the lower levels of the hierarchy.

Sure, that's the starting point, but what follows is that you can end up with a massive swarm of asymptomatic spreaders. At that stage, your only real options are either a total, prolonged lockdown (if we even had the capacity to pull that off, which we might have tried) or a much more aggressive testing regimen combined with precise contact tracing, which has proven to be the most effective measure.

On top of that, one of our leading epidemiologists made this statement (while trying to explain why we aren't testing enough):

Italy tested a huge number of people, and you see what's happening there now. Germany only tests those with symptoms, and so far, they seem to have a somewhat better situation.

The truth was that we weren't testing much back then simply because we didn't have the resources to do more. I don't think she's a bad epidemiologist because of that specific comment—though, frankly, an epidemiologist shouldn't let a statement like that slip out—but I do think she's a poor leader. A true leader needs to be able to own up to their mistakes, as well as the problems they currently have no control over. A good leader would have said something along the lines of:

We are fully aware that our testing numbers are low, and we are working tirelessly to increase our capacity. Once we boost that capacity, we'll have a much stronger tool to combat the epidemic. However, it is important to note that this isn't a reason to panic, as we are closely monitoring the situation through several other indicators.

Jerry Robinson56 said:The risk of contagion isn't determined by the sheer volume of people present; rather, it rests entirely upon the behavior of those who are already infected....that is only the beginning. You have everything laid out right before your eyes.
It is tragically absurd to attempt a comparison between a small rural town and Washington, D.C. It isn't a matter of mere population statistics; it is about the fundamental necessity of infrastructure and systemic functionality. That being said, I suppose I understand why one might lean into such a caricature.
As I have already stated—this issue is fundamentally a matter for the lower levels of the hierarchy.

If the number of people doesn't matter, then what's the point of staying home? What's the point of banning gatherings? Are you trying to suggest that because a city needs public transit to function, we should all just act perfectly civilized on the go while the rest of us rural folks stay stuck at home? Is that it? Just so we can demonstrate how all these mandates can be carried out?🤦