Caught completely off guard

Morgan Peterson6 said:I have to admit, that gave me a lot to think about—he really knows how to throw me for a loop.
He isn't "depressed" in the traditional sense, though; he talks to me about it constantly. If his friends heard him, they'd be totally shocked because, on the surface, he functions just fine.
I'm an optimist through and through, and I try with everything I have to show him a different perspective, but nothing works.
I didn't mean to bring this up in the psychology thread, but I really think the root of his struggle is that he hasn't found anything meaningful in his spiritual search.

He keeps telling me there *has* to be something—some higher purpose for why we're even here—but he just can't see it.

The other day we were talking about birds—I absolutely love them! I was telling him how incredible it is that such tiny brains possess that kind of intelligence, like how they navigate perfectly... how the creator designed everything so flawlessly. But to him? It's all just "programming," blah blah blah.
He's obsessed with this idea of programming and how we aren't truly free...

He might finally be realizing that spirituality itself can be an illusion. 🙂

he keeps bringing up these programs and our lack of freedom...

But who exactly is being denied freedom? 🙂

It seems odd that someone so immersed in spirituality would be so unsettled by the concept of freedom or lack thereof.

Perhaps you could encourage him to join the forum so we can offer some support.

Morgan Peterson6 said:Just thinking about it...
humanity is just broken,
and honestly? I feel sick right along with it.
It hurts—really hurts.
I can't even fix myself,
so how am I supposed to heal the rest of the world?

The tears are already starting to fall—it’s heavy.

Where on earth does he get these bizarre ideas?!

Humanity is doing just fine. 🙂 Our population is higher than ever. 😁

Perhaps he should spend less time consuming sensationalist news and doom-scrolling through various catastrophes... That tendency is usually reserved for people who find satisfaction in morbidity.

Morgan Peterson6 said:Just thinking about it...
humanity is just broken,
and honestly? I feel sick right along with it.
It hurts—really hurts.
I can't even fix myself,
so how am I supposed to heal the rest of the world?

The tears are already starting to fall—it’s heavy.

The misery of selfish people is pretty damn real. So is the suffering of those bloated egos trying to use "spirituality" as a way to build their own little gated communities. A mortal being doesn't have the luxury of sitting around wallowing in depression or playing the victim.
Just tell them a decent joke; if they can't even crack a smile, they're too far gone. Get out of there before you get sucked into the void too...

Morgan Peterson6 said:Just thinking about it...
humanity is just broken,
and honestly? I feel sick right along with it.
It hurts—really hurts.
I can't even fix myself,
so how am I supposed to heal the rest of the world?

The tears are already starting to fall—it’s heavy.

It’s complicated. But honestly, life should be simple. Until a person learns to appreciate the beauty in the most mundane, everyday things, no amount of spiritual wisdom is ever going to provide any real relief.
And if you ask me, life is overrated; there isn't some grand, cosmic purpose waiting under every rock. There is just suffering—and quite a lot of it. If someone tries to deny that reality or refuses to face it, they only end up making their own misery much worse.
It sounds to me like your friend has reached that age where all the illusions finally start to shatter. It's that inevitable moment when you realize there is no "Holy Grail" out there waiting to satisfy the cravings you had in your youth. All those spiritual practices aren't meant to unlock the ultimate secrets of life and death; they are simply tools to help you navigate the day and make existence slightly more bearable. He has completely misinterpreted the whole concept (which is quite typical for those who approach spirituality with too much idealism). Now, his entire worldview has collapsed, and he’s forced to start from scratch. It is a deeply painful crossroads: he has to accept that life isn't the idealized version he constructed in his mind, and that all those books he pored over and all those philosophies he leaned on were nothing more than soap bubbles.
The crux of the matter is acceptance. He needs to reach that point where he accepts things exactly as they are, rather than wasting energy lamenting why they couldn't be different.

Besides, he isn't exactly a rare breed... I know plenty of people back home who are exactly like him. Some manage to float through these feelings and eventually find joy and meaning, while others just become an increasing burden to themselves and everyone around them.

I honestly don't know how much you can actually do for him, because, in a way, he feeds on these very emotions. I suspect it will take a significant, unavoidable life crisis to finally knock him back onto the right track.

hiddenpuma75 said:It seems Beljki is right there with me in my own ignorance on this one. Beljki also has a real distaste for psychiatry.🤣

He just tends to use those fancy linguistic structures, throwing in terms like "cognitive" just to make things sound more academic than they actually are.😁

As for me, I’ve never stepped foot in a psychiatrist's office because, honestly, it always seemed like a total waste of time.

Between the high costs and being pumped full of meds that just give you a temporary illusion of feeling better, it's a lot.

Besides, it’s an open secret that people have the capacity—and the responsibility—to help themselves.

Just look at the classic movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. A much better remedy than any shrink is finding community, staying active through sports, getting out into the mountains, or even just having a pet. Those are the true cures for all those imaginary ailments we obsess over.

MOTIKA 👍

The bottom line:

When a person finally learns to stop obsessing over themselves and lets their mind wander freely, the problems tend to fade away.😉

I think this might be the first time you and I have actually seen eye to eye on something.
Maybe the end of the world really is just around the corner this time.

Joseph Bailey41 said:I think this might be the first time you and I have actually seen eye to eye on something.
Maybe the end of the world really is just around the corner this time.

Are you agreeing just with the shovel part, or the whole post? 🤔

Aside from that, I’d say you and I have agreed on quite a few things over time, though we’ve definitely clashed on plenty of others too.🤷

bluemason3 said:Would you turn down a gastroenterologist for diabetes, a cast for a broken bone, glasses for vision issues, or wound care after an amputation?

There isn't really a fundamental difference when it comes to psychiatry and medication.

If anything, the issue is that at our current stage of development, diagnosing neurotransmitter imbalances is incredibly difficult. For instance, the only way I know to actually measure serotonin levels—which is used in some research settings—is through spinal fluid sampling. That’s far too invasive and impractical for routine diagnosis.
As a result, most treatments currently rely on symptomatic assessment followed by trial and error. This leaves a lot of room for mistakes and long waiting periods before finding the right approach.

Still, there isn't a better alternative, and principle-wise, I don't see a specific problem here. If there is one, I’d say it’s the irrational resistance and the unfounded attempt to separate psychological processes from physiological ones.

If someone refuses treatment, I don't see how listening to people rambling on a forum—people who don't know them and lack any expertise to offer advice—is going to help. Just deal with it.
To be clear, I'm not implying that pharmacotherapy is the absolute best solution in this specific case, but none of us here can actually know or assess that. A decent psychiatrist will send a patient through a battery of tests—medical ones to rule out organic causes like thyroid issues, plus psychological testing and interviews—and then they'll likely adjust the medication over time. I don't see how laypeople on a forum can speculate about what's happening based on just a few sentences in an opening post.

One could potentially take a roundabout route by seeing a psychiatrist who also practices psychotherapy in a direction that aligns with their worldview (there are quite a few who flirt with philosophy and spirituality, and much of New Age spirituality actually stems from humanistic schools of psychotherapy)), and who won't jump straight to medication (which is sometimes prescribed unnecessarily), to suggest therapy instead. However, you won't get that covered by Medicare.

Right... I suppose a shattered soul resulting from the sheer weight of realization is just like a broken arm—you just set it, put it in a cast, and wait about two months for it to mend.

Parsifal gave the author the single best piece of advice possible.

Look, I don't think your friend is necessarily wrong, but if this common-sense approach from Parsifal isn't working—and frankly, I doubt it can—then she needs actual psychiatric medication.

Take a friend of mine, for example; he isn't suicidal, he’s actually quite functional in his day-to-day survival, yet he tells me he is simply "waiting for death." That is truly how he lives. His main struggle was insomnia, so his psychiatrist prescribed Seroquel. It certainly helped him pass the time while waiting for the end.

It’s a terrible situation, the fact that your friend even has a family to deal with.

Anthony Perez9 said:Get him professional help immediately. If he refuses, you need to distance yourself before his darkness starts pulling you under too. Try hitting him with pure optimism and laughter to shock the system, but honestly? He might just run away from you because he’s addicted to his own misery. He loves her too much... and now he's trapped in that loop. There are just as many reasons to be a pessimist as there are to be an optimist. Just choose life.

Exactly.

It’s pretty interesting how it seems like more and more people are actually killing their own sense of purpose by drowning themselves in this endless mountain of self-help books and spiritual guides... you know, searching for a "path" through all that paper clutter until the whole concept just loses its soul. I can't help but wonder why that happens...
Maybe it's because they're hunting for the wrong things entirely because, look, no matter how massive the selection of literature gets, there aren't any concrete answers tucked away in some chapter, there are no definitive instruction manuals, no guarantees of success, no shortcuts, and certainly nothing "quick-fix" style that most people seem to crave... plus, they're looking for these answers in other people instead of digging deep within themselves. I mean, sure, reading about someone else's philosophy or life lessons is fine—it helps us piece together our own little life puzzles—but at the end of the day, we have to be the ones to put those pieces together ourselves. Because nobody else can live your life for you, and we have to design and build our own existence without waiting for a savior to do it for us. We all have the same agency here—we all have our own thoughts and we all decide how we're going to react to whatever situation life throws our way... so, I think it's better to just gracefully accept that we're solely responsible for our own lives and then just give it everything we've got to live as best we can, without getting too bogged down in the heavy labels of "spirituality" or "finding a path," since that's really just another way of describing how a human being lives as a spiritual, mental, and physical entity...

The guy being discussed here loves music, so honestly, let him lose himself in it! Let him find whatever else makes him feel fulfilled and happy, because that's the only way he'll truly heal himself and eventually start putting out those positive vibes toward everyone else.
Think locally, act globally! 😉

So, tell me—is this friend of yours actually employed? Does he have an actual job, or does he just spend his entire existence sitting around reading books?

"Worked to death"—what is that even supposed to mean? Is he killing himself through sheer exhaustion, or is someone else driving him into the ground?

rustymaker5 said:It’s pretty interesting how it seems like more and more people are actually killing their own sense of purpose by drowning themselves in this endless mountain of self-help books and spiritual guides... you know, searching for a "path" through all that paper clutter until the whole concept just loses its soul. I can't help but wonder why that happens...
Maybe it's because they're hunting for the wrong things entirely because, look, no matter how massive the selection of literature gets, there aren't any concrete answers tucked away in some chapter, there are no definitive instruction manuals, no guarantees of success, no shortcuts, and certainly nothing "quick-fix" style that most people seem to crave... plus, they're looking for these answers in other people instead of digging deep within themselves. I mean, sure, reading about someone else's philosophy or life lessons is fine—it helps us piece together our own little life puzzles—but at the end of the day, we have to be the ones to put those pieces together ourselves. Because nobody else can live your life for you, and we have to design and build our own existence without waiting for a savior to do it for us. We all have the same agency here—we all have our own thoughts and we all decide how we're going to react to whatever situation life throws our way... so, I think it's better to just gracefully accept that we're solely responsible for our own lives and then just give it everything we've got to live as best we can, without getting too bogged down in the heavy labels of "spirituality" or "finding a path," since that's really just another way of describing how a human being lives as a spiritual, mental, and physical entity...

The guy being discussed here loves music, so honestly, let him lose himself in it! Let him find whatever else makes him feel fulfilled and happy, because that's the only way he'll truly heal himself and eventually start putting out those positive vibes toward everyone else.
Think locally, act globally! 😉

👍
It was staring me right in the face, and I completely missed it.

mistybison said:He might finally be realizing that spirituality itself can be an illusion. 🙂

he keeps bringing up these programs and our lack of freedom...

But who exactly is being denied freedom? 🙂

It seems odd that someone so immersed in spirituality would be so unsettled by the concept of freedom or lack thereof.

Perhaps you could encourage him to join the forum so we can offer some support.

they used to be here ages ago
and were such an active member

Anthony Perez9 said:The misery of selfish people is pretty damn real. So is the suffering of those bloated egos trying to use "spirituality" as a way to build their own little gated communities. A mortal being doesn't have the luxury of sitting around wallowing in depression or playing the victim.
Just tell them a decent joke; if they can't even crack a smile, they're too far gone. Get out of there before you get sucked into the void too...

he isn't being selfish, not at all
maybe I just totally misread him or described him the wrong way
I think he just talks to me that way...

coastaltiger72 said:So, tell me—is this friend of yours actually employed? Does he have an actual job, or does he just spend his entire existence sitting around reading books?

"Worked to death"—what is that even supposed to mean? Is he killing himself through sheer exhaustion, or is someone else driving him into the ground?

He’s got a job, a family, and pets he absolutely adores—plus he squeezes in sports whenever he can.
He isn't some depressed guy walking around with a dark cloud over his head; you wouldn't even tell by talking to him—he laughs, he jokes...
I was talking to him yesterday, and when I told him he sounded depressed, he just said, "No, I'm just sad."
He says that after everything he's searched for, there's just this emptiness inside him.
There's nothing left to hold onto.
He just doesn't see the point in existing anymore.

He's really into that whole New Age thing—not like following gurus or those weird authors, but more about how we perceive our origins and where we go once we leave this dimension.
He thinks we're all just puppets in some kind of Matrix.
And honestly? That's what's killing him.

I don't know—I'm letting it go. I tried, but it's just not working.

I'm giving up.🙂

I don't even know why I started this thread. I care about him so much, but I just don't have the capacity to help him myself—our perspectives are worlds apart. Everything I say or offer as a solution just doesn't resonate with him because my idea of God and his idea of God are completely different... and frankly, I don't know anything about his version of God, and I'm not a fan of it either.

Morgan Peterson6 said:He’s got a job, a family, and pets he absolutely adores—plus he squeezes in sports whenever he can.
He isn't some depressed guy walking around with a dark cloud over his head; you wouldn't even tell by talking to him—he laughs, he jokes...
I was talking to him yesterday, and when I told him he sounded depressed, he just said, "No, I'm just sad."
He says that after everything he's searched for, there's just this emptiness inside him.
There's nothing left to hold onto.
He just doesn't see the point in existing anymore.

He's really into that whole New Age thing—not like following gurus or those weird authors, but more about how we perceive our origins and where we go once we leave this dimension.
He thinks we're all just puppets in some kind of Matrix.
And honestly? That's what's killing him.

I don't know—I'm letting it go. I tried, but it's just not working.

I'm giving up.🙂

I don't even know why I started this thread. I care about him so much, but I just don't have the capacity to help him myself—our perspectives are worlds apart. Everything I say or offer as a solution just doesn't resonate with him because my idea of God and his idea of God are completely different... and frankly, I don't know anything about his version of God, and I'm not a fan of it either.

That sounds like a smart move. You mentioned earlier that you're a bird lover—do you do any bird feeding? Any particular species you're most fond of?

Morgan Peterson6 said:He’s got a job, a family, and pets he absolutely adores—plus he squeezes in sports whenever he can.
He isn't some depressed guy walking around with a dark cloud over his head; you wouldn't even tell by talking to him—he laughs, he jokes...
I was talking to him yesterday, and when I told him he sounded depressed, he just said, "No, I'm just sad."
He says that after everything he's searched for, there's just this emptiness inside him.
There's nothing left to hold onto.
He just doesn't see the point in existing anymore.

He's really into that whole New Age thing—not like following gurus or those weird authors, but more about how we perceive our origins and where we go once we leave this dimension.
He thinks we're all just puppets in some kind of Matrix.
And honestly? That's what's killing him.

I don't know—I'm letting it go. I tried, but it's just not working.

I'm giving up.🙂

I don't even know why I started this thread. I care about him so much, but I just don't have the capacity to help him myself—our perspectives are worlds apart. Everything I say or offer as a solution just doesn't resonate with him because my idea of God and his idea of God are completely different... and frankly, I don't know anything about his version of God, and I'm not a fan of it either.

You tried. You cannot help someone who isn't looking for help or refuses to take action.

Focus on yourself. Elevate your own life to a higher level. Perhaps that will motivate him to move.

Do not waste your energy on someone who does not value it.

I get the sense that a few people here have painted this guy as being deeply depressed or even suicidal. Honestly, I don't think that's quite right. He isn't more depressed than the average person... he just sounds disillusioned.

That’s just one side of the coin; he needs to find the other.

Someone who has focused intensely on their own niche interests, seen how the gears turn behind the scenes, can't just unsee it. You can't help him the way you're imagining. He has to find his own way through, just like the rest of us. It's exactly what he said: how can he be expected to help someone else if he hasn't figured himself out yet?

It makes sense why he’d avoid seeing a psychiatrist. After all, what is the point of psychiatry? To force a perspective back into socially acceptable boundaries. But he doesn't want to go back there, and frankly, he probably can't. There's a paradox in sending every deviation from the norm to a doctor—who gets to decide what the "true" perspective actually is?

The search lasts a lifetime, but if he keeps looking, he'll find it eventually...

restlessdriver said:I get the sense that a few people here have painted this guy as being deeply depressed or even suicidal. Honestly, I don't think that's quite right. He isn't more depressed than the average person... he just sounds disillusioned.

That’s just one side of the coin; he needs to find the other.

Someone who has focused intensely on their own niche interests, seen how the gears turn behind the scenes, can't just unsee it. You can't help him the way you're imagining. He has to find his own way through, just like the rest of us. It's exactly what he said: how can he be expected to help someone else if he hasn't figured himself out yet?

It makes sense why he’d avoid seeing a psychiatrist. After all, what is the point of psychiatry? To force a perspective back into socially acceptable boundaries. But he doesn't want to go back there, and frankly, he probably can't. There's a paradox in sending every deviation from the norm to a doctor—who gets to decide what the "true" perspective actually is?

The search lasts a lifetime, but if he keeps looking, he'll find it eventually...

...

restlessdriver said:I get the sense that a few people here have painted this guy as being deeply depressed or even suicidal. Honestly, I don't think that's quite right. He isn't more depressed than the average person... he just sounds disillusioned.

That’s just one side of the coin; he needs to find the other.

Someone who has focused intensely on their own niche interests, seen how the gears turn behind the scenes, can't just unsee it. You can't help him the way you're imagining. He has to find his own way through, just like the rest of us. It's exactly what he said: how can he be expected to help someone else if he hasn't figured himself out yet?

It makes sense why he’d avoid seeing a psychiatrist. After all, what is the point of psychiatry? To force a perspective back into socially acceptable boundaries. But he doesn't want to go back there, and frankly, he probably can't. There's a paradox in sending every deviation from the norm to a doctor—who gets to decide what the "true" perspective actually is?

The search lasts a lifetime, but if he keeps looking, he'll find it eventually...

Yeah, exactly.
He's disappointed and sad—not suicidal at all, not dark, and definitely not a psychiatric case. In fact, he's one of the best examples of humanity I've ever had the pleasure of knowing.
He's just going through a massive spiritual crisis and it hurts. And since I'm an empath, I'm right there hurting with him.
you sound just like him:-)

James Miller2 said:You tried. You cannot help someone who isn't looking for help or refuses to take action.

Focus on yourself. Elevate your own life to a higher level. Perhaps that will motivate him to move.

Do not waste your energy on someone who does not value it.

Oh, he definitely appreciates it! :-)