Question about atheists

wiredfalcon2 said:And who gets to decide what counts as a "triviality," Gregory Jackson? Billions of believers celebrate a completely made-up date for Christ's birth, and every high-ranking church official uses televised specials to reach people during Christmas... clearly, it's a huge deal when it comes to religious moments and living out one's faith.

I guess it's more about celebrating the actual birth and the arrival itself rather than the specific calendar date, you know? I mean, it could honestly be any day for all we know. We can't really go blaming the Roman Empire for not keeping perfect records, because they probably didn't think anyone would even care about having a precise date two thousand years down the line. Jack, people didn't even have last names back then—it was just a first name and maybe a nickname or something...

Gregory Jackson said:I guess it's more about celebrating the actual birth and the arrival itself rather than the specific calendar date, you know? I mean, it could honestly be any day for all we know. We can't really go blaming the Roman Empire for not keeping perfect records, because they probably didn't think anyone would even care about having a precise date two thousand years down the line. Jack, people didn't even have last names back then—it was just a first name and maybe a nickname or something...

Jewish people handle these kinds of things with extreme pedantry.

There’s simply no logic to it. An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in God. If you actually believe in God but act out of pure hostility toward Him, you're a Misotheist.

Whenever I bring up the idea that religious devotion can sometimes feel a bit intellectually stunted, I immediately get hit with a barrage of "counter-arguments."
So, let me just toss out two quick thoughts—feel free to expand on them if you have that kind of religious spirit (though, honestly, I’m not holding my breath for any groundbreaking insights!!):

First off, there's this whole concept of love for God.
The thing is, loving God feels like it's being coerced by force. I mean, despite all that talk about having "free will," if you don't love Him, you end up in hell.
To put it in terms that might be easier for believers to grasp—let me ask you this: am I allowed to simply *not* love God?
Just purely on my own terms, without facing any punishment.

Then there's the matter of loving people.
Again, since some believers struggle with the nuances here: what happens to the atheists? The ones who don't care for God but absolutely adore humanity??
What good is God to me if my heart is already full of love for my fellow man?!
And really, which deity out there actually rewards a genuine love for humanity more than anyone else??

(By the way—this whole notion of "emotional intelligence"... and all those other various "intelligences"... they were all dreamed up by people who tried their hardest to be smart, failed miserably according to their own test results, and now are desperately trying to find some way to claim they're actually intelligent.)

EQ is definitely a thing. (Like, take
Sheldon as a stereotype, though he's not really an example)
SQ? That's debatable. (Spiritual intelligence stuff)

Gregory Jackson said:I feel like once you truly wrap your head around how karma works, you'll finally get what I'm talking about, especially regarding that whole connection between karma and free will.

But, honestly, I think it’s probably just a waste of energy to try and hash this out with an atheist who hasn't had even a single moment of spiritual insight or an open mind. I don't mean to be rude or anything, I really don't, but our perspectives are just so incredibly far apart that there isn't much ground to cover here, which is just a reality of life. Anyway, have a nice life! 🙂

When an idealistic system hits a dead end, it tends to introduce unprovable "X-factors" to bridge the gap.
It's like saying someone will finally get it once they acknowledge the influence of a cosmic unicorn. These ideas act as placeholders, using fantasy to resolve the friction between reality and flawed models used to describe it.
Of course, that's a simplification. Those models likely serve their own psychological and sociological purposes, regardless of whether they actually hold water.

Talking to believers who haven't developed a critical lens through spiritual experience is a lost cause. Without some kind of mediating filter, they tend to overvalue their perceptions while assuming everyone else is just missing something. It's a classic psychological loop—claiming something unsubstantiated as proof, then dismissing anyone with a different view just to protect that shaky logic.

Bryan King3 said:Whenever I bring up the idea that religious devotion can sometimes feel a bit intellectually stunted, I immediately get hit with a barrage of "counter-arguments."
So, let me just toss out two quick thoughts—feel free to expand on them if you have that kind of religious spirit (though, honestly, I’m not holding my breath for any groundbreaking insights!!):

First off, there's this whole concept of love for God.
The thing is, loving God feels like it's being coerced by force. I mean, despite all that talk about having "free will," if you don't love Him, you end up in hell.
To put it in terms that might be easier for believers to grasp—let me ask you this: am I allowed to simply *not* love God?
Just purely on my own terms, without facing any punishment.

Then there's the matter of loving people.
Again, since some believers struggle with the nuances here: what happens to the atheists? The ones who don't care for God but absolutely adore humanity??
What good is God to me if my heart is already full of love for my fellow man?!
And really, which deity out there actually rewards a genuine love for humanity more than anyone else??

(By the way—this whole notion of "emotional intelligence"... and all those other various "intelligences"... they were all dreamed up by people who tried their hardest to be smart, failed miserably according to their own test results, and now are desperately trying to find some way to claim they're actually intelligent.)

1) You're certainly allowed to here—though maybe not in paradise. God doesn't really punish, I suppose. No matter what you do, God can't love you any more or less than He does right now; it's already at maximum.
2) Loving yourself is probably a good starting point—then loving others follows. You and they are God, I guess. Just loving is enough. Consciousness will come eventually.
3) You don't really need Him until you feel that specific need—at least, you can feel that way here.
4) There is only one. He can't really reward you more than what you were given at the very beginning. Back then, you received Everything.

Bryan King3 said:Whenever I bring up the idea that religious devotion can sometimes feel a bit intellectually stunted, I immediately get hit with a barrage of "counter-arguments."
So, let me just toss out two quick thoughts—feel free to expand on them if you have that kind of religious spirit (though, honestly, I’m not holding my breath for any groundbreaking insights!!):

First off, there's this whole concept of love for God.
The thing is, loving God feels like it's being coerced by force. I mean, despite all that talk about having "free will," if you don't love Him, you end up in hell.
To put it in terms that might be easier for believers to grasp—let me ask you this: am I allowed to simply *not* love God?
Just purely on my own terms, without facing any punishment.

Then there's the matter of loving people.
Again, since some believers struggle with the nuances here: what happens to the atheists? The ones who don't care for God but absolutely adore humanity??
What good is God to me if my heart is already full of love for my fellow man?!
And really, which deity out there actually rewards a genuine love for humanity more than anyone else??

(By the way—this whole notion of "emotional intelligence"... and all those other various "intelligences"... they were all dreamed up by people who tried their hardest to be smart, failed miserably according to their own test results, and now are desperately trying to find some way to claim they're actually intelligent.)

There isn't much to unpack there, because you've basically just built a contradiction right into the sentence.

Love doesn't play by the rules of force or commands.

Lisa Jackson7 said:I didn't see any kind of dilemma from DeVinci—not based on anything he’s posted in this thread.

Never heard of Meher Baba before, but I get where he's coming from regarding all those rituals—though honestly, I think you just need to find a balance... especially in this sense.

Religion without Spirituality | Spirituality without Religion Quote : if The essence of spirituality is The search to know Our true selves , then know that its a Life Long process , and perhaps IT requires many births and rebirths ( only god completely knows The true mystery of Our Soul and its evolutionary process of merging with Truth -> Religion without Spirituality | Spirituality without Religion Quote

If the essence of spirituality is the search to know Our true selves, then know that its a Life Long process, and perhaps IT requires many births and rebirths (only God completely knows The true mystery of Our Soul and its evolutionary process of merging with Truth -> Religion without Spirituality | Spirituality without Religion Quote Cut the act—you don't need to play-act some super deep, "enlightened" persona just because you're chasing personal nirvana. That’s just straight-up narcissism. You can't force meditation any more than you can force yourself to reach actual spirituality—it just doesn't work like that. Honestly, all you really need is just to stay awake to life—and more importantly, to actually be aware of who you are.

So, what’s the move after this? Simple—it's time to serve.

And there it is—the absolute grip religion has on people. Organized religion in all forms and tradition does a very good job aspiring The faithful into that. It sets the stage—gives us the structure and the groundwork we need to actually exist in this world and get to work. It's about being able to serve others. That’s how you actually serve the Creator—by showing up for the people around you.

People call themselves "spiritual" while totally ignoring the person cleaning their house for pennies—just paying next to nothing for actual hard work—only to drop thousands on some fancy trip to visit a random tomb halfway across the world. Or they'll skip helping hungry kids or the homeless right on their own street just to book another flight to join some "spiritual group." Honestly, that's sol nonsense in The Eye of Beloved, who cries at the suffering of humanity and laughs at the joyful heart of humanity.

don't you think gladden The Heart of that extremely poor of The humanity was much more important Than going on sol called spiritual travel ( another escape route for selfish luxury

Honestly, this is one of the best takes I’ve read on this subject. Religion without spirituality is just performing dry, empty rituals—do this, do that, blah blah blah—but then again, spirituality on its own can easily turn into nothing more than an excuse for narcissism.

If you're asking if this affects atheists—it doesn't. They aren't even on the train, so they aren't exactly traveling toward the destination. I mean, it’s not quite right to say they’re "wasting time" because honestly, some of them can be incredible people who actually live by the morals their religions preach. They might end up progressing spiritually—sometimes even faster than those followers who just go through the motions of rituals without any actual substance. In some future life, an ex-atheist will eventually jump on one of the trains.

Look, it’s not about whether someone lacks a purpose—whether they're an atheist, a believer, some guy from Alaska, or just works at State Farm, etc.
That's not how I see it.

You don't have to be religious to jump in and help out a charity or a non-profit; an atheist can be perfectly moral and still grow spiritually... honestly, comparing people on that level is just pointless.

But we aren't just talking about one person's spiritual journey—we're talking about the community. Eventually, the morality of a secular society is going to run dry—kind of like a crew on a spaceship who decides to just live off their emergency reserves, thinking they won't ever need a new source... because they're too arrogant to think they'll actually need it.

It's pretty wild to see Christians linking to Muslim websites that explain why pursuing spirituality without religion can be dangerous. Truly priceless. 😂