The Etheric Body

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:Since when did clapping your hands become an ethical violation? Seriously?

You're giving up way too soon. If Fleming had actually stuck strictly to his lab protocols, who knows how much longer we would've been waiting for penicillin.

How so? Don't you realize all that stuff comes from the devil?
True ethics are based on the words of our Good Father—who was a bit high-strung, nearly wiped out all of humanity, and founded the very institution his son later ran,
which, let's be honest, can easily devolve into inquisitions, wars, and covering up predators within its own ranks—all while sitting on massive wealth (spiritual wealth, obviously).
If that doesn't click for you, maybe go talk to your local inquisitor; they'll happily "cleanse" and save your soul.

found said:You're giving up too soon.
...

This isn't some battle about whether I'm giving up or not.
Bell and I have been around this forum long enough to know each other—I respect his take (and honestly, I even agree with him sometimes, even when I don't 😍)—so we're good.
Besides, my experiences are mine alone; I don't need validation from random people on a forum (especially since most of what I post here is just me rehashing old stories anyway).
"Spirituality" can't really be treated as a hard science yet—at least not in the strict, objective, external sense. And let's face it: spiritual types tend to drift into fantasy quite a bit, especially once they start throwing scientific terminology around.
Anyway, if you're actually interested in the topic, check out "Etheric body" by Arthur E. Powell, or "Subtle Body" by David V. Tansley.

PS
A few more thoughts crossed my mind regarding that whole suggestibility thing we were talking about.
There are plenty of scientific studies on the placebo effect.
Most of them conclude that the placebo actually works. Does that mean—given that there’s a partial improvement in health—that it's all just a scam or an illusion, simply because the effects come from suggestion using substances with no actual medicinal properties?

It's a known fact that through focused attention, you can create temperature differences of several degrees in different parts of your body (like between your left and right hand), or use specific visualizations to speed up or slow down your heart rate and brain waves through meditation or prayer.
Does that mean those measured changes in heat, heart rhythm, or brain wave frequency are actually illusory, just because they were produced by the subjective mind of the person being studied?

If, for instance, I imagine I can control my pranic energy to lessen or stop pain, have I objectively reduced the pain, or did I just convince myself that I did?

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:Since when did clapping your hands become an ethical violation? Seriously?

You're giving up way too soon. If Fleming had actually stuck strictly to his lab protocols, who knows how much longer we would've been waiting for penicillin.

Bas Quota 🤣

You're giving up too soon. If Fleming had stuck strictly to lab protocols, who knows how much longer we'd have waited for penicillin.

Non sequitur 😛
If penicillin hadn't been intentionally identified, Fleming would have been dismissed. 😉

Medical history is full of people guessing and speculating. What survived was what could actually be proven, not just every random thought or experiment someone tried.

Rigorous experimentation isn't about the creative phase of finding an idea—whether by design or accident. It’s about the verification, the proof, and the presentation that follows. After that initial fluke, Fleming spent quite a bit of time experimenting and verifying his findings, followed by others doing the same before it ever reached medical use or mass production.

Kevin Ruiz36 said:He’s just being overly critical about spirituality right now. Buddhism seems to fit him best—that whole idea that everything is built on impermanence. 😁 I wonder what other path he'll pivot to once he gets tired of the "nothingness" phase. 🤦 Honestly, he should probably stick with Buddhism long enough to realize there might actually be something found within that void Buddha talked about.

Buddhism itself is loaded with esoteric energies (especially in the Tantric traditions) and all sorts of silly superstitions.

The Buddha wasn't describing some kind of void, and claiming there's "something in nothing" is just a nonsensical oxymoron.

casualtiger2 said:How so? Don't you realize all that stuff comes from the devil?
True ethics are based on the words of our Good Father—who was a bit high-strung, nearly wiped out all of humanity, and founded the very institution his son later ran,
which, let's be honest, can easily devolve into inquisitions, wars, and covering up predators within its own ranks—all while sitting on massive wealth (spiritual wealth, obviously).
If that doesn't click for you, maybe go talk to your local inquisitor; they'll happily "cleanse" and save your soul.

This isn't some battle about whether I'm giving up or not.
Bell and I have been around this forum long enough to know each other—I respect his take (and honestly, I even agree with him sometimes, even when I don't 😍)—so we're good.
Besides, my experiences are mine alone; I don't need validation from random people on a forum (especially since most of what I post here is just me rehashing old stories anyway).
"Spirituality" can't really be treated as a hard science yet—at least not in the strict, objective, external sense. And let's face it: spiritual types tend to drift into fantasy quite a bit, especially once they start throwing scientific terminology around.
Anyway, if you're actually interested in the topic, check out "Etheric body" by Arthur E. Powell, or "Subtle Body" by David V. Tansley.

PS
A few more thoughts crossed my mind regarding that whole suggestibility thing we were talking about.
There are plenty of scientific studies on the placebo effect.
Most of them conclude that the placebo actually works. Does that mean—given that there’s a partial improvement in health—that it's all just a scam or an illusion, simply because the effects come from suggestion using substances with no actual medicinal properties?

It's a known fact that through focused attention, you can create temperature differences of several degrees in different parts of your body (like between your left and right hand), or use specific visualizations to speed up or slow down your heart rate and brain waves through meditation or prayer.
Does that mean those measured changes in heat, heart rhythm, or brain wave frequency are actually illusory, just because they were produced by the subjective mind of the person being studied?

If, for instance, I imagine I can control my pranic energy to lessen or stop pain, have I objectively reduced the pain, or did I just convince myself that I did?

That’s a clever question. Some research suggests this is a matter of dissociation. Your instruments might record physical pain signals traveling through the nervous system, yet the person isn't consciously aware of them. It’s similar to how you might not notice a bruise on your leg because you were too preoccupied with something else when you bumped into a table; you simply didn't register the sensation at that moment.

For instance, if you want to make your hand feel warm, you're essentially trying to trigger physiological relaxation in the circulatory system. There are plenty of ways to pull that trigger. Someone tactile might conjure the physical sensation of warmth in their mind. A visual thinker might imagine fire or another heat source. You could even visualize prana. This doesn't mean there is actual fire or actual prana present; they are just symbols used to trigger specific reactions through the associations we create.

Buddhism lets you imagine whatever the hell you want without getting hooked on it—once you hit that state of absolute freedom (you know, that "things as they really are" vibe, but on a deeper level where you've finally shaken off that tiny little ego). That’s true liberation. And it's about existing, too—it's definitely not that materialist nihilism stuff.
Syncretism is everywhere—honestly, it's just proof that information tends to decay and lose its edge, which is basically just how the laws of physics or the universe work. The whole point is the method you use to get to the goal, and that path can look like pretty much anything. That's what explains the Tibetans, or those shamanic Buddhists, for the most part.
Old-school spirituality is just dead. (My take, based on experience)

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:Since when did clapping your hands become an ethical violation? Seriously?

You're giving up way too soon. If Fleming had actually stuck strictly to his lab protocols, who knows how much longer we would've been waiting for penicillin.

As you can see above, we were discussing third-party suggestion—where it isn't necessarily the individual performing an action themselves, but rather doing so because of an external influence (like during a specific experiment).

In fact, people like that often deal specifically with various types of hypnosis. Or perhaps just self-hypnosis. From an ethical standpoint, that first scenario is highly questionable. Here, the person in the thread is suggesting something under the guise of an experiment. Furthermore, there was mention of how these techniques function at the level of the performer or the hypnotist.

Does that make sense? 🙂

Thomas Nelson25 said:So, basically saying Judo (and there’s plenty of other "ki" or "chi" based stuff out there too) is nothing more than just technique?

..that's my take—even if it's just a suggestion—as long as it fuels you up energetically, that's what matters. That's really the whole point of any spiritual experience, whether it's a specific skill or even medicine.

One should start from the premise that not all "energy" is the same (we actually call it something else, but anyway), and that your etheric body is essentially your own protection—not something meant to be manipulated at will by just anyone (especially not some random charlatan).

It is interesting, though, that only two people here recognized the suggestion for what it truly was.

Suggestion is just a natural mechanism tied to socialization and learning processes.

If you choose to view it as a form of manipulation, then every religious ritual—like a Sunday Mass—every bit of religious indoctrination, and all those stories and myths from the Bible, are essentially forms of hypnosis.

It's basically having a log or a stone in your eye, and that 😁

But that’s not what we’re here for. Let’s stick to discussing the etheric body without cluttering things up with (pseudo)ethics.

Susan Price30 said:One should start from the premise that not all "energy" is the same (we actually call it something else, but anyway), and that your etheric body is essentially your own protection—not something meant to be manipulated at will by just anyone (especially not some random charlatan).

It is interesting, though, that only two people here recognized the suggestion for what it truly was.

I think psychology would call that state "flow."

To put it bluntly, we're talking about a spiritual state if it gets intense enough... whereas the psyche is always stuck on the ego, which isn't really true motivation.

Susan Sullivan6 said:Back in the day, our Jiu-Jitsu crew used to share a gym with a group of Judo practitioners.
To be honest, Judo always looked kind of ridiculous to me. ☕ There’s a massive difference between throwing a partner who’s actually working with you and trying to move against some grumpy old man who’s just digging his heels in to resist you.

I remember one time, our instructor—who was rocking a purple belt at the time—sparred against a black belt from the Judo squad and absolutely tossed him around like he was nothing. 😁

If you actually want to learn how to fight, go with real aikido by Ljubomir Vracarevic. 😬

For everyone else, I’d suggest ki aikido by Koichi Tohei. It stays truer to the spirit of the founder, Morihei Ueshiba; a strange and warlike fellow who happened to be one of those guys prone to making things up:
"I set my mind on budo when I was about 15 and visited teachers of swordmanship and jujitsu in various provinces. I mastered the secrets of the old traditions each within a few months. But there was no one to instruct me in the essence of budo – the only thing that could satisfy my mind. So I knocked on the gates of various religions but I couldn`t get any concrete answers.

Then in the spring of 1925 when I was taking a walk in the garden I felt that the universe suddenly quaked and that a golden spirit sprang up from the ground, veiled my body and changed my body into a golden one. At the same time my mind and body became light. I was able to understand the whispering of the birds, and was clearly aware of the mind of God, the creator of this universe. At that moment I was enlightened. The source of Budo is God's Love. The spirit of loving protection for all beings. Endless tears of joy streamed down my cheeks.

Since that time I have grown to feel that the whole earth is my house and the sun, moon and the stars are all my own things. I had become free from all desire, not only for position, fame and property, but also to be strong. I understood, budo is not felling the opponent by our force, nor it is a tool to lead the world into destruction with arms. True budo is to accept the spirit of the universe, keep the peace of the world, correctly produce, protect and cultivate all things in nature and assimilate and utilize it in our own mind and body

Here are a few more phenomena that could be explained by "energy"—or maybe just suggestion, hypnosis, or plain old physical reflexes.
When someone gets hurt, there’s this natural tendency to grab the injury—maybe rubbing it, maybe not—but mothers especially love to kiss the spot or blow on it.
Another little exercise idea: if you’ve got an ache somewhere, try focusing on your chest for a second. Try to tap into that feeling of being head-over-heels in love, or just a general sense of warmth and affection (doesn't matter how you get there). If—and when—you actually feel that "energy," those tingles, or that "pins and needles" sensation... try directing it straight toward the part of your body that hurts.
Prana is a lot like electricity; it tends to pool in certain spots. Most of the discharge happens at "pointed" areas like your fingertips, or at specific centers like the reproductive organs. A good chunk of it also flows through speech, out the mouth (which is why we have the silence practice, Mauna),
and even through the eyes—which explains that weird sensation of being watched or felt by someone's gaze...

bluemason3, what does your favorite, Ramakrishna, have to say about all this "energy" stuff?

He got a little carried away, honestly.

casualtiger2 said:If you actually want to learn how to fight, go with real aikido by Ljubomir Vracarevic. 😬

For everyone else, I’d suggest ki aikido by Koichi Tohei. It stays truer to the spirit of the founder, Morihei Ueshiba; a strange and warlike fellow who happened to be one of those guys prone to making things up:
"I set my mind on budo when I was about 15 and visited teachers of swordmanship and jujitsu in various provinces. I mastered the secrets of the old traditions each within a few months. But there was no one to instruct me in the essence of budo – the only thing that could satisfy my mind. So I knocked on the gates of various religions but I couldn`t get any concrete answers.

Then in the spring of 1925 when I was taking a walk in the garden I felt that the universe suddenly quaked and that a golden spirit sprang up from the ground, veiled my body and changed my body into a golden one. At the same time my mind and body became light. I was able to understand the whispering of the birds, and was clearly aware of the mind of God, the creator of this universe. At that moment I was enlightened. The source of Budo is God's Love. The spirit of loving protection for all beings. Endless tears of joy streamed down my cheeks.

Since that time I have grown to feel that the whole earth is my house and the sun, moon and the stars are all my own things. I had become free from all desire, not only for position, fame and property, but also to be strong. I understood, budo is not felling the opponent by our force, nor it is a tool to lead the world into destruction with arms. True budo is to accept the spirit of the universe, keep the peace of the world, correctly produce, protect and cultivate all things in nature and assimilate and utilize it in our own mind and body

😁

It’s not even really about whether someone *wants* to fight or not; it’s more about whether the techniques actually work if things ever get messy. And honestly, in that department, Aikido kind of falls short 😁

On a side note, I personally believe there are certain energies in spirituality, sort of like an "etheric" body. 😬

Susan Sullivan6 said:😁

It’s not even really about whether someone *wants* to fight or not; it’s more about whether the techniques actually work if things ever get messy. And honestly, in that department, Aikido kind of falls short 😁

On a side note, I personally believe there are certain energies in spirituality, sort of like an "etheric" body. 😬

A Shaolin? (I mean, there used to be a huge spiritual component to the training—not really anymore, but it was definitely there once)

casualtiger2 said:Here are a few more phenomena that could be explained by "energy"—or maybe just suggestion, hypnosis, or plain old physical reflexes.
When someone gets hurt, there’s this natural tendency to grab the injury—maybe rubbing it, maybe not—but mothers especially love to kiss the spot or blow on it.
Another little exercise idea: if you’ve got an ache somewhere, try focusing on your chest for a second. Try to tap into that feeling of being head-over-heels in love, or just a general sense of warmth and affection (doesn't matter how you get there). If—and when—you actually feel that "energy," those tingles, or that "pins and needles" sensation... try directing it straight toward the part of your body that hurts.
Prana is a lot like electricity; it tends to pool in certain spots. Most of the discharge happens at "pointed" areas like your fingertips, or at specific centers like the reproductive organs. A good chunk of it also flows through speech, out the mouth (which is why we have the silence practice, Mauna),
and even through the eyes—which explains that weird sensation of being watched or felt by someone's gaze...

bluemason3, what does your favorite, Ramakrishna, have to say about all this "energy" stuff?

Honestly? I found out that doing the exact opposite works way better for me. Look, I'm not saying nobody else finds success with the other way, but I stumbled onto this by accident. When I tried focusing on the actual pain, I just couldn't clear my mind, and the pain would just spiral and get worse. So instead, whenever something hurts, I started focusing on whatever part of my body feels the most comfortable at that moment. I just shift my attention around; if that pleasant feeling fades, I move it to another spot. And slowly, the pain just... fades away. I've practiced it so much now that I can do it while walking down the street. I even get those nice little tingles when the pain lets up, like I'm sealing an "energy envelope." It's also great for insomnia. I always wake up in the exact same position I fell asleep in because I relax my body based on where it feels best—not following some strict Yoga Nidra sequence, but just chasing the comfort.

Prana is a bit like electricity; it can pool up in specific spots in the body, and the discharge usually happens at "pointed" areas like your fingertips, certain "energy centers" like the reproductive organs, or through speech—which is why there are exercises centered on silence, or Mauna.
It also moves through the eyes (which explains why you sometimes get that weird vibe that someone is watching you or touching you with their gaze).

I think it's mostly through the eyes.

Thomas Nelson25 said:A Shaolin? (I mean, there used to be a huge spiritual component to the training—not really anymore, but it was definitely there once)

From what I've gathered, their training sessions are absolutely brutal. It doesn't look like some choreographed performance routine like you see in Aikido.

Susan Sullivan6 said:From what I've gathered, their training sessions are absolutely brutal. It doesn't look like some choreographed performance routine like you see in Aikido.

So how do you explain those guys lying on actual sharpened spears without getting impaled?

Look, whether it's just for show or if some Japanese master actually cooked it up... honestly, having seen a few demos, it definitely feels like a performance. Kind of like Karate too.
I already brought up Seagal—those movie scenes are actually somewhat realistic depictions of technique, to an extent.

The thing is, the Japanese basically took that whole spiritual side from the Chinese, which brings in the concept of Qi—or Chi... or even Zen.

I you’re saying the same thing... you aren't quite sure how much of it is actual fact versus just some kind of "movie magic."
It’s totally possible that after a lifetime of grueling training, their bodies just adapt to those kinds of extreme physical demands. Honestly, it's hard to say for sure.

As for Seagal, in any serious martial arts circle, he's considered a total fraud.😬

Susan Sullivan6 said:From what I've gathered, their training sessions are absolutely brutal. It doesn't look like some choreographed performance routine like you see in Aikido.

If that's the case, what on earth was Bruce Lee actually training, besides just acting in movies? 😁

Started out with Wing Chun, then moved into a mix of everything to find my own rhythm—basically early-stage MMA.