Pros and cons of spiritual practices

Why all this philosophizing—I mean, don't you realize that...
...giving someone the chance to actually 'do something' just proves
that the rest of you couldn't care less about them.
So, I suppose an individual will manage just fine without your help.

What was predicted for these modern times?
Maybe that many people would simply put on a show of outward spirituality?
Yes, that was indeed predicted—don't ever forget it.

Maria Robinson2 said:Why all this philosophizing—I mean, don't you realize that...
...giving someone the chance to actually 'do something' just proves
that the rest of you couldn't care less about them.
So, I suppose an individual will manage just fine without your help.

What was predicted for these modern times?
Maybe that many people would simply put on a show of outward spirituality?
Yes, that was indeed predicted—don't ever forget it.

If there’s any kind of "fake" spirituality out there, it’s definitely this whole scene of religious intimidation—you know, just constant fear-mongering and using some terrifying version of God to keep people on a short leash.😉

You’ve gotta be suppressed, you’ve gotta swallow every bit of crap they throw at you, you’ve gotta serve, you’ve gotta stay poor—you basically have to strip away everything that makes you human just to catch a glimpse of paradise... when that kind of rhetoric starts pouring out of the mouths of the people trying to pull the strings, those who only care about power and lining their own pockets, honestly, they say more than enough, don't they? And then there's this whole habit of taking all of that for granted, which is just another classic human failing, a sort of demonic entanglement if you’re the type of person who still believes in demons.😁It’s all just this heavy, suffocating cloudiness that drags you away from anything spiritual, keeps you drifting further and further from God... and honestly, what else is there to it? I mean, think about it—God didn't design anyone to just suffer for the sake of suffering, right? He made us to rise above the pain, to climb out of the mess. Because if that weren't the case, how could we even call Him God? If the creator and the owner of everything was just some cosmic tyrant, then Heaven wouldn't be any better than Hell, would it?😉...

So, who’s actually out here playing philosopher, right? Is it the crowd just repackaging everyone else's ideas and pretending they struck gold, or is it the people actually getting their hands dirty and speaking from real-world experience?☕

Lawrence Torres56 said:It's actually a spiritual advantage because:
1. You're giving them the chance to finally deal with whatever issue
brought them to tears in the first place, instead of drowning them even deeper in
that pit with some fake, saccharine sympathy...
2. Because you're smart enough to know you can't do a damn thing for them if they don't
actually want help themselves.
3. Because you have zero desire to meddle in someone else's business or feed off
their misery for your own ego.

👍

completely correct.

Weighing pros against cons rarely leads to anything particularly productive.
In fact, I suspect most people can't even tell the difference between the two to begin with.
If that's the case—well, it’s just confusion, I guess.

Maria Robinson2 said:Weighing pros against cons rarely leads to anything particularly productive.
In fact, I suspect most people can't even tell the difference between the two to begin with.
If that's the case—well, it’s just confusion, I guess.

Well, Maria Robinson2, you have a point. However, I believe confusion is actually necessary; people naturally want clarity, and they will put in the work to resolve that confusion, which is progress in itself. It’s difficult to even define the advantages and disadvantages of spirituality. Personally, I don't see any downsides—though, if I'm being honest with myself, there are moments where I encounter things I dislike, and I might even feel a sense of self-loathing. But acceptance is the first step, and it gets easier after that.

Faith works for some, while others simply cannot stomach dogmatism and choose to look elsewhere.

The seed is within all of us (as Jesus teaches), and how you choose to cultivate that seed is a matter of free will. Cheers, 🙂

People tell me I’m right more often than you’d think
though some have been polite enough to point out where I’ve missed the mark...

Honestly, those little quirks in how people express themselves aren't really surprising,
even when they're telling you that you're completely wrong
because, well,
who else is going to talk to you if not people who already agree with you?

It’s been said before—that whole "too many cooks in the kitchen" thing
and
how everyone judges themselves and their surroundings by their own skewed standards
making it pretty much impossible to grasp everything at once, all things considered.
Or,
if you actually try to wrap your head around it, you won't know what to do with the information—you have to filter it.
And
once you start filtering, you end up with almost nothing left, maybe a tiny fraction.
You take the small bit that matters and toss the rest. That's it.
(Some people might find this overly complicated—they probably don't get it.)

Ultimately, a true advantage isn't what people claim it is, but what God defines as such.
But since it's understood that most people don't particularly care about God's opinion,
we're left talking about people—and clearly, not in a way that makes sense.
- It essentially implies that humans are smarter than God himself.
Meaning, if God says don't do something or don't believe something,
all these self-appointed interpreters will step in to explain why you should do it and believe it anyway.
It’s a reversed process, I guess.
Which is why modern society seems lost on the difference between virtues and flaws.

I suppose we could debate this forever, but it wouldn't lead anywhere much,
other than everyone just stubbornly sticking to their own views.

I imagine someone might tell me I'm "partially" right again. Heh.

Maria Robinson2 said:People tell me I’m right more often than you’d think
though some have been polite enough to point out where I’ve missed the mark...

Honestly, those little quirks in how people express themselves aren't really surprising,
even when they're telling you that you're completely wrong
because, well,
who else is going to talk to you if not people who already agree with you?

It’s been said before—that whole "too many cooks in the kitchen" thing
and
how everyone judges themselves and their surroundings by their own skewed standards
making it pretty much impossible to grasp everything at once, all things considered.
Or,
if you actually try to wrap your head around it, you won't know what to do with the information—you have to filter it.
And
once you start filtering, you end up with almost nothing left, maybe a tiny fraction.
You take the small bit that matters and toss the rest. That's it.
(Some people might find this overly complicated—they probably don't get it.)

Ultimately, a true advantage isn't what people claim it is, but what God defines as such.
But since it's understood that most people don't particularly care about God's opinion,
we're left talking about people—and clearly, not in a way that makes sense.
- It essentially implies that humans are smarter than God himself.
Meaning, if God says don't do something or don't believe something,
all these self-appointed interpreters will step in to explain why you should do it and believe it anyway.
It’s a reversed process, I guess.
Which is why modern society seems lost on the difference between virtues and flaws.

I suppose we could debate this forever, but it wouldn't lead anywhere much,
other than everyone just stubbornly sticking to their own views.

I imagine someone might tell me I'm "partially" right again. Heh.

You're completely off base,
because you don't actually know what God's opinion is; you're just guessing based on some random interpretation, and you don't even stop to ask yourself, "Hey, what if everything written there is just a lie?"

Lawrence Torres56 said:You're completely off base,
because you don't actually know what God's opinion is; you're just guessing based on some random interpretation, and you don't even stop to ask yourself, "Hey, what if everything written there is just a lie?"

Look, you figure out what’s real and what’s BS when life actually hits the fan and you're tempted to screw someone over just to get ahead.
That's when your conscience kicks in...
That nagging feeling deep down? That's the truth.
The stuff where you try to make excuses or rationalize being a jerk to yourself? That's the lie.

Anyway,
everyone knows exactly when that moment hits. You know "what time it is." You know what's really going on in your gut and what your actual motives are.
Whether you're being shady or not... doesn't matter how much of a saint you pretend to be for the crowd or how much everyone else buys into the act.

Because once it passes and you look back, you realize that all the things that were eating you alive suddenly show up again, labeled as "God's laws" or whatever religious doctrine they're pushing.

Don't steal.
Don't screw people over.
Don't kill.
Don't cheat or exploit others.
Don't lie.
Don't turn a blind eye when someone's getting bullied.
Don't lose your temper.
Don't overindulge.
I could go on forever...

frozengull2 said:Look, you figure out what’s real and what’s BS when life actually hits the fan and you're tempted to screw someone over just to get ahead.
That's when your conscience kicks in...
That nagging feeling deep down? That's the truth.
The stuff where you try to make excuses or rationalize being a jerk to yourself? That's the lie.

Anyway,
everyone knows exactly when that moment hits. You know "what time it is." You know what's really going on in your gut and what your actual motives are.
Whether you're being shady or not... doesn't matter how much of a saint you pretend to be for the crowd or how much everyone else buys into the act.

Because once it passes and you look back, you realize that all the things that were eating you alive suddenly show up again, labeled as "God's laws" or whatever religious doctrine they're pushing.

Don't steal.
Don't screw people over.
Don't kill.
Don't cheat or exploit others.
Don't lie.
Don't turn a blind eye when someone's getting bullied.
Don't lose your temper.
Don't overindulge.
I could go on forever...

To actually pull that off, you need some serious self-awareness,
but then again, does everyone actually have it? 🤷

And let's be real, life isn't just black and white; there are situations where these kinds of choices are the only right move left, so do we even have the right to judge the people making them?

Are we really gonna judge the guy who stole just so his kid wouldn't go hungry?
Are we gonna judge the man who killed an attacker to protect his wife?
Are we gonna judge someone who's been starving for ages and finally finds a chance to eat?
Or the guy who finally snaps because someone took advantage of his kindness for the thousandth time?...etcetera, etcetera...

tanita,

Look, it’s probably a bit much for you to judge whether someone's perspective is actually flawed here.
After all—and I might be wrong about this—you haven't exactly given off the impression that you're intimately acquainted with the views of God.

Actually, those aren't really strengths anymore—they've become liabilities.

When someone insists on writing "god" with a lowercase 'g', it's just one more piece of evidence in a larger pattern.
Now,
one could argue that you're actually referring to the "god of this world"—Satan, I suppose—
since in that specific case, the lowercase usage would technically be correct.
But
that would change the entire context of this conversation, as we clearly wouldn't be talking about the same thing.

There’s still a lingering question mark surrounding your inquiry into what a "spiritual advantage" even is.
Judging by the comments, it seems spirituality is being confused with mere physical examples.

Maria Robinson2 said:tanita,

Look, it’s probably a bit much for you to judge whether someone's perspective is actually flawed here.
After all—and I might be wrong about this—you haven't exactly given off the impression that you're intimately acquainted with the views of God.

Actually, those aren't really strengths anymore—they've become liabilities.

When someone insists on writing "god" with a lowercase 'g', it's just one more piece of evidence in a larger pattern.
Now,
one could argue that you're actually referring to the "god of this world"—Satan, I suppose—
since in that specific case, the lowercase usage would technically be correct.
But
that would change the entire context of this conversation, as we clearly wouldn't be talking about the same thing.

There’s still a lingering question mark surrounding your inquiry into what a "spiritual advantage" even is.
Judging by the comments, it seems spirituality is being confused with mere physical examples.

Personally, I’m not here to play judge and jury; I’m not God, nor do I walk around thinking I am.
So, if anything, I'd say that's actually a virtue, wouldn't you agree?😉
If someone writes "god" in lowercase, just like they write everything else on this forum, it’s usually just a sign they aren't bothering to hit the shift key.🙂
Are we talking about Satan, the god of this world? For someone who claims to be a believer,😲,

well, how are you supposed to explain what a spiritual advantage even is to people who love to act like they're God and think they have the right to pass judgment on everyone else?☕

Lawrence Torres56 said:To actually pull that off, you need some serious self-awareness,
but then again, does everyone actually have it? 🤷

And let's be real, life isn't just black and white; there are situations where these kinds of choices are the only right move left, so do we even have the right to judge the people making them?

Are we really gonna judge the guy who stole just so his kid wouldn't go hungry?
Are we gonna judge the man who killed an attacker to protect his wife?
Are we gonna judge someone who's been starving for ages and finally finds a chance to eat?
Or the guy who finally snaps because someone took advantage of his kindness for the thousandth time?...etcetera, etcetera...

Conscience isn't some matter of opinion.
It's as real as a brick wall.
Everyone knows what's actually in their heart when they do something.

If someone didn't have the guts to stop a predator or an abuser, they succumbed to cowardice or weakness.
On the outside, maybe they looked chill, or centered, or like they were just "minding their own business," but inside? They folded. They were cowards, plain and simple. That's the real reason they didn't act. Cowardice in that moment is a sin. It's the sin of doing nothing.
Of course, once we cave, we start making up these lame excuses to feel better; "it wasn't my business," or "I'm just choosing peace over conflict," or "that guy deserved it, it's just karma," or "I'm staying in my zen zone and nothing can shake me"—all that absolute garbage.
The truth is that tiny little voice you try to drown out, whispering, "you coward!"
And inevitably, that one nasty feeling follows you—like all your strength just drained out of you...
Like that person who was hurting someone while you just stood there watched... they basically sucked the life force right out of you.
We can laugh it off or pretend everything is fine after we run away, but that empty feeling? It's hard to make it vanish.
Conscience isn't just some "voice" or a nagging thought that comes and goes...
It's way deeper than that. It's followed by this sensation that—because of what we did or didn't do—someone literally ripped a piece of our soul away.
And that's no joke.
That "ripping" actually happens... it compromises our whole sense of being whole.
It's not just a figure of speech when people say "it took the soul out of you."
If stuff like that keeps happening, it can absolutely destroy a person... break them down to nothing.
Honestly, it's better to go out fighting if you have to than to live with that hollowed-out feeling.

BTW;
Someone who has nothing to eat and tries to survive (regardless of how we look at it) isn't sinning. They aren't gluttons. They're just surviving... doing whatever they can.
The law might come after them if they slip up, but deep down, they won't feel guilty.
Their conscience won't haunt them.
When I talk about gluttony, I don't just mean food; I mean any kind of excess or addiction.
Like someone so addicted to the internet that they neglect their family just for that dopamine hit—they're in the wrong.
An addict who ruins everything because they're enslaved to their fix? Yeah, definitely.
Every time they reach for that "hit" (whatever form it takes), one voice whispers, "you're doing something bad." And then another voice tries to justify it: "just this once... then I'll stop."

Etc...

We all know when it's "crunch time"... regardless of what anyone else says or the excuses we make to ourselves.

Punching someone in the face could be a heavy sin (violence) in one case, but in another, it's the exact opposite (pure courage)... and vice versa. Not hitting someone could be a sign of true strength (especially if you hold the power) or it could be pure cowardice. It all depends on the situation.

tanita,

Judging someone and passing judgment aren't even close to being the same thing—let alone identical.

If we're being precise, "judging" and "passing judgment" might be closer in spirit.

So, really, it all comes down to two tiny vowels making an entirely different distinction between definitions.

One way to look at the benefit of this is:
A spiritual person understands they have both the capacity and the permission—to judge,
and honestly, that’s somewhat expected of them.
Because, well,
what kind of spiritual person would they be if they didn't realize that judgment is tied to intellect and knowledge—not just regarding spiritual matters, but about life in general?

How can you be so sure you aren't just using that as an excuse to pass judgment on everyone else? Because let's be honest, the line between being principled and being judgmental is incredibly thin, isn't it?

Yes, as I’ve mentioned several times before, those "boundaries" aren't going to be particularly obvious to most people,
which—if I recall correctly—leads back to my point about how prone people are to prejudice.
For instance, the idea that someone who knows more is just being envious of someone who knows less? That’s an immediate setup for bias.

The issue is that the person with less knowledge often assumes the more knowledgeable one is just trying to lecture them,
and that's where the typical ego kicks in for the less informed... they adopt this attitude of,
"don't you dare tell me what to do."

But look, if things actually worked that way, teachers wouldn't even exist;
we’d either all be students or we'd all be teaching each other.

I suppose the mere thought of that spectrum is uncomfortable for some,
it reminds them of murky waters where you can't tell who's drinking or who's footing the bill.

It’s funny—I've noticed that certain people who claim to be spiritual can't actually distinguish a spiritual person from a non-spiritual one,
let alone tell the difference between offering judgment and simply being judgmental.
It’s honestly a bit depressing; you have to wonder what's going through their heads—if they're even thinking at all.

Anyway, I’m sticking to what I said earlier; I don't really second-guess my own take on these things.

Maria Robinson2 said:tanita,

Judging someone and passing judgment aren't even close to being the same thing—let alone identical.

If we're being precise, "judging" and "passing judgment" might be closer in spirit.

So, really, it all comes down to two tiny vowels making an entirely different distinction between definitions.

One way to look at the benefit of this is:
A spiritual person understands they have both the capacity and the permission—to judge,
and honestly, that’s somewhat expected of them.
Because, well,
what kind of spiritual person would they be if they didn't realize that judgment is tied to intellect and knowledge—not just regarding spiritual matters, but about life in general?

Maybe it doesn't click for you, but it definitely does for me, and it certainly holds up in the definitions... if you need me to write them all out for you, just say the word.😉

For a truly spiritual person—or just a decent human being without a bunch of prejudices and malice—judgment isn't some foolish act, because they aren't looking at someone through their own narrow "standards"; instead, they see a person for who they actually are and accept them, flaws and all.
Our logic is deeply tied to our knowledge, and yeah, our knowledge is sometimes limited by our own inability to think clearly... but honestly, that has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality.

frozengull2 said:Conscience isn't some matter of opinion.
It's as real as a brick wall.
Everyone knows what's actually in their heart when they do something.

If someone didn't have the guts to stop a predator or an abuser, they succumbed to cowardice or weakness.
On the outside, maybe they looked chill, or centered, or like they were just "minding their own business," but inside? They folded. They were cowards, plain and simple. That's the real reason they didn't act. Cowardice in that moment is a sin. It's the sin of doing nothing.
Of course, once we cave, we start making up these lame excuses to feel better; "it wasn't my business," or "I'm just choosing peace over conflict," or "that guy deserved it, it's just karma," or "I'm staying in my zen zone and nothing can shake me"—all that absolute garbage.
The truth is that tiny little voice you try to drown out, whispering, "you coward!"
And inevitably, that one nasty feeling follows you—like all your strength just drained out of you...
Like that person who was hurting someone while you just stood there watched... they basically sucked the life force right out of you.
We can laugh it off or pretend everything is fine after we run away, but that empty feeling? It's hard to make it vanish.
Conscience isn't just some "voice" or a nagging thought that comes and goes...
It's way deeper than that. It's followed by this sensation that—because of what we did or didn't do—someone literally ripped a piece of our soul away.
And that's no joke.
That "ripping" actually happens... it compromises our whole sense of being whole.
It's not just a figure of speech when people say "it took the soul out of you."
If stuff like that keeps happening, it can absolutely destroy a person... break them down to nothing.
Honestly, it's better to go out fighting if you have to than to live with that hollowed-out feeling.

BTW;
Someone who has nothing to eat and tries to survive (regardless of how we look at it) isn't sinning. They aren't gluttons. They're just surviving... doing whatever they can.
The law might come after them if they slip up, but deep down, they won't feel guilty.
Their conscience won't haunt them.
When I talk about gluttony, I don't just mean food; I mean any kind of excess or addiction.
Like someone so addicted to the internet that they neglect their family just for that dopamine hit—they're in the wrong.
An addict who ruins everything because they're enslaved to their fix? Yeah, definitely.
Every time they reach for that "hit" (whatever form it takes), one voice whispers, "you're doing something bad." And then another voice tries to justify it: "just this once... then I'll stop."

Etc...

We all know when it's "crunch time"... regardless of what anyone else says or the excuses we make to ourselves.

Punching someone in the face could be a heavy sin (violence) in one case, but in another, it's the exact opposite (pure courage)... and vice versa. Not hitting someone could be a sign of true strength (especially if you hold the power) or it could be pure cowardice. It all depends on the situation.

Sure, but the real question is, do we actually keep that in mind, or do we just instinctively grab the hammer?😉 Is this stuff just sitting deep in our subconscious, waiting for the moment "we" might actually need it?

Anyway, regarding this whole 5 to 12 thing... I don't know, I just don't get that vibe. I've never actually heard of anyone expressing genuine remorse for truly massive transgressions, especially those with a mountain of darkness on their souls. I've yet to hear or read about, say, some cold-blooded killer feeling bad about what they did. :confused:

Lawrence Torres56,

I don't think there is anything you could write that would actually catch my interest.
(We have known this since day one—two years ago, to be exact—so we aren't exactly newcomers here.)

Honestly, I’ve never had much patience for people who make a big production out of
'accepting me with all my flaws'—sorry, but it's just tedious.
People like that—if they ever reach any kind of success—it won't be because of that mindset. That's just my take.

So, what is the point of even having this conversation? Oh, right...
It's not really meant for us—it seems more intended for someone else...

Best.

Maria Robinson2 said:Yes, as I’ve mentioned several times before, those "boundaries" aren't going to be particularly obvious to most people,
which—if I recall correctly—leads back to my point about how prone people are to prejudice.
For instance, the idea that someone who knows more is just being envious of someone who knows less? That’s an immediate setup for bias.

The issue is that the person with less knowledge often assumes the more knowledgeable one is just trying to lecture them,
and that's where the typical ego kicks in for the less informed... they adopt this attitude of,
"don't you dare tell me what to do."

But look, if things actually worked that way, teachers wouldn't even exist;
we’d either all be students or we'd all be teaching each other.

I suppose the mere thought of that spectrum is uncomfortable for some,
it reminds them of murky waters where you can't tell who's drinking or who's footing the bill.

It’s funny—I've noticed that certain people who claim to be spiritual can't actually distinguish a spiritual person from a non-spiritual one,
let alone tell the difference between offering judgment and simply being judgmental.
It’s honestly a bit depressing; you have to wonder what's going through their heads—if they're even thinking at all.

Anyway, I’m sticking to what I said earlier; I don't really second-guess my own take on these things.

😁 But how could you possibly recognize any of that if you aren't judging anyone?

If you truly weren't judging, you'd be indifferent to everything... you'd just accept everything as truth... but in every single one of your comments, you're clearly trying to prove that you're the one who's right...

Don't you see you're just setting your own trap?

For instance, I can clearly see that you all lack an understanding of the distinctions here.

Now that I’ve identified that—I suppose I'm being judged by you all for it.
Quite funny, really.

Just so you know, taking everything at face value wouldn't even hold up in a small-claims court.
So, by that logic, even a local municipal court has more sense than this—
if you weren't already aware that matters of spirit would be handled in federal court.

Maria Robinson2 said:For instance, I can clearly see that you all lack an understanding of the distinctions here.

Now that I’ve identified that—I suppose I'm being judged by you all for it.
Quite funny, really.

Just so you know, taking everything at face value wouldn't even hold up in a small-claims court.
So, by that logic, even a local municipal court has more sense than this—
if you weren't already aware that matters of spirit would be handled in federal court.

Of course that kind of logic doesn't fly with people who feel the need to act superior and dominate every conversation.
But the reason I find it funny is because I know I've made my judgment, so I might as well own it... through irony and a bit of humor, which is always the best way to reveal someone's true colors in a subtle way.