Pros and cons of spiritual practices

Maria Robinson2 said:Lawrence Torres56,

I don't think there is anything you could write that would actually catch my interest.
(We have known this since day one—two years ago, to be exact—so we aren't exactly newcomers here.)

Honestly, I’ve never had much patience for people who make a big production out of
'accepting me with all my flaws'—sorry, but it's just tedious.
People like that—if they ever reach any kind of success—it won't be because of that mindset. That's just my take.

So, what is the point of even having this conversation? Oh, right...
It's not really meant for us—it seems more intended for someone else...

Best.

I’m just gonna be straight with you, okay? These kinds of posts actually kind of tickle my fancy—not because it’s specifically about you (I don't keep tabs on who writes what), but honestly, it’s just so "confusing" to see how people act and think, constantly invoking God in almost every sentence... while simultaneously totally ignoring everything that God is actually telling them...
shouldn't someone who claims to be a devout believer care way more about what's written in the Bible than someone who doesn't even claim that identity?
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the sawdust is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Matthew 7:1... The Golden Rule.
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

And, if we're looking at it that way, who do you think actually comes out ahead: the person asking to be accepted exactly as they are, or the one lying to themselves and everyone else just to fit in?🤷

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but life has sort of taught me that the only way to actually find some inner peace is to just accept people for who they truly are; trying to change them? Yeah, that’s never going to end well...

Lawrence Torres56 said:I’m just gonna be straight with you, okay? These kinds of posts actually kind of tickle my fancy—not because it’s specifically about you (I don't keep tabs on who writes what), but honestly, it’s just so "confusing" to see how people act and think, constantly invoking God in almost every sentence... while simultaneously totally ignoring everything that God is actually telling them...
shouldn't someone who claims to be a devout believer care way more about what's written in the Bible than someone who doesn't even claim that identity?
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the sawdust is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Matthew 7:1... The Golden Rule.
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

And, if we're looking at it that way, who do you think actually comes out ahead: the person asking to be accepted exactly as they are, or the one lying to themselves and everyone else just to fit in?🤷

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but life has sort of taught me that the only way to actually find some inner peace is to just accept people for who they truly are; trying to change them? Yeah, that’s never going to end well...

Hold on, why weren't you being honest all along?

Which god is telling whom what? It’s all pretty incomprehensible, aside from the fact that everyone knows there are plenty of "gods" out there, and most are just frauds.

And talking about having a "greater advantage"... sounds like an Olympic event.
But look, we aren't running the 100-meter dash or clearing high jump bars here to measure who has the bigger lead.

Ultimately, though, people generally change on their own—though, I guess, with a little outside help.
For instance, once a child grows up, they stop being a child and start conforming to the adult world around them.
Now, that all depends on the environment, because sometimes it just amplifies flaws.
You know, it’s where that saying comes from—how some people's faults end up overshadowing their virtues.

It makes you wonder: why is it that we only ever talk about virtues?
In other words, shouldn't those things actually be demonstrated?
It reminds me of a recent comment from a journalist regarding a certain American politician:
'He's full of virtues, fighting against terrorism, but he certainly isn't interested in fighting child trafficking.'

So, I suppose the whole thing is more than debatable, isn't it?

Lawrence Torres56 said:Maybe it doesn't click for you, but it definitely does for me, and it certainly holds up in the definitions... if you need me to write them all out for you, just say the word.😉

For a truly spiritual person—or just a decent human being without a bunch of prejudices and malice—judgment isn't some foolish act, because they aren't looking at someone through their own narrow "standards"; instead, they see a person for who they actually are and accept them, flaws and all.
Our logic is deeply tied to our knowledge, and yeah, our knowledge is sometimes limited by our own inability to think clearly... but honestly, that has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality.

Sure, but the real question is, do we actually keep that in mind, or do we just instinctively grab the hammer?😉 Is this stuff just sitting deep in our subconscious, waiting for the moment "we" might actually need it?

Anyway, regarding this whole 5 to 12 thing... I don't know, I just don't get that vibe. I've never actually heard of anyone expressing genuine remorse for truly massive transgressions, especially those with a mountain of darkness on their souls. I've yet to hear or read about, say, some cold-blooded killer feeling bad about what they did. 😕

When people talk about "midnight," they mean that moment when you're actually forced to act.
There's a huge difference between daydreaming about what you'd do if you hit the jackpot or found a bag of cash on a sidewalk in Chicago, and actually standing there staring at it.
Would our inner greed take over? Would our ego flare up? Would we suddenly feel way more important than we actually are? How much would our lack of self-control just spill out?

Nothing is worse than when your conscience just goes quiet... like it’s been euthanized or silenced off.
It happens all the time.
A person without a conscience is just lost.
Spiritually dead.
All they have left is some ideology or "logic" they use to justify killing off their own inner voice.
That sense of power they pull from those ideological "strongholds"—especially if they're out there hurting people—is a total illusion. It's just ideological euphoria fueled by a fake sense of being on a mission or having power.
It's like an "intravenous silence" designed to cloud the spirit... and it totally links back to the vibe of the people around you. If you're hanging out with killers, it's a hell of a lot easier to become one.
It doesn't matter if they claim they're doing it for God or shouting to the heavens that they're acting in His name.
The horror and terror that hit you when you finally wake up from that haze—whether it's before or after the fact—is probably the heaviest thing a soul can ever endure.
But the absolute worst ones are the people who crossed that line and started actually enjoying their sins... people who find genuine pleasure in them.

Only God can help folks like that.

Our time here might be fleeting, and from the perspective of eternity, everything might seem trivial or like a dream... but at the moment of death, that little slice of "fleeting time"—where the spirit had its chance to break free from being stuck in the temporary—that's when the bill comes due.
It's like experiencing the Holy Spirit.
Once that light hits you from the inside, you suddenly realize how small-minded and petty your motives were, and how far you drifted from the Spirit and the sins tied to it... it just happens spontaneously.
The more intense that realization is, the deeper the consequences go.
The absolute worst scenario is when there's nothing but a bottomless pit or a black hole between us and God's Light because we chose to stare right into it ourselves.

Maria Robinson2 said:Hold on, why weren't you being honest all along?

Which god is telling whom what? It’s all pretty incomprehensible, aside from the fact that everyone knows there are plenty of "gods" out there, and most are just frauds.

And talking about having a "greater advantage"... sounds like an Olympic event.
But look, we aren't running the 100-meter dash or clearing high jump bars here to measure who has the bigger lead.

Ultimately, though, people generally change on their own—though, I guess, with a little outside help.
For instance, once a child grows up, they stop being a child and start conforming to the adult world around them.
Now, that all depends on the environment, because sometimes it just amplifies flaws.
You know, it’s where that saying comes from—how some people's faults end up overshadowing their virtues.

It makes you wonder: why is it that we only ever talk about virtues?
In other words, shouldn't those things actually be demonstrated?
It reminds me of a recent comment from a journalist regarding a certain American politician:
'He's full of virtues, fighting against terrorism, but he certainly isn't interested in fighting child trafficking.'

So, I suppose the whole thing is more than debatable, isn't it?

Maybe try asking yourself that instead of throwing it at me, yeah?😉

Which god is talking to whom and what? It’s all just a massive blur, honestly, unless you count the fact that everyone knows there are enough "gods" in these stories to fill a stadium—they're all just a bunch of frauds if you ask me.

There's only one God, even if there are a million different ways to believe...😉

It makes you wonder: why is everyone always just *talking* about virtues?
I mean, shouldn't they actually be living them out in the real world?
It reminds me of some pundit recently talking about a certain high-profile US politician:
'He claims to be full of integrity, fighting against terrorism and all that, but when it comes to stopping child trafficking, he doesn't seem to care one bit.'

Who's actually bragging? I don't get the vibe that anyone here is out here patting themselves on the back for their "virtues." People are just asking questions and sharing their thoughts on the subject, which isn't a bad thing in my book... especially since nothing in life is ever purely black and white, right?

frozengull2 said:When people talk about "midnight," they mean that moment when you're actually forced to act.
There's a huge difference between daydreaming about what you'd do if you hit the jackpot or found a bag of cash on a sidewalk in Chicago, and actually standing there staring at it.
Would our inner greed take over? Would our ego flare up? Would we suddenly feel way more important than we actually are? How much would our lack of self-control just spill out?

Nothing is worse than when your conscience just goes quiet... like it’s been euthanized or silenced off.
It happens all the time.
A person without a conscience is just lost.
Spiritually dead.
All they have left is some ideology or "logic" they use to justify killing off their own inner voice.
That sense of power they pull from those ideological "strongholds"—especially if they're out there hurting people—is a total illusion. It's just ideological euphoria fueled by a fake sense of being on a mission or having power.
It's like an "intravenous silence" designed to cloud the spirit... and it totally links back to the vibe of the people around you. If you're hanging out with killers, it's a hell of a lot easier to become one.
It doesn't matter if they claim they're doing it for God or shouting to the heavens that they're acting in His name.
The horror and terror that hit you when you finally wake up from that haze—whether it's before or after the fact—is probably the heaviest thing a soul can ever endure.
But the absolute worst ones are the people who crossed that line and started actually enjoying their sins... people who find genuine pleasure in them.

Only God can help folks like that.

Our time here might be fleeting, and from the perspective of eternity, everything might seem trivial or like a dream... but at the moment of death, that little slice of "fleeting time"—where the spirit had its chance to break free from being stuck in the temporary—that's when the bill comes due.
It's like experiencing the Holy Spirit.
Once that light hits you from the inside, you suddenly realize how small-minded and petty your motives were, and how far you drifted from the Spirit and the sins tied to it... it just happens spontaneously.
The more intense that realization is, the deeper the consequences go.
The absolute worst scenario is when there's nothing but a bottomless pit or a black hole between us and God's Light because we chose to stare right into it ourselves.

At the end of the day, a person acts based on the values they actually hold dear...
You can't shake them; you can only sit back and watch as they drop the act and show you who they truly are underneath the mask.😉

Lawrence Torres56,

Why would I even bother asking myself that instead of you?

Do you actually know who first came up with that ridiculous filler phrase, "To be honest..."?
Somewhere long ago—it varies depending on who you ask, since some people just mimic others for a laugh—
if you actually look closer at it, you realize that everything said prior to that moment—
was essentially a lie. So, one day he finally decided to speak truthfully, and that’s how the whole "to be honest with you..." thing started.

Well, if you weren't aware of that little bit of trivia, now you are.

I suppose if you didn't know, there's an advantage in the idea that it's easy for a spiritual person to recognize what is truly real.

There’s no such thing as a "spiritual flaw." What we call flaws are really just human shortcomings—though, honestly, who gets to decide what a flaw even is? Sometimes what one person labels as a "vice" is actually just their own inability to accept someone else's behavior. It’s less about the person being broken and more about a lack of tolerance from those watching.

If there aren't any flaws—then you're looking at the distinction between spirituality and true faith.

Because, well, they aren't exactly the same thing.

It’s a bit of an uncomfortable truth, I suppose.

Maria Robinson2 said:If there aren't any flaws—then you're looking at the distinction between spirituality and true faith.

Because, well, they aren't exactly the same thing.

It’s a bit of an uncomfortable truth, I suppose.

Look, if something doesn't exist, then it simply doesn't exist... and once you find yourself trying to justify your actions through some other lens, you're basically just trying to position yourself above something that isn't even there to begin with—something that was already settled.

That is exactly how the ego starts to swell, looking for some secondary reason or a new sense of purpose for itself... all because it refuses to own its own shortcomings and keeps hunting for excuses instead.

It’s a bit of both, I suppose—everyone eventually figures it out...
much like how people realized there's no harm in touching someone's mother-in-law...
just bump into someone in passing and observe their ego.

One has to test things—there isn't really any other way—even if people say don't do it; though, I guess those warnings only come from the egoists, since they're the ones who can't handle being nudged.

And all this happens simply because someone suggested that Christians ought to be humble toward everyone,
yet the person who said that feels entitled to mock Christians to their faces—which, frankly, wasn't funny at all.
So, the mockers get a little nudge in passing—just a reminder, nothing more.
As for them—if those mockers want to turn it into some massive global drama—well, by all means, let them; nobody is stopping them.

Maria Robinson2 said:It’s a bit of both, I suppose—everyone eventually figures it out...
much like how people realized there's no harm in touching someone's mother-in-law...
just bump into someone in passing and observe their ego.

One has to test things—there isn't really any other way—even if people say don't do it; though, I guess those warnings only come from the egoists, since they're the ones who can't handle being nudged.

And all this happens simply because someone suggested that Christians ought to be humble toward everyone,
yet the person who said that feels entitled to mock Christians to their faces—which, frankly, wasn't funny at all.
So, the mockers get a little nudge in passing—just a reminder, nothing more.
As for them—if those mockers want to turn it into some massive global drama—well, by all means, let them; nobody is stopping them.

Yeah, but maybe they've all completely misread the situation, and that's why they ended up this way.

Maria Robinson2 said:If there aren't any flaws—then you're looking at the distinction between spirituality and true faith.

Because, well, they aren't exactly the same thing.

It’s a bit of an uncomfortable truth, I suppose.

God lives within us, and the spiritual search does too. Ultimately, people just define these terms based on their own personal perspectives and life experiences.

Michael Gonzalez77 said:God lives within us, and the spiritual search does too. Ultimately, people just define these terms based on their own personal perspectives and life experiences.

I suppose you have a point there—if one actually bothers to distinguish things—in that most people aren't searching for God at all, but rather for themselves,
and then they go ahead and label it a "spiritual quest."

It reminds me of that old saying—having an advantage in something isn't quite the same as possessing actual virtue.
Unless, of course, someone happens to mistake their own ego for being some sort of divine instrument.

Maria Robinson2 said:I suppose you have a point there—if one actually bothers to distinguish things—in that most people aren't searching for God at all, but rather for themselves,
and then they go ahead and label it a "spiritual quest."

It reminds me of that old saying—having an advantage in something isn't quite the same as possessing actual virtue.
Unless, of course, someone happens to mistake their own ego for being some sort of divine instrument.

But did you start your own search with the divine in mind? You set out to find the ultimate truth, yet I guess you don't truly know who it is within you that is doing the seeking.

You seem to want to encounter the master of creation—whose very existence is debatable—rather than focusing on yourself, which is the only thing you're certain you actually ARE.

Chris Williams said:But did you start your own search with the divine in mind? You set out to find the ultimate truth, yet I guess you don't truly know who it is within you that is doing the seeking.

You seem to want to encounter the master of creation—whose very existence is debatable—rather than focusing on yourself, which is the only thing you're certain you actually ARE.

I guess I wonder why people are so preoccupied with me and my opinions—it seems like a bit of a waste of time, honestly.

I can offer you my opinion, though—I suppose—you won't be getting any actual insight from me.
Yeah.
Forgive me, but—if I may—he writes that true insight comes exclusively from God the Creator.

Well, now that we finally have some clarity on what's actually going on here, I suppose we should move forward with a quick, somewhat random question...
Basically—
It seems people are constantly accusing others of trying to "convert" them—I guess that’s just how things go sometimes.
I said,
I mean... what kind of linguistic transformations are we even talking about here—and are forced shifts like that actually permitted?

Look, since it isn't permitted—well, I guess the entire world just does it by force throughout history.

Then that’s fine—minus one point for spirituality, I guess.

@ Maria Robinson2

You’re on a forum, not sitting alone on a park bench talking to pigeons. If you're going to post opinions or views—or if you're just posting nonsense because you have nothing better to do—then I guess you should expect people to comment.

Nobody is trying to convert you, nor is anyone expecting you to enlighten them. This is a forum, which is meant to be a space for exchanging ideas. Maybe try dialing back the sense of... 😵

Maria Robinson2 said:I suppose you have a point there—if one actually bothers to distinguish things—in that most people aren't searching for God at all, but rather for themselves,
and then they go ahead and label it a "spiritual quest."

It reminds me of that old saying—having an advantage in something isn't quite the same as possessing actual virtue.
Unless, of course, someone happens to mistake their own ego for being some sort of divine instrument.

Using the word "God" or looking for "Him" "within oneself" is essentially a search for the Self (the Source of the "self," or the Self as the Origin, because there has to be an Origin within a person that serves as the source of their entire experience). There’s really no difference except in how you frame the determinism—assuming human nature is universal. Since the Source of everything is God or Nadduša, or whatever term you use for the First Cause, the search remains the same regardless of the terminology used.

Whether someone experiences delusions about God or self-absorption doesn't depend on whether they read the Bible or not. It depends on whether they are taking actual "steps"—whether that pursuit is truly productive or aligned with the natural progression of growth, which inherently involves developing creativity (I mean creativity in the broadest sense of how one relates to existence, not just artistic creation). If that's the case, it doesn't matter if someone follows Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, or some ancient indigenous faith centered on the Moon and the Sun, or if they don't belong to any group at all. What matters for spiritual growth isn't the label, but whether the person is making a genuine, creative effort to develop their inner spirituality.

More often than not, religion—in the sense of people identifying strictly with various norms dictated by rigid dogma without any critical thinking, sometimes even defending dogmas or truths in Holy Scriptures blindly—acts as nothing more than another set of shackles or a cage for a true seeker. Such artificial constructs are just imposed imaginations or fantasies that consciousness eventually identifies with.

Chris Williams said:@ Maria Robinson2

You’re on a forum, not sitting alone on a park bench talking to pigeons. If you're going to post opinions or views—or if you're just posting nonsense because you have nothing better to do—then I guess you should expect people to comment.

Nobody is trying to convert you, nor is anyone expecting you to enlighten them. This is a forum, which is meant to be a space for exchanging ideas. Maybe try dialing back the sense of... 😵

It almost sounded like the birds in the trees have their own theological takes.

That would certainly be interesting, I suppose.

Michael Gonzalez77,

I suppose you're being more specific than others in this instance,
and
you're right—they basically just mirror religious institutional doctrines.

It’s actually quite interesting, isn't it?
The fact that no one is born fully converted.
Just imagine,
kids are being indoctrinated before they even finish elementary school.
One really needs to distinguish between that initial "conversion" and the various types of transformations that happen throughout a lifetime.

Since we're discussing the flaws of so-called spirituality, I should probably mention this too—if we're being fair.

Maria Robinson2 said:It almost sounded like the birds in the trees have their own theological takes.

That would certainly be interesting, I suppose.

☕

Here is a little gift from me, Maria Robinson2—you lost souls...

I suppose you might find yourself in a similar situation.

I suppose there is little point in dwelling on fear or shame, really. I won't spend another second waiting for Gala to call, though I have no intention of following her lead either. I am moving toward a place where everything aligns with my own will—if only to keep from losing my mind, to stop the constant overthinking, and to shield myself from seeing or hearing anything that might cause me to burn out in all that blinding glare. I am going where things are finally under my control.

Another personal insult for the collection... how predictable.

What does this tell me?

It suggests that I happen to be right while you are clearly in the wrong—which is why my presence is such an inconvenience to you, I suppose.

There is a saying, if you will:

My strength lies precisely where your weaknesses reside; had you none, I wouldn't have an advantage to speak of.

Quite a lesson, really.