Religion classes in school - Megathread

Maria Gray3 said:I don't really get why you wouldn't ask a six-year-old if they want to attend religious classes. It’s like asking if they want to do ballet or learn Italian; you're probably going to push them into it or tell them no regardless. My own parents—mom was religious, dad was an atheist—asked me about twenty years ago, so it seems strange to me that people today would rather fight it out through the Coast Guard than just see what the kid actually thinks or feels about it.

Please, go back and reread what I wrote.
The child needs to learn something regarding religious education. So, they either attend church regularly with their mother (while the father is clearly very much against it, from what I can tell) or they hear all about it from a friend at school who does attend.
Someone who is strictly against it might have already told the child, or if they haven't, they will eventually explain that it isn't a good environment.

During their divorce, they should have established a formal joint custody plan (or whatever mediation process they used depending on which branch of the Democratic Party they were following), and religion likely would have been part of that discussion, especially since the father is explicitly opposed (unless the caseworker missed it during the initial talks).
It’s much better for them to find a neutral party to help them reach an agreement now, rather than having a bitter argument right when they're dropping the child off for the weekend.
Even if the school only requires consent from one parent (which I'm pretty sure is the case), in this specific situation, regardless of how the child feels, you have one parent who is fundamentally against it. If the child is enrolled against his wishes, it could cause real issues for the kid down the road, no matter how much they might personally want to go.

From the school's perspective, it would be much easier if they required consent from both parents to avoid these headaches, instead of leaving it up to the parents to fight it out at home or at the center before the child hands in their permission slip.

How would this actually work in a situation like third grade, where the kid is staying with their dad for the weekend? Would he be expected to take them to church too? Honestly, if someone tried to dictate my schedule during the weekends I actually get to spend with my child, I’d probably lose it. 😁

Weekends at my dad's place are honestly just the worst when you're dealing with a divorce—and then having to drag yourself to church on top of it? 😲

Larry Walker24 said:Go ahead, ask a six-year-old what religion class even is—not whether they want to go, but what it *is*—and then tell me how that goes.

Why would you even ask them that? 🤔 They can't really explain the curriculum or what they'd be learning there, so why bother asking if they want to attend?

Susan James said:Please, go back and reread what I wrote.
The child needs to learn something regarding religious education. So, they either attend church regularly with their mother (while the father is clearly very much against it, from what I can tell) or they hear all about it from a friend at school who does attend.
Someone who is strictly against it might have already told the child, or if they haven't, they will eventually explain that it isn't a good environment.

During their divorce, they should have established a formal joint custody plan (or whatever mediation process they used depending on which branch of the Democratic Party they were following), and religion likely would have been part of that discussion, especially since the father is explicitly opposed (unless the caseworker missed it during the initial talks).
It’s much better for them to find a neutral party to help them reach an agreement now, rather than having a bitter argument right when they're dropping the child off for the weekend.
Even if the school only requires consent from one parent (which I'm pretty sure is the case), in this specific situation, regardless of how the child feels, you have one parent who is fundamentally against it. If the child is enrolled against his wishes, it could cause real issues for the kid down the road, no matter how much they might personally want to go.

From the school's perspective, it would be much easier if they required consent from both parents to avoid these headaches, instead of leaving it up to the parents to fight it out at home or at the center before the child hands in their permission slip.

I still don't see how any of that relates to my pretty simple question: did the mother, who's all for it, and the father, who's totally against it, ever actually talk to the child about religion or ask for their input?

It seems like a better way to handle things than just waiting to fight and calling social services, since they can always do that anyway. Maybe it's better to start including the child in decisions that affect them instead of just constantly sniping at each other. 🤷

That’s a pretty rare occurrence—even for parents who are happily married, let alone divorced folks. It’s basically unicorn territory.

I don't know, maybe I'm just talking about unicorns here. In my experience, people who are together—or even those who aren't—always have their disagreements and doubts, but that doesn't stop them from reaching an agreement. Maybe I’ve lived my life in some rosy bubble thinking all families were perfectly stable, but I really don't see the point in signing a kid up for religious ed, or any other school or extracurricular activity, through some community center without actually talking to the child first about what they might actually want or be interested in.

Maybe the kid already goes to church with their mom and isn't feeling it, or maybe they go with their mom and actually love it, or maybe they weren't really raised with much emphasis on faith so they'd rather just play soccer with the guys from school during that time. There could be a hundred other reasons. But a six-year-old is articulate enough to have an opinion, and it seems reasonable to consult them before the mom, dad, and some coordinator at the center decide everything without asking, just because the parents want to force their own way. I'm not saying this applies to the woman who asked or her ex-husband, but I think it's perfectly fine to ask her if she and the dad have actually sat down with the kid to see if they're actually on board with this religious class or not.

Maria Gray3 said:I don't know, maybe I'm just talking about unicorns here. In my experience, people who are together—or even those who aren't—always have their disagreements and doubts, but that doesn't stop them from reaching an agreement. Maybe I’ve lived my life in some rosy bubble thinking all families were perfectly stable, but I really don't see the point in signing a kid up for religious ed, or any other school or extracurricular activity, through some community center without actually talking to the child first about what they might actually want or be interested in.

Maybe the kid already goes to church with their mom and isn't feeling it, or maybe they go with their mom and actually love it, or maybe they weren't really raised with much emphasis on faith so they'd rather just play soccer with the guys from school during that time. There could be a hundred other reasons. But a six-year-old is articulate enough to have an opinion, and it seems reasonable to consult them before the mom, dad, and some coordinator at the center decide everything without asking, just because the parents want to force their own way. I'm not saying this applies to the woman who asked or her ex-husband, but I think it's perfectly fine to ask her if she and the dad have actually sat down with the kid to see if they're actually on board with this religious class or not.

In my son's class, nearly everyone—we're talking 28 kids—wanted to drop religion class the second they realized what they were missing. They saw the kids who didn't attend getting to hang out or just head home early. It was an absolute nightmare for us parents, trying to convince them they actually had to show up.

wanderinghawk30 said:In my son's class, nearly everyone—we're talking 28 kids—wanted to drop religion class the second they realized what they were missing. They saw the kids who didn't attend getting to hang out or just head home early. It was an absolute nightmare for us parents, trying to convince them they actually had to show up.

Wait, why would they HAVE to go?

You can talk to kids about this, provided you don't frame religion as something dangerous or, on the flip side, something absolutely mandatory for a decent life.
It’s like how you wouldn't just randomly ask your kid if they want to try some drugs, nor would you bother asking if they feel like taking their antibiotics.
Anything in between those extremes is fair game for a conversation.

@MonotypeCorsiva, we actually did exactly what you’re talking about. We sat him down and asked if he wanted to take religion classes at school. 😁 Since he had absolutely no clue what that even meant, we gave him the full rundown—explained that it’s where you learn about God, the church, and all that stuff. Back then, he was right in that "does God even exist?" phase with a million questions running through his head, so he was pretty hooked.

He’s still taking those classes, too. He’s in fourth grade now, and honestly, every year we ask him if he wants to opt out. He just has this philosophical streak in him, I guess. During almost every single lesson, he fires off a million questions that leave his teacher in a bit of a tight spot. Just a couple of days ago, he told me he might actually switch religions once he’s studied enough about other faiths.

He’s an atheist, for the most part, while I’m a theist, but I don't really feel the need to label myself as a member of the HBC anymore.

Larry Walker24 said:Wait, why would they HAVE to go?

No clue. They should probably ask themselves that.

hiddendriver34 said:@MonotypeCorsiva, we actually did exactly what you’re talking about. We sat him down and asked if he wanted to take religion classes at school. 😁 Since he had absolutely no clue what that even meant, we gave him the full rundown—explained that it’s where you learn about God, the church, and all that stuff. Back then, he was right in that "does God even exist?" phase with a million questions running through his head, so he was pretty hooked.

He’s still taking those classes, too. He’s in fourth grade now, and honestly, every year we ask him if he wants to opt out. He just has this philosophical streak in him, I guess. During almost every single lesson, he fires off a million questions that leave his teacher in a bit of a tight spot. Just a couple of days ago, he told me he might actually switch religions once he’s studied enough about other faiths.

He’s an atheist, for the most part, while I’m a theist, but I don't really feel the need to label myself as a member of the HBC anymore.

That last sentence really sums us up 😂

We told our kid he could go to just one session to check it out and then decide for himself. I checked in with the teacher first, he went to the class, and as soon as the hour was up, he brought the textbooks back.

Problem solved.

rowdypanther12 said:You can talk to kids about this, provided you don't frame religion as something dangerous or, on the flip side, something absolutely mandatory for a decent life.
It’s like how you wouldn't just randomly ask your kid if they want to try some drugs, nor would you bother asking if they feel like taking their antibiotics.
Anything in between those extremes is fair game for a conversation.

Right. You present it to them and see if they actually care. Lay out both sides—the pros and the cons. It’s mostly just a parent gauging how much their kid can actually process, though honestly, it usually comes down to whether the parent is even capable of explaining it clearly. You can stay perfectly neutral.
The only complication is when those religious classes require things the Church demands, but the parents just want the kid to get all their sacraments.
For instance, there’s a girl in my kid's class from Russia. She attends religious ed because her friends go, even though her parents follow a different faith and she has zero connection to the church itself. Still, they let her attend. To me, that's fine. Why force a specific agenda on a kid if they'd be happier with another option? At the end of the day, whatever they learn at home—their own traditions and faith—is what really sticks.

I think you missed my point. I mean, sure, you can talk to a child about things, but it doesn't cross my mind to discuss religious studies with mine because I find those teachings pretty harmful. I just don't want them exposed to that kind of stuff.
It’s like how I wouldn't ask them if they wanted to walk along the edge of a skyscraper with their eyes closed.
In the same way, parents on the complete opposite end of the spectrum have nothing to say to their kids because they don't even bother asking if they need antibiotics when they're sick.

Look, I don't know. Every parent just does what they think is best, so I'm not going to sit here and lecture anyone on what's "right." That feels pointless. Besides, this whole debate over religious education isn't even in the same league as something like whether you want to take antibiotics or walk along the edge of a skyscraper. It’s different. Still, I get that some people see things through a completely different lens.

Okay, let’s simplify this.
Why on earth would I sit my kid down to talk about attending religious education classes if I honestly believe it's incredibly harmful and damaging to a child's mental health?

One could certainly engage in a discussion regarding this matter, though I fail to see the necessity.
I am certainly not interested in doing so; there is quite simply no point in dissecting every conceivable fairy tale when reality offers far more compelling and practical narratives to pursue.

To put it plainly, she was never baptized and never sat through a single religious studies class. She is perfectly aware that some people cling to faith out of sheer tradition or a gut feeling that life is better that way, and she respects those convictions—provided, of course, they don't attempt to force their beliefs upon her.

rowdypanther12 said:Okay, let’s simplify this.
Why on earth would I sit my kid down to talk about attending religious education classes if I honestly believe it's incredibly harmful and damaging to a child's mental health?

Let me repeat myself:

wanderinghawk30 said:Look, I don't know. Every parent just does what they think is best, so I'm not going to sit here and lecture anyone on what's "right." That feels pointless. Besides, this whole debate over religious education isn't even in the same league as something like whether you want to take antibiotics or walk along the edge of a skyscraper. It’s different. Still, I get that some people see things through a completely different lens.

Look. If a parent finds this stuff that terrifying—that brainwashing—then they should probably just take a hard stance on whether the kid goes or stays. That was my position. My position, and mine alone, regarding this specific situation.
If those other parents are equally uncompromising, who knows how that plays out. Nobody wants the drama of involving the local police department or social services. It's much better for the kid if the parents can actually manage to talk to them. I hope they can.

That’s just what I wrote, responding to wanderinghawk30’s advice about handling a child.
It works fine, provided the parents aren't at extreme opposite ends of the spectrum.
She mentioned that if I'm not mistaken, the dad is strictly against it, while she really wants to go through with it.
I mean, if one parent thinks their kid is headed for hell without being baptized or confirmed, and the other thinks religious education will mess with the child's psyche and potentially ruin their mental health, then there's just no middle ground.
I honestly don't get how two people with such polar opposite views ended up together in the first place.

Peter Harris80 said:Do both parents need to sign the consent form? Does any regulation actually state that both parents must agree on an elective? Or is one signature enough if it's based on the child's best interests?

The father claims that for religious education, both parents must agree. Especially if they are divorced.
He is strictly against it, while I would prefer the child to attend. What am I supposed to do in front of the school? I'd rather not involve the local police unless absolutely necessary. And I definitely don't want the school forcing my hand.

Nothing in front of the school. Just settle it beforehand, for God's sake.
He’s flat-out against it, yet you’re saying you’d "love for it to happen." Maybe I'm misreading this—and I could be wrong, mind you—but the way you've phrased it makes me think you just don't want the absence to be highlighted, so you'd rather they just go along with it to avoid the fuss. It’s not even about the religious education for you, it's more about the optics...

Am I right?

Besides, why wouldn't you compromise? I mean, since the kid lives with you, you basically get a vote on almost everything—what they eat, what they wear, bedtimes, who their friends are. Why draw a line here?

And honestly, why not sit down with your ex one more time? Try to talk him into letting them attend just for this one year, and then re-evaluate next year if they actually want to go. To me, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable deal.

As for us—we aren't religious, but we actually enrolled our child in religious ed classes at the local elementary school just so they can hear about it and see what it's all about. You know, so they can learn terms like Jesus, Mary, God, the Holy Spirit, saints, apostles, Advent, Christmas carols, the crucifixion, sin... just so they have a foundation to start asking questions from.