Religion classes in school - Megathread

shadowcrane91 said:That’s why I think the only people pushing to scrap religious ed in schools are minorities who expect the majority to just bend to their will.☕

Look, the way schools handle it right now is a total mess because religious studies is an elective—it's supposed to be a choice! So, logically, those classes should happen after the regular school day is already wrapped up...
I mean, why can't schools just organize it like any other elective? Honestly, I have no clue...

But I'm not saying we should kick it out entirely. I'm saying we need a better structure so you don't have kids wandering aimlessly through the hallways; make it the first period or the last one.

Here’s a practical believer who’s actually against having religion taught in school.

So what now?

Nancy Martin93 said:That's not quite right—don't say that! America isn't a Catholic country; it's a secular one. There is no state religion, and all faiths are considered equal here.
Also, saying a minority should have to adapt to the majority is a pretty dangerous road to go down—because eventually, you might find yourself in the minority position for whatever reason, and then you'll see things differently.
Everyone has the right to their own opinion and their own faith. You have every right to raise your child however you think is best, but an atheist or agnostic has that same right to raise their child without religion—just like a Muslim has the right to raise their child according to their own needs.
The real issue is that since this is part of the public school system, it becomes a problem in a secular nation when one specific faith is being pushed on everyone. No one is questioning your right to enroll your kid in Sunday school—where they can learn from a priest or a nun in the faith you choose—but using taxpayer money for religious classes is the sticking point. That money comes from both believers and non-believers alike, and it feels like non-believers are being pressured into religious classes because there isn't a comparable alternative provided.

Look, it’s not about forcing some one-size-fits-all religion down anyone's throat, because in America, everyone should have the right to follow their own path, right? Plus, if their specific religious groups actually ask for it, every kid should have the exact same opportunity to take religious studies as an elective in school, just like any other subject.😉

Lawrence Torres56 said:Look, it’s not about forcing some one-size-fits-all religion down anyone's throat, because in America, everyone should have the right to follow their own path, right? Plus, if their specific religious groups actually ask for it, every kid should have the exact same opportunity to take religious studies as an elective in school, just like any other subject.😉

True, though—I haven't personally run into a single school yet, whether elementary or high school, that actually offers any kind of alternative to standard religious studies.

shadowcrane91 said:So what, every other religion gets to promote their beliefs wherever they want, but we’re the only ones who should "tuck ours away" in one specific spot???
☕

Look, I don't really know where other religions are proselytizing since I'm not religious myself.☕
As far as I can tell, public schools here pretty much just offer Catholic studies; you don't see the other options being taught in the classroom.☕

I honestly don't get why you believers are so worked up about removing religious education from the school curriculum. Why can't your kids just head over to church for those lessons instead?

nimblelynx7 said:Oh, sure. They’re perfectly entitled to spit on Mexicans, non-Americans, atheists, or anyone else who skips religion class. I mean, they're all headed to hell anyway, right?

It's structured that way because it has to be. Per the treaty with Vatican City, religion classes hold the same legal status as mandatory subjects, which means they have to be part of the regular daily schedule.

Look, as someone who actually practices their faith and hangs out in religious circles, I have never—and I mean *never*—heard anyone talking trash about people... not from adults, not even from kids.
So, if there are people out there being hateful, they definitely aren't actual believers; they're just "believers" on paper.

Rachel Gray24 said:Look, I don't really know where other religions are proselytizing since I'm not religious myself.☕
As far as I can tell, public schools here pretty much just offer Catholic studies; you don't see the other options being taught in the classroom.☕

I honestly don't get why you believers are so worked up about removing religious education from the school curriculum. Why can't your kids just head over to church for those lessons instead?

Because I can't see one single reason why religious education shouldn't be part of the school day...
It's simple: if you don't want your kid in it, don't sign them up. Period.

shadowcrane91 said:Look, as someone who actually practices their faith and hangs out in religious circles, I have never—and I mean *never*—heard anyone talking trash about people... not from adults, not even from kids.
So, if there are people out there being hateful, they definitely aren't actual believers; they're just "believers" on paper.

Claiming that America is a Catholic nation and that minorities must bow down to the majority is nothing less than an insult to everyone who isn't Catholic.
It’s a direct slap in the face to me, as an atheist.

No. No, I don't want to "adapt" to you.
God doesn't exist, Jesus was never real, evolution is a fact, and humans and primates share common ancestors.

Get lost. I refuse to conform to your fairy tales just because you happen to be the majority on some arbitrary list.

I mean, seriously? Adam and Eve were the first humans and had sons named Cain and Abel. Then Cain kills Abel and wanders off to find a wife.
Who the hell did he marry???
I refuse to buy into such idiocy, no matter how large your majority might be.

shadowcrane91 said:Because I can't see one single reason why religious education shouldn't be part of the school day...
It's simple: if you don't want your kid in it, don't sign them up. Period.

So, go ahead and try to convince me why religious education belongs in public schools—because honestly, I can't see any reason for it at all.
First you have First Communion—so you need the classes—then there's Confirmation—more classes—then you get married—and suddenly there's more training or whatever—so why on earth would we need twelve years of religious ed in school???

shadowcrane91 said:Look, as someone who actually practices their faith and hangs out in religious circles, I have never—and I mean *never*—heard anyone talking trash about people... not from adults, not even from kids.
So, if there are people out there being hateful, they definitely aren't actual believers; they're just "believers" on paper.

What’s your take on this?

So, here’s the deal on why believers don't just go around spitting on people.

Matthew Young35 said:Claiming that America is a Catholic nation and that minorities must bow down to the majority is nothing less than an insult to everyone who isn't Catholic.
It’s a direct slap in the face to me, as an atheist.

No. No, I don't want to "adapt" to you.
God doesn't exist, Jesus was never real, evolution is a fact, and humans and primates share common ancestors.

Get lost. I refuse to conform to your fairy tales just because you happen to be the majority on some arbitrary list.

I mean, seriously? Adam and Eve were the first humans and had sons named Cain and Abel. Then Cain kills Abel and wanders off to find a wife.
Who the hell did he marry???
I refuse to buy into such idiocy, no matter how large your majority might be.

I'm in! Count me in!

Nancy Martin93 said:So, go ahead and try to convince me why religious education belongs in public schools—because honestly, I can't see any reason for it at all.
First you have First Communion—so you need the classes—then there's Confirmation—more classes—then you get married—and suddenly there's more training or whatever—so why on earth would we need twelve years of religious ed in school???

Let's be real, kids aren't even paying attention to religion class anyway. They're out there burning through life like crazy before they even hit puberty. By the time they're twelve, they’re already smoking, drinking, and hitting the drugs. It's a mess.

Larry Walker24 said:What’s your take on this?

So, here’s the deal on why believers don't just go around spitting on people.

I'm in! Count me in!

Let's be real, kids aren't even paying attention to religion class anyway. They're out there burning through life like crazy before they even hit puberty. By the time they're twelve, they’re already smoking, drinking, and hitting the drugs. It's a mess.

Okay.... I haven't met anyone like that and I don't know them personally... so what?

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shadowcrane91 said:Okay.... I haven't met anyone like that and I don't know them personally... so what?

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Look, just because you don't know that Bishop personally doesn't mean his claim about "real believers" not spitting is true. It's just wrong.

And since when did sermons turn into political rallies anyway?

Nancy Martin93 said:So, go ahead and try to convince me why religious education belongs in public schools—because honestly, I can't see any reason for it at all.
First you have First Communion—so you need the classes—then there's Confirmation—more classes—then you get married—and suddenly there's more training or whatever—so why on earth would we need twelve years of religious ed in school???

Well, in my opinion, going to a few church classes a couple of times in your life isn't nearly enough to actually learn your own faith...
If you really think that's sufficient—hey, good for you!

What, because a kid might pick up something wrong during those twelve years, we just scrap the whole subject??? Give me a break.

Matthew Young35 said:Claiming that America is a Catholic nation and that minorities must bow down to the majority is nothing less than an insult to everyone who isn't Catholic.
It’s a direct slap in the face to me, as an atheist.

No. No, I don't want to "adapt" to you.
God doesn't exist, Jesus was never real, evolution is a fact, and humans and primates share common ancestors.

Get lost. I refuse to conform to your fairy tales just because you happen to be the majority on some arbitrary list.

I mean, seriously? Adam and Eve were the first humans and had sons named Cain and Abel. Then Cain kills Abel and wanders off to find a wife.
Who the hell did he marry???
I refuse to buy into such idiocy, no matter how large your majority might be.

Not really, but I also don't see a single damn good reason why we should scrap religious education in schools just to accommodate a minority...

If someone doesn't like it, they won't enroll their kid, and boom—problem solved.

The same goes for me; if I were living somewhere else where a different religion was dominant, I'd definitely be demanding they cater to us instead of forcing us to conform to them...
What a joke.

Nancy Martin93 said:True, though—I haven't personally run into a single school yet, whether elementary or high school, that actually offers any kind of alternative to standard religious studies.

I’m honestly lost here—what kind of religious alternative are you even talking about?
If you're aiming at Islamic or Orthodox studies, then your "lack of experience" with them isn't some grand conspiracy about forcing one faith on everyone; it’s pretty obviously just because the students and parents in those schools aren't interested in picking those types of electives in the first place...

Larry Walker24 said:Look, just because you don't know that Bishop personally doesn't mean his claim about "real believers" not spitting is true. It's just wrong.

And since when did sermons turn into political rallies anyway?

I don't know—honestly, I've only ever dealt with totally normal priests, so I haven't really run into anyone like that before. 🤷
It’s a lose-lose situation, honestly...

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Nancy Martin93 said:True, though—I haven't personally run into a single school yet, whether elementary or high school, that actually offers any kind of alternative to standard religious studies.

In high school, you get the choice between religion class or ethics. 😏
Who wants in? You get to pick. (At least, that’s how it worked back when I was in school.)

I honestly have no clue if they’re still doing those ethics labels.

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Rachel Gray24 said:Look, I don't really know where other religions are proselytizing since I'm not religious myself.☕
As far as I can tell, public schools here pretty much just offer Catholic studies; you don't see the other options being taught in the classroom.☕

I honestly don't get why you believers are so worked up about removing religious education from the school curriculum. Why can't your kids just head over to church for those lessons instead?

Why does it bother you "non-believers" so much that religious education is even an option in schools when your kid isn't even attending the classes anyway???
Look, it’s pretty simple. You live in a country where Catholicism is the backbone of society, so they offer you Catholic religion classes—even if they aren't mandatory. If you were living somewhere else where a different faith held the reins, you'd be getting taught that instead. It’s just how things work.
What's the damn problem?

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manchild QuoteBlock said:Honestly, kids aren't even paying attention to religion class because they're already out there living like animals. By the time they hit 12, they’re already hitting the booze, smoking, and experimenting with drugs. It’s a mess.

Religious studies shouldn't be trying to fix how kids are raised at home.

shadowcrane91 said:Look, as someone who actually practices their faith and hangs out in religious circles, I have never—and I mean *never*—heard anyone talking trash about people... not from adults, not even from kids.
So, if there are people out there being hateful, they definitely aren't actual believers; they're just "believers" on paper.

You really should take another look at your own posts. 😉

shadowcrane91 said:Well, in my opinion, going to a few church classes a couple of times in your life isn't nearly enough to actually learn your own faith...
If you really think that's sufficient—hey, good for you!

What, because a kid might pick up something wrong during those twelve years, we just scrap the whole subject??? Give me a break.

No one is suggesting a kid should go to Sunday school just three times; the idea is to have them attend two hours a week at the parish instead of the two hours currently spent on religious ed in public school.
Just like parents drive their kids to soccer practice, swimming, or language classes, if they are truly practicing believers, they could easily arrange for their children to attend religious instruction. It shouldn't be a burden if they genuinely care about passing down values they themselves struggle to teach.

Personally, I want my daughter to learn another language, and I don't find it hard to drive her there in the afternoons, even though I'd much prefer it were part of the school day.
It's also important to me that she plays a sport she loves and has talent for. I don't expect the school to add it to the official schedule or ask the Department of Education to fund it out of a tight budget, even though I'm sure plenty of kids would be interested, and it would be great for their mental health in the short and long term.

And no, I won't be enrolling my child in religious ed, because I simply don't need to. It's an elective, and as a parent, I don't particularly care for the curriculum.
I'm not exactly thrilled that someone is essentially babysitting my child for free during those hours. Nor am I happy having my child left to wander the halls alone.
And I certainly don't want my child stuck in a religious class just because there's nowhere else for them to go.

If it happens to be the first period, we'll both be happy because we get to sleep in a little longer.
But if it's mid-day or the last period (which is way more likely since not every grade can have first period), I really hope the school finds a productive way for them to spend that time—maybe learning a skill that I can't teach them myself.

During those two sessions a week, she won't have to lug that heavy backpack for three blocks, which is a win for her back. Plus, I'll save money by not needing to buy two extra book covers and two less sketchbooks, which is a win for my wallet.
On top of that, the city government that funds textbooks will end up saving a little bit on my kid, $20 so maybe that's enough to build another fountain in a local park.

shadowcrane91 said:Not really, but I also don't see a single damn good reason why we should scrap religious education in schools just to accommodate a minority...

If someone doesn't like it, they won't enroll their kid, and boom—problem solved.

The same goes for me; if I were living somewhere else where a different religion was dominant, I'd definitely be demanding they cater to us instead of forcing us to conform to them...
What a joke.

My ass is "solved" by not enrolling kids in religious classes.
In many, many cases, that is exactly when the trouble starts.
Where is the child supposed to go during those hours? Who is watching them?
The kid ends up isolated and stigmatized by their peers.

I am not asking you to conform to me. I couldn't care less what you believe. As far as I'm concerned, you can believe in fairies for all I care—it’s no different than believing in angels, Svetovid, Fury, or Shiva. Honestly, I don't give a damn.
That is, until it bleeds into official state institutions that are mandatory for everyone, including me and my child.
Ultimately, why should my child be legally required to attend a school where the Church has a hand in things? They don't have to take the religion class, sure, but the clergy are present in the teachers' lounge through those instructors; they participate in the very decision-making processes of the school.

In the end, it boils down to this: you are the majority, so you do whatever you want. And if you are the minority? Well, screw you—either adapt or get screwed one way or another.
I'm done with a state like that. We might as well just declare a Catholic version of ISIS and call it a day; everyone will be happy (except, of course, for those who don't believe in the nonsense written in the Bible).

Susan James said:You really should take another look at your own posts. 😉

No one is suggesting a kid should go to Sunday school just three times; the idea is to have them attend two hours a week at the parish instead of the two hours currently spent on religious ed in public school.
Just like parents drive their kids to soccer practice, swimming, or language classes, if they are truly practicing believers, they could easily arrange for their children to attend religious instruction. It shouldn't be a burden if they genuinely care about passing down values they themselves struggle to teach.

Personally, I want my daughter to learn another language, and I don't find it hard to drive her there in the afternoons, even though I'd much prefer it were part of the school day.
It's also important to me that she plays a sport she loves and has talent for. I don't expect the school to add it to the official schedule or ask the Department of Education to fund it out of a tight budget, even though I'm sure plenty of kids would be interested, and it would be great for their mental health in the short and long term.

And no, I won't be enrolling my child in religious ed, because I simply don't need to. It's an elective, and as a parent, I don't particularly care for the curriculum.
I'm not exactly thrilled that someone is essentially babysitting my child for free during those hours. Nor am I happy having my child left to wander the halls alone.
And I certainly don't want my child stuck in a religious class just because there's nowhere else for them to go.

If it happens to be the first period, we'll both be happy because we get to sleep in a little longer.
But if it's mid-day or the last period (which is way more likely since not every grade can have first period), I really hope the school finds a productive way for them to spend that time—maybe learning a skill that I can't teach them myself.

During those two sessions a week, she won't have to lug that heavy backpack for three blocks, which is a win for her back. Plus, I'll save money by not needing to buy two extra book covers and two less sketchbooks, which is a win for my wallet.
On top of that, the city government that funds textbooks will end up saving a little bit on my kid, $20 so maybe that's enough to build another fountain in a local park.

I don't know what the deal is with my posts, other than the fact that you clearly hate my opinion.
Foreign languages, drama, and other extracurriculars are also offered at school (at least in mine—my kids start tomorrow)—so you don't actually *have* to drive them anywhere (unless your specific school doesn't offer that stuff)....

The real issue here isn't religious ed itself; it's the total lack of organization within the school system.

But nope... people love blaming the religious classes....

Personally, I’m actually glad it’s offered at school....

The man literally listed three different times you're supposed to show up for religious ed...
Everything else is just too much effort for him.

Matthew Young35 said:My ass is "solved" by not enrolling kids in religious classes.
In many, many cases, that is exactly when the trouble starts.
Where is the child supposed to go during those hours? Who is watching them?
The kid ends up isolated and stigmatized by their peers.

I am not asking you to conform to me. I couldn't care less what you believe. As far as I'm concerned, you can believe in fairies for all I care—it’s no different than believing in angels, Svetovid, Fury, or Shiva. Honestly, I don't give a damn.
That is, until it bleeds into official state institutions that are mandatory for everyone, including me and my child.
Ultimately, why should my child be legally required to attend a school where the Church has a hand in things? They don't have to take the religion class, sure, but the clergy are present in the teachers' lounge through those instructors; they participate in the very decision-making processes of the school.

In the end, it boils down to this: you are the majority, so you do whatever you want. And if you are the minority? Well, screw you—either adapt or get screwed one way or another.
I'm done with a state like that. We might as well just declare a Catholic version of ISIS and call it a day; everyone will be happy (except, of course, for those who don't believe in the nonsense written in the Bible).

And why is religious education being blamed for this now?
No matter what country you travel to, things are going to work the way the majority wants them to...

Or am I wrong?

I mean, maybe there's some random country out there where the majority actually thinks like you...
But damn... not here.